Tier price and land adjustment

[greek Wingtips]

Is time I think that LL should change its tier and land mass structure, but giving existing members that litter upgrade without breaking the banking and paying little more if one requires more prims

Adding the extras( red) which would not be a massive jump in monthy tier prices would encourage more to but.

 

What are your views

[Ethan Paslong]

29 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said:

Adding the extras( red)

What are your views

 

those added numbers are nearly impossible, the parcels would get absurdly formed, and the minimum divided land size is 16 sqm

logic upping would be in 512/1024 sizes

1024

1536

2048

2560

...

...

Edited April 11, 2018 by Ethan Paslong

[Qie Niangao]

Very bad idea, as long as the next step above 12K is only 16K for nearly double the price.

In theory, one could just apply extra allotment to higher and higher tier levels, but it would be simpler to argue for lower prices at each tier level. None of this is likely to be of interest to the Lab right now, while the new pricing is still increasing demand for Mainland.

An interesting alternative would be to set per sq.m. pricing at each tier level, so the actual fee per month varies continuously as a function of the amount of land held, with the lower per sq.m. prices still providing incentive for higher tiers. It's a marketing decision, though, whether the current step-function pricing lures more tier upgrades.

(One thing I'm pretty sure is not an incentive: the per sq.m. pricing rises substantially with $44 per quarter-region step above one full region, whereas the step from 3/4 to 1 region cost only $25. I find it hard to imagine anybody ever takes that next step.)

[Lillith Hapmouche]

I'm very egoistically thinking here: a new step between the 35 and 67 US$ tiers would be greatly welcomed, like ... just vaguely guessing ... US$47 for 12 000ish sqm or something along those lines.

The lower jumps are quite too small to squeeze in some new ones, while the gap on the upper level has drastically increased since the new tier stages.

[Fionalein]

32 minutes ago, Lillith Hapmouche said:

I'm very egoistically thinking here: a new step between the 35 and 67 US$ tiers would be greatly welcomed, like ... just vaguely guessing ... US$47 for 12 000ish sqm or something along those lines.

The lower jumps are quite too small to squeeze in some new ones, while the gap on the upper level has drastically increased since the new tier stages.

Yeah true, there won't be many people who "just" enter that range. Those who do will almost certainly try to expand up to the next limit soon or just avoid going there because of the huge step involved (you can puzzle together a less steep step by land group and using an alt, but that is just to annoying for most).

Edited April 11, 2018 by Fionalein

[Lillith Hapmouche]

3 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

(you can puzzle together a less steep step by land group and using an alt, but that is just to annoying for most).

Do tell... and don't forget that you manually have to add VAT costs and convert to and fro to your currency, most of the time. Would probably be too handy if switching to a different display language would also switch to your local currency display.

It's almost a reflex by now for me to fire up a currency converter like OANDA when buying L$ or calculating land cost.

[greek Wingtips]

My figures are suggestions but the important part is the actual tier jump, its way too high between tiers if you're on a budget their is no incentive to proceed to the next tier

 

[Alyona Su]

The way it is now is the way it will stay for the simple reason that the calculation to determine the tier for each and every person owning land in SL is simple: Each tier is simply twice the size of the previous tier. Anything else just complicates things for the user and for the company.

To create tier levels in any other way means a lot more mathematical formula under the hood and I really doubt LL would spend the money, time, and effort to scour through all that server and viewer code to update formulas, not to mention conjuring up the correct formulas, to begin with.

@greek Wingtips "Budget" is an ambiguous word. If your budget doesn't allow you to a higher tier, it doesn't mean someone else's budget does not. This is the thing: we all see the world from the perspective of our own wallets. What is "cheap" to me may be ridiculously expensive to you. It's all about value.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Alyona Su

[greek Wingtips]

39 minutes ago, Alyona Su said:

The way it is now is the way it will stay for the simple reason that the calculation to determine the tier for each and every person owning land in SL is simple: Each tier is simply twice the size of the previous tier. Anything else just complicates things for the user and for the company.

