Callum Meriman Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: I think this change of direction will be temporary. Gerrymandering can't hold back changing demographics forever and economic tailwinds eventually die down. It may get worse before it gets better, but I do think it'll get better. Things might get quite a bit harder for huge slabs of the US economy if the tradewars the cheetos-in-chief's already started ramp up too more more. Edited September 16, 2018 by Callum Meriman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Rya Nitely said: More soft blankets is what the world needs, and society is becoming more aware of this. Because mental health problems are on the rise, or perhaps it's always been there, unacknowledged. I've often wondered if there are more "sensitive" people because we got into the mode of never offending anyone and never letting our children experience any hurtful emotions in school, thus nobody can even handle people disagreeing with them any more. How much of this have we created ourselves by not allowing our children to learn how to deal with their negative emotions rather than trying to protect them from the emotions all the time or trying to fix it for them? 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Rya Nitely said: my workplace has transformed from bitchy spiteful individuals to respectful caring people. They need to be polite and respectful (whether they want to or not). Respect is a strong policy, and mandatory - people follow it. The environment has changed significantly, simply through education and awareness. 4 hours ago, Rya Nitely said: That not true. Since they started the respect and RUOK awareness programs at my work, the environment has changed. It's made it possible for me to go work again, and feel safe, without daily threats. It's working. I must say that I am truly sorry that your workplace was that horrid. While I have worked at more than a dozen places in my life, I have never experienced any place where all, or even most, of the people were truly horrid. Yes, there are always one or a few folks that are not great to work with, but that has simply helped me to develop my people skills. While you can say that 'respect' is a policy and mandatory, you should be aware that you really can never force someone to respect others. You can force them to be kind, force them to not say certain things and to act a certain way, but you cannot actually force "respect". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 37 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: I hope that's the case. It's the supreme court turning so conservative that has me thinking it will go on a long while though.. I did say it might get worse before it gets better. Progress in politics is even messier than in science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 36 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: I've often wondered if there are more "sensitive" people because we got into the mode of never offending anyone and never letting our children experience any hurtful emotions in school, thus nobody can even handle people disagreeing with them any more. How much of this have we created ourselves by not allowing our children to learn how to deal with their negative emotions rather than trying to protect them from the emotions all the time or trying to fix it for them? I agree with part of what you said -- that parents are responsible in teaching children how to deal with emotions. However, I don't think (usually) it's a case of overprotection (protecting them from the emotions or trying to fix it for them). Rather, it's that teaching children how to deal with the pain of life is an incredibly difficult task that requires the parent to be congnizant of which stage the child is at (do they need support/comfort, or do they need to be toughened up a bit by firm limits and gentle encouragement to face the situation at hand, or do they need a combination of both). If the parent isn't able to sense what the child needs and respond appropriately then the child develops the habit of feeling overwhelmed and has trouble dealing with stressful situations. They don't know how to soothe themselves and instead tend to develop defenses to get away from a painful issue in any way they can - they tend to act out in destructive ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: I hope that's the case. It's the supreme court turning so conservative that has me thinking it will go on a long while though.. I did say it might get worse before it gets better. Progress in politics is even messier than in science. But then will it then get worse again...:) Are we on a march to 'progress heaven'? Or is reality cyclical and we are going nowhere? Please reply in 3 paragraphs or less ;0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 39 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: I've often wondered if there are more "sensitive" people because we got into the mode of never offending anyone and never letting our children experience any hurtful emotions in school, thus nobody can even handle people disagreeing with them any more. This is what you believe...but is it true? I'm not sure, but I tend to think everything is just more visible now with the internet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Just now, Luna Bliss said: But then will it then get worse again...:) Are we on a