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Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


<snip>

If the license is full perm, you do have the right to take a copy out-world, but not the ability. LL is not obligated to provide that ability, they're the service provider. I think your legal beef would be with the creator of the full perm item, for not providing an out-world copy. This particular area is fuzzy to me, as I don't think there's a fully fleshed out bit of legal boilerplate to describe just what "full perm" means outside SL.

Nope.

2.4 You grant certain Content licenses to other users by submitting your Content to publicly accessible areas of the Service.

"You agree that by uploading, publishing, or submitting any Content to any publicly accessible areas of the Service, you hereby grant other users of that aspect of the Service a non-exclusive license to access the User Content through the Service, and to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content Inworld or otherwise on the Service solely as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service under these Terms of Service. This license is referred to as the "User Content License," and the Content being licensed is referred to as "User Content." "Publicly accessible" areas of the Service are those areas that are accessible to other users of that aspect of the Service."

 

There is nothing in their that says creators grant users the right to take content out side of SL with the exception of the Snapshot and Machinama policy.

To take something out you'd have to get special permission from the owner.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


<snip>

If the license is full perm, you do have the right to take a copy out-world, but not the ability. LL is not obligated to provide that ability, they're the service provider. I think your legal beef would be with the creator of the full perm item, for not providing an out-world copy. This particular area is fuzzy to me, as I don't think there's a fully fleshed out bit of legal boilerplate to describe just what "full perm" means outside SL.

Nope.

2.4 You grant certain Content licenses to other users by submitting your Content to publicly accessible areas of the Service.

"You agree that by uploading, publishing, or submitting any Content to any publicly accessible areas of the Service, you hereby grant other users of that aspect of the Service a non-exclusive license to access the User Content through the Service, and to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content Inworld or otherwise on the Service solely as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service under these Terms of Service. This license is referred to as the "User Content License," and the Content being licensed is referred to as "User Content." "Publicly accessible" areas of the Service are those areas that are accessible to other users of that aspect of the Service."

 

There is nothing in their that says creators grant users the right to take content out side of SL with the exception of the Snapshot and Machinama policy.

To take something out you'd have to get special permission from the owner.

Okay then, I got that backwards. If you have a full perm texture, you have the ability (as I recall, I've never done it), but not the right to take it out-world, unless you get that from the creator. And some creators do give that right. Either way, if someone wants to take content out-world, it's not LL who's responsible for allowing it. Again, they're the service provider. The content providers are (for the most part)... us.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:


<snip>

If the license is full perm, you do have the right to take a copy out-world, but not the ability. LL is not obligated to provide that ability, they're the service provider. I think your legal beef would be with the creator of the full perm item, for not providing an out-world copy. This particular area is fuzzy to me, as I don't think there's a fully fleshed out bit of legal boilerplate to describe just what "full perm" means outside SL.

Nope.

2.4 You grant certain Content licenses to other users by submitting your Content to publicly accessible areas of the Service.

"You agree that by uploading, publishing, or submitting any Content to any publicly accessible areas of the Service, you hereby grant other users of that aspect of the Service a non-exclusive license to access the User Content through the Service, and to use, reproduce, distribute, prepare derivative works of, display, and perform the Content Inworld or otherwise on the Service solely as permitted by you through your interactions with the Service under these Terms of Service. This license is referred to as the "User Content License," and the Content being licensed is referred to as "User Content." "Publicly accessible" areas of the Service are those areas that are accessible to other users of that aspect of the Service."

 

There is nothing in their that says creators grant users the right to take content out side of SL with the exception of the Snapshot and Machinama policy.

To take something out you'd have to get special permission from the owner.

Okay then, I got that backwards. If you have a full perm texture, you have the ability (as I recall, I've never done it), but not the right to take it out-world, unless you get that from the creator. And some creators do give that right. Either way, if someone wants to take content out-world, it's not LL who's responsible for allowing it. Again, they're the service provider. The content providers are (for the most part)... us.

Right. 

Which is also why you see with texture packs and similar notecards explaining exactly what can and can't be done with them. 

