Is it the wrong time to buy scripted furniture?

[Jennifer Boyle]

I recently became aware that it is possible for scripted furniture to work without poseballs using systems like npose, AVsitter, and, perhaps, others.  I think this is a great step forward.  When I went shopping, it appeared that most furniture makers are still using poseballs.  I never did find anything that was what I wanted in all respects.  The items that used the no pose ball technology lacked other desirable features.

I'm thinking that this is a time of transition, and I would be better to defer purchases a few months until more creators have adopted the new technology, when I expect there will be a full range of choices of items using it.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

That's not new tech... poseballs have their use, but they were not necessary as far back as I can recall (just a few years). It's just that there's lots of creators who have no clue about what the hell they're doing.

If the item is mod _and_ has the animations in it, you can replace the scripts and toss the poseballs.

[Innula Zenovka]

Well, nPose has been around for good two or three years, and is quite widely used, and Perfect Sitter was around well before that.   I think AVsitter is rather more recent, but, while it's very good, I don't see it's going to persuade lots of people to switch from MPLV or Xpose (the poseball systems) where the others didn't.

For what it's worth, my business partner and I use a variety of animation systems -- some of our stuff uses MLPV, some nPose, some PerfectSitter and some I script myself if we're not satisfied with the results from the pre-made systems.    We've recently bought copies of AVsitter, too, and are still evaluating it to see what, in particular, we'd want to use it in.   But I can't see us abandoning MLPV in the foreseeable future.

 We might -- I stress might -- use AVsitter for new stuff where previously we'd have used MLPV (I don't know) but  I certainly can't see us updating existing MLPV-based stuff to use something else.  

So, I really wouldn't hold off buying something you like the look of in the hope that it'll be available in a poseball-free edition in a few months' time.   

You mention items using the "no pose ball technology" lacking some desirable features.    Obviously it depends on what these features are, but -- in general -- if we decide we want to use a particular system but there's something it won't do that we want it to, that's not a drawback.   I simply write something that can hook into whatever system we're using to make it do what we want.  

People who make such systems expect scripters to do that -- they publish APIs to help us, and are, in my experience, unfailingly helpful when I get stuck and ask them for advice.   So if the particular item doesn't do something, to my mind, it's probably because the maker didn't think it was necessary to include that functionality rather than because it can't be done.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Other than having no pose balls, a variety of poses for singles and couples, and the furniture rezzing or giving appropriate props to use for various animations (such as a book for reading animations, popcorn for a movie watching animations etc.), what features are you looking for?  Or is it more that you can't find the style that you want?

 

[PeterCanessa Oh]

There hasn't been a step forward:

As I said last week "... But pose-balls were never 'necessary' in this sense, they just offer the simplest way to package and position animations, especially co-ordinated ones like dances.  They also have the advantage that they do not need an animation-permission menu when you 'sit' on them."

Scipts need to live somewhere in-world so you'll need at least 1 prim rezzed, but that can control every animation you want, be it a poseball, the furniture itself, part of a building or hidden under the ground.

[Pussycat Catnap]

Furniture lacking poseballs has been the norm since at least when I returned in mid 2009.

I've rarely seen poseballed furniture. Everytime I see it I just kind of laugh...

 

[Jennifer Boyle]

Thanks for the helpful replies.

@Jenni  I hadn’t thought of replacing the scripts.  Perhaps I will try it.

@Innula  I will have to visit your shop.

@Amethyst  I’m looking for all of the following:  high quality in terms of appearance; a style that I like; no pose balls; high quality animations; certain animations; modifiability.  For example, I found very nice-looking items with very nice animations and props, but it lacked a few animations that I wanted.  I asked the creator if I would be able to add notecards and animations.  She said that wouldn’t work because it used AVsitter, which would give stack errors if there were too many animations.  I found found others that had all the features I wanted but used pose balls.  Etc. 

@Pussycat  I must be going to the wrong places.  Where do you shop?

[Qie Niangao]

It's always "a time of transition" so it's probably not going to be productive to wait for sudden enlightenment among furniture makers.

MLP and commercial systems contemporary with its introduction were forced to use poseballs because, way back then, llSetLinkPrimitiveParams() did not yet exist, so there was no way to move a seated avatar without moving the entire object on which they were seated.  Thus, an unlinked poseball was that "entire object" in order for scripts to dynamically change seating positions for one or more avatars.

