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Ofelia Laval

Banning RedZone from Residential land?

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As of yesterday I have prohibited the use of Redzone, Quickware Alts or any system or device that uses alt matching metrics on any of of my rental sims. Reaction from my renters rather enthusuastic on this policy change.

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So, it links everyone disregarding whether they are copybotters/griefers or NOT. That alone there is already a huge failure of the system. If it is such a great TOOL as the users of this device claim that it is then it should only be harvesting and linking accounts of copybotter/griefers and leave everyone else alone.

If it cannot leave everyone else's accounts alone then you are not really after copybotters nor griefers. Seriously, having the power or ability to know other people's alternate accounts is very tempting. I would be lying if I say it's not.

In the end, it's all about spying on other people by knowing who their alternate accounts are and the power that information can and/or possibly give them. It was never about copybotting nor griefing.

The creator of RedZone even said that, "Copybots are not as common as you think if you do more research." Think about it. ;)

Edit: Typos (Lots of them, LOL)

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Kabalyero, the fact is, zFire sold his product based on **bleep**, Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. He sold it under the pretense of being a security device, and it is to a limited extent. But, what really got people hooked was the ability to see other people's alts. Others would look at it and say, "OMG, I've GOT to have that." It instills a false sense of being better than other residents because now they know something about them that they wish not to know.

This can be abused is so many ways. zFire, himself, has said that he doesn't vet his customers with his device. He didn't care who had it as long as they were paying him $3,999L for it.. That's all he cared about.

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Eva Ryan wrote:

How are the letters F, U, and D being ***bleep*** out on my post. Who makes up these banned words?

The fear of offending the teens is extremely large.

 

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Moana Paradise rentals
+++misc info about pricing+++
 You MAY use a security orb IN YOUR SKYBOX, as long as it is set properly. Your skybox is a 20x20, your orb is NOT allowed to scan a 50M or above scan range. this is to protect yourself as well as other residents. We do NOT allow the use of Redzone or anything that Alt detects. If you are caught using such a program or item, you will be asked ot remove it. if you do NOT remove it, we WILL. If you put it back out after it is taken down, you will be kicked with no refund and banned from the islands. We are sorry, but we take our visitors security and privacy very seriously, and redzone violates everyone's privacy.

Now, if you are still reading at this point, Welcome to Moana!

 

my blurb in my rental spots.

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RedZone and any other similar device of any kind are banned entirely and completely from Cursed (almost completely residential), and from Dark Eternity and Event Horizon(not residential) next door.  That ban will never be lifted.

 

-AK

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Kabalyero, It's unfortunant; but, that can't be done anymore. Soft Linden has forced the reprogramming of the RedZone alt detector to not display alts. Of course, this hasn't stopped him from attempting to circumvent the TOS. Not only that; but, Soft Linden has blacklisted QuickWare Alts Pro (another alt detecting device) as outlined in the JIRA post. https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-24746?

Whether you realize it or not; this battle for our privacy is being waged and coordinated on several fronts, to include third party forums (on both sides), blogs, inworld groups, the JIRAs, and the official Forums (though, that's limited at best).

I suggest you read up in one of the more popular third party forums (which will remain nameless as it may constitue advertising) for more information. All that needs to be done is too Google RedZone SL to find what you're looking for... and more.

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To put it quite simply I do not even allow the use of security orbs much less anything like redzone. If a tenant has a problem and it warrants it I have a "special" role set up to grant them eject and ban rights. So far in the past 2 years I have needed to grant only one person those rights.

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Selene, in my time in SL, a little over 5 years, I've had little trouble with other residents. Sure, there was the occasional stalker, and a few griefers. However, I handled it, and handled it well without resorting to security or alt-exposing devices. It takes using your brain and being level-headed and using the tools provided for you. Ban, Mute, and AR's work well, and if all else fails, you can always log off.

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My partner and I own well over a SIM. We definately do not use or allow Red Zone and have the green Zone decctors all around for people to get.  We have a Mall, Shopping areas, Clubs, residential areas and interactive areas.  I am currently having a problem with a neighbor who has her two Red Zone bots set for SIm wide, when she does not own the whole SIM, and is not listening about setting it for her parcel.  These two Red Zone Bots fly through where I am trying to rent houses, at the rate of once a minute.  I have parcel music off and set object entry to only group, yet they still fly through my property at once a minute.  This has become a problem trying to rent  houses on my property. (I did send an AR, we will see what happens)

My opinion of Red Zone- I personally know they gave someone names of another person's ALTS, and it was for personal reasons, nothing to do with copy bot.  Their database has questionable security and their employees aparantly none, as they give out ALT's.  I understand LL has made it so they cannot collect alt names recently, so it is said anyway, now, but although better late than never, Red Zone's database is absolutely enourmous and already has info on ALTS, and a lot more info as well. My husband does security for the Gov.  I am not blowing smoke here.  Red Zone is a stalkers dream come true.