Many vehicles (particularly planes and helicopters) come with templates so you can do your own custom paint jobs.  You need to be able to export them so you can work with them.

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While moving ahead and improving SL experience is in the interest of all SL users introducing a completely new platform is something entirely different. Imagine microsoft bringing out a windows that is not backwards compatible would it still be what it is today ?.

If Linden Lab is expecting that all users will move from SL to SL2 within a matter of months when it becomes available then maybe there is a big surprise on the horizon. Sl is full of highly motivated and passionate people, a tightly nit community who spend a lot of time and money in and on their virtual world.

Looks like your about to take it all away from them and just maybe Linden Lab doesnt actually know why SL is still working after all this time where others failed so miserably.

What it means for me ? No store, No land, No customers, No inventory and nowhere to go. 

Sounds a lot like Blue Mars to me.

 

Cheers,

Des Beaumont

 

 

 

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I have a different view. Perhaps LL doesn't expect the majority of SL users to migrate to SL2 within a few months, but I do. I don't necessarily expect the majority to only use SL2, although they may, but I do expect those who don't migrate completely to use both systems for some time and eventually finish up exclusively in SL2..

That's just what I imagine will happen, of course, and imagine is all any of us can do.

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Although I think the majority of SL users will try SL2 within a few months of its introduction, I suspect it will be several years before it's a fit place to spend much time. That's not particularly because it lacks user generated content (everybody's precious inventories, etc.) but because there's just an incredible amount of platform functionality needed to approximate the features of current SL. They'll start with a subset, of course, and maybe it will be enough to keep enough people interested long enough to be viable.

But that's not a sure thing. The whole thing may collapse, just as completely as Rod Humble's various ventures into other games, leaving LL with nothing but good ol' SL "classic" to fall back on. That, and another whole sheaf of calendar pages to book as sunk opportunity cost.

By that time, though, the current wave of VR hype will have waned, Facebook and the others gone out with the falling tide, so once again LL may survive even this.

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Des Beaumont wrote:

While moving ahead and improving SL experience is in the interest of all SL users introducing a completely new platform is something entirely different. Imagine microsoft bringing out a windows that is not backwards compatible would it still be what it is today ?.

 

 

Actually Windows became "what it is today" because of a very similar process to what Linden Lab will be doing. Windows and MS-DOS existed for years in parallel - most DOS games ran badly under Windows, and Windows programs couldn't run under straight-up MS-DOS at all. Also Microsoft leveraged their near-monopoly of the PC-compatible operating system market to put Windows on every PC that shipped with MS-DOS whether the buyer wanted it or not.

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Although I think the majority of SL users will
try
SL2 within a few months of its introduction, I suspect it will be several
years
before it's a fit place to spend much time. That's not particularly because it lacks user generated content (everybody's precious inventories, etc.) but because there's just an incredible amount of platform functionality needed to approximate the features of current SL. They'll start with a subset, of course, and maybe it will be enough to keep enough people interested long enough to be viable.


Bingo!

I swear, I think some people put cotton balls in their ears. Over, and Over, and over again, LL has said that the New World will not be SL2. It will not have all the functionality. Even 5 years from today, it will not have all SL's functionality. For the life of me, I can't understand why, or even how, people think the New World will be SL2. It's not even possible.

Beta will start next year. Nothing will work right. 6 month later, we might have avatars working properly and some basic standards for them. 1 year after, we might have some functionality that resembles SL. It will likely take 2 years, just to get the whole world functioning in any kind of viable way.

I find it hilarious that people think the doors will open and anything will work, or it will be functional in the least. That is truly ridiculous. People who think this must have the impression that Lindens are magicians.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:

Although I think the majority of SL users will
try
SL2 within a few months of its introduction, I suspect it will be several
years
before it's a fit place to spend much time. That's not particularly because it lacks user generated content (everybody's precious inventories, etc.) but because there's just an incredible amount of platform functionality needed to approximate the features of current SL. They'll start with a subset, of course, and maybe it will be enough to keep enough people interested long enough to be viable.


