Does the "consequences statement" of a full perm item, affect your buying decision?

[MeshPromo]

Imagine you are going to buy a full perm item and then you have found different two products A and B from two merchants.

Both products are similar in price, look, information, quality etc so choosing one is a tough choice.

But the product B has the following consequences statement after the full perm terms.

"Violating the above terms will be resulted DMCA / reporting to Linden Lab, as well as real life legal consequences. "

That means both sellers will do that for those who violate the full perm terms, but only product B has been mentioned that.

So will that statement cause you to choose product A?

This might be different person to person, so I would glad to see your answer too.

 

[Ethan Paslong]

the only thing for me that will have any influence on the buying proces will be what the creator has in store, not only items, but also attitude/support, if known.

[Tari Landar]

As someone that regularly purchases full perm items, that kind of "rule" is pretty normal for many of them. It is, in fact, not that particular line that is a problem, it's the rules that come before it. That line, which could be stated any number of ways, refers to whatever terms exist before it. Even if not stated, it is a given that whatever terms a creator/seller has, should not be broken, and if they are, you run the risk of potential trouble with both LL and possibly rl courts(however rare that may be, the potential exists). That particular line, regardless of how it is worded, is not a deterrent for most people, it certainly isn't for me. But, the terms that come before it, very well may be.

For example(s) :

Price regulations-I'm not fond of anyone telling me what I can price things at, if you do, I don't buy from you. I don't judge you, I simply don't buy.

Determining how much I must change the item-This one isn't as common, but I have seen listings that say "simply adding a texture is not enough, you must do MORE than that" and similar wording. To this I say, pfffft, no sale, even though I don't simply slap a texture on things and sell them that way, I still think it's a stupid rule, as some folks truly are magicians with textures (I'm not one of them, but still, they exist)

Cannot be included in gifts-This one probably doesn't bug a lot of other people, but it bugs me, just enough to keep me from purchasing. I like both making and giving gifts to people. I often make things for charity events, and I always include a gift for the charity to hand out to guests, donors, event participants etc... So this is an automatic no go for me. I get it, I just don't agree with it.

When "allowed permissions" are super strict. By this I don't mean them saying "you can only sell copy/mod, or mod/transfer", that I get, and it makes sense. They don't want you handing things out full perm, or so that both you and whoever you give it to can have copies-totally makes sense. But if you tell me I can ONLY sell it "mod/trans", or ONLY sell it "copy/mod" instead of either or-which I've actually run into, I'm not buying. Some of my items need to be copy, some need to be trans, I need to have the freedom to determine which fits better for the end user. 

I think that's it, lol. So, no, that line isn't going to be a deterrent for me, but the terms that come before it, very well may. Although this topic seems better suited for the merchant forum than the general discussion one, I believe. Don't be surprised if it gets moved there  

[Fionalein]

It is not that line it is the tone of that line that makes me consider not buying. I consider it silly anyways - you do not have to threaten first to file a DMCA case. If the tone of that declaration sounds superagressive to me I skip the shop.

Most template repainters involuntarily break the seller TOS by the way, I have yet to come across one fullperm seller that makes an exception for demo versions in that "cannot be given away for free" rule (and that is why I never started with template repaints myself).

Edited March 1, 2019 by Fionalein

[Selene Gregoire]

2 hours ago, MeshPromo said:

Imagine you are going to buy a full perm item and then you have found different two products A and B from two merchants.

Both products are similar in price, look, information, quality etc so choosing one is a tough choice.

But the product B has the following consequences statement after the full perm terms.

"Violating the above terms will be resulted DMCA / reporting to Linden Lab, as well as real life legal consequences. "

That means both sellers will do that for those who violate the full perm terms, but only product B has been mentioned that.

So will that statement cause you to choose product A?

This might be different person to person, so I would glad to see your answer too.

 

I don't buy from people who threaten me with a lawsuit before I've even done anything.

[Candice LittleBoots]

Any advertisement which spends more characters stating policy than it does describing the item it is there to sell is a pass for me. Often times the seller comes across as a pain, even if they've been messed with in the past. It's like having Picks in your Profile listing all a person's likes/dislikes and do's and don'ts .. Drama waiting to happen.

In terms of full-perm items; I buy occasionally, never sell, but all my alts get a copy too so the cost is divided by a healthy number.

[MeshPromo]

Thanks for the answers. Is there any suggestion to write the following sentence more friendly/polite way, without feel threatening to the good customers, but only for bad people?

"Violating the above terms will be resulted DMCA / reporting to Linden Lab, as well as real life legal consequences. "

[Wulfie Reanimator]

8 minutes ago, MeshPromo said:

Thanks for the answers. Is there any suggestion to write the following sentence more friendly/polite way, without feel threatening to the good customers, but only for bad people?

"Violating the above terms will be resulted DMCA / reporting to Linden Lab, as well as real life legal consequences. "

Don't write it at all.

There's no benefit from having that on your product page. If you're within your rights to DMCA something, you don't have to ask/warn first. You're also not going to realistically sue anyone IRL because they probably 1) don't live in the US and 2) don't have enough money to pay for your legal fees, let alone any "penalties."