To create tier levels in any other way means a lot more mathematical formula under the hood and I really doubt LL would spend the money, time, and effort to scour through all that server and viewer code to update formulas, not to mention conjuring up the correct formulas, to begin with.

@greek Wingtips "Budget" is an ambiguous word. If your budget doesn't allow you to a higher tier, it doesn't mean someone else's budget does not. This is the thing: we all see the world from the perspective of our own wallets. What is "cheap" to me may be ridiculously expensive to you. It's all about value.

 

[greek Wingtips]

Nice reply but to be honest means nothing, we all are aware that membership and buying land in sl is way down,  the increments of tier price are way too high, If you have facts to show that LL's is bring in more members and Tier sales have  increased then I eat my words, but I do not think your going to show me that, I would think they are down from prevoius years.

 

My idea would allow existing members to climb up the tier ladder at an affordable rate and new members have more of a choice in tier rent,

[Ethan Paslong]

3 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said:

we all are aware that membership and buying land in sl is way down,  ......I do not think your going to show me that, I would think they are down from prevoius years.

here we go again... people are still waiting in your old threads to come with proof for the falling sky

53 minutes ago, greek Wingtips said:

 if you're on a budget their is no incentive to proceed to the next tier

if you'r on a budget you have to stay on your budget... if i can't pay a BMW or Bugatti, i will keep driving my Ford Ka ....

i can't pay for a whole sim, so i keep it to my 4096 parcel.

[So Whimsy]

You just gotta be smart about it.

 

 

See? I am just shy of 6000sqm yet only pay the 4096sqm tier price. Works for the higher tier levels, too.

Ergo, what you want is already in place.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

4 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

(One thing I'm pretty sure is not an incentive: the per sq.m. pricing rises substantially with $44 per quarter-region step above one full region, whereas the step from 3/4 to 1 region cost only $25. I find it hard to imagine anybody ever takes that next step.)

Remember, though - before the tier changes the next step above "full region" was an additional half-region at $125.

One factor that just oozes over the numbers that people might not miss at first is "stability" - the Lab doesn't want people buying land on a whim that they can't afford. The tier steps encourage the development of smaller numbers of large landholders. The latest tier changes seem to be encouraging about the same number of people to pay about the same amount while taking up more space because it's available. 

[Qie Niangao]

10 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Remember, though - before the tier changes the next step above "full region" was an additional half-region at $125.

Thanks -- that's what I thought I remembered, but never seriously considered it, so when I looked at the new pricing I doubted my memory of that old next-step tier, offering no savings at all over having an alt own that additional half-sim. That's even crazier, and I really can't imagine anybody having ever done that on purpose.

I'm sure this all satisfies some marketing dictum, but I doubt they applied the same logic to private estate quantity discounts such as the Atlas program: Your second hundred sims are discounted 20%, but grow any larger than that and you're back to the same price. *moustache-twirl*

[Alyona Su]

1 hour ago, greek Wingtips said:

Nice reply but to be honest means nothing, we all are aware that membership and buying land in sl is way down,  the increments of tier price are way too high, If you have facts to show that LL's is bring in more members and Tier sales have  increased then I eat my words, but I do not think your going to show me that, I would think they are down from prevoius years.

 

My idea would allow existing members to climb up the tier ladder at an affordable rate and new members have more of a choice in tier rent,

But wait... to some people you are 1% - so why should your suggested changes allow YOU to upgrade tier in your budget, but not those people?

I reiterate that you center the world around your point of view. The tier breaks are just fine the way they are. As for tier pricing, well, LL has already addressed that, now haven't they? As for people's budgets, all are different. I've owned up to four private sims and two entire mainland sims *simultaneously* at one point. Because all these tiers and land fees fit within my budget just fine. My budget matters only to me, not you, right? Well, turn that table and what do you get?

