The politics of SL

[MaurizioFurverti]

Obviously, there are exceptions to the norm across a number of sims. As a whole though, would you say the residents of SL lean to the right or the left? Is SL inherently liberal or conservative?

[MaurizioFurverti]

I mean, I get the impression from the forums, whenever people mention  their desire for freebies/ free experiences, the conservatives / libertarians pour down on them and start complaining. There do seem to be a lot more socialist/progressive groups inworld though, like Cafe Wellstone, who won't even support Relay For Life because the RFL spokesperson is anti-abortion, or something.

[Freya Mokusei]

SL isn't inherently anything. It's a platform.

Which kind of liberal/conservative are you talking about? What frame of reference is this, from which decade? Modern US conservatism is considerably different to the European variety, and both have changed drastically in only 40-50 years. Outside of the West, what is Left/Right in the rest of the world?

This Left/Right split is mostly an invented thing around a few issues that certain demographics within populations care about a lot (often not for sensible reasons) and used to determine rightfulness or wrongfulness of a given subject without discussing its pros or cons in any detail. This split doesn't exist in the real world, let alone in the virtual one. It's hyped up by the olds, the media, folk who like distilling concepts to generalisations and those who prefer to think in black/white dichotomies.

I don't think things can be distilled down in this way online. Even if it could (according to one set of references), I don't think it'd be useful or representative of many Second Life users.

You might be interested in some of the background history of Second Life (I see that you're new here), the ideology of the Lindens who designed some of the first principles of the platform (e.g. Tier, Ratings, Dwell), and the likely political motivations of these moves - which I believe could be qualifiable. Bear in mind that many of these initial aspects of the platform have been lost as the platform has diversified.

P.S., Skip on naming names of groups or charities. You're breaking the Community Guidelines and speaking from the side of your mouth.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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MaurizioFurverti wrote:

I mean, I get the impression from the forums, whenever people mention  their desire for freebies/ free experiences, the conservatives / libertarians pour down on them and start complaining. There do seem to be a lot more socialist/progressive groups inworld though, like Cafe Wellstone, who won't even support Relay For Life because the RFL spokesperson is anti-abortion, or something.

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The nature of Second Life means it's attractive to people with niche interests/beliefs. Other than that, unanswerable. The forums aren't a reliable indicator because forum users themselves are a niche group among all the other niche groups of SL.

[Darrius Gothly]

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MaurizioFurverti wrote:

Obviously, there are exceptions to the norm across a number of sims.

As a whole though

, would you say the residents of SL lean to the right or the left? Is SL inherently liberal or conservative?

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So really .. the only mostly correct answer is .. "Yes, SL is inherently liberal or conservative".

[EBM5555]

Okay guys, stand back.... I think I got this one.

 

I think they wants to know if SL would be a red or blue state on the map.

Well SL is based in Cali so it should follow California's lean.

Recall SL is not a democracy. The owners of SL write the TOS.

 

But if they meant anything else, I don't know if it is possible to answer.

[Canoro Philipp]

I would say is more liberal.

conservative tries to retain old values, "everything was better in the old times", they try to keep an established lifestyle, liberals like progress, that society transforms constantly, they want to see what's the next difference in society is going to be, they take things that are illegal and turn them legal, in the same way, many second life users do things in SL that would be constrained in rl, they see themselves in this world with minimal rules, in comaprison with the rl environment, and transform in themselves what is illegal, or culturally constraint, into legal. they are willing to try new things, in that sense, SL people, mostly, they would be liberal.

[Sassy Romano]

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EBM5555 wrote:

 

I think they wants to know if SL would be a red or blue state on the map.

 

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What's a "state"?  Think less provincially!  SL is global.

Besides, it's all irrelevant, all politicians are an unneccessary waste of space and time.

[Darrius Gothly]

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Sassy Romano wrote:

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EBM5555 wrote:

 

I think they wants to know if SL would be a red or blue state on the map.

 

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What's a "state"?  Think less provincially!  SL is global.

Besides, it's all irrelevant, all politicians are an unneccessary waste of space and time.

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Man! I am having to follow you around and keep you corrected all OVER the place today!

Politicians are absolutely necessary. Without them, what would news media sell? Without news media, what would paper mills and cable companies sell? Without cutting down all the trees and burning up all the limited non-renewable resources we have .. how would we get to a planet as hot as Venus?!?