Bingo!

I swear, I think some people put cotton balls in their ears. Over, and Over, and over again,
LL has said that the New World will not be SL2. It will not have all the functionality.
Even 5 years from today, it will not have all SL's functionality. For the life of me, I can't understand why, or even how, people think the New World will be SL2. It's not even possible.

Beta will start next year. Nothing will work right. 6 month later, we might have avatars working properly and some basic standards for them. 1 year after, we might have some functionality that resembles SL. It will likely take 2 years, just to get the whole world functioning in any kind of viable way.

I find it hilarious that people think the doors will open and anything will work, or it will be functional in the least. That is truly ridiculous. People who think this must have the impression that Lindens are magicians.

These (that I have highlighted) are really two different things.

That the "New World will not be SL2" I think really refers to the shape of the World and the Business Model.  Will we have Continents as we know them?  It's hard for me to fathom a VR without them but maybe someone will come up with an idea.  Could we have Planets and something that approximates "Outer Space?"

What will the Business Model be?  Will there even be Estates or will LL do it all?  People are inferring that when Ebbe said "Creator Centric" that it means LL wants more of their Income from Merchant to User transactions.  But that is not written in stone.

On functionality, that really is technical issues. Starting out with the Beta there are certainly bound to be rough edges.  A big issue will be how things scale.  But on the other hand they already know many of the pitfalls.   There are already years and years of knowledge that has been gained that can be applied.  A simple example would be (Social) Groups and Chat.  They know those can not be tied to land management.  There is better Hardware and Programming available now that wasn't there when SL started.  So five years from now we could actually have more functionality.

If they get it right there could be a lot more people who will bite the bullet on their precious inventory and make the jump.  People will want to move.

But last of all, what makes us think that we are their target audience?  Certainly they'd like our business.  But really I think the Next Generation Platform is going to be targeted at the next generation of Users.

But I could be overly optimistic here.

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Perrie Juran wrote:

What will the Business Model be?  Will there even be Estates or will LL do it all?  People are inferring that when Ebbe said "Creator Centric" that it means LL wants more of their Income from Merchant to User transactions.  But that is not written in stone.


My take on that "creator centric" statement is that Ebbe wants to co-opt creators to craft experiences, not just things. I expect the underpinnings of the next LL VR will be more friendly to the creation of games in-world, and allow better curation of environments by their creators. I am not at all game savvy, but I think it would be a mistake for a next generation world to ignore what appears to be an appreciation by the potential user base for guidance and goals.

People love stories. I think Ebbe and the Lindens are hoping to make a better tool for their creation.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

What will the Business Model be?  Will there even be Estates or will LL do it all?  People are inferring that when Ebbe said "Creator Centric" that it means LL wants more of their Income from Merchant to User transactions.  But that is not written in stone.


My take on that "creator centric" statement is that Ebbe wants to co-opt creators to craft experiences, not just things. I expect the underpinnings of the next LL VR will be more friendly to the creation of games in-world, and allow better curation of environments by their creators. I am not at all game savvy, but I think it would be a mistake for a next generation world to ignore what appears to be an appreciation by the potential user base for guidance and goals.

People love stories. I think Ebbe and the Lindens
are hoping to make a better tool for their creation.

One thing going on now is the Experience Tools project.  In some ways this could be looked at as a "proof of concept" test that could be applied to the next platform.

Personally I suspect some projects that are or aren't getting approved is being based at least in part on whether it could be useful in the next platform.  Why waste money on things that can't be used there?

But I could be wrong about this though it does make sense to me.

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We refer to the new world as SL2 for want of something better. Not because we think it will be SL revisited.

Personally, I do think it will look similar to SL but none of us have any idea what LL have in mind for it.

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Perrie Juran wrote:



What will the Business Model be?  Will there even be Estates or will LL do it all?  People are inferring that when Ebbe said "Creator Centric" that it means LL wants more of their Income from Merchant to User transactions.  But that is not written in stone.