march to 'progress heaven'? Or is reality cyclical and we are going nowhere? Please reply in 3 paragraphs or less ;0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 23 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: I've often wondered if there are more "sensitive" people because we got into the mode of never offending anyone and never letting our children experience any hurtful emotions in school, thus nobody can even handle people disagreeing with them any more. How much of this have we created ourselves by not allowing our children to learn how to deal with their negative emotions rather than trying to protect them from the emotions all the time or trying to fix it for them? I remember Dad musing over his generation's (born in 1920) disdain for overly sensitive hippies while he started to let his white hair grow into a ponytail. I hope I live long enough for the snowflake generation to complain about their overly sensitive grandkids, and that I find that as amusing as he did. I do not, however, expect to grow a ponytail. Been there, done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said: All societies have collapsed though...what makes our society different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: All societies have collapsed though...what makes our society different? Ours might not be different. Although the British Empire collapsed, the average Brit has a better life now than during the heyday of the Empire. That said, they may be looking at regression in the near term as they work their way through Brexit. ETA: If the next 100 years of amazing scientific progress is driven by countries other than the US, we'll still benefit. We may have to deal with the heartache of having lost the lead, but we're still in the (human) race. Edited September 16, 2018 by Madelaine McMasters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Well Madelaine, as much as I love VR and Terence McKenna I may just want to be a hunter-gatherer ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said: may just want to be a hunter-gatherer ... ..as in, Shopping? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luna Bliss Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: 1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said: may just want to be a hunter-gatherer ... ..as in, Shopping? lol yes,Love, that's totally what I meant. And I just hunted and gathered some vegan egg-rolls from my freezer... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Madelaine McMasters said: Although the British Empire collapsed, the average Brit has a better life now than during the heyday of the Empire. That said, they may be looking at regression in the near term as they work their way through Brexit. Speaking as a Briton I can tell you my country is now back to the days of the Victorians in terms of the wealth gap, but without their sense of patronage or even decency. Did you know that among disabled people suicide attempts have gone from 21% to 43% in 7 years? Our position has sod all to do with Brexit and a great deal to do with the sociopaths running our country - the Tories now and New Labour, who introduced a new form of claiming process for the incapacitated. Much more is wrong with our country - 2 million people using foodbanks is one more example. Regression in the near term? We're already there! p.s. I really don't want to argue about politics here but I had to reply to what you said. Edited September 16, 2018 by Garnet Psaltery Typo 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: Did you know that among disabled people suicide attempts have gone from 21% to 43% in 7 years? It would be horrible if your country reaches the suicide culture levels of the Japanese. Fact: most suicides in the US are not reported in the news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garnet Psaltery Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said: It would be horrible if your country reaches the suicide culture levels of the Japanese. Fact: most suicides in the US are not reported in the news. I'd hate to think your point is that what I said about suicide levels among the disabled in Britain is meaningless because you can mention places where it's worse. What is your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Even when I'm nice to people, sometimes people get offended. Now replace I'm with your own self...and odds are damn good, it's just as true, more often than any of us are willing to admit. Yes, we need to be more aware of others' struggles and that sometimes, things just aren't going to be accepted well, no matter what. That doesn't actually automatically make what's being said offensive, or mean that the person saying it needs to change their approach. Awareness isn't about adapting everyone else, except the one being offended, in all cases. It's about adapting EVERYONE, including the person that is claiming offense. It's just as easy to unintentionally offend someone as it is to intentionally do so. It's also just as easy to BE offended when no offense was even there to begin with. While I'm not really much of a fan of the whole "kid gloves" type comments, the fact remains that not everyone who is sensitive, not everyone that gets offended easily, not everyone dealing with mental illness (even simply a temporary episode of such) NEEDS to be handled with kid gloves, let alone wants to be. Actually, a lot of them