Why did LL break invisi prims?

[Penny Patton]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

The creators of those shoes need to be swamped with IMs and notecards by angry customers.

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Strongly disagree. This won't encourage anyone to update their products, especially those who've been on the grid for several years. If they're even still in-world, or creating.

The creators at this point owe their customers nothing, and likely created their products long before alpha layers were even conceived by LL. They're not to blame.

 

(No-one is.)

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I would say that this should be a lesson for all of us, content creators and customers alike, moving forward. No-mod attachments are always a bad idea.

 

 To the people suggesting Firestorm or other third party viewers, should this turn out to be an official deprecation of invisiprims so that they no longer render properly on official viewers, using a third party viewer to get around it could be just like Emerald Viewer's additional attachment points. You may see yourself fine, but if everyone else sees a broken avatar you're not really solving the issue, are you?

[Innula Zenovka]

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Deej Kasshiki wrote:

So is there a definitive/authoritative statement on invisiprims? I know about the current glitch with their rendering in v2.8 but that doesn't affect me as I'm using Snowglobe and/or Firestorm. What concerns me are the posts where people have stated that invisiprims are no longer to be supported and inferring that the glitch in v2.8 won't be fixed. What's the truth of this matter?

As someone who's worn furry avatars my entire time in SL and who owns dozens of avs that rely on invisiprims this could be a big deal and could determine whether I remain in SL or not. I will

not

go through my inventory modding all those avs.

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As far as I can make out from the jira, these black invisiprims are one manifestation of a whole series of issues caused by invisiprims not playing nicely with the new texture batching system.

Far from saying, "invisiprims aren't supported, so you'll just have to use alpha layers," LL seem to be doing their best to fix the problem.

[Persephone Emerald]

@ Ceera, This free pack includes an alpha layer that only hides the sole of the feet.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Lindaline-shoemasks/2367149

(Edit to Add link)

There are also other uses for invisiprims besides in clothing. For instance, they can be used to put a window into a solid wall, though unfortuately the wall becomes like an alpha texture in the process.

[Ceera Murakami]

Thank you for the link. Though I see the free ones are no-transfer, which means I either have to 'buy' them at 0 L$ for every avatar account that I have, or pay L$ for a full-perms set, even though I'll only be 'distributing' it to my own alts. It is at least a partial solution, however.

A few more things that Invisiprims are still needed for: Hiding he surface of Linden water intentionally, or hiding part of the avatar body as a function of the attachment, regardless of exact position on the avatar.

There's a beautiful sailing ship in SL that uses invisiprims quite well to allow you to go into the decks below the waterline, without it being obvious that when you passed through that hatch, you went under water. That will be broken forever when Invisiprims cease to function.

I've seen adult female attachments that use an invisiprim strategicly placed over the body cavity opening, so no matter where you position the female bits, the body cavity is not sealed off with the avatar's skin. That can NOT be done as a one-size-fits-all solution using avatar alpha layers.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Deej Kasshiki wrote:

 

As someone who's worn furry avatars my entire time in SL and who owns dozens of avs that rely on invisiprims this could be a big deal and could determine whether I remain in SL or not. I will

not

go through my inventory modding all those avs.

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All modern furry avatars are copy, mod, no-trans. Most for the last year have used alpha-maps rather than invisiprims.

So I have ZERO sympathy for a furry with an issue with the lack of invisiprims. Speaking as a furry. Mod it, or buy something more modern.

 

Its the humans that will have a rough time of it - most of their HUD shoes are no-mod, and those folks are now screwed.

 

That said, as Penny said, but for which I have a harsher view: you get what you deserve for buying no-mod.

If you support a no-mod merchant, tough. Unless LLs "fixes" this "bug" or undeprecates this deprecation - start shopping elsewhere. No one should have bought from a no-mod merchant to begin with, so its kind of a 'lesson learned the hard way.'

Get responsible with your money.

- That's what all those Libertarians and Republicans are always telling those of us from the ghetto - so I can't say I have much sympathy for well, at least a good number of the people this screws over.

