Do We Hurt People By Helping Them?

[Perrie Juran]

Sometimes I answer questions by simply posting a link to where their question was answered and offer no other commentary.  This is usually in response to poorly written questions with heavily abbreviated words and other l33t type speak, fragmented sentences and obvious misspellings (not typos).  I post the links in contrast to my spelling out for them the answer.  Some of those links will require that they do some reading to find their answer.

I am sure that this may not make me look like the friendliest person in the world.

I am generally a friendly person who does like to help.

So my question is, "Do we hurt people more by spelling out an answer for them rather than letting them read the answer(s) for themselves on the Wiki?"

I'm just kind of musing here.

 

eta, typo

[Syo Emerald]

If they are hurt by that...they deserve no better answer.

[Czari Zenovka]

At least you post links.  On a particular subform one of the typical responses is: "Do a forum search; this question has been asked a lot."

I'm not sure about hurting or helping, but there seem to be some people who need (or want) every little detail spelled out for them.  Some of these types are also impatient as indicated by posting the same question or a similar one less than a minute from the initial post.

There are differences in responders as well; some people truly enjoy assisting others and offer detailed answers, others refer the poster to a link where the information can be found, and of course we have the snarky comments.

A note to those who ask questions on the forums: Many/most of the regulars on this forum are most willing to help.  There is a combined wealth of valuable knowledge to be found within these forums.  However, (barring the rare occasion when a Linden pops in) none of us are employees or being paid by LL, we answer questions on our own time and because we enjoy doing so.  Responses to a genuine offer of help that are less than cordial are not likely to engender the desire of the helper to offer such to that person again.  Likewise questions that are written in substandard English (providing English is the person's first language) make it difficult for those who truly wish to help; pulling out our lucky decoder rings to decipher the post takes time.

tl;dr - I have no idea, Perrie. :smileyindifferent:

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Sometimes I answer questions by simply posting a link to where there question was answered and offer no other commentary.  This is usually in response to poorly written questions with heavily abbreviated words and other l33t type speak, fragmented sentences and obvious misspellings (not typos).  I post the links in contrast to my spelling out for them the answer.  Some of those links will require that they do some reading to find their answer.

I am sure that this may not make me look like the friendliest person in the world.

I am generally a friendly person who does like to help.

So my question is, "Do we hurt people more by spelling out an answer for them rather than letting them read the answer(s) for themselves on the Wiki?"

I'm just kind of musing here.

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Don't get me started, we'll have another thread full of my walls of text.

That said, if you want to drag someone out of l33tspeak, you'll probably have to engage more deeply than just linking them to answers.

Or, embrace the l33t?...

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

At least you post links.  On a particular subform one of the typical responses is: "Do a forum search; this question has been asked a lot."

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I'll agree that is a very poor answer.

The Search Function on this Forum sucks.

Sometimes when trying to find even my own posts here I have greater and faster success using Google than using the Forum's own Search Function.  Now that is bass ackwards.

 

eta, punctuation

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I see nothing wrong with it.  Actually it may help them in the long run. 

If they have to read to find their answer they'll learn other things too. It will also make them aware of the knowledge base or wiki as a source of information for the next time they need to know something.  Maybe they'll look up the answer themselves!  (yeah I know that is wishful thinking for some :smileylol:)

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Don't get me started, we'll have another thread full of my walls of text.

 

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4t l34st y0 p0stz 1z r34d4bL3 n n0t 1n 4LL C4Pz n b0Ld3d t3xt

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Don't get me started, we'll have another thread full of my walls of text.

 

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4t l34st y0 p0stz 1z r34d4bL3 n n0t 1n 4LL C4Pz n

b0Ld3d t3xt

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I'll get you for that! (ETA: The presentation, not the left handed compliment).

[Trinity Yazimoto]

Bringing the answer already all done is not the best way to help someone imho.

Of course, in our lazy and hurried world, a lot of ppl think that yes and they ask for the person who answer do the all job. But in real, do the job for someone else is not helping totally.

On top its less rewarding for the person that asked... Better to put this person on the right direction to the answer and let this person fig out by her/himself.. The result will definitely be better because, next time this person will remember better, will probably find new answer by her/himself and wont need so much help.

So Perrie, imho, you are doing good.. On top, its often more difficult for ppl to find a way to put the person asking on the good direction without giving the answer all done than to do the whole job.

The real goal when we help someone is to make it so good that this person will be self sufficient in the future.. this is the real help. So doing the job for this person will help less than pointing the right direction till the answer.

EDIT : grammar

[ImaTest1488314069]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

So my question is, "Do we hurt people more by spelling out an answer for them rather than letting them read the answer(s) for themselves on the Wiki?"