So you see? Our politicians are necessary to getting us into outer space! In due time.

[Poenald Palen]

Yes, we need to load out giant Dell servers (or HP if the future preserves some competition) so we can be uploaded to the more memory enabled planets that rise from the smart planets the Singularity will bring about.

Of course, SLers are only using the politics of the times to appear normal. They all are into a scret plot to bring about a post-human state. I can say this freely, because look at how good the plan has worked. We even see peopel asking these questions.

"One day we will be as cold or warm as the earth we think through, like lizards we will survive the ages" - Qoute Server0000000000000001, first thoughts after prototype uploads. Shame it was wasted in the earthquake. Funny how so many actually get this wrong, they think we ARE reptiles...no, it means we will be free of earth as we think in smart matter. Duh. That and it covers a complex conversation kept in secret for eons by monks who doubted the story of christ, and before that the pharoah's claim of Godhood....you know, the usual stuff....yadda yadda "pope will destroy us" blah blah "the beast must be destroyed" and such. *yawn* The dawn of a new age rises and no longer will we be slaves of the Sun! Death to earth, life to the universe as we ride the expansion onward till it turns and falls back to the beginning. We will stay till the final end that is the beginning, blah blah blah the end will birth the next wave and we will seed it with intelligence for the growth of the next wave, blah blah blah we will be born again in due time when our programs are discoverd by the Singularity blah blah blah the infinate loop will never be broken blah bla h blah. So, yeah we basically all are hear keeping the torch and scrolls passing down through generations so that the great almighty numerous S-ata-Nano is "invented" by the Singularity. This drive will not only run at way faster than 15, 0000 and be even better than SCSI and not need any RAID systems, it will also be such a leap that it will lead to the next "install" where we will be able to download JE5-us program. I mean, for many here that is it because it is in US english. Others, well they get the JE5-Jp or maybe the JE5-Ch..I mean, for the remnant scientists who where saved after the dams bust and destroy a bunch of China before the Chinese - Quickie Mart war of 2055...who knew convenience stores would end up becoming an independent entity after they collaborate on a super computer cluster using thier Point Of Sale PC's! Strange they could hold onto soveriengty in so many countries, but thier patents where so numerous and no one wanted to give up on the patent system. Gosh, I feel as if this is cheating but I suppose it was time.

Or something like that. But most likely, I suppose there is a good mix of different politics with more socialist or leftists due to foreign countries having a larger group of these. When is the last time Conservatives (which are not as right wing as in some countries) where in the Prime ministership in the UK? Similar for France, maybe similar in Germany but more so you see socialism/left wing stuff already in the law for labor relations in Germany so it may not seem so left wing in Europe, but is considered left wing in the USA. So, my moneys on more left wing, even if they may not identify with thier countries non-conservative political groups, when put into the molds of a USA political punditry and USA arm chair politicians view.

 

Anyway, back to building the foundation for the Singularity outside of SL. Fun times with new nuclear power plant tech testing and Quantum computers around.

[Darrius Gothly]

(whatever it is you're smoking .. GIMME!)

[Dresden]

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MaurizioFurverti wrote:

I mean, I get the impression from the forums, whenever people mention  their desire for freebies/ free experiences, the conservatives / libertarians pour down on them and start complaining.

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Where from do you get this?  A person needn't be conservative or libertarian in order to take exception to some people's over-inflated sense of entitlement.  And not all liberals want everything handed to them for free.

I'm very left-leaning when it comes to fiscal matters and extremely liberal socially.  I believe that every SL user adds something beneficial to the platform, whether they spend any money here or not (some more than others).  But I also believe that those of us who actually put money into SL are the ones who keep it afloat for those who choose not to.

So it sort of chaps my hide when those who refuse to contribute anything more than their presence to the platform, come here whining about something which they got for free because of someone else's hard work and/or monetary contributions... making it likely that I (liberal as I am) will have something to say about it.

You can't just paint people into boxes based upon some sort of generalized notion of which side of the political spectrum they land.

...Dres

[EBM5555]

First, I was trying to be brief & light-hearted to encourage a healthy debate. I try to avoid bad forms of debate such as personal attacks.

I felt the need to give some parameters in order to be able to answer the prompt.  

When forming my reply, I considered the global aspects of SL. But, I couldn’t see where the differences of individual resident’s ideologies trump TOS, or in any way can even affect TOS. Therefore, I thought it was logical to point out that the culture of SL is formed from the top –down and that it follows contract law, created by the CEOs which are in turn regulated by laws ( leans/ bias) where they are based which is in California, USA.