If you want to make it clear somehow that there are limits to what's allowed, list those limits and leave it at that.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Wulfie Reanimator

[So Whimsy]

2 hours ago, Candice LittleBoots said:

Any advertisement which spends more characters stating policy than it does describing the item it is there to sell is a pass for me.

Doesn't that apply more often than not? Every full perm creator should put their policy onto the product page so the buyer can read it and make an educated choice of purchasing the product or not. The policy needs to be right front and center, no customer should have to hunt it down by logging in in world and checking picks, after all, by buying the product they are agreeing to it. If there is no policy upon purchase then they did not agree to it, thus do not have to follow it. Also policies need to be as thorough as possible to protect ones work if push comes to shove so a decent policy is more than three bullet points with a few words behind them.

I make animations, I state the name, the priority, whether its looped and the length. So every single listing has a longer policy than description about the product. What do you want me to do? Wax poetics about the beautiful shade the sunflowers are that you can water with my watering plants animation?

[Shudo]

Your terms, as I see them are:

Quote

 

You are allowed to: 
1. Use for your personal usage within Second life. 
2. Use as a container to sell your products within second life. (Permission must be set as "no transfer" or "no copy") 
3. Use as a container to give your product DEMO s. (Permission must be set as "no transfer" or "no copy") 
4. Use as a container to give your gifts. (Permission must be set as "no transfer" or "no copy")

Terms: 
1. You are NOT allowed to use this anywhere else rather than Second Life with exception of the Second Life Marketplace.. 
2. You are NOT allowed to sell this as it is or by just changing its textures. You MUST include your own product and this can only be used as a container / package box for selling. 
3. You are NOT allowed to include this for your sales with both copy and transfer permissions. 
4. You are NOT allowed to include the Shadow Map or UV map of this box, as a separate texture for your sales item.

This is my original creation and I have its copyright. Violating the above terms will be resulted DMCA / reporting to Linden Lab, as well as legal consequences.

 

The last statement doesn't bother me as much as the messy double list of what I can and can't do.

Have you thought of simplifying the first section a little?

Quote

 

This is my own copyrighted and original creation made with love, skill, and care, I really hope you enjoy this art and find it a perfect compliment complement to your own. I do ask that you please respect my hard work by following the user license given with your purchase:

This item is meant for your own personal use, or to use as a box with your own products, demos, and gifts inside.

This item can only be distributed given to others as packaging for your own creations and must never be sold on it's own, even if you retexture it. It may not be given to others distributed full-perm. To save mistakes please set the permissions to either NoCopy/Transfer or Copy/NoTransfer as soon as possible. 

This item is only for use inside SecondLife and it's Marketplace and must not be exported to other grids and applications. The included textures and AO maps are for your use only and must never be redistributed.

I don't think the threats are needed. People buying full-perm will know artists use DMCA/ARs

Edited March 1, 2019 by Shudo
Added and changed various words to make it read better.

[Tari Landar]

1 hour ago, MeshPromo said:

Thanks for the answers. Is there any suggestion to write the following sentence more friendly/polite way, without feel threatening to the good customers, but only for bad people?

"Violating the above terms will be resulted DMCA / reporting to Linden Lab, as well as real life legal consequences. "

In rl, you are well aware that breaking laws come with potential consequences. Even if you break a law and never face those consequences, the potential for such-including legal trouble, is a given. You don't need someone, for example, to sit there and verbally tell you every single time you get into your car that certain acts committed while driving, are illegal and come with potential consequences. You don't need a note in your vehicle spelling it out either...you are simply expected to know. The very same thing applies here, in that the potential for any consequence is going to exist should someone choose to not obey whatever guidelines they are given by the creator. So the threat isn't really necessary. It may not bother me in the same way it bothers others, but I can still find it rather unnecessary without being truly bothered by it.  

And yes, I know, this is sl, it's not rl..doesn't change the facts, jack. 

[Shudo]

9 minutes ago, Tari Landar said:

You don't need someone, for example, to sit there and verbally tell you every single time you get into your car that certain acts committed while driving, are illegal and come with potential consequences. You don't need a note in your vehicle spelling it out either...you are simply expected to know.

Can't help it Tari  Western Australia has a real weird car related law most people in the state don't know.

It’s illegal to have more than 50kg ( 110lb ) of potatoes in your vehicle in Western Australia

Thanks to a weird 1946 law Western Australia’s powerful spud regular, the Potato Marketing Corporation, still has the power to stop and search any vehicle suspected of carrying more than 50kg of potatoes.

Edited March 1, 2019 by Shudo

[Tari Landar]

1 minute ago, Shudo said:

Can't help it Tari  Western Australia has a real weird car related law most people in the state don't know.

It’s illegal to have more than 50kg ( 110lb ) of potatoes in your vehicle in Western Australia

Western Australia’s powerful spud regular, the Potato Marketing Corporation — which is the last of its kind in Australia — has the power to stop and search any vehicle suspected of carrying more than 50kg of potatoes. It’s enshrined in a law from 1946.

