Why did LL break invisi prims?

[Perriwen Ock]

For the last several updates, I've been having constant problems with digi legs...it used to be that the whole leg was completely invisible, now the invisi prim is solid black on any leg I try, making it extremely unsightly. I've also noticed this same problem on some heads and feet. What's the deal with this, and is there ANY plan for a fix in the future?

[valerie Inshan]

Invisiprims are to be discontinued in the latest versions of the SL viewer. Alpha layers only will be supported. Yet invisipirms are working great in Firestorm although it is V2 based.

[Perriwen Ock]

So....does that basically make any avatars that use them useless without Firestorm, or can they be modded to be compatible?

[Marianne Little]

Can your viewer use alpha layers? I think almost all third party viewers support alpha layers, even if they don't support multiple layers. So if you don't like viewer 2, you can try a third party viewer who is based on viewer 1.

[valerie Inshan]

They are still working in SL V7. It seems this is a V2.8 issue. I personally will stick to Firestorm if V2.8 does not fix that.

[Freya Mokusei]

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valerie Inshan wrote:

Invisiprims are to be discontinued in the latest versions of the SL viewer. Alpha layers only will be supported. Yet invisipirms are working great in Firestorm although it is V2 based.

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Got a source for this? Seems like a weird thing to cull.

[valerie Inshan]

From a notorious shoe merchant:

"Viewers with alpha layers only.(Invisiprims can be provided for old viewers by contacting XXX"

[valerie Inshan]

But see this Q&A answered by Rolig for a solution:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Technical/with-the-latest-Viewer-2-download-my-shoes-are-showing-black-or/qaq-p/979771

[Syo Emerald]

I updated to 2.8 a few days ago (before I was on v2 2.6) and that was the first thing I noticed. But thats not a big problem, alphalayer look a way better, especially for digilegs at furry avatars....

Well, if you think of changing the viewer to continue using invisible prims, keep in mind others with the actuall version of viewer2 will (and maybe later other viewers that don't support the prims) see your bodyparts that contain them in a wrong way. Can look lick you have black things around your legs...or maybe no legs at all....

[Freya Mokusei]

Thanks. By the wording it's a bug, rather than a feature.

[Alazarin Mondrian]

Hello Perriwen. Yes invisiprims are finito. I had to spend a week replacing the invisiprims with alpha layers for all my avvies, outfits, alts, etc. It's not as hard as it might seem.

1] Wear a copy of the relevant alpha layer.

2] Locate the invisiprim on your attachment.

3] Remove the invisiprim script.

4] Remove the invisiprim texture, set the texture to 'blank' and 100% transparency.

5] Resize the insiprim to 0.01 X 0.01 X 0.01

6] Voilá. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I'll send you a collection of alpha layers & alpha layer textures when I'm in-world. Be sure to pass them around to your friends.

[Syo Emerald]

Ah....forgot one thing which may help some others who are looking into this thread. If your avatar comes with a hud, search if you can delete the invisible prims with it. (Worked for my furry avatar from DSD).

[Tristizia Demonista]

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Alazarin Mondrian wrote:

Hello Perriwen. Yes invisiprims are finito. I had to spend a week replacing the invisiprims with alpha layers for all my avvies, outfits, alts, etc. It's not as hard as it might seem.

1] Wear a copy of the relevant alpha layer.

2] Locate the invisiprim on your attachment.

3] Remove the invisiprim script.

4] Remove the invisiprim texture, set the texture to 'blank' and 100% transparency.

5] Resize the insiprim to 0.01 X 0.01 X 0.01

6] Voilá. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I'll send you a collection of alpha layers & alpha layer textures when I'm in-world. Be sure to pass them around to your friends.

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This is a valid solution, yes, BUT unfortunatly there are some items (shoes for example) where you simply can't "just" delete these Invisiprims  

[Ishtara Rothschild]

The creators of those shoes need to be swamped with IMs and notecards by angry customers.

[Freya Mokusei]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

The creators of those shoes need to be swamped with IMs and notecards by angry customers.

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Strongly disagree. This won't encourage anyone to update their products, especially those who've been on the grid for several years. If they're even still in-world, or creating.

The creators at this point owe their customers nothing, and likely created their products long before alpha layers were even conceived by LL. They're not to blame.

 

(No-one is.)

[Tristizia Demonista]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

The creators of those shoes need to be swamped with IMs and notecards by angry customers.