don't even really want it, even if they might think they do at a given time. Sometimes that tough love, that unintentional "offense" is necessary, and not a necessary evil, just necessary. I'm legally blind, everyone here knows this, everyone knows I struggle with it, I talk about it all the time. Do you know how often it negatively affects how people actually treat me, what they expect of me, what I'm allowed/able to do, what people think of me....I could complain for years. Sometimes, I do complain, because it's annoying as hell sometimes, and my limitations are far more massive than even I can convey, so it can be annoying to have people point them out or say something that I KNOW I should be able to do/see/whatever, but they, clearly, don't understand why I can't. I COULD whine and moan that the world isn't adapting to me, and that I have to adapt to everything(and again, sometimes I do whine about that. But, it's rather pointless for me to get so offended by these things all the time (even though I do this, like anyone else, at times, I can still recognize this) when there is literally nothing I can do to change it. I apply the same sort of thing to all other aspects of myself that I cannot change (and like many others, there are plenty of negative things I am afflicted with) which may, at times, negatively affect how people view and/or treat me. Would it be nice for someone to hold my hand 24/7, wrap me in soft fleece, fix all my problems and ensure no one ever offends me, tell me I'm always right? NO, it would not be nice. It only sounds nice on paper. In reality, I need the struggles, I need to feel offended, I need to feel "bullied"(not physically, and not always in the literal sense at all), I need to be wrong, I need to be told "are you stupid, or just blind"(and at that very moment, I'm probably both), I need to be told I'm acting like a baby/that I'm whining/that I'm offended for no reason, I need all those negative aspects-no matter how they might make me feel in that very moment. Why do I need them? Because I need to remind myself I'm not special, there are millions, just like me, I need to keep my own defensive nature in check and realize that not ALL of those things are actually done negatively, I might just view them that way because I'm having a tough day/time. I need to remind myself that for every negative interaction I have, I've probably had tens, if not hundreds, of positive ones-and I need to appreciate them-and if ever I feel otherwise it very well may not be them, it might be me. I need to remind myself of how *I* treat others, and how I want to be treated. I also need to remind myself that this world needs positive and negative to function, no matter what. How I respond to both positive, and negative, is just as important as how everyone else does. Hell I get flack for having long posts , eh hem, lol , and I can either choose to be offended that I'm told I talk too much, or laugh at the person struggling with a response that has more than a few sentence. I learned years ago to opt for the latter I also got told, years ago, that I was being offensive in doing that because the person that had complained had made prior claims of struggles with reading/comprehension. My response to that was "I'm sorry I offended you, but it's still not my problem. I highly recommend you move past my posts"....and again, was told that's offensive. It's still true, it's still not my problem, and there's still nothing I can do about it. So, that person can just continue being offended, and I'll continue to believe they were being defensive and finding offense where none existed, lol. That's rather minor, in some opinions, compared to dealing with someone who is struggling with mental health issues who may or may not get easily offended, but is it really? It's still a struggle that person was going through, it's still a person being offended by me(without intent) and it's still ME being asked to accommodate that struggle, rather than the person with the struggle learning how to accommodate his/her own self. It's much easier (though it doesn't seem so) and reasonable for US as individuals to figure out how to adapt and work in the world around us, than it is to expect the entire world to adapt to us. That doesn't mean we can't change some things. That doesn't mean we take a "you're on your own buddy" approach, that we act like asshats towards one another, that we never take anyone else and their struggles into consideration, we can do all those things and more. But it does mean that we don't ALWAYS have to, or even that we ALWAYS should. Sometimes..we can't, and we shouldn't...and the person feeling temporarily offended is going to have to deal with those issues on his/her own..... and that's just the way life is. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: I'd hate to think your point is that what I said about suicide levels among the disabled in Britain is meaningless because you can mention places where it's worse. What is your point? No..my point is, it’s horrible to conceive that your suicide levels could reach record levels, period. Japan is a reference point because the rate there is relatively high compared to other countries. Please don’t think I meant to make your country’s issue less meaningful. I’ve seen, in my own US neighborhood, SWAT teams called out for gunshots, then zero reporting when it turned out to be a suicide. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rya Nitely Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) 7 hours ago, LittleMe Jewell said: You can force them to be kind, force them to not say certain things and to act a certain way, but you cannot actually force "respect". That's okay, it does the job just as well. A bit more about my work place. Management and HR were to blame for the culture. But things have changed. Our work motto is People Matter. I recently discussed my issues with Management and HR, and even though they didn't admit fault, to avoid liability, they didnt deny it, and that helped. They simply said ''What can we do to help you?'. In the past I wkould have been told to find another job if I'm not happy. Attitudes are changing. We now have strong anti- bullying rules, because ' toughen up' obviously hasn't worked. I was never hugged as a child, ever. My mother had 4 children and a full time job, and an abusive husband. She had no time to care about a stuttering boy. And here I am, hoping that things keep heading in the right direction, not so much for me, but for others like me. So, nobody noticed any sharpness in Solar Legions comment about 'just bloody turn the page' or something like that. Maybe people need to have it said to them to see it. I don't know. Written on a phone so please excuse typos etc Edited September 16, 2018 by Rya Nitely Fix typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, Rya Nitely said: So, nobody noticed any sharpness in Solar Legions comment about 'just bloody turn the page' or something like that. Maybe people need to have it said to them to see it. I don't know. Even IF people saw it, or also thought it to be a hit "sharp" (I did not, you, clearly did, and that's ok), it's just as likely that they didn't think it was a big deal. Pick your battles my friend, pick your battles. Yes even the smallest, most seemingly innocuous to others comment, can also get under my skin(it happens to all of us, no one can truthfully deny it), it's a temporary discomfort that *I* have to learn to move past. Sometimes the fight isn't really worth it, or necessary, and neither is the defensive nature we express. So, while I fully understand your point of view, and why you have it as well(and I do agree with many points you've made), sometimes the answer really is "ignore it and move on". We may not LIKE that answer, or how it's worded, but that doesn't mean it isn't ultimately the right one for that situation. Sometimes we really do have to try our hardest to toughen ourselves up, thicken our own skins, even when we feel doing such is impossible. Sometimes we need to stop expecting others to do for us what only we can do. Awareness is amazing and can do amazing things for our species, but it isn't there to take away those expectations that come with self awareness. People stare at me, a lot, if I don't have sunglasses on, because they can see my eye(which is a super ugly non-functional eyeball merely filling an otherwise even uglier empty face hole that would scare everyone away). Sometimes people say things about it, and it's quite often some really crass remark(not that staring without commentary is any better, I can still tell people are judging me, lol, nearly *everyone I encounter stares, probably without realizing it). Quite often the comment is completely intended to be offensive, even if they claim they're joking. It's rarely a comment that's actually innocuous, though I get those too(mostly from kids who ask "whats's wrong with your eye"...and I don't mind that at all (I tell them it's a laser, btw, lol)! I can claim I'm offended, I can allow my body language to show that I am offended, I can address the offense and why it's so offensive....or, if I'm not inclined to waste the time and energy, I can simply walk away. Guess which works the best? Most people actually think explaining why it's offensive, and why it hurts is effective...and most people would be wrong. It's actually quite rarely effective at all, and probably leads to more people calling me and/or thinking I am, a nutter. So I take the "laugh at their arrogance/ignorance, laugh at your own expense" approach. I just don't even regularly address the issue anymore, I don't tell people why it's offensive, I do my best to not show them I was offended, and I pretend it never happened. Is it easy? Nope. I've been known to walk away and cry my eye out(yeah, I'm a baby, we've established that, lol). But in my not telling you years of life, I have learned what works and what doesn't. Awareness is doing sod all for me-and how could it, really lol, so, I switched things up. I don't expect the world to be more aware, I choose to be more SELF aware, knowing when the battle is worth the fight and when my own sanity is far more important...and it's working nicely. Well, until I have a bad day(mentally or otherwise), then the entire world can go screw itself, but that's neither here nor there ? Sometimes I'm inclined to explain "dude, knock it off" and why, but it's about as effective as nailing prepared jello to a tree, only way less fun. For me, and only me as everyone else's situation will vary, that also means learning to let go, learning to not hold grudges, learning to ignore-or at least present myself as if I am ignoring by not addressing, toughening up, growing a thicker skin, learning how best to not feel defensive whether the