Ellehammer Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Hey everyone, I recently purchased a parcel of land with one of the big Land companies (out of courtesy I won't name them)... I negotiated my weekly tier with the Agent, and once I had paid the first week's rent he then informs me that I had an outstanding amount from an old rental agreement. Not just loose change - we're talking a few thousand! I have not had land in ages, so I asked when this was from. It turns out it's from almost a year ago. I was informed I should open a ticket to discuss payment of the old tier. I said I would not do this and if they wanted to discuss it they knew where to find me. I've never heard of this before - I still can't even remember renting land on the sim name I was given! I was told that if I didn't pay it direct, it would be added onto the tier of my new land. Is this permitted or even legal? As far as I am concerned, I am fully up to date on my only active land holding. Just wanted to hear the opinions of the wider community. Is this normal behavior? Surely if they were that bothered about this supposed debt (still have no recollection of it - I am pretty good with my rental payments!) they'd have contacted me way before now, rather than waiting on the off-chance that I rent with them again? Not sure where I stand, but this has really taken the edge off moving into my new land. Any feedback greatly appreciated! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Leave. I think, they are trying to scam you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellehammer Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 But like i said, this is one of the big four land companies! It's not like it's some new upstart - I can't see them being involved in scamming people. They'd have too much to loose? Also, lets not forget I just paid the first week's tier on a large parcel. If I walk away now they'll get more than the amount they were asking for in arrears, and then some! Plus I'll be out of pocket and once again homeless... I really with they'd mentioned this BEFORE i signed on the dotted line - it is just a bit fishy to wait until after I pay to bring up a supposed year-old arrears? I've never heard of any land company doing that before. Surely that is unenforceable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Legion Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I don't know which rental 'company' you went through but it has been my experience thus far that the 'agents' have no say whatsoever in how much you pay as far as tier is concerned. Any of them that use a rental box system will have set rates per week, payable to the box itself. In the event that you went into arrears sometime in the past, the management or even owner of the group could very well decide to have you pay it back before letting you rent again with them. Yes it is enforceable if they choose to do so as the owner at the very least would have administrative control over the rental boxes and would be able to set it to reflect the back owed tier. In this case you have two different red flags: The Agent cannot dictate how much your tier is, management/the primary owner sets that. Secondly this 'agent' waited until after you paid to bring this up. Contact a manager or the owner and find out if this person really is part of their staff. Your reluctance to file a ticket with the group is doing you no favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syo Emerald Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Are there currently four big ones? I can only say that, in all my time renting land from private estates, I have never encountered a request like this and honestly, not even a situation, where any "agent" had a say in what I'm paying as rent. Solar might be right, and this agent could be just pretend to be associated with the land group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellehammer Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 Well he's definately associated with them. I negotiated a slightly lower weekly tier with him, and he changed the price of the land accordingly - so that to me allays any fears of him being non-connected. He did go quiet for a few minutes whilst I assume that he was talking with his superiors about the tier rates? But it must have been him that changed the land price as no-one else appeared at this time. I don't have an objection to filing a ticket per-se.. i take issue with the way in which this was done. No mention of this was ever made before I purchased. It was only once I had paid my first weeks tier that I was informed of this. The fact of the matter remains that I am perfectly up to date with my only current rental. If they think I owe them money from a year ago then it's up to them to come speak about it, as far as I am concerned. I mean, what if I had never rented with them again? Would they be chasing me in RL? It's just crazy to throw this at someone in this manner. I have no memory of even being on the sim name he gave me when I asked. I have definately rented with this company before though, that much I can say. That, and that I always make sure all rents are paid, and when I leave, I abandon land and inform landlord. It's just basic courtesy after all. Basically, what I'm asking is, is it right for a landlord to wait until after you've signed up, then add an 'disputed debt' from an old account to your new account? Surely this should have been pursued at the time - which is why it seems so fishy now! Cheers for the comments so far guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellehammer Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 15 minutes ago, Solar Legion said: In the event that you went into arrears sometime in the past, the management or even owner of the group could very well decide to have you pay it back before letting you rent again with them. I take your point - but as I explained, no mention of this was made at any time until *after* the new lease had been paid and the rental started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhonda Huntress Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 56 minutes ago, Ellehammer said: Is this permitted or even legal? 56 minutes ago, Ellehammer said: Not sure where I stand, First things first. Let's clear up any misconceptions about the word tier. In common SL use it becomes synonymous with rent but it really is not. It refers to the Linden Lab policy of charging in steps. If you own mainland you pay fees to LL depending on your tier level. I bring this up because land owners like to use the term to help lend an air of credibility to their company. In fact, they are just another resident. This resident may be in business with other residents that them employ even more residents but when it comes down to it, this is a resident to resident dispute as far as LL is concerned. "Is this permitted?" Yes. The land owner can do pretty much what ever they want with their land. As far where you stand, you gave someone some money. That's it. It's gone, sayonara, bonsoir, arrivedercii, goodbye. Whether or not they let you stay on their land is an entirely different matter. I know that to you, you paid rent on a place and should be able to stay there at the agreed on price. In reality ... it is all a matter of trust. You gave him money and trusted him to let you stay there at that price but he is under no legal obligation to do so. In short, the only people who can do anything about letting you stay at the agreed rice are the people that own the land. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 55 minutes ago, Ellehammer said: Basically, what I'm asking is, is it right for a landlord to wait until after you've signed up, then add an 'disputed debt' from an old account to your new account? Surely this should have been pursued at the time - which is why it seems so fishy now! "is it right?" is not the same as "is it okay?". In SL, a land owner can pretty much do as they want, whether or not any of us think it is ''right or ethical'. As to 'it seems fishy', contact the actual owner or management of the group to clear everything up. Is this 'agent' wanting you to pay him/her directly the amount that is supposedly due? If so, most definitely contact someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellehammer Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 7 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said: "is it right?" is not the same as "is it okay?". In SL, a land owner can pretty much do as they want, whether or not any of us think it is ''right or ethical'. As to 'it seems fishy', contact the actual owner or management of the group to clear everything up. Is this 'agent' wanting you to pay him/her directly the amount that is supposedly due? If so, most definitely contact someone else. Nope, he said it would need to be paid directly to the owner of the company, or it would be added onto the weekly payments on my new parcel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 29 minutes ago, Ellehammer said: Nope, he said it would need to be paid directly to the owner of the company, or it would be added onto the weekly payments on my new parcel. Well, unfortunately that sounds legit at least. You could contact the owner directly to discuss it or open a ticket with them to discuss it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 A different perspective... If I were the landlord, and I knew that a person who turned up to rent from me owes me rent from the past, I would probably do it the same way - get money first and then bring up the debt. If I mentioned it first, the person might just go away and I'd get nothing of what's owed to me. But if I let the person pay some rent and then bring it up, at least I'll get something of what is owed if they decide to go away. I can't criticise what happened. It makes sense to do it the way it was done. Was it right to do it that way? Yes it was. As far as the land owner is concerned, you owe money, but there is nothing he/her can do about it if you choose not to pay. At least getting a week's rent from you is a plus. Your lack of memory is totally irrelevant from his/her point of view. His/her records are all that's relevant. It's interesting that you haven't claimed not to owe the money. I don't know if you do or don't but, if you do, then the land owner did the sensible thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 I'm not sure how you can owe back rent. You pay week to week, you don't pay they reclaim the land. I can see giving a day or two grace but it seems like they let you slide for a while hoping you'd catch up. Now you rented from them again, and they got the money they claim you owe. One of the big companies doesn't have the option to state your intention to abandon land on their rent boxes. One time I got notices for several weeks after I had imed the company saying i was letting the property go AND abandoned the land. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleMe Jewell Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 55 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said: A different perspective... If I were the landlord, and I knew that a person who turned up to rent from me owes me rent from the past, I would probably do it the same way - get money first and then bring up the debt. If I mentioned it first, the person might just go away and I'd get nothing of what's owed to me. But if I let the person pay some rent and then bring it up, at least I'll get something of what is owed if they decide to go away. I can't criticise what happened. It makes sense to do it the way it was done. Was it right to do it that way? Yes it was. As far as the land owner is concerned, you owe money, but there is nothing he/her can do about it if you choose not to pay. At least getting a week's rent from you is a plus. Your lack of memory is totally irrelevant from his/her point of view. His/her records are all that's relevant. It's interesting that you haven't claimed not to owe the money. I don't know if you do or don't but, if you do, then the land owner did the sensible thing. Yes, from that perspective, it does seem perfectly reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Convair Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 I don't see how you can owe them rent. You pay and they let you live there for that amount of time. If they give you a grace periode that's their risk and their problem. You say a few 1000 L$? That's alot and sounds fishy. Why would they give you such a long grace periode? Of course they can try to get what they think you owe them and you can decide if you pay that or not. They can't do anything. You just need to move out With LL it's different. If you owe them money they will take your avatar hostage. But besides of that it's your decision to pay and free your avatar or not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindy Evanier Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 14 minutes ago, Nova Convair said: I don't see how you can owe them rent. You pay and they let you live there for that amount of time. If they give you a grace periode that's their risk and their problem. You say a few 1000 L$? That's alot and sounds fishy. Why would they give you such a long grace periode? My thoughts exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Perhaps "owing rent" is possible if your balance is zero for awhile, or if the old parcel policy was monthly (not weekly). If you "abandon" it first of the month, you still owe for that month. But really, in these scenarios you did not "buy" anything and the word "tier" does not apply. You are renting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 On 10/25/2017 at 12:17 PM, Ellehammer said: Also, lets not forget I just paid the first week's tier on a large parcel. If I walk away now they'll get more than the amount they were asking for in arrears, and then some! On 10/25/2017 at 12:41 PM, Ellehammer said: I mean, what if I had never rented with them again? Would they be chasing me in RL? I would definitely take this up with the owner. It's difficult to believe that they'd take such a short-sighted approach. I mean, there's no way any sane customer would consider continuing beyond the already paid-for rental if the owner is trying to pull this, so at that instant they'll be out the old loss, plus the much larger loss of any future revenue stream from you. It's incredibly bad business (unless the Estate is planning on closing down completely next week, discounting those future cash flows to zero)... such incredibly bad business that I suspect some wires have been crossed somewhere. That this alleged debt comes up only now and not in the year or whatever since it was supposedly incurred, that's weird enough to suggest there's also some bookkeeping error. The time to try to collect a debt is immediately when it is incurred and repeatedly until they write it off; the very worst possible time must be when it puts an ongoing rental arrangement at risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Next, landlords will charge as deposit "first and last month's rent" and a fee for "cleaning and returning unclaimed prims"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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