On functionality, that really is technical issues. Starting out with the Beta there are certainly bound to be rough edges.  A big issue will be how things scale.  But on the other hand they already know many of the pitfalls.   There are already years and years of knowledge that has been gained that can be applied.  A simple example would be (Social) Groups and Chat.  They know those can not be tied to land management.  There is better Hardware and Programming available now that wasn't there when SL started.  So five years from now we could actually have more functionality.


Well, I'm against taxing the merchants more. It's counter productive. What SL has always lacked, was a mass media system. Over the years, there have been a crap load of media generated for SL. If LL had centeralized all of this into one system, they could have sold air time, or commercial time on their network. I guess what I'm saying is that LL should develop a network broadcasting system. We shouldn't be leaving SL to see interviews, sporting events and so on. I know they thought that independent networks would form, and they did, but IMHO, the is also a big part of marketing the platform. From a merchants standpoint, we have always lacked any affective way to advertise. The few we do get, are wonky, at best. Any merchant would pay for a decent way to advertise products.

Yeah, there are years and years of knowledge, but LL is not a person that learns more over time. LL is a collection of people that have changed from year to year, with only a small team being around for any large amount of time. What these people learned, if they did learn anything, is being accessed by other companies now. To me, this is why SL hasn't moved much in the last 5 years. Every couple of years, there's a new leader, relearning from the start again. It would be different if Phillip stayed the capt the whole time. I see this corporation idea that you can just throw whomever into the role and nothing will go wrong, just doesn't make any sense to me. WTF is 2 years. These people act like 2 years is a long time. 2 years, to me, is barely warming up. This is why I'm torn about the New World.

 

What I want to see is how the code language works. When I see that, I'll breathe a bit easier. I want a see a game world. Where anyone can create their own game in minutes. I know there are lots of groups in SL that thought this was a bad idea, but I think these are the same people that complained when mesh came. They are people that have no idea what they are talking about. Making a platform more game friendly doesn't affect anyone that doesn't want to play a game. To be upset about it, is to be upset about nothing. I can hear some saying now, "oh no, my world will change", and my answer is that change is the only constant.

1 of the hottest things in compositing things together today in 3D, is using NODES. I'd like to see this used for everything in the New World. From animation, to textures(materials), to scripting. Unity's Mecanim Animation system uses Nodes. It rocks. Each Node is an action state, and this matches up with coding to trigger you walking, jumping or whatever. There are even Unity packages that give you a Node system to design the brains of your AI, or basic game logic. Blender uses a Node system for materials in Blender. I've also seen a little about the game engine that seems to use all Nodes for everything. Microsoft's Sparks Project uses something like nodes for their coding language.

LL! Give us NODES!!

AnimationController.jpg

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Perrie Juran wrote:

But last of all, what makes us think that we are their target audience?  Certainly they'd like our business.  But really I think the Next Generation Platform is going to be targeted at the next generation of Users.

 We aren't the target audience. We scare people away. LL has seen how big a market there is of people like us and they are not satisfied. They will try something else. Don't be surprised if SL2 doesn't even appeal to us. That might be the plan.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:



Well, I'm against taxing the merchants more. It's counter productive. What SL has always lacked, was a mass media system. Over the years, there have been a crap load of media generated for SL. If LL had centeralized all of this into one system, they could have sold air time, or commercial time on their network. I guess what I'm saying is that LL should develop a network broadcasting system. We shouldn't be leaving SL to see interviews, sporting events and so on. I know they thought that independent networks would form, and they did, but IMHO, the is also a big part of marketing the platform. From a merchants standpoint, we have always lacked any affective way to advertise. The few we do get, are wonky, at best. Any merchant would pay for a decent way to advertise products.


Advertising on a mass-media system? You'd build a new, virtual world on a financial model that's rapidly becoming obsolete in the existing real world? Interesting choice...

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:



Advertising on a mass-media system? You'd build a new, virtual world on a financial model that's rapidly becoming obsolete in the existing real world? Interesting choice...