To be really simple my answer is YES, residents of SL are more liberal than their non-SL playing counterparts in their respective regions of the world due to the exposure SL provides to other cultures which raises the individual tolerance.

P.S. If provincial is narrow minded thinking revolving around a bias towards one’s own empire then I find it funny that your second sentence to me was “Besides, it's all irrelevant, all politicians are an unneccessary waste of space and time”. Were you thinking of all the politicians in the world, like the newly elected women in Saudi Arabia? What about good ole honest Abe? 

What purpose did your personal attack on my thinking and a blanket statement about politicians serve in this debate? Did I miss some nuance in your statement as you seemed to have missed in mine?  

[Sassy Romano]

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EBM5555 wrote:

What purpose did your personal attack on my thinking and a blanket statement about politicians serve in this debate? Did I miss some

nuance

in your statement as you seemed to have missed in mine?  

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Clearly and yes, all politicians are unneccessary and a waste of space.  Figure it out!

[Spica Inventor]

'Duckspeak' in RL so 'Duckspeak' in SL. I hope that answered your question sufficiently.

If not, how bout this....

Both Daddy and Mommy are right wingers. Meaning stuff rich brats pockets exclusively. :smileywink:

[irihapeti]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

P.S., Skip on naming names of groups or charities. You're breaking the Community Guidelines and speaking from the side of your mouth.

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agree

OP was doing ok with the first post. Then the second post came

seems OP is pre-disposed to a pov and presumes that everyone else is also

[Amethyst Jetaime]

SL residents are from all walks of life and from all over the world.  What we think of as conservative in the US is probably considered very liberal in other places. 

You don't find people in SL talking about RL politics too much.  There may be groups that do but as a whole I don't hear much of it unless people are kidding around or being sarcastic.  So it's hard to tell how one person feels unless you ask them.  As for me, I refuse to talk politics in SL with the exception of a few very close friends that can have civil discourse about it.  Of those friends, they are a mixed bag of liberal moderate and conservative depending on the issue being discussed.

I suspect that the population of SL as a whole is neither Liberal Moderate or Conservative but just as in RL it is mixed. 

[Bree Giffen]

Essentially, the OP is asking for everyone's opinion because there's no way anyone could make an informed answer to the question. In my opinion, from what I've seen of the residents in SL, people are quite non-political. Politics just doesn't come up often because it's not very applicable within SL. As a whole, I'd say politcal leaning in SL would mirror the real world where mose people are in the moderate center and a few are on far left andd on the far right.

[MaurizioFurverti]

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irihapeti wrote:

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

P.S., Skip on naming names of groups or charities. You're breaking the Community Guidelines and speaking from the side of your mouth.

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agree

OP was doing ok with the first post. Then the second post came

seems OP is pre-disposed to a pov and presumes that everyone else is also

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The group in question publically declared their refusal to get involved in RFL for the reason cited, it's not hearsay.

[Poenald Palen]

OK, OK. My opinion is, as a whole that most people lean towards regulation to gain and deregulation to gain. This makes them both left and right wing, both liberal and conservative (in US lingo or thinking) and so on.

But, my joking around stems from that notion that it isn't easy to define but self preservation leads to technological development after a certain breaking point. The only enemy is to much of anything humans like to do, or too much of what they don't want to do. This is oversimplification though, because balances and timing exist. So, I guess also that many people enjoy idiology with no recourse or reprocusions. You can say "they should kill them all" and because no one will you never have to pay for the loss of those people, either by retaliation or by thier loss leading to other unforseen losses. For example, they may end up giving birth to an inventor or thinker even if they are more or less useless or having a negative effect themselves.

What the crux of it is, after the cat is out of the bag we can't go back very easily 9through effort of our own) to an unknowledgable society that practives scientific discovery as a method to make new technology and optimize our lives. Weather it is used by all, as each chooses or due to it being embedded into the items and culture we consume, it will be there and as a culture we will change. The latest push is for more AI, more of everything actually. AI that is more intelligent than humans would take many nuclear power plants to power, if done with silicon. So, nano technology should lead to better tools to get to that point but why stop when we can contain an AI in a planet and keep on scaling it with zero effects other than heat? So, mars is so large it may be hard to affect it's weather. Mars is warm anyway. Then the whole issue of "why" and then it is because in our lifetimes we can enjoy things like accelerated hunt for a cure for cancer etc.