Your suggestion (read: self-serving idea) only serves to benefit you and others in the same budget levels as you. So I say again, what about all those people whose budgets are not as large as yours?

[Klytyna]

22 hours ago, greek Wingtips said:

Is time I think that LL should change its tier and land mass structure

Let's see if I understand you correctly...

1. The noisy Premium Madlander minority who at most, provide 20-30 % of LL's land based revenue, get a 33% subsidy on the prices payed by non-Premium Islanders, by paying $12 US a year. A saving of almost $1200 US per year on a full region.

2. That 33 % / $1200 US saving isn't enough for you so... Cue Entitlement Syndrome whining

3. LL capitulate and double tier free land allocation AND hand out another 10% discount.

4. That STILL isn't enough for you, cue more Entitlement Syndrome whining, and a demand that LL should increase land allocations for 1/16 region, 1/8 region and 1/4 region Premium Madlanders by about 75%.

5. You claim that this will help income by causing more people to switch from paying $295 a month per region to paying a hell of a lot less... Yes that's right, less customers paying less for land because they pay a $12 US a year Entitlement Fee will increase Company Revenue!... NOT!

So... Entitlement Syndrome much?

 

[greek Wingtips]

What drivel are you on about, I personally play LL a fee of $388.80 per year, you think thats little money, I know others that pay much much more,If you read what I wrote your see I talking about putting small tier increments in place.

 

Your reply is a complete waste of effort and time

[Qie Niangao]

It's pretty indecipherable, particularly the US$12/yr amount.* These posts get so clotted with idiosyncratic neologisms that one gives up trying to find the Talmudic wisdom that might be encoded within. Or not.

The change in tier rates might have been an opportunity to offer some additional tier levels that retained the previous pricing but increased the area, as an alternate to the default decrease in price for retaining the previous areas. That way, folks who were already accustomed to paying some amount could continue paying that exact amount and get a modest boost in area (beyond the boosted Bonus from 512 to 1024).

Probably there was some good marketing reason not to do it. Marketing is all black magic to me. Maybe it's just too complicated to communicate to customers.

__________
* Maybe the annual plan Premium fee net of stipend, truncated to the next-lower integer dollar per month, times twelve months. Or just a number picked at random?  Who can tell?

[Klytyna]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

It's pretty indecipherable, particularly the US$12/yr amount.

I'll go slowly for the hard of thinking...

Premium... $72 a year MINUS Stipend $60 a year - $12 a year.

Madlands regions... 7500 ish, about 30% of which produce NO income, LLDPW land, abandoned land, the ruins of the Phil Linden Memorial Sports Village, etc.

The land that does produce tier was at $195 a month for a full region, now 10% cheaper than that.

Islands regions 15,500 ish all of which produce tier, at $295 a month un-grandfathered for a full region.

Yeah thers homestead sims, and special deals, but ball park figures for working out who provides the bulk of the land based revenue are fairly simple. Simple enough evne Premium Madlanders should be able to follow the numbers.

( 15,500 times $295 times 100% ) > ( 7500 times $195 times 70% )

Is that decipherable enough for you?

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

one gives up trying to find the Talmudic wisdom that might be encoded within

It's called Mathamatics, it's quite popular in the business world, try it some time...

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by Klytyna

[Klytyna]

4 hours ago, greek Wingtips said:

If you read what I wrote your see I talking about putting small tier increments in place.

Adding 12,000 sqm to a 16,000 sqm allowance is NOT a small increase, it's a 75% increase. It means somebody paying $67 a month for a 1/4 sim ends up only 4096 less than the 1/2 sim person paying $112. That is not a small inclease, that is some self entitled asshat being greedy and demanding more 'free' stuff' because he's entitled..
 

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Klytyna said:

I'll go slowly for the hard of thinking...

Premium... $72 a year MINUS Stipend $60 a year - $12 a year.

