Ewan Loordes Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I produced some classic costumes of batman, wonder woman etc. I got a notice from LL saying they infringed on Mavel comics copyrights. OK. accepted. I should have considered that before putting them up for sale.. So.. I removed them from my shop and Marketplace. I did not want to get myself or LL in trouble. My issue is there are several costumes of the same names in shops and on marketplace. What gives? Why is it ok for some and not for others.My thoughts are that someone didn't like competition so reported me.... well fair game. Lets get them ALL off the market then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 "Let's" as in "let us" as in you want the people in this forum to comb the marketplace for Marvel Comics infringment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Linden Lab should have a human (or two) in the loop & create a item approval process, like Apple has for apps. No more instant anything goes to market. A bit of a bottleneck to be sure but its not like there is any shortage of items for sale anyway so maybe its time to clamp down a little? Quality Control. I think that Linden Lab having an employee (or more likely a small dedicated team) looking at each creation pre-release & deciding if it is acceptable (examining & rejecting likely copyright infringements, extremely low quality items, items with broken scripts that don't work, etc etc) is the only solution to clean up Second Life. A professional solution I know. One that runs counter to their philosophy & goals... thus will never be implemented. :catsad: I'm one of the very few who would like to see standards raised much higher here. It's an unpopular opinion. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spica Inventor Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Number one: L.L. Doesn't want to hire the employees which would increase overhead and decrease profits dramatically to 'supervise' to that level. Number two: L.L. makes a lot of money on copyright infringement so why would they even want too discourage that very commonplace and profitable practice in S.L.??? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paula001 Goldschein Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 hi ewan don't check out 'others'! sell and let sell, anything goes and if you step over the line aka selling things you are not allowed to sell, be aware that it could shut your account and store down completely. ask yourself if you want to relist etc. and take the risk to not log on sl in the future .. or just let it go. you could also haunt all other merchants that you feel do wrong but it would probably just give you grey hair and a lower life quality for the time. greetings, paula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talia Davidov Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Number 3: it would add liability to LL. Right now they get safe harbour protection, but if they are in the approval process I believe that puts that in Jeopardy. Number 4: HECK NO!!! I don't want some one who can't even bother to post any information updates for months on end to suddenly be responsible for "approving" my stuff. Let market forces approve my stuff, if its good people will buy it. If its crap they won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacki Silverfall Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Personally I wont buy anything that's copy written,or well known brand. LL will get in your inventory and take it from you. Best not to spend the L's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deja Letov Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Ewan Loordes wrote: I produced some classic costumes of batman, wonder woman etc. I got a notice from LL saying they infringed on Mavel comics copyrights. OK. accepted. I should have considered that before putting them up for sale.. So.. I removed them from my shop and Marketplace. I did not want to get myself or LL in trouble. My issue is there are several costumes of the same names in shops and on marketplace. What gives? Why is it ok for some and not for others. My thoughts are that someone didn't like competition so reported me.... well fair game. Lets get them ALL off the market then. Well to answer your question...it's not ok for you or for others. The deal is they just haven't been caught yet. Plain and simple. Their time will come and Iwouldn't be surprised if they just relisted the item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Boyle Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I really don't understand this. If LL received a DMCA notification from the entity that owned the rights, which is the only one that can legally file one, they should have removed the allegedly infringing content themselves. Then it would have been up to you to file a counter-notification, after which LL would restore it. But you say, "I removed them...," which makes me think that there was something going on besides the DMCA process. I can only speculate that a third party complained, that LL they conveyed the complaint to you, and that you voluntarily removed the content. Is that what happened? Can you post the message you received from LL verbatim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Ewan Loordes wrote: My issue is there are several costumes of the same names in shops and on marketplace. What gives? Why is it ok for some and not for others. My thoughts are that someone didn't like competition so reported me.... well fair game. Lets get them ALL off the market then. It is not okay for others. The only difference between you and others is, the others didn't get cought but you did. It is not so simply that you can just report someone because you don't like the competition. You cannot file