My short SL Life...

[Nalytha]

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Hokizibin wrote:

 

 

If you are not making money then perhaps SL isn't for you as well??

 

 

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Luckily not everyone in Second Life is here to make money. Most just enjoy being here. It's a hobby just like anything else. You don't always make a profit off a hobby, but if you enjoy it enough you do it anyway. 

 

My first response may have come off rude. I honestly meant to save you and me time. I could write an essay here on the forums addressing your post, but it's really very clear to see that Second Life will probably never be a good fit for you. And honestly, that's 100% fine. That isn't me being mean. That's me being honest -- mature.  

 

There are many new residents who come to these forums confused and asking for help. It's easy to see those who genuinely want to fit in to the Second Life culture and those, like you, who want Second Life to conform to them. This place has been around for 13 years. It's not changing for you or anyone. It's a grumpy old lady on her front porch -- not moving an inch. You either enjoy it or you don't. 

 

You admit you hurt some people's feeling and got banned/ejected. I've been here for years and never been banned. It's really not hard to not hurt people's feelings. Owners can kick you for anything or nothing. You could just look funny to them and they can kick you. As a new person, you think that should change. But those of us who've been here a while recognise that's just the way it is and we work with it. Don't be a jerk and you probably won't be kicked from many places. 

[VanillaSunsets]

Oh, again you don't get it. Just speaking for me, but I know there are many like me in SL, I do make money. I make money coz I work/worked very hard. I make some money coz I spend countless days to master Blender, texturing, scripting and I got somewhere I wanted to be. I have a small store and sell my own meshes, I make enough to pay my SL rent, to pay for software I need, to have some L$ to make my land and avatar the way I want it to look. No, I don't make a big profit but I never got into SL to make a profit. I got in to explore, make friends and have fun. I started out by making simple things to make other ppl happy, like make a Christmas tree for my friends. I started out simple, and accidentally got into creating stuff. I would look at stuff at the Marketplace and wonder if I could create stuff like that myself, as I could not always afford all I wanted to buy. So I did...

So, I think you could get a long way if you started out with a different attitude. If you would have posted something like... "How do I find sims that are well populated", or like..." I don't get why landowners ban me, what did I do wrong?" Ppl would have helped you. Using the Search option in the forum would have helped too. You choose to start ranting. Next time you wonder why ppl are rude, first look at your own behavior and skip the rant.

 

[VanillaSunsets]

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If you are not making money then perhaps SL isn't for you as well??

 

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Where did you get the idea SL is a job? That it is created to make you money? If you fell for one of those web articles that tell you you will get rich in SL, you were fooled and you need to do a serious reality check. Noting in life is for free, if it looks too good to be true.... blablabla. I do on the other hand hope you realize money isn't everything and SL does offer a lot of other things. It is however possible to make some money, but not in the short time you have been around and certainly not with that attitude.

[Callum Meriman]

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Hokizibin wrote:

If you are not making money then perhaps SL isn't for you as well??

 

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That's a very narrow, Trumpish view of the world.

Art has no price.

[Pamela Galli]

I like the part about these people being put in charge of money making sims, ha ha. Like anyone put me in charge of my Sim and my store.

[HaileeTempesta]

"You must be so very, very proud to be failures in the real world."

See, you say others are rude, but then you too turn to rudeness when you don't like what people say to you. 

That is one reason why people hit the ban and mute button so often, it's easier than dealing with people who like to pretend they are far superior, but then turn out to be just as much of jerk as anyone else.  Another reason is because those of us that own those regions, pay alot of real life money to have them and shouldn't have to deal with anyone that we do not choose to.  Not everyone that has a sim and allows others to use it actually look to make a profit, so, banning doesn't hurt them at all.

By the way, you are in Second Life as well, so if what you said above holds true, then that would make you a failure as well.  Thanks for giving me a new name to add to my regions ban list on my other avatar. lol

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

 Wow. This whole thread is... wow. Maybe the OP is acting like a spoiled child, but why does everyone feel the need to lash out at them for having a bad time, thus only proving them correct?

To answer some of the OP's questions though, as others noted, everything in SL is made by the players. Many old items are created by putting primative shapes together in order to make something. Better creation and uploading features were added later, which means there is a wide range of quality. Further, most creators are amateurs who lack the training, skills, or experience to make the high quality professional models you would see in other games or in film.

As for the scale, in addition to the camera placement, a lot of people lack any formal artistic training, and thus aren't intimiately familiar with proportions and biology. This mixed with some programming choices means it is hard for players to actually scale things properly. It's not uncommon to meet people who are 8 feet tall because they don't have correcting tools to make sure they have human proportions.