The real world model is much different than a virtual world model. As I eluded to, content was all over the place and there was not 1 source for all of us to goto to find SL videos or things going on. We had lots of independent creators doing different things, but few SL residents even knew of these things. Metanomics was a great show, but who even knew about it? LL could have easily capitalized on all of this and gave everyone 1 source to see all their SL video content. Heck, even blogs. There are hundreds of SL blogs. I have no clue how to even find them, outside of the few I know of.

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Anya Ristow wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

But last of all, what makes us think that we are their target audience?  Certainly they'd like our business.  But really I think the Next Generation Platform is going to be targeted at the next generation of Users.

 We aren't the target audience. We scare people away. LL has seen how big a market there is of people like us and they are not satisfied. They will try something else. Don't be surprised if SL2 doesn't even appeal to us. That might be the plan.

I will not be at all suprised if The Thing After SL doesn't appeal to me. I will also not be surprised if there is nothing after SL.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Theresa Tennyson wrote:



Advertising on a mass-media system? You'd build a new, virtual world on a financial model that's rapidly becoming obsolete in the existing real world? Interesting choice...

The real world model is much different than a virtual world model. As I eluded to, content was all over the place and there was not 1 source for all of us to goto to find SL videos or things going on. We had lots of independent creators doing different things, but few SL residents even knew of these things. Metanomics was a great show, but who even knew about it? LL could have easily capitalized on all of this and gave everyone 1 source to see all their SL video content. Heck, even blogs. There are hundreds of SL blogs. I have no clue how to even find them, outside of the few I know of.

Most businesses that rely on advertising revenue for big-ticket fixed costs such as paid employees and owned hardware/physical space are in serious trouble today because the average information consumer doesn't care for advertising and will avoid it given a choice, and in the digital world there ARE choices. Advertising is only worth large real-world sums if its on something with a captive audience willing to tolerate it and not having other choices - for example, live sporting events. I don't see a way of supporting something the size of SL through advertising because the barriers to creating content are so low that the commercial-carrying channels can be easily bypassed and any given "event" wouldn't be compelling and irreplaceable. Exactly how much much real-world currency would you be willing to spend to reach people watching an interview with someone in a rabbit costume sitting in his parents' basement?

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:



What will the Business Model be?  Will there even be Estates or will LL do it all?  People are inferring that when Ebbe said "Creator Centric" that it means LL wants more of their Income from Merchant to User transactions.  But that is not written in stone.

On functionality, that really is technical issues. Starting out with the Beta there are certainly bound to be rough edges.  A big issue will be how things scale.  But on the other hand they already know many of the pitfalls.   There are already years and years of knowledge that has been gained that can be applied.  A simple example would be (Social) Groups and Chat.  They know those can not be tied to land management.  There is better Hardware and Programming available now that wasn't there when SL started.  So five years from now we could actually have more functionality.


Well, I'm against taxing the merchants more. It's counter productive. What SL has always lacked, was a mass media system. Over the years, there have been a crap load of media generated for SL. If LL had centeralized all of this into one system, they could have sold air time, or commercial time on their network. I guess what I'm saying is that LL should develop a network broadcasting system. We shouldn't be leaving SL to see interviews, sporting events and so on. I know they thought that independent networks would form, and they did, but IMHO, the is also a big part of marketing the platform. From a merchants standpoint, we have always lacked any affective way to advertise. The few we do get, are wonky, at best. Any merchant would pay for a decent way to advertise products.


How much time do you think people really spend in SL watching Media?  I know that people do but honestly I'd think that would compose a very small fraction of all the user hours spent in SL.  Honestly, the last thing I want to see when I log in is Advertising.  And add to that how much LL would need to charge for it to be profitable. 

I agree, it is not always easy to find all the SL centric Media and Blogs, etc, etc.  I'm constantly finding new things.  But much of it I read or view when I can't get In World.  Sure. LL could provide the hosting services but how much would the content providers be willing to pay and when you consider how many "free" sites there are I doubt they could sell enough to make it worth the time.  A paid account on WordPress is only $5.99 a month.   How many people do you really think Blog about SL? 