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Most times, yes.

It's situational, though.

[Dillon Levenque]

I really think pointing to a link is the right way to deal with the kinds of questions you're talking about.

I remember the first question I asked on the Forum (might even have been my first post) and I only asked it because I had searched every single SL resource I could find with no success (turned out that was because it didn't exist: I had experienced my first failed MP delivery (or might still have been Xstreet) and was looking for the official body that oversaw those kinds of things).

I can't see how anyone could get reasonably active and capable in SL without doing a lot of reading. They might as well learn that early on.

[Perrie Juran]

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

Bringing the answer already all done is not the best way to help someone imho.

Of course, in our lazy and hurried world, a lot of ppl think that yes and they ask for the person who answer do the all job. But in real, do the job for someone else is not helping totally.

On top its less rewarding for the person that asked... Better to put this person on the right direction to the answer and let this person fig out by her/himself.. The result will definitely be better because, next time this person will remember better, will probably find new answer by her/himself and wont need so much help.

So Perrie, imho, you are doing good.. On top, its often more difficult for ppl to find a way to put the person asking on the good direction without giving the answer all done than to do the whole job.

The real goal when we help someone is to make it so good that this person will be self sufficient in the future.. this is the real help. So doing the job for this person will help less than pointing the right direction till the answer.

EDIT : grammar

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"The real goal when we help someone is to make it so good that this person will be self sufficient in the future.."

I once had a teacher comment that, "They knew they had done their job well when their students could teach the subject to others."

[Pamela Galli]

I agree. Some are not aware of the valuable resource that forums can be -- if you know how to use the search function. Same goes for Google. 

As a former teacher, my goal was always to empower students to find answers and solve problems for themselves. Otherwise they spend the rest of their lives not knowing how to find the information they need to solve problems. It's not mean. In the long run it is kinder.

[Loralinda]

I spell things out on the premise that many who are in sl do not do a lot of reading (it appears from people I meet in my travels that some are barely literate).  From my experience there are also a population of non-native English speakers who would have problems with reading a lot of information in Engllish.  So I try to boil information down to the simplest terms.  If I can, I then back it up with links, so they can investigate further.

[Malanya]

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Loralinda wrote:

I spell things out on the premise that many who are in sl do not do a lot of reading (it appears from people I meet in my travels that some are barely literate).  From my experience there are also a population of non-native English speakers who would have problems with reading a lot of information in Engllish.  So I try to boil information down to the simplest terms.  If I can, I then back it up with links, so they can investigate further.

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I agree, but would like to add, it may be easy for many of us to search and read an article and get something out of it. I do feel that there are people on here that have some disabilities which prevent them from doing what we feel as normal reading and learning. I do not consider these people lazy, nor do I know about them enough to say " you will learn more by reading and being to search things for yourself next time" I am not speaking of Residents that are non-native English speakers only, I am referring to real handicaps. I don't feel that they don't deserve a better answer, that sounds offensive to me. We take things for granted many times and if I can help someone by using a picture or giving more details, I will. I don't think just because someone has real difficulties (too many to name) that they don't deserve to be here in sl nor do I feel should we expect them to be not deserving of help.

edt typos

edit again I think I know why this question came up from answering a different thread. Kindness, tolerance and understanding goes a long way. I don't feel everyone refuses to learn, we can't judge what is difficult for them, or impose our beliefs on what we did to help others will work in all situations.

 

[Vaughn Highwater]

To me it's always a matter of how extensive the problem/question is and what kind of person I'm talking to.

When I'm talking to a kid with the attention span of a fly I tell them where they could find a good answer. To me it's a waste of time talking to impatient people that only know you for as long as it takes for you to fix their problems without them learning anything about it. And then probably asking someone else the same question a couple of days later because they didn't write anything down or even gave it a try to remember the solution.

When I'm talking to someone who is not very tech savy or has problems with the language I look up an easy to understand solution (if that is faster than just explaining it myself) and stick around in case they don't understand some steps.

When someone is tech savy and speaks the language well they'll probably be grateful for a link with the solution as they usually built their understanding of technology finding the right resources for answers and now have a new one.

In any case, if I offer a link I usually say a few words about it. That's a little more friendly than just posting a link and saying nothing .

[Leia36]

I know where you are coming from Perrie. I met a confused young man in London the other day, well perhaps confused is the wrong term. He has spent the last 10 months in SL dressed in a diaper and vest, he is beyond bizarre, his expectations are totally unreal and what's worse is that he is fully aware of what he is doing. We all felt so bad for him that we attempted to help. He didn't take our efforts very well and got very annoyed. I had to stop myself from saying any more and I had to eventually block him for his own sake. Some people are beyond help.

