ziicutie Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Maybe I am being a little OCD about this, but I feel that the prims on a full sim should be at exactly 16384 and 1/4 of that for a homesteat and ect... The reason for this is so that when you devide parcles, they will divide prims between eachother more evenly and properly and the smallest possible parcle on a full sim would have 1 prim exactyly instead of a rounded decimal. I am not saying that somebody would have a reason to do this, but if you were to divide a sim into as many parcles as possible, they could each have one prim place on them because there would be 16384 parcles. This just sounds to me like something that would be easier to work with for most people and more professional. The land sizes would be eaiser to know what prims they are because a 1/16th of a sim would be 1024 prims. Some of you may not understand what the number 1024 means, but some clearly are famileir with that number and would understand why this would be a nice number to work with. I think I understand why linden labs dose not go over 15000 prims, however it would be pretty nice to have sims that can hold 32768 prims. If these sims can cause issues then linden labs can put up warnings that you are using these sims at your own risk. These sims would be very useful in a lot of low script and high prim residential situaions, and would be very nice for them peple who prefer to put out platform levels and skyboexs throughout thier sim that seem to think they could use more prims because they think they have too much space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 On the surface this sounds good. However prims are the real thing you pay for when you pay tiers, so if they raised the prim limits another 1,384 prims on a sim, the tier would go up too. They wouldn't keep it the same because in effect they'd be lowing the tier and they've quite clearly shown they aren't about to do that. Estate owners and landlords would have to raise rents across the board to reflect the higher cost. Most people can't afford a sim now, and even less would be able to afford one at a higher price and those with lots might downgrade or get rid of their land all together if they have to pay a higher tier, thus leading to a land dump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni Darkwatch Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 Actually, you pay tier for square meters, not for prims: https://secondlife.com/my/account/landfees.php?lang=en-US Or if you go estate, you pay per estate/homestead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwenting Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 actually, you do both as prim count depends on area and can on top of that be increased by the estate owner if he's renting out parcels by using some of the fallow land as a source of bonus prims for the other parcels. You also pay per prim because full regions (sims) are more expensive per square meter than are homesteads, in large part because of the higher prim allowance (bigger slice of CPU cycles also comes into play of course, allowing for more simultaneous visitors). So yes, you pay per prim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugsy Penguin Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I like the idea of bumping up the prim count to 16,384. Since land sizes are done in nice round binary amounts, having a nice round binary number for the sim prim count makes sense. Plus it's not that much of an increase so I doubt lag would be much of an issue. I get the feeling that the guy at LL who did the land was working in binary and was different from the guy who did the prims who was working in decimal. The old 10m max prim size and 15,000 sim prim count seem to indicate this. To be clear though, the smallest possible parcel on a sim is 4m x 4m (16m²). That means there's 4,096 possible parcels in a sim (65,536m² / 16m²). Each of those parcels would have 4 prims allotted. No matter how land was divided up, there would be no prims lost to rounding. To figure out how many prims a parcel has, you would just take the size and divide by 4 (512m² = 128 prims; 1,024m² = 256 prims; 2,048m² = 512 prims; etc...) Interestingly, there's 3 prims currently allotted to a 16m² parcel. That means if a sim was divided into 4k unique parcels with unique owners there would be 2,712 prims lost to rounding (15,000 - 4,096 * 3). [clicking "Post" hoping I did the math right, LOL] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I like the 16,384. I do (: like you say it not going to make a huge impact and like OP when I first learned about 117 for a starter 512 then I went wut!!! so 512m gets 128 prims. it not seem like much extra but 11 prims extra is quite a lot on a starter + can also be seen that linden kinda doing something. like hey! the tier to damn high. yes but look! more prims for the same price. is about 7.5% more prims for a full sim. is better than nothing and most people will take it and be happy to get