 


Medhue Simoni wrote:


Yeah, there are years and years of knowledge, but LL is not a person that learns more over time. LL is a collection of people that have changed from year to year, with only a small team being around for any large amount of time. What these people learned, if they did learn anything, is being accessed by other companies now. To me, this is why SL hasn't moved much in the last 5 years. Every couple of years, there's a new leader, relearning from the start again. It would be different if Phillip stayed the capt the whole time. I see this corporation idea that you can just throw whomever into the role and nothing will go wrong, just doesn't make any sense to me. WTF is 2 years. These people act like 2 years is a long time. 2 years, to me, is barely warming up. This is why I'm torn about the New World.

 


I agree, LL is not a person.  But what we do have now is a person at the helm who appears to be in this for the long haul.  A person who has been taking the time to look around and see what is actually going on.  He hasn't been afraid to interact with us.  He appears to me, at least for now, to be the right person for the job.  He is very different than his predecessors.

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:



Most businesses that rely on advertising revenue for big-ticket fixed costs such as paid employees and owned hardware/physical space are in serious trouble today because the average information consumer doesn't care for advertising and will avoid it given a choice, and in the digital world there ARE choices. Advertising is only worth large real-world sums if its on something with a captive audience willing to tolerate it and not having other choices - for example, live sporting events. I don't see a way of supporting something the size of SL through advertising because the barriers to creating content are so low that the commercial-carrying channels can be easily bypassed and any given "event" wouldn't be compelling and irreplaceable. Exactly how much much real-world currency would you be willing to spend to reach people watching an interview with someone in a rabbit costume sitting in his parents' basement?

Well, you are making a bunch of assumptions that you can't really make. At no point did I imply this would be LL's only revenue. As a business, you want as many revenue sources as possible. SL mass media would only be 1, and itself would have many different sources. This is why I called it mass media.

Basically, in my mind, the idea started when I was wanting to advertise. LL has almost nothing, and we actually had more areas to advertise when I first started. LL fumbled it all tho, never really making anything that worked even in the slightest. At the same time tho, we had all these SL TV shows going on, but they were all over the place. Let's not forget about all the blogs. LL tried something with our profiles, but again it just doesn't go far enough.

What I'm saying is that LL should have just collected all the SL media that we were all creating, and centralized it. Maybe you would have to pay a little to have access and post things. Videos would be handled by Youtube, but SL would collect the videos and play them in a feed that acts like a channel. So, if you like animation, then you goto the animation channel, and you watch that feed. If you like fashion, then you watch that feed. You can watch it in SL, where more people would freely promote the SL TV channels, or you could watch them from SL's website. Blogs would all be done on LL's websites, and again, LL could charge bloggers to get the post into the main SL feed on the subject, like an upload fee. We'd even have official SL radio stations. Personally, over the 8 years I've been in SL, I have seen almost every single significant video related to SL, and I'm really not a fanatic.

If you want to understand how much reach is possible, all you have to do is look at the views on some of the videos. Some are into the millions. If SL's website was the first link on the google search engine when people finds some of these videos, that would be millions of eyes not to just that video, but also SL's website and just 1 step away from walking right in.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


I agree, LL is not a person.  But what we do have now is a person at the helm who appears to be in this for the long haul.  A person who has been taking the time to look around and see what is actually going on.  He hasn't been afraid to interact with us.  He appears to me, at least for now, to be the right person for the job.  He is very different than his predecessors.

 

Yeah, like I think I said earlier, I would really like to see someone who really does know it all about 3d, and games, or at least a crapload. That said, I do kind of like Ebbe. I would really like to see him do something with the community on a regular basis tho. Really, IMHO, we should be having a meeting once a month with Ebbe, managers, and any of us that want to come, to talk about whatever for SL. 1 or 2 hours every month. Back in the day, we had lots of meeting. Maybe too many, but we had a clue what was going on. Today, the only way we, meaning the people that develope stuff for SL, know what is going on, is by listening to a 3rd party viewer meeting, every friday, which is limited to viewer stuff. Did you catch that tho, I develope and make stuff for SL, for a living, and I have no clue what they are doing. I know much more about what is going on in Blender and Unity than I do about SL. Matter of fact, I know exactly what will be going on with Blender and Unity for the next year and more.