Just a thought, how about banning BOTS all together?  Reasons stated by those who are for bots are ridiculous, they can use an ALT.  hmmm, bots make the number count of the amount of people on SL rise by the thousands, maybe that is the reason LL does not care?  ONly thing I ever saw them do abolut it was go after campers and take camping pads out.   idk

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Starry Questi wrote:

My partner and I own well over a SIM. We definately do not use or allow Red Zone and have the green Zone decctors all around for people to get.  We have a Mall, Shopping areas, Clubs, residential areas and interactive areas.  I am currently having a problem with a neighbor who has her two Red Zone bots set for SIm wide, when she does not own the whole SIM, and is not listening about setting it for her parcel.  These two Red Zone Bots fly through where I am trying to rent houses, at the rate of once a minute.  I have parcel music off and set object entry to only group, yet they still fly through my property at once a minute.  This has become a problem trying to rent  houses on my property. (I did send an AR, we will see what happens)

My opinion of Red Zone- I personally know they gave someone names of another person's ALTS, and it was for personal reasons, nothing to do with copy bot.  Their database has questionable security and their employees aparantly none, as they give out ALT's.  I understand LL has made it so they cannot collect alt names recently, so it is said anyway, now, but although better late than never, Red Zone's database is absolutely enourmous and already has info on ALTS, and a lot more info as well. My husband does security for the Gov.  I am not blowing smoke here.  Red Zone is a stalkers dream come true.

Just a thought, how about banning BOTS all together?  Reasons stated by those who are for bots are ridiculous, they can use an ALT.  hmmm, bots make the number count of the amount of people on SL rise by the thousands, maybe that is the reason LL does not care?  ONly thing I ever saw them do abolut it was go after campers and take camping pads out.   idk

 

Hi, Starry.   Just to clarify, RedZone continues to gather alt data.   Indeed, it was never interrupted by anything other than the maker's server going down a couple of times.  All that LL has prohibited thus far is the revelation of that alt data via an inworld object.   The maker has already threatened to take the database offline and offer it on a subscription basis.

Bots would be difficult to ban, since they are just avatars being run by a computer rather than a human operating a computer.   There are a few areas where they are very useful,  especially in the area of group invitations which are clumsy to handle via the scripting language.   There are also companies that run them to gather economic data such as "busiest sims", etc.  One could even argue that we need a bot net programmed to look for URL's that are attempting to violate privacy, since the RedZone folks and their competition are already experimenting with ways of masking the URL that gathers your data as an innocent address.  As for bots running up the numbers, they are SUPPOSED to be identified as bots via the account's web page so that they don't run up the numbers.   How diligent are folks about that?   Well, there are penalties for not doing so, so at least the Lab is doing more than just suggesting it's a "good idea".  

Those RedZone "bots" aren't real bots, anyway -- they're just objects being rezzed inworld, much like any "full sim scanner" would use, but with much different purposes, of course.

 

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Gina Chrome wrote:

It find it very interesting how people get so worked up over this. I have read all the different rantings that have been posted and there is always that nasty sarcastic tone to them. Unfortunately, it makes me discredit the post. I would also like to point out that there is really no need to act this way. I am the first to admit that maybe I need to look at the full capabilities or malice of the system. I would like to be educated on the system before being crucified for using it. I am also not the only sim or business owner to use this system. There has been at least 4000+ systems sold. Hmmm... Somebody must also be using it besides me.

I won't use Red Zone and understand the frustration about it but I certainly don't feel you should be hung, drawn and quartered for using it either.  Enough has been said about what it does and does not do - I am profoundly disgusted I have been scanned against my will by others and entered into the database but I think your approach is polite and pragmatic.  Certainly undeserving of a preach speech. It is for you to make your own, educated, decision.

 

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I refuse to crucify all who use it. as I know several people who DID use it, and took it down when they were told EVERYTHIGN it does. Including the database that is unsecured that scans ALL people. and not just for copybots. Many many have taken it down, and don't believe the 22K users that has been bandied around. I have hardly come across rz sims in my wide travels.

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Josephina Bonetto wrote:

 

I won't use Red Zone and understand the frustration about it but I certainly don't feel you should be hung, drawn and quartered for using it either.  Enough has been said about what it does and does not do - I am profoundly disgusted I have been scanned against my will by others and entered into the database but I think your approach is polite and pragmatic.  Certainly undeserving of a preach speech. It is for you to make your own, educated, decision.

 

 

I'm certainly going to be able to forgive someone who has used it, but has, when given the appropriate information, removed it.

I am frankly less charitably inclined toward someone who continues to use it even after it has been made clear to him or her that it is a violation of the privacy rights of others.

Suggesting that its employment should, in the face of the evidence of the harm it can cause, be left to the individual user's decision is a bit like saying that the wisdom of firing a gun in a crowded place should be left to the discretion of the gun-owner.