 

[Syo Emerald]

Are you serious Cat? Not all of us are great at modding, especially if the avatar is not made for throwing the invisible prims away. And buying something more modern?! I hust want to kick you at the moment....I brought an avatar which was made last year. Isn't that modern enough for you? And if I had known that there is no alpha layer I wouldn't have brought it.....but now its to late...and I'm sitting here, trying to find an alpha layer and to catch those damn prims.

And yes, I'm angry.

[WolfBaginski Bearsfoot]

So all invisiprims are separate objects?

Er, I don't think so. Are you on the same Grid as me?

Another reason, it seems, not to use an "official" Viewer. 

[SweetPain Blackrain]

For those of us not tech savvy *points to self*, I don't think I'm following or maybe I'm just seeing this the wrong way.  First, I'm using the Parasite Demon avi which has its own alpha layer since it's a full mesh body, but ai've added the legs from the Kinzart Southern Dragon (no market link available) that uses invisiprims to hide the lower leg and foot.  So, the basic body is hidden well enough by the alpha layer, but the prim body for the Parasite Demon then cannot be altered to hide the feet and lower legs so I can remove the invisiprims from the dragon legs since the body is a full, one piece mesh.  From what I'm reading in these posts, it's looking like there is no solution to my particular issue?  Thanks in advance for any advice anyone can give.

[Kelli May]

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SweetPain Blackrain wrote:

For those of us not tech savvy *points to self*, I don't think I'm following or maybe I'm just seeing this the wrong way.  First, I'm using the

Parasite Demon avi

which has its own alpha layer since it's a full mesh body, but ai've added the legs from the Kinzart Southern Dragon (no market link available) that uses invisiprims to hide the lower leg and foot.  So, the basic body is hidden well enough by the alpha layer, but the prim body for the Parasite Demon then cannot be altered to hide the feet and lower legs so I can remove the invisiprims from the dragon legs since

the body is a full, one piece mesh

.  From what I'm reading in these posts, it's looking like there is no solution to my particular issue?  Thanks in advance for any advice anyone can give.

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It's just possible that the avi can be edited to hide some of the body, but this would depend on the mesh being constructed with multiple faces, and those faces being convenient for what you want to do. I notice that it is mod/copy, so you can experiment with it. I'll say right now that you'll be very lucky if the avi creator has broken the mesh down into faces that are in exactly the right place to hide just what you want, but it's worth a try.

More importantly, I notice that the avatar includes full-perm textures. You could download these to your computer, erase the areas that you want to hide, then upload back into SL. While you claim to be "not tech savvy", it isn't all that difficult with the right software... Photoshop or GIMP (free!) would be fine; some bundled photo-editing software or even Paint might be enough.

edited to change error on invisiprims... they do hide mesh

 

[Syo Emerald]

Remove the invisiprim and use a second alphalayer that exactly does cover the parts the invisiprims should have covered. Just ask in the Kinzart group, many users there can hand you free alphalayer that are good for furrylegs.

[Kelli May]

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Remove the invisiprim and use a second alphalayer that exactly does cover the parts the invisiprims should have covered. Just ask in the Kinzart group, many users there can hand you free alphalayer that are good for furrylegs.

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She's trying to hide parts of a mesh body which is showing through the Kinzart legs she's added. Adding another alpha layer isn't going to do anything.

[Innula Zenovka]

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Kelli May wrote:

edited to change error on invisiprims... they do hide mesh

 

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Do you mean they hide it under all circumstances, or that they only hide it for people whose graphics settings are sufficiently low for invisiprims to work at all (i.e. people with advanced lighting turned off)?

[Kelli May]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

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Kelli May wrote:

edited to change error on invisiprims... they do hide mesh

 

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Do you mean they hide it under all circumstances, or that they only hide it for people whose graphics settings are sufficiently low for invisiprims to work at all (i.e. people with advanced lighting turned off)?

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They hide it in the same circumstances that they hide the rest of the avatar. So yes, mostly without advanced lighting. On the Singularity viewer, invisiprims function even when advanced lighting is active. I still wouldn't recommend that anyone use them, given that you've no idea which viewer or settings anyone else is using. 