I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 jwenting wrote: actually, you do both as prim count depends on area and can on top of that be increased by the estate owner if he's renting out parcels by using some of the fallow land as a source of bonus prims for the other parcels. You also pay per prim because full regions (sims) are more expensive per square meter than are homesteads, in large part because of the higher prim allowance (bigger slice of CPU cycles also comes into play of course, allowing for more simultaneous visitors). So yes, you pay per prim. It can be considered both ways - land and prims - but, other than space, it's prims that we pay for. We can't do anything with space except move around in it. Everything we do is with prims, so that's what tier pays for. Or, to be more accurate these days - it's LI (land impact). When I was a landlord years ago, it was prims that I rented out in my mind. Even though I rented out furnished skyboxes, it was all down to prims. To the OP. You are mistaken about the number 16384. You really meant 16385. That's the number of individual units in 0 to 16384. However, in binary systems, it's common not to use all available units in that way, as some are used for control data. Having said that, it may be that 15,000 is just an arbitrary number, based on how many prims a sim can handle without slowing, or it may be an arbitrary number based on how much money LL wants to charge for stuff. It may be nothing to do with binary mathematics at all, in which case your suggestion would be pointless. I'm sure that if the number is down to binary contraints, then the rest, or most of the rest, are needed for control data, and LL decided to make it a round figure - 15,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 This is a good idea... makes me wonder why they didn't do that in the first place. That 15,000 number is pretty arbitrary, and surely the difference from 16K can't be worth worrying about. There is some precedence for changing the total number of prims a sim can support; they tinkered with the number for Homesteads and OpenSpace sims, and with the prim limits on temp-on-rez objects and "just passing through" ridden vehicles, etc. As to doubling the total primcount, it seems that the approach has been to instead increase how much can be done with each prim. That includes mesh, of course, but also the mesh physics types which can dramatically reduce land impact of regular (non-sculpty) linksets -- and even more than mesh, the upcoming Materials features which can give amazing "bas-relief" detail to any surface (except the avatar mesh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeclaw Denfu Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Phil Deakins wrote: "To the OP. You are mistaken about the number 16384. You really meant 16385." Actually, it 16384. 16 bit = 65536 individual states. That divided by 4 is 16384. To the topic at paw, since LL won't reduce tier, then atleast a bit of the savings achieved through sinking traffic cost and new more economic server technologies could be given back through a prim boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Oops. You are dead right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 You've snuck out of your borrow on us! It's good to see you back. Are you completely out of hybernation now or is your mind still a little fuzzy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LepreKhaun Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Hugsy Penguin wrote: I like the idea of bumping up the prim count to 16,384. Since land sizes are done in nice round binary amounts, having a nice round binary number for the sim prim count makes sense. Plus it's not that much of an increase so I doubt lag would be much of an issue. I get the feeling that the guy at LL who did the land was working in binary and was different from the guy who did the prims who was working in decimal. The old 10m max prim size and 15,000 sim prim count seem to indicate this. To be clear though, the smallest possible parcel on a sim is 4m x 4m (16m²). That means there's 4,096 possible parcels in a sim (65,536m² / 16m²). Each of those parcels would have 4 prims allotted. No matter how land was divided up, there would be no prims lost to rounding. To figure out how many prims a parcel has, you would just take the size and divide by 4 (512m² = 128 prims; 1,024m² = 256 prims; 2,048m² = 512 prims; etc...) Interestingly, there's 3 prims currently allotted to a 16m² parcel. That means if a sim was divided into 4k unique parcels with unique owners there would be 2,712 prims lost to rounding (15,000 - 4,096 * 3). [clicking "Post" hoping I did the math right, LOL] Though your math is correct, you're wrong in assuming all 4x4 parcels contain only 3 prims each. If you carved a full region into 4096 parcels, you'd find that 2,712 of them have a 4 prim allotment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeclaw Denfu Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Has