When to report a Merchant for abusing the keyword search

[Jasmine Edenflower]

I am new as a Merchant in MP but have been in SL for a long time and I am sure there are a multitude of threads about this but I am not finding them so I am going to start another.

I have noticed several Merchants that when I do a keyword search their items show up, but their items aren't really related.  I have been careful about my keywords.  I don't want to waste anyone's time putting my clothes in the wrong categories or classifications.  I realize I might be naive but from my point of view when I have searched for something and found a ton of unrelated items I tend to get mad at the Merchant for spamming me.  I would like to complain but am almost afraid to.  Any thoughts or am I just SOL.

 

[Darren Scorpio]

Don't be afraid to. As a consumer it bothers the sh** out of me when merchants do this, I really don't like seeing pages of junk unrelated to what I am looking for. At the moment the keyword being badly used the most is "Mesh". 

[Ariel Vuissent]

Bothers the crud out of me, as well. It's irritating. If I'm looking for a jacket, I don't want to see your fully furnished skybox. Report away! You'll be doing most of us a favor, honestly. The merchant will not know who reported their item(s), so there's nothing to fear there; and if the complaints are justified, LL won't care who's doing the reporting.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I agree with the other posters.  Report them.  I too am tired of searching for a specific item and having all types of unrelated products show up in the search results. Sometimes it is so ridicules  over half the things that turn up are totally unrelated.  It wastes my time having to wade through it all and it does the merchant no good.  If I looking for a specific item I certainly not going to buy something unrelated.

[TaraSimone Sixpence]

As a merchant I will say abusing keywords is a pain when you are looking for something. But people, please bear in mind that you have no idea what keywords the merchant is using, and it could be it is not the merchant's fault but that of the system that throws up unrelated material. Just because we type in a specific search parameter and get items that don't belong does not always mean it is coming from the merchant. It may be coming from the system itself. So you really have to be careful "reporting".

The system as well is very puritan. For instance if you write "open top which covers up the nipples" you will probably have the system move that into a Mature or Adult category because of the use of the word nipples, even if this product is just a top. I have had this done with a collection which is called "Sexy Bi*ch" (the t is used in place of the star). It is a full jacket, pants and boots. But because of the name it was considered "Adult".

So rememeber sometimes it is not the merchant but the system. But if you feel the keywords are totally misused by the merchant over and over again, then do report them.

[Irene Muni]

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Random Sixpence wrote:

But people, please bear in mind that you have no idea what keywords the merchant is using, and it could be it is not the merchant's fault but that of the system ...

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In Firefox Ctrl+U shows the keywords. And if it is a system problem and it is not a merchant fault, Linden Lab will see that.

[Sassy Romano]

"mesh" isn't necessarily being badly used because there was nothing wrong with listing something such as a "mesh shirt" which means fishnet style mesh or "shoes with a mesh strap". 

Blame LL for calling their feature "mesh"!

Further, blame LL (Commerce Team) for failing to respond to requests to implement a search for "mesh object" when there's already a listing option that lets the merchant state that it's a mesh object.

Expect this feature right after the one that implements the two lines of code that sends an email to the merchant after a review is left

[Sera Lok]

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Random Sixpence wrote:

As a merchant I will say abusing keywords is a pain when you are looking for something.

But people, please bear in mind that you have no idea what keywords the merchant is using, and it could be it is not the merchant's fault but that of the system that throws up unrelated material.

Just because we type in a specific search parameter and get items that don't belong does not always mean it is coming from the merchant. It may be coming from the system itself.

So you really have to be careful "reporting".

So rememeber sometimes it is not the merchant but the system. But if you feel the keywords are totally misused by the merchant over and over again, then do report them.

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This.  I researched some weeks ago with keywords, looking at all the keywords, feature list, and title of item, of listings that didn't seem to match up to the search I was doing.  Some listings that show up in a certain search don't even contain the word I was searching for. Go figure.  So if you are going to report, please do the extra step of checking keywords etc to make sure the merchant is actually doing it on purpose and deserves to be reported. Otherwise you need to report LL itself for having a crappy search engine on the marketplace. ^^

 

[Nefertiti Nefarious]

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Jasmine Edenflower wrote:

I have noticed several Merchants that when I do a keyword search their items show up, but their items aren't really related.

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I report a merchant for keyword abuse whenever their items show up inappropriately when I am searching for things. If I am looking for a lamb, and they have labelled all their pigs as lambs, I report them. I do it because if they are making search less useful, it hurts all the merchants ... including me.

Reports are anonymous, so don't worry about it.  Reports are reviewed by a real human before anything happens to the listing. Also - I heard this a long time ago - accurate reports tend to get you on the list of people whose reports get looked at first, and inaccurate reports get you on the list of people whose reports are low priority.

NOTE: to see the keywordsa someone is using, in Firefox, use the "View Page Source" tool. The keywords will be near the top of the page as

meta name="keywords" content=

For example, my bloody footprint textures are

meta name="keywords" content="Halloween, murder, crime scene, bloody,"

[Nefertiti Nefarious]

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Random Sixpence wrote:

As a merchant I will say abusing keywords is a pain when you are looking for something.

