Journalist looking for veteran Second Life residents for a game article

[Qie Niangao]

First, you're extremely fortunate that some of these folks have volunteered. I'd especially encourage you to follow up with Tateru if you haven't already.

Second, a little perspective on the "games" thing: There certainly are games within Second Life, but the general idea is that they'd be a part of SL in the same way that playing games is part of real life. Some people spend a lot of time doing that, whereas others do so only rarely if ever.

The same is true of all the other areas of interest in SL. Just as in real life, not everybody is an artist, or musician, or retailer, or cinematographer, or educator, or architect, or pornographer... you get the idea. An appeal of SL is that it's relatively cheap and low-risk to try out a new area to see if it matches one's interests.

In theory, SL could be a platform on which any possible game could be developed. In practice, however, there are architectural, performance, and security considerations that limit the scope of what sorts of game play will succeed. That said, a number of new features in SL expand that scope--although SL users have yet to take full advantage of these features. (That is to say, it could be a very exciting time ahead for SL users with interest in gaming--and right now, for inventive users who develop games.)

[Boudicca Littlebird]

I make RP games for sl, my info site is msdcs.co.uk, I have been here over 5 years, if you want info then IM my main business AV, Lucinda Bulloch, I could even show you some of the many things I have made for RP, would be nice to get a view from a none second lifer, or one just starting, I make all things RP, from combat meters to role play meters with things like disease, I also make things like plane and boats, that use public sims to do things like fish for linden fish so to provide food, some of my meters need food and drink to heal, I also made the Navi meters and did a few years ago make custom meters, but have stopped that now.

By the way we are not allowed to put websites in post that advertise our services, I get a flood of AR reports if I do, you seem to be lucky that no one has reported you yet or told you, they must like you.

[Diane Holden]

I have been in Second Life for 6 years today and I do consider it a game. The only other discription I have heard is "a pretty chat room" and I don't like that one. You can't fly in Real LIfe, or Teleport wherever you want to go. You can't tap a magic wand on the ground and make a house, a car, a space ship ( no, I never actually made a car, I have one in RL). This world and everything in it is made by the people who come here, call them residents or gamers it is all the same to me. I don't get upset about the words you use, it is about comunnicating ideas. 

I brought a friend here from Entropia Universe, a REAL game, with MOBS that attack you,etc. and after abouit half an hour he said, "This is just a pretty chat room." So I tapped a magic wand on the floor of my house and made a table out of thin air in about two minutes. Suddenly he was much more interested and wanted to learn how to do this amazing feat. I sent him to NCI (New Citizens Inc) and the Ivory Tower of Prims (there are many more good places to learn, these are just the ones I first found out about). He spent weeks playing at building all sorts of things. You can't do that in RL.

He also made many friends from all over the world, something that is hard to do in RL. Regularly talking to people from Japan, China, France, England, Wales, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, etc is hard to do any other way. I love seeing what others have made and talking to them about their ideas. And sometimes I just go to a club and listen to the music and dance the night away. 

I really don't know why so many are upset by calling it a game. It is the most fun I have ever had and I love being a player.

Diane Holden

[Perrie Juran]

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Diane Holden wrote:

I have been in Second Life for 6 years today and I do consider it a game. The only other discription I have heard is "a pretty chat room" and I don't like that one. You can't fly in Real LIfe, or Teleport wherever you want to go. You can't tap a magic wand on the ground and make a house, a car, a space ship ( no, I never actually made a car, I have one in RL). This world and everything in it is made by the people who come here, call them residents or gamers it is all the same to me. I don't get upset about the words you use, it is about comunnicating ideas. 

I brought a friend here from Entropia Universe, a REAL game, with MOBS that attack you,etc. and after abouit half an hour he said, "This is just a pretty chat room." So I tapped a magic wand on the floor of my house and made a table out of thin air in about two minutes. Suddenly he was much more interested and wanted to learn how to do this amazing feat. I sent him to NCI (New Citizens Inc) and the Ivory Tower of Prims (there are many more good places to learn, these are just the ones I first found out about). He spent weeks playing at building all sorts of things. You can't do that in RL.

He also made many friends from all over the world, something that is hard to do in RL. Regularly talking to people from Japan, China, France, England, Wales, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, etc is hard to do any other way. I love seeing what others have made and talking to them about their ideas. And sometimes I just go to a club and listen to the music and dance the night away. 

I really don't know why so many are upset by calling it a game. It is the most fun I have ever had and I love being a player.

Diane Holden

---

You do realize that you answered your own question in your post.  You referred to Entropia, by way of contrast to SL, as a REAL GAME.  Well, if Second Life is not a real game, then it must be by way of contrast, a __________ game.  But I'll let you fill in the blank.

Those of us who think of it as a Virtual World will all agree that we are all allowed to or can play games in it.  And we will agree you are entitled to your opinion.  But we are also entitled to our opinion.  Just because you do not see the experience the same way that we do does not make ours invalid.