anyone tried to do that? Would be an interesting experiment for someone with too much time on their paws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillon Levenque Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Welcome back, Qwalyphi! Were your ears burning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 If you carved a full region into 4096 parcels, you'd find that 2,712 of them have a 4 prim allotment. I doubt it. It's easy to do a smaller experiment: Divide a 32 (which has a 7 prim allotment) into two 16s. They'll each have a 3 prim allotment. The total allotment for the region, however, is the same whether divided or joined. So if you own just those two 16s in the whole region, you'll still have 7 prims available, despite each parcel showing only 3 prims each. If one divided up a region in 4096 parcels each with a different owner, I'm pretty sure 2712 prims would not be available to anybody. (Wow... Qwal was right: this is really deep into Land esoterica.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugsy Penguin Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 To get the max prims for a parcel I calculate land_size / 65,536 * 15,000 and then truncate any fraction. Most parcels are going to have some amount to truncate. If those “truncated prims” were being allocated out to the parcels, then for any random sim you go to, all the parcels' max prims should total up to 15,000. That's not what I'm seeing in the few sims that I checked. Are you seeing something different? To check this, I adapted a land surveyor script I already had to include looking for max prims. In Suisun, there are 7 unallocated prims. In Buckler, there are 8 unallocated prims. In Pierce, there are 6 unallocated prims. Suisun (14,993 allocated max prims): Owner A = Governor Linden (25872m²; 5921 max prims) Owner B = --------------- (4944m²; 1131 max prims) Owner C = --------------- (2560m²; 585 max prims) Owner D = --------------- (3328m²; 761 max prims) Owner E = Hugsy Penguin (5056m²; 1157 max prims) Owner F = --------------- (1536m²; 351 max prims) Owner G = --------------- (11792m²; 2698 max prims) Owner H = --------------- (4608m²; 1054 max prims) Owner I = --------------- (1728m²; 395 max prims) Owner J = --------------- (4096m²; 937 max prims) Owner K = --------------- (16m²; 3 max prims) Buckler (14,992 allocated max prims): Owner A = --------------- (5472m²; 1252 max prims) Owner B = --------------- (6352m²; 1453 max prims) Owner C = --------------- (17200m²; 3936 max prims) Owner D = Governor Linden (9456m²; 2164 max prims) Owner E = --------------- (4336m²; 992 max prims) Owner F = --------------- (1376m²; 314 max prims) Owner G = --------------- (1024m²; 234 max prims) Owner H = --------------- (1856m²; 424 max prims) Owner I = --------------- (1024m²; 234 max prims) Owner J = --------------- (8160m²; 1867 max prims) Owner K = --------------- (5632m²; 1289 max prims) Owner L = --------------- (512m²; 117 max prims) Owner M = --------------- (1024m²; 234 max prims) Owner N = --------------- (512m²; 117 max prims) Owner O = --------------- (1536m²; 351 max prims) Owner P = --------------- (64m²; 14 max prims) Pierce (14,994 allocated max prims): Owner A = Governor Linden (16320m²; 3735 max prims) Owner B = --------------- (18560m²; 4248 max prims) Owner C = --------------- (16m²; 3 max prims) Owner D = --------------- (1152m²; 263 max prims) Owner E = --------------- (10496m²; 2402 max prims) Owner F = --------------- (1024m²; 234 max prims) Owner G = --------------- (13360m²; 3057 max prims) Owner H = --------------- (288m²; 65 max prims) Owner I = --------------- (3552m²; 812 max prims) Owner J = --------------- (768m²; 175 max prims) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LepreKhaun Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Ahhh, I see my error- the land tool truncates the fractional part, so one would never see a 4-prim 16m2 parcel. You are totally correct. One could just wish we had that behavior in determining LI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Perrie Juran wrote: You've snuck out of your borrow on us! It's good to see you back. Are you completely out of hybernation now or is your mind still a little fuzzy? Thanks. I woke up once mid winter when LL had borked the network somehow. There was actually some useful info over in the Server forum. I'm still waking up maybe... which I'm thinking cuz I have no enthusiasm re the forums atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Hi Madelaine. TY for the welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwalyphi Korpov Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Qwalyphi Korpov wrote: Hi Madelaine. TY for the welcome. You're welcome. Nice to see you back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Yay Qwalyphi is back from winter hibernation! Can the warm weather be far behind? Welcome back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Welcome back, Qwalyphi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now