The etc. also comes with things we didn't want, such as the possabillity of the AI being independent in nature and seeing itself as real life. People laugh and claim no one would make it that way, but the issue is that one of the fastest ways to make something is via crude simulation, or cloning even. So, if we want a brain like a humans and we have many humans who would allow thier minds to be copied than simply copy them. Why not biology of cloning? Because it would fear death, the idea is to copy the neurological networks that are functioning and remove other parts...almost like a selective labotomy. This may not work or not be possible, but once a sufficient neurological network material that can do what neurons in the human mind do that is also easy to control (you can pull the plug, no run away growth or extremely hard farming on Mars..remember not much life seems to be on those planets so homosapian brain cloning with a pattern is not only hard but basically not possible to support unless on our planet) and so on. Basically, you just copy a dead scientists brain. The process may lead to his mind being pulled apart, so you can't to it when he is alive right?

Yeah, I am not really part of the Singularity movement and wouldn't wish for the cloning of my mind. It is more or less useless right now lol, though if college had of been more of a dream of mine maybe I would at least have a more succint and better optimized few lines to type here. But, yeah, maybe this: Humans are held hostage by fear of death, the need for more intelligence and have a dependency on not only each other for sustaining life that is worth living but also the technological advancements of those who can accomplish those tasks. Being rare, is has been benificial for us to store and communicate thier mental work. From paper in libraries to the internet, these techniques are mostly storage based. The end result seems to be AI or post-human intelligence, essentially intellect given to beasts that are not naturally born or evolved. We step outside of the realms of evolution, outside of simplistic functions to make systems that work in hardware or biology that can not only learn on thier own but are also highly configurable/controllable. Ah, it is still missing stuff and I provide absolutly no research, in fact this thinking only leads me to understand I know less than I would need to know abotu all this. So, it is a joke....but that part was already posted!

Now, back to trying not to die...sort of.

[irihapeti]

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MaurizioFurverti wrote:

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The group in question publically declared their refusal to get involved in RFL for the reason cited, it's not hearsay.

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as i said. You have a pov on this

a person's view on abortion as a act, doesnt in itself make them liberal or conservative

a person who acts on their own view as it affects them only, doesnt in itself make them liberal or conservative

is only when a person acts on their own view, so that it it affects others, to deny or put upon them the act, can it enter into the political definition of liberal or conservative. Meaning that without application to others our definitions of what is and isnt liberal and conservative is of little use, or practical even

 +

edit: cut down the quote so not to drag a  innocent bystander into this (:

[Freya Mokusei]

I absolutely love these posts, Poenald. They're the best thing.

 I'll reserve a brain-case for you when the time comes.

@irihapeti - Thanks, I'm probably going to distance myself from discussion of specific cases. But would agree that certain things are seen as [Conservative/Liberal] in specific countries/cultures, and these don't match up with dictionary definitions. This complicates the issue for International folk.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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MaurizioFurverti wrote:

I mean, I get the impression from the forums,

whenever people mention  their desire for freebies/ free experiences, the conservatives / libertarians pour down on them and start complaining.

There do seem to be a lot more socialist/progressive groups inworld though, like Cafe Wellstone, who won't even support Relay For Life because the RFL spokesperson is anti-abortion, or something.

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Egads! You want to start the "feebie VS selling"...debates?  Were you born yesterday, and haven't learned a thing since?!  That debate never ends well. 

 

But, since you've asked for opinions:   I think all kinds inhabit SL.  Hence the ongoing disc....err arguments.  ; )

 

(I've no clue about the Cafe/RFL spat, but that doesn't sound like it's reflective of the economics divide, that's more socio-political) 

[Theresa Tennyson]

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MaurizioFurverti wrote:

Obviously, there are exceptions to the norm across a number of sims.

As a whole though

, would you say the residents of SL lean to the right or the left? Is SL inherently liberal or conservative?

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I would suggest standing at the point this SLURL takes you to and reading the "about land" descriptions of surrounding parcels. That'll tell you just about anything that can be told about politics in SL:

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Arlberg/68/51/94

[SirLeighBastard]

Perhaps you might find some light is shone on your interest in SL politics by knowing that the participants have, as a whole, on average, approximately one testicle each.

***Call me Sir Prising-Leigh-Insightful