But people, please bear in mind that you have no idea what keywords the merchant is using, and it could be it is not the merchant's fault but that of the system that throws up unrelated material.

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You can see the keywords a merchant is using ... look at the "page source" for the listing page.

Search works from the listing title, the keywords, the features, and (maybe) the first few characters of the description.

[Lasher Oh]

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Sera Lok wrote:

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This.  I researched some weeks ago with keywords, looking at all the keywords, feature list, and title of item, of listings that didn't seem to match up to the search I was doing.  Some listings that show up in a certain search don't even contain the word I was searching for. Go figure.  So if you are going to report, please do the extra step of checking keywords etc to make sure the merchant is actually doing it on purpose and deserves to be reported. Otherwise you need to report LL itself for having a crappy search engine on the marketplace. ^^

 

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I wholeheartedly agree with this Sera. The search is  borked. I've come across results that have been thrown up front that don't contain the search word anywhere either in the keywords, the title or the features. We are told that the description  isn't included anymore but I'm not convinced about that either.

It particularly annoys me when the first half dozen returns don't even hold the keyword in the title - wouldn't mind so much if they had given us similar filtering tools like we had with good old Xstreet.

As for snitching on merchants who have been 'liberal' with their keywords - I don't snitch and won't snitch because there are always two sides to every case and most often it comes down to a judgement call such as a black evening gown also using the keyword 'goth' and if it happens to be a gown using a bit of fishnet on the upper bodice then  deploying 'mesh' as a keyword also legitimate.

Until LL give us search features that are actually accurate and can be better filtered then I urge folks not to do LLs job for them by acting as vigilante keyword  agents.

^L^

[Deja Letov]

I would report only after verifying their keywords. Just because they come up in a search, doesn't mean they are busing the system, it means the marketplace search is sometimes jacked up.  I once had a beef because when I searched for gothic furniture, a dance hud would come up in the #1 position because the word gothic and furniture appeared somewhere within their description. They weren't abusing either, it was legitimate use of the words, it's just that the marketplace search puts more weight on sales and popularity than it does on relevance...kind of ironic when you are searching for relevance but whatever.

[Ariel Vuissent]

I've noticed some merchants that seem to copy and paste keywords into ALL of their products. For instance, someone who sells farm animals, buildings, and equipment might use the keywords "pig, lamb, farm, horse, fence, tractor, sheep" etc. for their barn, all of their animals, their farm vehicles, etc. Which is extremely irritating when you're just looking for a horse, and you get other animals and barns and tractors popping up, too.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

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Ariel Vuissent wrote:

I've noticed some merchants that seem to copy and paste keywords into ALL of their products. For instance, someone who sells farm animals, buildings, and equipment might use the keywords "pig, lamb, farm, horse, fence, tractor, sheep" etc. for their barn, all of their animals, their farm vehicles, etc. Which is extremely irritating when you're just looking for a horse, and you get other animals and barns and tractors popping up, too.

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Right, and as long as they allow bulk edit on the keyword field, you'll find some sellers with the same keywords on many products. Doesn't help that they perpetuate the problem.

[Rosemaery Lorefield]

Well I hope everyone who's tattle happy is actually checking keywords before they report. If you all haven't noticed, the Marketplace is totally borked

 

[Perrie Juran]

I was going crazy because whenever I'd search for Martian accessories it kept returning naked human skins. Dozens of them.   I started AR'ing until I realized the merchants name was "Martian."  I guess one of my fellow Martians was trying to help us move incognito amongst all you Humans.

On a side note it would be nice if Boolean terms worked in marketplace search. 

[Princess Verwood]

Nice tip Irene, I would of never of thought of that. I agree with everyone about reporting. Personally, I'd check first by looking at the page source (the crtl and u) to make sure I wouldn't be making false reports. Keyword spamming only makes the consumer angry for getting spammed and makes other merchants mad because they're listings are being possibly bumped down due to keyword spamming.

[Irene Muni]

Thanks Princess

 

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

On a side note it would be nice if Boolean terms worked in marketplace search. 

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Totally agree. See https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4113

[Perrie Juran]

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Irene Muni wrote:

Thanks Princess

 

 

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Perrie Juran wrote:

On a side note it would be nice if Boolean terms worked in marketplace search. 

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Totally agree. See

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4113

 

 

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I have a suspicion that key words in general make the use of Boolean terms an effort in futility.

Do a search for "horse."  Then try "horse not breedable."

[Calamari]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

I was going crazy because whenever I'd search for Martian accessories it kept returning naked human skins. Dozens of them.   I started AR'ing until I realized the merchants name was "Martian."  I guess one of my fellow Martians was trying to help us move incognito amongst all you Humans.

On a side note it would be nice if Boolean terms worked in marketplace search. 

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There's a separate tab on the market place for searching by Merchant or Store name.  When SL had last names you had to chose, there were several that were item or community names, these caused huge issues with keyword spamming, a good example of this was the last name Tophat. 