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Strongly disagree. This won't encourage anyone to update their products, especially those who've been on the grid for several years. If they're even still in-world, or creating.

The creators at this point owe their customers nothing, and likely created their products long before alpha layers were even conceived by LL. They're not to blame.

 

(No-one is.)

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No, i meant creators who put this stuff in their NEW products (small invisiprims on the ankles for example). So Ishtara is absolutly right on this

[Freya Mokusei]

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Tristizia Demonista wrote:

No, i meant creators who put this stuff in their NEW products (small invisiprims on the ankles for example). So Ishtara is absolutly right on this

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Be sure to keep this thread updated with the reactions you get. :smileywink:

[Tristizia Demonista]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

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Tristizia Demonista wrote:

No, i meant creators who put this stuff in their NEW products (small invisiprims on the ankles for example). So Ishtara is absolutly right on this

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Be sure to keep this thread updated with the reactions you get. :smileywink:

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Well, asking politly of course increases your chances dramatically

And i have to say, that the one creator i asked about this, was very nice and send me a pair WITHOUT them. So, a big "Thumps Up" there

 

[Ishtara Rothschild]

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

The creators of those shoes need to be swamped with IMs and notecards by angry customers.

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Strongly disagree. This won't encourage anyone to update their products, especially those who've been on the grid for several years. If they're even still in-world, or creating.

The creators at this point owe their customers nothing, and likely created their products long before alpha layers were even conceived by LL. They're not to blame.

 

(No-one is.)

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They're to blame for selling no-mod crap. There is no valid excuse for selling attachments without modify permission. If they had not been so paranoid and needlessly treated their paying customers like criminals, people could easily remove the invisiprims themselves and use their own alpha layers.

[Freya Mokusei]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

They're to blame for selling no-mod crap. There is no valid excuse for selling attachments without modify permission. If they had not been so paranoid and needlessly treated their paying customers like criminals, people could easily remove the invisiprims themselves and use their own alpha layers.

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Your cause is lovely.

Your logic however, is based on worst-case assumptions.

Good luck to you.

[Ishtara Rothschild]

The worst case is a wearable item without modify permission, which makes it impossible to properly adjust it for my avatar, delete laggy and unnecessary scripts that are a major contributor to lag in SL, or repair it in case LL breaks something. That is no assumption but a very common practice in SL which needs to stop.

[Tristizia Demonista]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

The worst case is a wearable item without modify permission, which makes it impossible to properly adjust it for my avatar, delete laggy and unnecessary scripts that are a major contributor to lag in SL, or repair it in case LL breaks something. That is no assumption but a very common practice in SL which needs to stop.

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Amen to that, especially the scripts part!!!

[Innula Zenovka]

Marine Kelley mentioned  this in her blog announcing her latest version of RLV (which is based on 2.8).  This is her suggested fix for the problem:

Note : If invisiprims render black on your screen (no matter whether you have Lighting and Shadows on or off), simply turn the "OctreeAttachmentSizeFactor" down to 1 (it is 4 by default). You can do this in the Advanced > Debug Settings menu.

[Freya Mokusei]

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Ishtara Rothschild wrote:

They're to blame for selling no-mod crap. There is

no valid excuse for selling attachments without modify permission

. If they had not been so

paranoid

and needlessly

treated their paying customers like criminals

, people could easily remove the invisiprims themselves and use their own alpha layers.

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Highlighted to show the assumptions I was referring to.

Regarding Modify permission, SL continues to employ a Buyer Beware policy. If a creator makes their creations No Modify intentionally (I'm sure many creators don't realise how limiting it is, which makes sending angry IMs/Notecards even sillier), then it's safe to assume the creator didn't want you to have the abilities you outline. Products sold are done so on the conditions of the creator.

I stand by my original point; bombarding creators with hostility is dumb and counter-productive.

[Tristizia Demonista]

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

Marine Kelley

mentioned  this in her blog

announcing her latest version of RLV (which is based on 2.8).  This is her suggested fix for the problem:

Note : If invisiprims render black on your screen (no matter whether you have Lighting and Shadows on or off), simply turn the "OctreeAttachmentSizeFactor" down to 1 (it is 4 by default). You can do this in the Advanced > Debug Settings menu.

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At least for me it's not about HOW they render, it's about GETTING RID of them (on my items). There are Alpha Layers for this kind of stuff!