 

 

[Knowl Paine]

I'm here to play games with you. That just doesn't sound right.

Do you want me to play games with you? Is that better? Ask, don't tell, right?

 

Which parts of your SL, are games, and which parts should be taken seriously?

 

I don't prefer the term Game, because it is a convenient excuse, to separate actions from responsibilities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Diane Holden]

I never said it was invalid. I just don't understand why it means so much to you to not call it a game. 

Diane 

[Orca Flotta]

By definition SL is not a game. The reasoning behind it is well known and besides we have much better terms to define SL. Bleeehblablubb, that discussion isn't helpful in this thread and Fastrez is  supposed to learn about SL and eventually make up his own mind about the game/vw question.

I agree with what some others wrote already:

- you can never wite an informed article about SL without experiencing it for yourself. There are millions of accounts in SL and no matter how many interviews you conduct you will always only scratch the surface.

- just TP around in world, visit all the mainland continents, sail the seas, walk along the roads, explore the more interesting sims (as long as we still have some), talk to people face to face, travel with them, hang with them, share their experience. And still every individual encounter can never be more than a snapshot, a tiny window into a tiny aspect and part of the world of SL.

- there are many ways to live your life in SL. Some have nothing to do with each other and don't know **bleep** about what the others are doing. A roleplayer who spent 5+ years as a slave of Gor doesn't know anything about the music or art scene of SL, a landlord knows a lot about business strategies but might have never heard about the latest fashion trend, the typical fashionista won't even know where on the grid she is since she never opened her worldmap, tthe happy family roleplayers are as clueless in SL as they are in RL, tinies are mostly silly but clever, vampires suck, escorts suck better, furries are perverts, some people have prejudices, others are naiive, some people are intelligent, more people are stupid, most people are fair, a quite huge group are mean ... and the list goes on ...

 

All in all I guess your assignment is problematic and I don't wanna walk in your shoes. What you try to achieve is similar to an honest portrayal of life on planet earth.

Still, if you have  any questions, just contact me inworld, and when I'm not too busy I'll respond. No, wait, that didn't sound right. I'm often busy and can't respond right away. But I'll respond eventually. :smileywink:

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Diane Holden wrote:

I never said it was invalid. I just don't understand why it means so much to you to not call it a game. 

Diane 

---

Part of it is finding or using a term that takes into account Second Life's multifaceted nature.  And I think Virtual World accomplishes it better than referring to it as a game.  I shy away from using the phrase Virtual Reality because a Virtual Reality would go even further, ala Snow Crash, which was some of or a big inspiration for SL.  (Which is a great book I highly recommend)  There is also Tad Williams "Otherland" Trilogy, among other writings.

Also there is the problem that arises when people refer to it as "just a game."  This is used by people to excuse 'bad behavior.' "It's just a game, you shouldn't take thing seriously."

Second Life is for some or many (the quantity is unknown) a very real contact point with other people.  Yes we know it's our 'avatars,' but the contact is real.  We can engage in very real activities with our friends like dancing or having sex and also some very unreal ones. For instance, in RL, while I can not literally run around all day with my head up my arse, in SL it is perfectly possible to do so. 

So my basic objection to the use of the word "game' is that it tends to minimize what is available to do and accomplish here.  Personally I feel that "Virtual World" best describes SL and encompasses in a better way what is available to do, i.e. "Your World, Your Imagination."

 

 

 

[Mora Eldritch]

...And some people like to make sweeping generalizations. Thanks for that. :matte-motes-not-entertained:

You know some people can belong to a subculture and still mingle with other people and try to understand how they tick.

Not everyone is stuck in their own ivory tower clueless to everything around them.

[Orca Flotta]

Yes, exactly Mora. I made those sweeping generalizations fully aware of the fact and of the kind of responses I would generate. That's why I also wrote some people have prejudices. I belong to a subculture myself but try to stay open minded about the rest of SL. I shop at the same stores like  you, I go to the same concerts and visit the same sims ... if I find the time. But I know for a fact that many are stuck in their towers. Very rarely are those ivory towers though.

 

[Mora Eldritch]

Oh yes, how very profound of you.

Parroting fairly offensive stereotypes in order to provoke a response you can conclude on, well done.

I'll take my words elsewhere as to not divert this thread further.

[Fastrez]

Hi, I would love to take part in this, absolutely I am deliberately no going inworld until I have my first batch of questions answered. This is because I want to summarise my piece with a comparison between how unknowledgeable I was before playing, and how I better understand it a few months down the line. But once that phase bass passed - and it will hopefully be in a couple of weeks - then yes, we absolutely must talk.

 

I'll DM you my email address in case you want to talk before then.

 

All the best,

 

Dave

[Fastrez]

As a builder, yes you are one person I would love to speak with as this area also fascinates me. I'll DM you my email address. I would love to chat before - or after - I start inworld.