[FireFox Bancroft]

Quite honestly Invisiprims were a glitchy bug and should have never been relied on as a feature by any creator in SL, much like how Z-fighting shouldn't be relied on as a feature.

Creators paint themselves into a corner when they use bugs or glitches as features in their creations. It's bad practice. It's also a bad design decision and I would avoid any creator in SL that uses such techniques.

Why? Because such glitches and bugs eventually get fixed. Sure some of them are useful. E.G. Back in the beta days of Minecraft the minecart accleration bug. But eventually it was fixed and people complained but Mojang was smart enough to put something in to match with the removal of the bug and that was redstone tracks.

Think of the alpha-layer thing as a fix for the removal of Invisiprim. I know it's not exactly perfect but it's a better/safer alternative than relying on a glitch for a feature.

[Syo Emerald]

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Kelli May wrote:

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Remove the invisiprim and use a second alphalayer that exactly does cover the parts the invisiprims should have covered. Just ask in the Kinzart group, many users there can hand you free alphalayer that are good for furrylegs.

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She's trying to hide

parts of a mesh

bo

dy

which is showing through the Kinzart legs she's added. Adding another alpha layer isn't going to do anything.

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Then I understood her wrong. Because if she wears a complete, 100% mesh avatar then it not making any sense to add any sort of legs to it.

[SweetPain Blackrain]

This is where the "not tech savvy" part comes in.  Download to my computer how?  Erase and then save as what format so it stays invisible and doesn't become a giant white spot?  Reupload as what format?  And that's just the start of my questions.  Thank you for the help, though, I really do appreciate the effort.

[Innula Zenovka]

Unfortunately, in this particular instance making an alpha mask isn't going to work, since it won't hide prim or mesh attachments, but, for reference, I learned from this short video tutorial how to do what Kelli May describes, and it's ever so simple.

 

[Kelli May]

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SweetPain Blackrain wrote:

This is where the "not tech savvy" part comes in.  Download to my computer how?  Erase and then save as what format so it stays invisible and doesn't become a giant white spot?  Reupload as what format?  And that's just the start of my questions.  Thank you for the help, though, I really do appreciate the effort.

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As you correctly assume, it would be quite tricky for me to teach you what to do here on the forum. Not least because I have no idea which viewer you use, what editing software you have access to, and what degree of 'hand-holding' you need. It's actually a lot easier than it sounds. Iif you have GIMP or photoshop you could experiment... it's how a lot of people, myself included, learn how to do this kind of thing.

@Innula: I wasn't suggesting making a mask, but editing the texture on the mesh (the ad for the avatar says a full-perm texture is included). I didn't get to watch the whole tutorial you linked to, but some of it might well still be useful for learning how to work on a texture for SL.

[Teagan Tobias]

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valerie Inshan wrote:

Invisiprims are to be discontinued in the latest versions of the SL viewer. Alpha layers only will be supported. Yet invisipirms are working great in Firestorm although it is V2 based.

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Not taking the time to read everything here, but... if you use fire storm and your feet look good to you, they do not look good to people not using fire storm. It makes your feet look really bad. Stop using invisi prims because they are not supported by SL. Fire storm can't make others with different viewers see you like you do.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Kelli May wrote:

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Remove the invisiprim and use a second alphalayer that exactly does cover the parts the invisiprims should have covered. Just ask in the Kinzart group, many users there can hand you free alphalayer that are good for furrylegs.

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She's trying to hide

parts of a mesh

bo

dy

which is showing through the Kinzart legs she's added. Adding another alpha layer isn't going to do anything.

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Invisiprims even when around didn't hide everything perfectly anyway. Some mesh avatars are now coming with hideable parts - they split the texture map across the mesh into a series of zones and offer a HUD or something through which to choose portions to hide. I forget the name, but there is a developer that makes a full mesh bunny, phoenix, and serval, and some canine... and their bunny does this, maybe the others too.

- If you're buying a mesh body, and it doesn't offer good customization, shop elsewhere. At this point I would also say any non-free mesh body MUST be fitted mesh...