[Trinity Yazimoto]

As someone said, it depend of the context of course.

But i start by thinking the person has a brain and know how to use it... s/he probably doesnt know the answer of the question, otherwise, there wouldnt be any question, but i m prone to think that if this person is given the good tools for finding her/himself the answer it will be the best help i would give. 

Of course, adding some sentences to the link is better. 

On top i make sure that if the infos provided are not enough for the person can find the answer, s/he feels enough at ease for sending me a PM or IM for i explain more. And this happen often.. Even if i dont excplicitely tell,  "you may message me if".. people do it.

I had to teach in an alternative pedagogy school in the past and since then, i know that the more important is never the answer but the tools we give for finding the answer... Of course, this is the ideal.. i m often too much lazy myself and give the job all done lol.... But then i consider ive helped less than if i had find a more clever way to put the person on the good path or give tools to find the answer by her/himself.

The tools may depend of the person... of course, i ll give more infos to someone whith a low level of knowledge about SL.. 

For me its respect i give to the other person, to think s/he will ask more if the infos are not enough. Considering ppl like they are 5 years old while they are adult, is not, for me, respectful... althought i know... that in some case, it would be better to answer like if they are 5. But before knowing for sure im talking to a kid disguised in an adult , i prefer to considerate everyone here as a grown person. Asking more infos while one has not understood the first answers, never killed anyone.

[Suspiria Finucane]

Help is a perception. If the helped and helper don't perceive the solution in the same way, how do you know you are actually helping.

That said, if both agree on the solution and it is the correct solution, I would say helping doesn't hurt. However, if the solution doesn't match or the help is the incorrect solution, yes, it hurts.

Lastly, someone asking for help is different than someone needing help or another's perception that someone needs help.

[Syo Emerald]

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Leia36 wrote:

I know where you are coming from Perrie. I met a confused young man in London the other day, well perhaps confused is the wrong term. He has spent the last 10 months in SL dressed in a diaper and vest, he is beyond bizarre, his expectations are totally unreal and what's worse is that he is fully aware of what he is doing. We all felt so bad for him that we attempted to help. He didn't take our efforts very well and got very annoyed. I had to stop myself from saying any more and I had to eventually block him for his own sake. Some people are beyond help.

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That sounds like a story I might enjoy.

/me grabs a pillow and sits down infront of Leia, waiting.

[Leia36]

He often stands and has a conversation with himself, no woman will even talk to him usually, not even newbies. When approached he says things like (paraphrasing)

He wears and does a lot of things a lot of people don't understand both in RL and SL . He spends a lot of time wearing a T shirt and diaper in RL & SL

or

He found out recently that he is NOT a good person

or

Ugly inside and out

or

He thrives and survives on the hatred of others

or

He wants to be a WWE superstar

We tried hard to get him to see how ridiculous he is and help him before he damages himself beyond recovery but it was no use.

[Tex Monday]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Don't get me started, we'll have another thread full of my walls of text.

 

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4t l34st y0 p0stz 1z r34d4bL3 n n0t 1n 4LL C4Pz n

b0Ld3d t3xt

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I have no problem with giving out links...they have to learn, don't they

It's the smart a**ed remarks that make you seem like a jerk....

:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

[Perrie Juran]

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Tex Monday wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Don't get me started, we'll have another thread full of my walls of text.

 

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4t l34st y0 p0stz 1z r34d4bL3 n n0t 1n 4LL C4Pz n

b0Ld3d t3xt

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I have no problem with giving out links...they have to learn, don't they

It's the smart a**ed remarks that make you seem like a jerk....

:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

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You wanting to pick a fight? 

[Tex Monday]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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You wanting to pick a fight? 

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I'm a bit outmatched..after all, you have a uranium P36 explosive space modulator capable of blowing up the earth...:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

ETA: although, I can put a call in to Bugs Bunny and then maybe have a shot....

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Tex Monday wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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You wanting to pick a fight? 

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I'm a bit outmatched..after all, you have a uranium P36 explosive space modulator capable of blowing up the earth...:matte-motes-sunglasses-3:

ETA: although, I can put a call in to Bugs Bunny and then maybe have a shot....

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Tex, I'm unable to imbed the following video for some reason, but you might rent this for a showdown with Perrie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMFgkoCctdk

I saw it. It was impressive. But I fell in love with the ACME catapult, which I watched hurl a washing machine through the air on a glorious October afternoon (there are days I'd love to hurl mine). It was so graceful I almost shed a tear.

;-)