And as for why people are rude or seem to lack social skills, well, that's the internet for you. SL, as with any video game or intense fandom, attracts a certain kind of person. That's not a bad thing (pretty much everyone I've met in SL is wonderful), but you are going to see certain traits more commonly online than you will in person. A lot of people in SL are in the fringe of society, but not everyone is. Regardless, there is a reason why people choose to sit behind a computer monitor, so you aren't always going to see the same kinds of interactions you would in person.

Maybe SL isn't for you. Maybe it is. No one can answer that question for you. I detest Warcraft, even though that's insanely popular. If you find your experience in SL to be truly appauling, there is a wealth of things you can entertain yourself with. But if you choose not to let a few negative experiences define the entirety of SL, I'm sure you can find things positive about it. There is a lot of really cool things in SL and great people. If you want to find that, you just need to look for it.

I hope that give something constructive to the conversation.

[Niles Cooperstone]

SHEDDING SOME LIGHT for Hokizibin

 

I can fully understand and empathise your feelings however uninformed they may be.

 

UNDERSTANDING TWTW (understanding The Way Things Work) will help a great deal.

1. Secondlife has always been an "enterprise" owned by Linden Labs, has been always will be.

2. All private regions are RENTED, not owned by the respective clients whose name appears under the "About Land" tab.

3. An individual or group is paying a monthly rental fee (Tier) to the "enterprise" for this exclusive region management.

4. Exclusive use provides management opportunities for the named renter, that the casual user (you) does not have.

5. All regions belong to an estate no matter how few (one) or how many (25+) the renter has obligated himself/herself.

 

Exclusion from a region or estate:

Some renters choose not to allow avatar with no previous payment history into their retail environment. 

Some renters choose not to allow avatar into a region or select areas of a region without group membership.

Some renters choose to eject avatar from a region for any reason or no reason.

Some renters allow group members to install security orbs on a parcel of land that will eject those not on a list.

Some renters choose to BAN individual avatar from their property which is their option requiring no element of reason.

Ejecting avatar from a region has limited rewards to the land manager for whatever choice or lack of reason 

 

Rude, Spiteful, Inconsiderate resident avatar:

When we agree to create an account with Linden Labs Second Life we all agree to the terms of service TOS.

For the new resident, the TOS is just a bunch of legal looking mumbo-jumbo that makes no sense at all for the most part.

All "members" those who have an avatar account, become citizens of the Second Life Community of residents.

Like any municipality anywhere in the world, all citizens speak different languages, aspire to different goals. 

 

Builds out of Scale and or not professional:

 

Due to the simple nature of the avatar and camera most structures, bridges, sidewalks, and landscape are larger in scale to the avatar size (which in and by itself is often grossly exaggerated.) 

Upon entering a structure, the room sizes are often excessively large in comparison to the avatar because the camera must pan around the area without obstruction otherwise, all buildings would appear claustrophobic in size related to avatar size. Thusly windows, doors, and accessories are often oversized as well. 

Since the structures are oversized to accommodate more than one avatar camera panning in a room, the landscape, furnishings and all other items are sized to the same relative perspective.

Good quality is in the eyes of the beholder. Not all avatar are expert creators nor are they required to be. Everyone has some level of experience from zero to expert. Second LIfe is a learning experience in several facets of the community, so there are many outlets for the new avatar to approach. When you see an exquisite object of creation, you will be looking at many hours of frustrating mind numbing failures that preceded it. The only way to become proficient at any one or several is to try. If they can do it, so can you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Prokofy Neva]

I think because your SL has been so short, you haven't seen enough builds. It's just not true that the world is filled with crappy, out-of-scale builds. Not at all. Go up to the upper left-hand side of your screen, or the section on this web site, and look at DESTINATIONS. Pick out themes you're interested in and travel there.

Unfortunately, like real life, SL is a "lookist" colony where you have to look good for people to take you seriously, unless you find some niche where they don't care because some other interest or theme prevails. So you have to dress up to go to a club and not look like a griefer.

SL is actually a very big place and you need to fly around more.

[Phil Deakins]

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Callum Meriman wrote:

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Hokizibin wrote:

If you are not making money then perhaps SL isn't for you as well??

 

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That's a very narrow, Trumpish view of the world.

Art has no price.

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It's not only a very narrow, Trumpish view of the word, but it's also shows a huge lack of intelligence. His question implies that everyone can make money in SL. I wonder where he imagines the money comes from. If it comes from other residents, then not everyone can make money here, so it can't be from other residents. Maybe he thinks that Linden Lab forks out money so that everyone can gain.

[looopi2]

can I have his stuff?

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Hokizibin wrote:

If you are not making money then perhaps SL isn't for you as well??

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We're supposed to make money in this thing?

I've been doing it wrong all these years - I guess I need to go delete my account and uninstall and go play The Sims or something.