a dmca when you are not the copyright owner. When LL tells you you infringe on Marvel copyrights, it is obvious that Marvel did claim and filed the dmca. When it is a competitor he is taking high risks to get your products out of the market. Cause in that case he is claiming that he is a copyright agent from Marvel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Ewan Loordes wrote: I produced some classic costumes of batman, wonder woman etc. I got a notice from LL saying they infringed on Mavel comics copyrights. That sounds a bit odd. They can't possibly have infringed Marvel's copyrights, since Batman and Wonder Woman are DC characters. And, while Marvel, or so I'm told, guard their copyrights quite jealously, DC apparently take quite a tolerant view of fan art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Everything you need to know about Linden Labs and fairness in copyright enforcement, you can learn from Boston Linden's profile picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casandra Kumsung Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 The fact is that some companies do not care. BBC does not seem to have a problem with their characters being made and sold in Second Life but Disney and others do so LInden keeps up with those that do does The answer is make your owne stuff!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Something about this situation sounds iffy. If Marvel or DC had come to LL with copyright claims, they wouldnt't stop with a single merchant. They'd want it all shut down. LL might even be in legal trouble. Which means this actually IS selective enforcement by LL, or another resident filed a copyright claim and LL acted on it. EIther way, it means what we already knew. LL is bad at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Spica Inventor wrote: L.L. makes a lot of money on copyright infringement... Bingo! That is the crux of the problem here. LL's odd behavior in respect to copyrights makes sense when you realise a revenue stream is being protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 What happens is: 1 Someone from Marvel sees a Wolverine Av on Google from the Marketplace. 2 They inform the legal Dept of Marvel. 3 Legal informs LL with a DMCA on THAT particular item only. 4 LL informs the Merchant to remove it, or they do it themselves. 5 LL removes all incarnations of that AV from SL. 6 Marvel emploee finds another AV and informs Legal again. 7 Rinse and repeat. DMCAs are specific, they are not a blanket removal. it covers only the merchants listed in the DMCA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Ewan Loordes wrote: I produced some classic costumes of batman, wonder woman etc. I got a notice from LL saying they infringed on Mavel comics copyrights. OK. accepted. I should have considered that before putting them up for sale.. So.. I removed them from my shop and Marketplace. I did not want to get myself or LL in trouble. My issue is there are several costumes of the same names in shops and on marketplace. What gives? Why is it ok for some and not for others. My thoughts are that someone didn't like competition so reported me.... well fair game. Lets get them ALL off the market then. As was stated by Innula, those are DC superheroes, not Marvel. This smells fishy to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Ever hear of a game called City of Heroes? A similar thing happened there. Someone created The Hulk over there. Marvel got wind of it, and went after the whole company to make sure it wouldn't happen again. To avoid being shut down, they (CoH) had to restrict creation names and actively hunt any offenders and take them down, as well as ban people that repeatedly did it- all without Marvel having to get involved for each case. Many Marvel copyrighted names are filtered by the system- you get an error when you try to use them. If Marvel saw their copyright repeatedly infringed in SL, you bet they'd take LL to court the same way they did with CoH and impose the same requirements on LL, if not more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrable Amat Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Yeah it is all a matter of being busted not who or when,the fact is I find it funny how a simple search can sniff out most of this. To me it only make sense to have a system when something of that nature is found and knowing copycatting,common themes are just a fact of the markets in SL.... Knowing damn well when you contact a seller of this they in turn would only naturally search them self for others hawking off a well known absolutely no way in that place the call HELL did you just not think marvel and LL would NOT have a problem with your blatant refusal of being a honest vendor and having to be caught red handed with as stated 100% known copyright infringement material so they can come on the forums and play victim to their own crime as they are bitter their exploited money sale are lost and some one else is still profiting..... I am sorry but I just find it hard to have pity for people who read and agree to rules when signing up to the market place and just have to test the thickness of the ice under their feet, at the reality it could cost many others if some smart lawyer found away around the TOSS user agreement and drove their millions in law suit strait at Linden labs .Most likely effecting every one else who enjoys honest creativity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Galli Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 wrable Amat wrote: I am sorry but I just find it hard to have pity for people who read and agree to rules when signing up to the market place and just have to test the thickness of the ice under their feet QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drake1 