Madlands regions... 7500 ish, about 30% of which produce NO income, LLDPW land, abandoned land, the ruins of the Phil Linden Memorial Sports Village, etc.

The land that does produce tier was at $195 a month for a full region, now 10% cheaper than that.

Islands regions 15,500 ish all of which produce tier, at $295 a month un-grandfathered for a full region.

Yeah thers homestead sims, and special deals, but ball park figures for working out who provides the bulk of the land based revenue are fairly simple. Simple enough evne Premium Madlanders should be able to follow the numbers.

( 15,500 times $295 times 100% ) > ( 7500 times $195 times 70% )

Is that decipherable enough for you?

It's called Mathamatics, it's quite popular in the business world, try it some time...

 

For those who prefer to use mathematics Tyche Shepherd offers numbers which actually might be usable, seeing as only 55.5% of private regions are full regions (and there's no way of knowing how many of those were always grandfathered or bought down in 2016.)

http://www.gridsurvey.com/index.php

[Qie Niangao]

2 hours ago, Klytyna said:

I'll go slowly for the hard of thinking...

Premium... $72 a year MINUS Stipend $60 a year - $12 a year.

[irrelevance elided]

It's called Mathamatics, it's quite popular in the business world, try it some time...

Yeah, but it's weird mathematics -- L$300/wk stipend works out to US$62/year at the standard 250:1 exchange rate, so net cost of Premium on the annual plan is more like US$10/yr -- but even though the annual plan isn't the only offer, as my footnote reveals, I'd already guessed that was the specific weird math in question. 

There's lots more weird math to follow. E.g., why base calculations on full-sim Mainland tier, when it's obvious most Mainland is owned in units that are much smaller -- and higher priced per sq.m.?

Of course Estates generate more total revenue for the Lab, as they have for years. Nobody cares. Comparing Mainland and Estates either in total or per-sim tier revenue is absurdly simplistic: These two Land products, plus Linden Homes, are deeply interdependent, with customers straddling and moving across categories all the time as their interests evolve -- and everybody wins.

[Klytyna]

9 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

when it's obvious most Mainland is owned in units that are much smaller -- and higher priced per sq.m.?

Ball park figures...

Yeah most Madlands parcels are less than a full region, guess what, so are most islands parcels, the point is, compare price payed by the occupant, and Madlanders pay a hell of a lot less, and despite paying a hell of a lot less, STILL feel that paying LESS than $1 US a month ENTITLES them to demand a 75% increase in the amount of land they get...

10 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

and everybody wins

Ah, is that the special "everybody" that consists of just Entitled Madlander Premium Tier-Leechers, with their 40% discount for a $1 a month fee?

Read Greeks posts again... he's claiming that because he spends 360 odd dollars a YEAR, that he's ENTITLED to a 75% increase in his land, but for example, a friend of mine out in the islands who's paying more than $60 a WEEK, isn't entitled to anything because Islander funded price cuts and Islander funded handouts are JUST for the "Less than a $1 a month" Entitlement Club.

 

[greek Wingtips]

No thats not what I said  Klytna, all am saying LL should place increments of small Tiers sizes and prices between what is there now. 

[Qie Niangao]

5 hours ago, Klytyna said:

Yeah most Madlands parcels are less than a full region, guess what, so are most islands parcels, the point is, compare price payed by the occupant, and Madlanders pay a hell of a lot less, and despite paying a hell of a lot less, STILL feel that paying LESS than $1 US a month ENTITLES them to demand a 75% increase in the amount of land they get...

Is this 75% more of your "ball park" math? I mean, if you'd bothered actually reading anything I said, you'd see I disagree with Greek's suggestion, but I don't see anything remotely like 75% increases.

And you're just embarrassing yourself with this constant, whining comparison of Mainland and Estate fees. To hear you tell it, they should have to pay Mainlanders to suffer the horrors of the place. It's really like the old Jewish joke about the Catskills resort where the food is bad, and such small portions.

Edited April 13, 2018 by Qie Niangao