I thought I was here to spend the money so other people could make it.

 

Well actually, I thought I was just here to enjoy myself, enjoy others, and give them something and someone to enjoy.

Why does capitalism have to go and try to ruin everything?

 

Motives for being in here differ for everybody.

Consider that a lot of issues can be easily answered if you consider different motives.

If my motive is to enjoy and help others enjoy - that kind of answers why I might ban troublemakers.

 

*****

Now I agree with you on the scale thing. Go read my blog (its linked in my signature), and you will see I've written all kinds of different articles on this. I don't buy the camera angle excuse the same way others do - and I've suggested fixes.

We actually have a bit of a split community on this topic. Some in my camp, and some in the 'it is what it is' camp.

If you run into some of us 'too scale' folks you'll find builds and avatars that have consistency of scale between them, usually based around the units used in SL building.

- And that's they key to why I don't buy the arguments about 'camera angle'. Because it is not that the scale is "off" in SL, but that it lacks consistency. People build randomly. Not to a larger scale, but to random different scales. Every builder seems to have their own scale. Some change between objects. Every shape maker likewise, and again sometimes not even consistent between shapes.

And you can see its all just bad skill, but look at the limbs. Arms are often so short the person would not be abl to 'wipe themselves' after using the restroom... legs are often longer than the rest of the body by over a half again amount (the exact middle of your height should be your crotch, unless you suffer a birth defect or an injury).

- If they had a consistent "other" scale, it would be about camera. But they don't. They have no consitency. It is, as you guessed in your first post, about skill in anatomy and precision.

And that's not a statement against people, its just fact that scale is not consistent. Remember we may be entitiled to our own opinions but not our own facts.

The opinion part of this is in the why this skill is lacking. I feel its because anatomy is not intuitive. It takes training, education, to know it. And more to know how to replicate it. SL lets anyone build - that's one of the wonders of it. And without education and training people build incorrect results.

Likewise with precision - knowing to measure things, look up what their measurements are for the real-world equivalent, and establish a scale factor (in things like model trains and hobby store model kits, you will often see a label saying something like "1/48th scale" - that means everything in the model, if multipled by 48, would be exactly the size and position of the thing it is modeling. Skill in SL would be having a scale factor, any factor. It doesn't have to be 1:1. If you felt this was about camera angles you could make it 1:1.5 or whatever. That is precision. I have some level of guides on this as well, but I've often written just assuming people understood this point when I need to realize they often don't and find better ways to address it.

So I'm in the camp of people that puts out a lot of guides on how to replicate anatomy and scale in SL. I get a lot of people coming to read those guides and some number of them thankful for it. No one has to, but its there for those who desire it.

Of course SL lets anyone build and enjoy - so I don't pressure or hassle anyone about these issues. I may inwardly sigh when I see it incorrectly done, but I just put my info out there and wait for those who want it to come seeking it.

SL is for each person, their expression of themselves - we can be there to help each other in that journey if they want to go in the same direction as us, but not force or push it. Fully realizing that will help answer a lot of your other concerns.

[Penny Patton]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

The opinion part of this is in the why this skill is lacking. I feel its because anatomy is not intuitive. It takes training, education, to know it. And more to know how to replicate it. SL lets anyone build - that's one of the wonders of it. And without education and training people build incorrect results.

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 While everything you said is true, it's worth pointing out that another issue is the appearance editor itself. It's extremely unintuitive and was not designed with human proportions in mind. Adjusting avatar size requires a considerable amount of work because just adjusting the height slider by itself will leave you looking stretched or squashed. You need to adjust every individual proportion itself to make them proportionate to your new size.

 On top of that, it's pretty evident that whoever set up the appearance editor sliders wasn't too familiar with human proportions themselves. It's impossible to maintain a proportionate human body outside of a narrow range between about 5' and 6'3" tall. Any taller or any shorter and you begin to run into problems like being unable to make your head big enough, arms long enough, torso short enough, etcetera. Worse still, the Linden who set up the sliders held some strange beliefs about the differences between men and women, as a female shape is forced to have shorter arms than are possible on the male shapes, while men are forced to have shorter legs than are possible on the female shape. Also, while yes, men are typically taller than women it seems odd that LL would force women to have a shorter possible height than men in a virtual world rather than giving both sexes equal freedom of character customization.

 There's other problems with the appearance editing options, but that right there should illustrate why it's so much more difficult than it needs to be. There are videogames that offer players as much or more freedom in crafting their character's shape and yet manage to be far simpler to grasp just by avoiding these problems.

 

 I still wish LL would create a 2.0 avatar set with their own separate appearance editors, so LL could implement improvements over the old system as well as replacing the badly made original avatar mesh.