Oh we have our fair share of outdated, antiquated and hilariously odd laws too, lol. Though many of them are never enforced today, should one find his/her self on the wrong side of someone wishing to enforce it..judicial systems will still say "ignorance of the law is no excuse", most of the time. Though, I doubt anyone would find themselves on the wrong side of most antiquated and hilarious laws we still have on the books from days long gone by. 

These are just some from my own state, lol..

1. Women are prohibited from wearing patent leather shoes in public.
2. It is illegal to fish for whales on Sunday. (we have a lake, not an ocean, btw, last I checked..no whales in any of the great lakes)
3. It is illegal to get a fish drunk.
4. The (state) driver’s education manual states that you must honk the horn whenever you pass another car. (not typically enforced, but can be, and has been)
5. It is illegal for more than five woman to live in a house.
6. Posting signs at swimming pools is illegal in (specific city).
7. It is also illegal in (same city) to display colored chickens for sale.
8. It is illegal to walk a cow down Lake Road in (a different specific city).
9. The installation and usage of slot machines in outhouses is prohibited in (yet another city).
10. If someone loses their pet tiger, they must notify the authorities within one hour.

That last one is particularly hilarious, while also not being so, and actually still enforced in my state, because there are people that own them (or have owned them, and had them escape too).

[Candice LittleBoots]

1 hour ago, Syn Anatine said:

bla bla bla ..
I make animations, I state the name, the priority, whether its looped and the length.
.. bla bla bla

The most critical elements when considering the purchase of an animation. Faultless.

[So Whimsy]

1 hour ago, Tari Landar said:

In rl, you are well aware that breaking laws come with potential consequences. Even if you break a law and never face those consequences, the potential for such-including legal trouble, is a given. You don't need someone, for example, to sit there and verbally tell you every single time you get into your car that certain acts committed while driving, are illegal and come with potential consequences. You don't need a note in your vehicle spelling it out either...you are simply expected to know. The very same thing applies here, in that the potential for any consequence is going to exist should someone choose to not obey whatever guidelines they are given by the creator. So the threat isn't really necessary. It may not bother me in the same way it bothers others, but I can still find it rather unnecessary without being truly bothered by it.  

And yes, I know, this is sl, it's not rl..doesn't change the facts, jack. 

Apparently a large amount of SL users still operate under "It's on the internet where nobody knows where I live so I can rip content, break TOS, scam people and whathaveyou without having to face consquences." I feel it's *very* needed people are shown the consequences should they decide to go against an agreement, because more often than not SL is treated like a game and the thought of actual consquences is a fleeting one at best.

[Qie Niangao]

8 hours ago, MeshPromo said:

"Violating the above terms will be resulted DMCA / reporting to Linden Lab, as well as real life legal consequences. "

This isn't actually English.

Also, personally, I'd really avoid specifying contractual terms that weren't written by a lawyer. Not necessarily my lawyer, but somebody with a professional interest in stating terms that can't end up being used against me.

[Selene Gregoire]

7 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

by buying the product they are agreeing to it. If there is no policy upon purchase then they did not agree to it, 

The way that really works is you are agreeing to something you know nothing about because the agreement is on a notecard included with the product. You don't get it before making the purchase.

Do you (general) always sign legally binding contracts without reading them? No? So why should this be any different? Legally, it isn't.

[Bree Giffen]

It doesn't really matter much to me. I just use those things for personal use. My eyes just glaze over when it comes to legalese. I suppose if I did buy a full perm item to resell I'd pay more attention. Personally, I've always felt that if you sell a full perm product to more than one person you will lose complete control of it.

[Tari Landar]

7 hours ago, Syn Anatine said:

Apparently a large amount of SL users still operate under "It's on the internet where nobody knows where I live so I can rip content, break TOS, scam people and whathaveyou without having to face consquences." I feel it's *very* needed people are shown the consequences should they decide to go against an agreement, because more often than not SL is treated like a game and the thought of actual consquences is a fleeting one at best.

The fact that people fail to follow rules, or believe anonymity on the internet can protect them in some fashion, doesn't, in any way, negate the fact that they very well know rules exist. It also doesn't negate the fact that they know there are potential consequences. Again, it can be likened to rl law breaking. Not everyone listens to, or follows, rl laws too but we still know they, and potential consequences, exist. 

You're giving idiots that enjoy not following rules way too much credit, lol. The thought is not always fleeting, in the least, some people simply don't care, period. We can agree all we want on every other point, and that they should care, but that too doesn't change the very real fact that they likely never will (until they find themselves on the other side of the consequences, even then, it's not always the best deterrent either). So, yes, it's an unnecessary threat that may seem proactively hostile for no real good reason to some-which you can see by the answers here. To me, it's simply unnecessary text, not bothersome, just unnecessary. It seems, from reading other responses, it very well may be a sale prevention method more than a rule breaking hindrance, at least for some merchants anyway. If that line, alone, can cause people to think more than twice about purchasing from you, it's quite likely to be unnecessary, if not worse (and according to some answers, it's obviously worse than that, even if I may not share their sentiment).