 

Many thanks,

 

Dave

[161488303349]

when SL first started it was a game. same like Minecraft. was just a game where you made stuff. then other people came and it turned into not a game. became a way of life for some of them. social network and self-discovery tool and all that

most the orginal people gone now. making stuff on other games

[Boudicca Littlebird]

Hi

you can contact me on admin@msdcs.co.uk

ty.

[Phil Deakins]

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Diane Holden wrote:

I have been in Second Life for 6 years today and I do consider it a game. The only other discription I have heard is "a pretty chat room" and I don't like that one.

---

It's not a game, simply because it doesn't have any gamepley; i.e. there is nothing to play. Yes, there are some small games within it but SL itself simply isn't a game.

I can offer you a word to describe the nature of SL - it's a 'passtime'

[161488303349]

i read a better word for it today

Ludo Merit said SL is a playground

is much better that word. so i will use from now on

[Porky Gorky]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

Quote

It's not a game, simply because it doesn't have any gamepley; i.e. there is nothing to play. Yes, there are some small games within it but SL itself simply isn't a game.

I can offer you a word to describe the nature of SL - it's a 'passtime'

---

I have to disagree here Phil. Having conducted business here for 8+ years now I totally look at SL as an in depth commerce game. There are rules to follow and varying skills and tactics that need to to be learnt and utilised to combat the various failing and quirky systems that are in place to support commerce in SL. These skills range from "winning" at inworld search and MP keywords to learning how to successfully conduct business within a volatile and unstable environment that is managed by a company that refuses to get involved with resident/merchant disputes.

SL is a small microsystem that can be used, manipulated and mastered to great effect if you know how to play the game. 

So saying SL is not a game is wrong imho. To me it is a game. I think determining whether or not SL is a game should be left to the discretion of each individual player/user.

[Teagan Tobias]

Wow Porky, you just gave a very good description of RL and the way Corporations Game the rest of us. I guess you could look at SL as a school for RL, how to game the system, learn it here and apply it there.

[Phil Deakins]

So your "passtime" has been running the business and all that it entails. And you may well have treated the business as a game. I did too for almost 6 years. The profits were the score, high search rankings generated profits, and I am very good at getting top search rankings. My life in SL was a game to me - just like yours is to you. But none of that has ever made SL itself a game. Games have gameplay. We all know that. SL itself doesn't have gameplay. There is no goal to achieve like games have. We all know that too. So SL is not a game.

Football is a game. It has gameplay. Tiddleywinks is a game. It also has gameplay. Etc. etc. etc. In all games, if you don't do the gameplay there is nothing. If you don't kick the football and try to score goals, there is no football. If you don't try to flip the tiddleywinks into the recepticle, there is no tiddleywinks. SL doesn't need you to do anything for it still to be SL. It's not a game.

 

@16. I like your "playground" word

[Alazarin Mondrian]

Been a resident in SL for 7 1/2 years. My main activity in SL is live music performance and a bit of building. I don't socialise or RP much although I enjoy both. I do a bit of exploring to look at new and interesting projects whenever I have some spare time

[161488303349]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

@16. I like your "playground" word

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is not my word but is very appropriate i think

[08:45] Ludo Merit: SL is a playground, not a game. We bring our own toys and share them with each other. We get annoyed with the playground supervisors or the other kids and pick up our toys and go home. Just like a playgrounds

is from a convo between Ludo and Prokofy

convo is about all kinds of things that Ldou, as a creator and artist does in SL, and about Prokofy as well bc Ludo was much interested in Prokofys perspectives as Prokofy was in Ludo.  convo covers a whole bunch of stuff. is really interesting

can read the whole thing here:

http://secondthoughts.typepad.com/second_thoughts/2012/10/avatar-on-the-grid-ludo-merit-and-sl-as-playground-not-game.html#more

 

 

[161488303349]

should add before people pile on Ludo

is a metaphor. and not literal

+

the word "playground" explains better how we behave and why we each do play in the way we do. like Ludo says in other part, we play with those we like and share same interests. we ignore the ones we don't like or who don't like us

and sometimes it all gets too hard so we go home, but we usual come back and play another day, bc we still want to play. if not in this playground then in another one

[Diane Holden]

I like the word playground. It does fit better than most i have heard. And you did very well in saying why you think so. As for people who pound their fists and say, " It isn't a game because it doesn't fit MY deffinition of a game.", I just roll my eyes and ignore them the same way I do when I hear people yelling about what is and isn't a sport. 

Remember to have fun everyone, that is what it is about and why I play there. 

BTW, I just started playing on OSgrid too which is an SL spinoff but has different rules.

Diane

[Melita Magic]

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Maryanne Solo wrote:

Yes I agree.

You is that person

We mightn't be around all the time to know it's your birthday

but.. well... you know..

And Perrie, thank you so much for the reminder of the ultimate explanation of what SL can mean.

World Builder.

---

TYVM  

Ah, the birthday thread...it was half tongue in cheek. I was always big on not saying anything about it so, how would anyone know it was coming up. My bad.

Anyway thanks. Doesn't seem like the OP is very interested in me though so. Shrug. Lol