 

Sorry, I think I address your first question in my response to Theresa. Or.....my capitalist mind is churning......Maybe LL would have these feeds for video and blogs, with different categories, and charge a price based on how many people want to post there. So, like the fashion feed would likely cost alot, but that high price would keep the whole thing managable. If they wanted, and the demand was there, they could run 2 fashion feeds. The prices would ensure that the feeds stayed full too. Feeds that need content would be cheap, which would get more people to create content for it. Ultimately, I see the mass media system not just as a system that services our advertising and content, but would also act as part of SL's marketing arm for the internets. So, when people do searches, and find there way to some blog or video, they are watching it on SL's site, not on all these 3rd party sites that only confuse people even more. This system would also encourage people to create more video and blog content for SL, and the radio stations would promote the people in SL that are musicians and singers.

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Medhue Simoni wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


I agree, LL is not a person.  But what we do have now is a person at the helm who appears to be in this for the long haul.  A person who has been taking the time to look around and see what is actually going on.  He hasn't been afraid to interact with us.  He appears to me, at least for now, to be the right person for the job.  He is very different than his predecessors.

 

Yeah, like I think I said earlier, I would really like to see someone who really does know it all about 3d, and games, or at least a crapload. That said, I do kind of like Ebbe. I would really like to see him do something with the community on a regular basis tho. Really, IMHO, we should be having a meeting once a month with Ebbe, managers, and any of us that want to come, to talk about whatever for SL. 1 or 2 hours every month. Back in the day, we had lots of meeting. Maybe too many, but we had a clue what was going on. Today, the only way we, meaning the people that develope stuff for SL, know what is going on, is by listening to a 3rd party viewer meeting, every friday, which is limited to viewer stuff. Did you catch that tho, I develope and make stuff for SL, for a living, and I have no clue what they are doing. I know much more about what is going on in Blender and Unity than I do about SL. Matter of fact, I know exactly what will be going on with Blender and Unity for the next year and more.

 

Communicaton has improved but still could be better.  There are pros and cons to telling us what they are working on.  But I'm really not sure what you are wanting to know.  I guess they could have told us a year ago that it was going to take a re-write of the MP systems to fix a few of the long standing snafus.  But we do know now they are ready to start implementing this new system.  The transcripts for the TPV meetings are publically posted and available for anyone to read.  I guess someone at LL could write a synopsis and put it in the official blog.  That could make it easier for us.  But outside of this I'm not sure what else you are wanting to know. 

 


Medhue Simoni wrote:


Sorry, I think I address your first question in my response to Theresa. Or.....my capitalist mind is churning......Maybe LL would have these feeds for video and blogs, with different categories, and charge a price based on how many people want to post there. So, like the fashion feed would likely cost alot, but that high price would keep the whole thing managable. If they wanted, and the demand was there, they could run 2 fashion feeds. The prices would ensure that the feeds stayed full too. Feeds that need content would be cheap, which would get more people to create content for it. Ultimately, I see the mass media system not just as a system that services our advertising and content, but would also act as part of SL's marketing arm for the internets. So, when people do searches, and find there way to some blog or video, they are watching it on SL's site, not on all these 3rd party sites that only confuse people even more. This system would also encourage people to create more video and blog content for SL, and the radio stations would promote the people in SL that are musicians and singers.

The problem with this quite simply put is Editorial Control.