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Honestly those who complain usualy have something to hide or fear they are being stalked etc. Every single time you do anything someone can harvest your ip address. The loudest whiner about people using redzone I have seen is an Admitted Copy botter. I bought and put in redzone cause I had a neighbor who was copybotting all my builds... and contacting the lindens was useless... They admitted he was copybotting... but they said there was nothing they could do about it. So tell me oh haters of redzone.... and I use it only on my sim I build upon.. not sell upon... How else am I supposed to protect my builds since Linden Labs and their employees wont help us? I did move. Also... just a fyi... the copy botter complained to the Lindens because I had done the tortured alpha prim around my building platform/box, and the Lindens forced me to remove it. Aparently its against the tos to try and block perv camming.

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Dak Deed wrote:

Honestly those who complain usualy have something to hide or fear they are being stalked etc. Every single time you do anything someone can harvest your ip address. The loudest whiner about people using redzone I have seen is an Admitted Copy botter. I bought and put in redzone cause I had a neighbor who was copybotting all my builds... and contacting the lindens was useless... They admitted he was copybotting... but they said there was nothing they could do about it. So tell me oh haters of redzone.... and I use it only on my sim I build upon.. not sell upon... How else am I supposed to protect my builds since Linden Labs and their employees wont help us? I did move. Also... just a fyi... the copy botter complained to the Lindens because I had done the tortured alpha prim around my building platform/box, and the Lindens forced me to remove it. Aparently its against the tos to try and block perv camming.

DMCA! That's what it's for, that's exactly what it's for and it has far more powers than Redzone ever will.

 

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Dak Deed wrote:

Honestly those who complain usualy have something to hide or fear they are being stalked etc. Every single time you do anything someone can harvest your ip address. The loudest whiner about people using redzone I have seen is an Admitted Copy botter. I bought and put in redzone cause I had a neighbor who was copybotting all my builds... and contacting the lindens was useless... They admitted he was copybotting... but they said there was nothing they could do about it. So tell me oh haters of redzone.... and I use it only on my sim I build upon.. not sell upon... How else am I supposed to protect my builds since Linden Labs and their employees wont help us? I did move. Also... just a fyi... the copy botter complained to the Lindens because I had done the tortured alpha prim around my building platform/box, and the Lindens forced me to remove it. Aparently its against the tos to try and block perv camming.

 

Dak, RedZone doesn't protect your builds from copybotters, despite what the advertising for it claimed (that was just to get you to part with L$4k for some false hope).  It especially doesn't protect you against a neighbour, as they don't have to be on your land to copybot.  As far as the tortured alpha prim goes, that won't block camming anyway, as it's trivial to just derender the blocking prim, but if LL forced you to remove it there must have been some sort of other issue, such as the bounding box for it being well outside your land.

As Ciaran has already pointed out, following the procedures provided by the DMCA is your only option.  That means following up with RL legal action beyond the DMCA takedown, if need be.  Don't bother telling us that you can't afford a lawyer, that's not relevant, and you just need to find a lawyer that will work on contingency.  If the DMCA complaint meets certain criteria, it could be well worth their while (DMCA has provisions for some quite large damages, depending on circumstances).  If you think the RL legal process is just too much hassle, that's up to you, but it's your only option if the copybotter persists after takedown.

At this stage, unless you want to block a large number of legitimate people who have media disabled because they are not willing to sacrifice their privacy for your false peace of mind, RedZone is almost entirely worthless for you.  I personally abhor the copybots, but right behind them in "scum of SL that should be removed urgently" is RedZone and any similar device (not the people who have been conned into buying it for false hope, because they didn't understand the serious invasion of privacy, but the system itself).

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I have 50-some merchant renters in my Market, and the reaction to a change of rental rules banning all IP loggers such as Redzone and CDS, etc., was enthusiastically positive.

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Gina Chrome wrote:

I do not hide the fact that I use RedZone on my main sim. I made it public on their website.  And if you choose not to step foot on my sim, that is up to you. I use it as a protection for my residents. I only use it on my main sim and actually it is only covering my main office. But again, you don't have to rent from us. I cannot force anyone to rent from us.And again, I do not care about people's alts. Unfortunately, most people that scream about RedZone are people that have alts. At least from what I see.

The arguement that people share ip addresses is something I am concerned with and seems to be a valid arguement.

 

Quick question do you also make it known in-world via the parcel name or description or have the unit set to show in search? If not then you are still hiding the fact you use the system from the majority of people who will visit your sim. A sign on the parcel saying we use redzone security system does no good because by the time someone can read that it's already too late for them and their ip address. Also Redzone isn't good for banning griefers or copybotters or their supposed alts because those people know how to exploit and get around such systems.

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Actually Maximillon, as I stated in a later post, we have banned RedZone and all products like RedZone. It is clearly stated in our covenant now.

 

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