I did a search for the word "Martian" out of the first 5 pages there are only 8 items that are not keyword spam. 

There's a huge problem with keyword spamming in general on the maketplace and most of it I don't think is intentional, there is nothing requiring a new merchant to read the policy first, and the part describing what keyword spamming is is only one sentence long, and LL claims is intentionally vague.

     https://marketplace.secondlife.com/listing_guidelines

     "Keyword spam is the use of words (such as brand names, item names, or other terms) that have nothing to do with 

      the item listed so that the listing will appear in search results."

With all the Martian key word spamming I can see why some one from Mars might want to use a PT30 Modulator to blow up the Earth,  but untill LL makes a clearer policy, that people have to read, this this is going to be an ongoing issue.  It won't stop people who are gaming keywords but it will at lest help people who don't undrstand the current policy, and reduce the frustration of getting flagged and not know why.  In the case of the keyword Martian all so being a last name my guess is that most the people don't even know there name is throwing search off for your items.

I agree with the people saying it's a bad time to flag things because of all the marketplace DD issues with images and listing getting messed up.  My suggestion would be to put in a ticket explaining the whole situation with the Martian keyword and name issue,  LL will some times do a sweep of an entire category for issues like this.  I don't like to flag things any more because I don't like how LL deals with it, by not letting the person know why they were flagged, but I do like to let LL know as often as I can there's a problem with their keyword spamming policy.

CORRECTION:

after doing some research by looking at the page source for several listing, avatar name dose not need to be in the keyword list for it to be in search, which suggest the LL doesn't even read a ticket all the way through before responding to it, I've asked question about this in at least half a dozen tickets.

 

 

[Irene Muni]

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Calamari wrote:

... there is nothing requiring a new merchant to read the policy first ...

 

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When you create a store in MP you must click to accept the "Terms of Service and Listing Policies". Of course we can "click" the accept button without read that specific TOS, but that is not a fault from Linden Lab.

[TaraSimone Sixpence]

I read the posts here again and I am a bit amazed at the standards you are holding up a search engine built by LL.

1. For those of you who ever did a search on Google or any search engine, even Google will admit 90% of the answers have nothing to do with the term you entered or the information you require.
2. So you will say here, that the Keywords determine it all. Simply NOT true. Folks, any search engine, take Amazon for instance, uses "Categories" & "Search Keywords" plus information in the description their engine flags as "unique" or "special". Books can end up in categories they were never flagged for by the authors or publishers. Search engines do not only work on keywords of the person who input the information. (Try Amazon, Wikipedia etc. for examples) Search engine algorithims are helped by keywords they are not the only determination.
3. For those who want to be keyword police, go to the source of the page and look up the keywords, go right ahead. Be my guest. I dont know about others here but I have a great deal more important things to do than "Policing Keywords".
4. Yes it is annoying. Yes some merchants do take advantage. Yes it is a pain. I do not think though, this is the red flag that everyone should be gathering around in the MP. There are so many things totally out of whack in the MP right now, (any merchant will tell you this), that policing keywords is about as low as you can get on the totem pole.
5. Yes, many people will find this attitude incredibly annoying and friviolous especially since I am a merchant. I understand your frustration. But really, looking up source code to see the keywords so you can report the merchant???? I mean come on, breathe. live. Get a life. Pass on the picture and offer and go on to the next. May this be our biggest problem in SL!

[Calamari]

I don't think it's LL fault for people not reading it, but there seams to be a lot of people that don't and even if they do it's not clear or lacks clear examples that would help, like all most all other sections of the listing guide lines have.  The way LL deals with it too,  is more furstrating to people who made an honest mistake like having including thier avatar name in keywords, then it is effecive for stopping people who keep relisting the an item with the same keyword spam.  I just think there is lots of room for improvment on this issue and LL is in control of that.

CORRECTION:

after doing some research by looking at the page source for several listing, avatar name dose not need to be in the keyword list for it to be in search, which suggest the LL doesn't even read a ticket all the way through before responding to it, I've asked question about this in at least half a dozen tickets.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

I am very careful with my keywords.. if its a blue dress, i dont put green as a keyword. what i have found is there are a lot of lazy a$$ merchants that bulk edit their items and use keywords to cover everything they sell. Why should i see male genitalia when i search for Steampunk Motorcycles? what does Steampunk have to do with a schlong?

and yes , i flag them when i see them. takes a few seconds. and will help enormously.

[Ilyra Chardin]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

Why should i see male genitalia when i search for Steampunk Motorcycles? what does Steampunk have to do with a schlong?

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Was it steam powered? :-O

It's a mix of things - lazy merchants, search code that might need some tweaking and a complete lack of governance.  Of course, the commerce team does govern and police the category assignments, which usually results in a very confused new merchant trying to figure out what "not as advertised means” and trying to find a category that might fit.  I'd suggest that the removal of a listing should come with an explanation and guidance, but that's wishful thinking.  Besides, the Commerce team has better things to do - like fixing the tons of open JIRAs.