Nightfire Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Gadget Portal wrote: If Marvel saw their copyright repeatedly infringed in SL, you bet they'd take LL to court the same way they did with CoH and impose the same requirements on LL, if not more. Obviously they aren't looking then. There are a ton of them on the MP. Perhaps someone needs to drop them a letter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I think some of the selective enforcement may be explained by the principle of deminimus. If I understand correctly, there is currently no deminimus angle on copyright, but the principle might eventually be indirectly applicable to something at some point. It's not necessarily to DC's advantage to stop fans from producing fan product unless it stands to directly compete; in fact, it may be to their immediate favor to allow the free publicity. But they still have to do something, occasionally, to someone. Otherwise when it comes up in court (once they decide this is necessary) that they've been aware of the more general problem for years and done nothing about it, that doesn't help their case. Much more likely, though, is the same principle being applied within DC's legal department. Some guy is probably assigned to police copyright for a specific collection of IP items and he probably just files one DMCA notice against each violator before moving on to the next. In that sense, it's nonselective enforcement. DC figures they just need to warn everybody often enough to justify one lawyer's retainer. They probably just have list of violators and a list of DMCA notices filed and don't revisit them as long as they have any fresher ones to file. I think it's just bizarre, though, that LL continues to let Boston Linden use the Wall E picture on his profile, especially after Disney has been informed and after LL has been informed that Disney has been informed. If people want to worry about LL enforcing things, I suppose that's their right, but it's probably going to be a very counterproductive use of their mental energy I have plenty of items for which I would not be able to produce proof of IP, but I'm simply not going to lose any sleep over it as long as I keep seeing Wall E on Boston Linden's account picture. We all have legal responsibilities, sure. But if LL is supposed to be providing any kind of ethical exemple, then we might as well assume that, barring an actual DMCA notice, there are practically no rules here at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Innula Zenovka Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Gadget Portal wrote: If Marvel saw their copyright repeatedly infringed in SL, you bet they'd take LL to court the same way they did with CoH and impose the same requirements on LL, if not more. Obviously they aren't looking then. There are a ton of them on the MP. Perhaps someone needs to drop them a letter? This is what puzzles me. The OP cannot, to my mind, in the normal course of events have received a communication from Linden Lab that said "We have received a complaint from Marvel Comics about your selling outfits based on Superman and Wonder Woman." any more than would someone receive a communication to the effect that "Coca Cola have complained about your using the Pepsi logo." Various possibilities present themselves. Someone at LL may have made a silly mistake when writing the email; he received a communication from DC and, for some reason, wrote "Marvel". Or the OP may have made a similar mistake in writing the post. Or LL may have fallen for a -- to my mind, perfectly transparent -- hoax perpetrated by a very incomptent hoaxer. It would be helpful to know what LL actually said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Innula Zenovka wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: Gadget Portal wrote: If Marvel saw their copyright repeatedly infringed in SL, you bet they'd take LL to court the same way they did with CoH and impose the same requirements on LL, if not more. Obviously they aren't looking then. There are a ton of them on the MP. Perhaps someone needs to drop them a letter? This is what puzzles me. The OP cannot, to my mind, in the normal course of events have received a communication from Linden Lab that said "We have received a complaint from Marvel Comics about your selling outfits based on Superman and Wonder Woman." any more than would someone receive a communication to the effect that "Coca Cola have complained about your using the Pepsi logo." Various possibilities present themselves. Someone at LL may have made a silly mistake when writing the email; he received a communication from DC and, for some reason, wrote "Marvel". Or the OP may have made a similar mistake in writing the post. Or LL may have fallen for a -- to my mind, perfectly transparent -- hoax perpetrated by a very incomptent hoaxer. It would be helpful to know what LL actually said. Agreed, I'd love to see the actual wording used. Something about this situation is just wrong (besides the selective copyright enforcement). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casandra Kumsung Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I am sure that Linden decides who's products they ban from internal complaints. I have read a number of post of someone selling stuff and it being banned but someone else keeps selling it. So get rid of a competitor by filing a copyright complaint. Seems to work. Been in SL for years and Marvel stuff has always been sold, have a wonderwoman avatar myself. And keep hearing about people selling marvel costumes and avatars getting their stuff removed but others keep selling them. I Suspect that It is too much for Linden to keep track of so they have to rely on tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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