In an extreme consider what happenned when a Blogger announced that the Second Life Press Corps was told Firestorm was being banned.  LINK

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Perrie Juran wrote:


Communicaton has improved but still could be better.  There are pros and cons to telling us what they are working on.  But I'm really not sure what you are wanting to know.  I guess they could have told us a year ago that it was going to take a re-write of the MP systems to fix a few of the long standing snafus.  But we do know now they are ready to start implementing this new system.  The transcripts for the TPV meetings are publically posted and available for anyone to read.  I guess someone at LL could write a synopsis and put it in the official blog.  That could make it easier for us.  But outside of this I'm not sure what else you are wanting to know. 

 

LL tries to run SL like it is some big game company, hiding things until they think the time is right. This is not how things should be done. New features and new tech is not a secret, and doesn't need to be. LL is not going to announce something and all of game media is going to come running. It's ridiculous for them to think this way. What LL has is a developer's world. This means, they should work directly with developers to help to make the platform better. Platforms like Blender and Unity are similar to SL, and neither of them hide much at all. They are both very open about what they are doing. Heck, on Unity's site, you can read about Unity5 and Unity6, when the current version is Unity 4.3. Blender development has been crazy the last couple of years, and every bit of it you can read about. Literally, when a new feature comes out, those of us that make tutorials will have 1 out for that feature the day it is released in the official version. Usually too, people are making tutorials when the features are in beta to get more users using it. I'll also point out that Blender takes it bug fixing extremely seriously, and in all of blender, there are currently less than 150 bug reports, and never varies from there much. With SL, we are still dealing with 8 year old crippling bugs.

What do I want? I want NO MORE SECRETS! Like I pointed out, SL is a world for developers, like Blender and Unity. This means, that the developers need to know things. We need to know what is happening and how things are gonna change, way ahead of time. Even now with the New World, why aren't they talking about it? Why aren't they open about it? We saw the hysteria when it slipped out. It didn't need to happen that way at all. LL has not even sat down with any of us to ask us what we want. The longer I wait to find out what is going on with the New World, the more I think it will be a disaster. When is LL going to learn that we are their biggest asset?


Perrie Juran wrote:



The problem with this quite simply put is Editorial Control.

In an extreme consider what happenned when a Blogger announced that the Second Life Press Corps was told Firestorm was being banned. 

Ha ha! Funny stuff!

Maybe you forget, I'm a libertarian. I find this stuff quite amusing, as they get blown way out of proportion. If I were LL, I wouldn't think twice about such things. Let people create their own drama. If we did have some mass media system, and I was LL's CEO, I wouldn't care at all if people posted crazy stuff, or bashed LL. It's all part of the SL experience, and just produces more hype, good or bad. If statements need to be made by LL, then they'll make them. I don't see a problem at all. Usually, it will be the community that will point out the ridiculousness of most of these things.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


The problem with this quite simply put is Editorial Control.

 

Control. I think this is exactly the mindset that LL needs to eliminate from their thinking. I remember when they released the Destination guide. I submitted my image and information, and LL changed it all. They went to my store and took their own picture and posted that as MY STORE's image. How ridiculous was that? Editoral control is an extremely bad thing, for a world like SL. It limits what could be possible, especially if you are relying on some guy in a suit to decide what is exceptable. Daz3D tries to do this also, and their success will be limited to those decisions. If they let go a bit, they'd easily double their profits.

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Phil Deakins wrote:

We refer to the new world as SL2 for want of something better. Not because we think it will be SL revisited.

Personally, I do think it will look similar to SL but none of us have any idea what LL have in mind for it.

I understand, but I think LL should have gave it a label, instead of allowing the SL2 label to stick. People are going to get the impression that this will be SL2, and like I said, I don't think that is remotely possible.

 

As for the look, I don't get how people can say there really is an SL LOOK. Yes, there are some aspects that are uniquely SL. If I'm watching some video of some world, or game, the only time I'm going to realize that it is SL, is when I spot default ground textures, default trees, and most importantly default avatars. Outside of these 3 elements, and maybe a prim build, all the content is the same as any other game. Maybe a shader guy could pick out the distinct shader look in SL, but that's a specialized thing that only they or developers can really see the difference. So, if these 3 elements are different, it won't look much like SL.

 

The best give away that it's SL, are prims in the sky. lol

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