Also, while I don't recommend waiting for the great Enlightenment, I do recommend first assessing script time and memory usage before buying any piece of furniture.  There are some engines out there that are just absurdly inefficient, and some furniture makers who can turn even efficient engines into nightmares of inefficiency.  A recent change is the ability for buyers to see that before making a purchase.  It would be a good transition indeed if that caused a change in buying habits.

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

I shop just about anywhere. Its rare for me to even find an item with poseballs on it.

There are 4 states to this though, and maybe you means the third one?:

1. Poseball is always out there and visible. Even when no one is sitting on the item.

2. The same as above, only the maker had the sense to put a transparent texture/setting on the poseball so the item isn't so ugly.

3. No poseball until you click it and select from a menu, then the ball rezzes and you sit on that. These started going away in 2009, so I still have a few of them.

4. No poseballs at all - before, during, or after the sitting process. MOst of what I see now is this.

 

Because it literally is everywhere I shop, its a bit broad to answer. And in the past fw months most of my furniture has been replaced again with mesh items. Though almost all my older stuff also lacks poseballs.

I used to have a sexbed that was style number 3 above - but got rid of it in favor of a 'general' rated bed with just sleep animations and no poseballs.

 

Kitchen / dining set I use was  Froukje Hoorenbeek

 Organica for my living room mesh parts, 

Ashtyn Ninetails for the sculpty older stuff.

 My bed says it was made by  azriel.demain

I have a church pew from a Maxwell Granity

A free recliner from LAQ Decor

Some deck chairs from Sera Lok. A basic chair from Tempura Xaris.

A dock from [TUFF]

A campfire from Katrina Kristan

 

And a lot of other stuff on other places...

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

Furniture lacking poseballs has been the norm since at least when I returned in mid 2009.

I've rarely seen poseballed furniture. Everytime I see it I just kind of laugh...

 

---

you are talking about the furnitire where the poseballs are always out?

i don't have any of that..but i do have the menu furniture that has poseballs..

my house also came with them built into the kitchen and bathroom and pool and  the furniture that goes in the slots where the hot tub outside and inside goes..

but it also have the non-poseball features built in to places like the sinks and vanity where you do your nails and hair in the bedroom or the cushion for talking on the phone and things like that..

it's nice having both..

the poseball stuff where they are just out there all the time..do people actually even make those anymore?

 

 

 

[Jennifer Boyle]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Also, while I don't recommend waiting for the great Enlightenment, I

do

recommend first assessing script time and memory usage before buying any piece of furniture.  There are some engines out there that are just absurdly inefficient, and some furniture makers who can turn even efficient engines into nightmares of inefficiency.  A recent change is the ability for buyers to see that before making a purchase.  It would be a good transition indeed if that caused a change in buying habits.

 

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I did not know about that.  Thanks for the useful tip.

[Jennifer Boyle]

I'm talking about furniture that never has poseballs; a menu pops when you sit on it.  Thanks for the tips.

[Couldbe Yue]

I feel so completely unfashionable!!

Let me tell you why I still use the MLP and poseballs for my big multi user, multi anim items.  It's really simple, poseballs are an easy indicator to anyone with a passing competency in sl that they need to sit to make it work and what is better, is that the balls can be stereotyped by colour to give a quick signpost to which gender and I have mine set to sit on touch.  With poseball-less systems you need a way to tell the user how to get the anims happening (since it's not always touch anywhere to sit) and usually they have to be in a specific gender or other order. 

so, unless it's a one av item with the sit icon when you hover over it, the ease of use factor drops when there's no poseballs.  Not everyone is completely technically adept with sl nor does everyone speak english if you put the instructions in the description field for a mouseover and for those with disabilities, it's a lot easier than fumbling around trying to find the right prim to right click or touch that may or may not work.

that's my tuppence and my customers seem to be pretty cool with it.

(and my poseballs don't pretend to hide by becoming transparent but still have the scripts running, mine actually get poofed until someone not only touches the item but selects an animation, therefore they don't get rezzed unnecessarily)

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Couldbe Yue wrote:

I feel so completely unfashionable!!