offense was intentional or not and...most importantly, learning that some things are simply not worth the energy I'm going to put into typing out "you've offended me", much less the time it takes to actually FEEL offended. I may bawl my head off later tonight about those folks staring at me for 20+ minutes this morning, but I'll be damned if I'm going to give them the satisfaction of knowing they've hurt/offended me. I might as well arm the other side before there is even is a battle at that rate. Yes, I know, there is a difference between a physical impairment and a mental health impairment, well, many differences really, but that doesn't mean there aren't similarities too. We still have to learn to deal with our moments of weakness(everyone has them), rather than expecting the entire world to do so for us, regardless of the type of impairment we have. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 23 minutes ago, Garnet Psaltery said: Speaking as a Briton I can tell you my country is now back to the days of the Victorians in terms of the wealth gap, but without their sense of patronage or even decency. Did you know that among disabled people suicide attempts have gone from 21%to 43% in 7 years? Our position has sod all to do with Brexit and a great deal to do with the sociopaths running our country - the Tories now and New Labour, who introduced a new form of claiming process for the incapacitated. Much more is wrong with our country - 2 million people using foodbanks is one more example. Regression in the near term? We're already there! p.s. I really don't want to argue about politics here but I had to reply to what you said. I agree that wealth inequality within countries is a growing problem. Hans addresses that (albeit briefly) within the larger story of increasing overall global wealth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rya Nitely Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 30 minutes ago, Tari Landar said: Sometimes we need to stop expecting others to do for us what only we can do. Awareness is amazing and can do amazing things for our species, but it isn't there to take away those expectations that come with self awareness. I don't think I really meant to say anything different to what you said there. My point was about awareness, and in attempting to make people aware I am picking my battle. Of course people need to help themselves, and I think I have demonstrated self awareness and self control, which has come through self help. So, thank you for reinforcing the importance of that. Anyway, my viewpoints have stimulated thought, and that's a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rya Nitely Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 I'm at work, and it's overwhelming the positive change in people, and it's genuine, I can see it in their faces. It makes me think that people want to be nice. It's just easier than being negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum Meriman Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tari Landar said: Hell I get flack for having long posts , eh hem, lol , and I can either choose to be offended that I'm told I talk too much, or laugh at the person struggling with a response that has more than a few sentence. I learned years ago to opt for the latter I sometimes wonder if your TTS has to stop and take a deep breath (light hearted words said with a smile), but your posts are well reasoned and mostly valid. We've butted heads a few times, but I've also very much had my opinion and position changed by you. A lot of people have changed my position, I'm very open to change! I think most people are in fact. Learning, accepting that one is wrong, growing from the advice of others is part of being a grown up after all. We get to spend our entire childhood practicing that very skill. What I see in the "snowflakes" is they are too proud to listen and have become stubborn as goats. They read something they don't like and they close up their minds to dig in their heels. They want their world view validated as absolutely correct and the only truth. Anyone who won't validate their views is a troll and to be reported. Oh and a word for Rya, as a now recovered from depression Aussie (took 15 years and three suicide attempts), I absolutely abhor RUOK day, I'm as strong as hell and think most people fighting mental health issues are too. We don't need fake pity from people on just one day of the year. I'd far prefer genuine acceptance and understanding of mental health issues 365 days a year without that saccarine sweetness shown on just one day then forgotten. Having experienced RUOK day since it started I believe it sends the wrong message. People struggling with mental health don't need just one day of this, they need understanding and support 365 days a year. They dont need Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, Julia Gillard, Kevin Rudd, Tony Abbott, Malcolm Turnbull, Scott Morrison to wear a token lapel badge as they shout down the opposition in question time as a political point. They need the Prime Minister to actually give some serious funding to mental health. https://www.openaustralia.org.au/debates/?id=2018-09-13.45.1 (yes, that was RUOK day, just a political point for Scotty) Edited September 17, 2018 by Callum Meriman 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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