Let me tell you why I still use the MLP and poseballs for my big multi user, multi anim items.  It's really simple, poseballs are an easy indicator to anyone with a passing competency in sl that they need to sit to make it work and what is better, is that the balls can be stereotyped by colour to give a quick signpost to which gender and I have mine set to sit on touch.  With poseball-less systems you need a way to tell the user how to get the anims happening (since it's not always touch anywhere to sit) and usually they have to be in a specific gender or other order. 

so, unless it's a one av item with the sit icon when you hover over it, the ease of use factor drops when there's no poseballs.  Not everyone is completely technically adept with sl nor does everyone speak english if you put the instructions in the description field for a mouseover and for those with disabilities, it's a lot easier than fumbling around trying to find the right prim to right click or touch that may or may not work.

that's my tuppence and my customers seem to be pretty cool with it.

(and my poseballs don't pretend to hide by becoming transparent but still have the scripts running, mine actually get poofed until someone not only touches the item but selects an animation, therefore they don't get rezzed unnecessarily)

 

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for businesses and public places i think those are probably the best thing to have..

for my home i like the system they used in my abiss home..which is a mix of the other two kinds where you have to rezz the poseballs or just sit on the furniture..

the ones in public ..even if there isn't any hover text ..i always get curious what they will do lol

if curiosity was to ever kill this cat .it would be by a lone poseball sitting out in the middle of anywhere..

i'll probably click it to see what happens next hehehehe..

and yes i agree about the color coding for the poseballs being helpful in telling who sits where..

 

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

This thread has piqued my interest. Are there really sex beds (and other such furniture) out there that don't use poseballs? I can fully understand the simpler stuff, like chairs with various sit anims, only one of which can be chosen at a time, but is there pose-ball-free, mutli-user furniture out there?

[Phil Deakins]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Also, while I don't recommend waiting for the great Enlightenment, I

do

recommend first assessing script time and memory usage before buying any piece of furniture.  There are some engines out there that are just absurdly inefficient, and some furniture makers who can turn even efficient engines into nightmares of inefficiency.  A recent change is the ability for buyers to see that before making a purchase.  It would be a good transition indeed if that caused a change in buying habits. 

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I'm perpetually out of touch these days, so how can a shopper see the script time and memory usage of an item?

[Jenni Darkwatch]

AFAIK you only can if you have a script/HUD and if the object you're buying is rezzed somewhere (often the case for furniture). I sent you a low-lag HUD inworld I made for my own use. Use, modify, pass it on, sell it if you like.

[Jennifer Boyle]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

This thread has piqued my interest. Are there really sex beds (and other such furniture) out there that don't use poseballs? I can fully understand the simpler stuff, like chairs with various sit anims, only one of which can be chosen at a time, but is there pose-ball-free, mutli-user furniture out there?

---

Absolutely, Phil.  I'll happily show you, but we have to keep our clothes on, so it will only be a dry hump.

 

[Phil Deakins]

I'd be very interrested to see, Jennifer. And don't worry about clothes. I grew out of pixel sex some years ago, so clothes on is perfect for me.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

try here...

 

[Clarissa Lowell]

What style of furniture are you looking for? I can send you some landmarks next time I am in world.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Jennifer Boyle wrote:

I'm talking about furniture that never has poseballs; a menu pops when you sit on it.  Thanks for the tips.

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So was I.

People who claim I was talking about other types of furniture were placing assumptions on me.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Jennifer Boyle wrote:

I'm talking about furniture that never has poseballs; a menu pops when you sit on it.  Thanks for the tips.

---

So was I.

People who claim I was talking about other types of furniture were placing assumptions on me.

 

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myself i wasn't making any claims or assuming at all in my response ..i was only asking which poseball furniture you were saying you laugh at..because you really didn't say which one it was..just poseball furniture..

if it is the furniture that has them out all the time or the type that rezzes from the menu? or both? hehehe

more a curiosity than anything really..

[Jennifer Boyle]

Thanks for the explanation.  What you say makes sense, especially for public and quasi-public places.  For a private venue, or my home anyway, I think the esthetic disadvantage outweighs the ease-of-use advantage.

[PeterCanessa Oh]

And saving a few prims; sometimes that's significant :-)