Best Handling Car?

[Benson Gravois]

Has anyone found a good handling car that stays on the do roads and crosses sons well? Are there any that fit this description that are cheap?

[Resi Pfeffer]

As long as there already can be problems while just passing a sim border using your feet, i dont have any hope to pass to the next sim in a smooth way using a scripted vehicle.

[SAULGOODiE]

There's a few creators that make "Good Handling" cars, but only in terms of driveability. Smoothness of turning, acceleration, breaking, etc are all good things to look for, however when you mention Roads and Crossings, I assume you are talking about Crossing-Sims. For this, you will not be able to find a vehical that avoids skipping between Sims. Even our naked avatars experience hiccups moving from sim-to-sim, so imagine adding a prim heavy vehical into the equation! 

If you are really looking for a car that "Crosses Sims" well, I would suggest don't focus on the vehical, but the actual Sims you are driving on. There are many driving enthusiasts on the grid, and quite a few regions with racetracks and roadways far from the mainland with very little lag and catering towards high-performance. If you can find a Sim or Community of drivers/racers, you might be able to solve your problem. 

[ChinRey]

I don't suppose we should mention specific names here but there are three makers I know of (and probably a few I don't know of) who make their own models rather than use hastily uploaded stuff from the internet and - even more important - write their own efficient vehicle scripts. Most cars I've seen in SL use a rather clumsily made and very inefficient motorcycle script system and those will never handle sim crossings very well.

Sim crossing will always be tricky. Essentially what happens is that you log off from one sim and on to another. The new sim has to load everything you carry with you. That is bound to take a little bit of time but with efficient low lag objects and - above all - scripts and a little bit of care how you cross the border, you shouldn't usually run into big problems. It's not only about the vehicle btw, your avatar can cause just as much problems so keep it as low lag as possible, ideally a classic avatar, maybe some low lag hair and shoes and nothing else.

I once put a catamaran made by one of the three makers I didn't mention to the test, sailing all over Blake Sea at 45 knots speed (to save you the math: that means it took 11 seconds to cross a whole sim). I didn't even notice the 70-or-so simc rossings I did before I finally crashed and that was at a time when people were posting complaints here about how difficult Blake Sea sim crossings had become. A car is of course trickier than a boat in SL since it has to take ground level into account but even so, that should give you an idea what a well made vehicle can do.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Benson Gravois wrote:

Has anyone found a good handling car that stays on the do roads and crosses sons well? Are there any that fit this description that are cheap?

---

Most of the cars on the market currently are based on prefabricated models by a certain supplier and use a scripting system by another supplier. This particular scripting system, though versatile, doesn't make cars that cross sim borders well in my experience.

I find that the best-performing cars are ones by people who can do their own scripting, or at least who use simpler scripts. Right now my favorite low-budget cars are from a place called Movita, currently available only in-world:

http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Lusca/183/53/59

They're built using the same prefabs and the texturing and detailing is nothing to write home about but they use fairly efficient scripts and you can get some very good cars at low prices. Their prices start below $L100 and they offer a few free cars as well.

[ChinRey]

Since Theresa mentioned a name, I suppose I can too.

Two of the makers I had in mind were of course Arton Rotaru and Kaliska (Yetius Resident). They have lots of experience with SL vehicles and are quite unique (or is it "unique" when there are two of them?) in that they belong to the crème de la crème of SL content creators both as mesh makers and scripters. They don't make much regular street cars though and that may be a problem.

The third maker was GEMC, not qutie up to the Kaliska/Arton standards but still well ahead of the field.

If you want cheap, well Arcadia Asylum's good ol' cars are free for the asking, look cool and usually handle really well. Many of Arcadia's scripts were made by a professional progrmmer who is also an expert in making things move in SL and althoguh I haven't checked, I think he did some of her vehicle scripts as well.

Edit: Come to think of it, has Arduenn Schwarzman ever made cars? Sounds like something he would want to have a go at and as far as I know, he's never ever done a poor job.

[Bobbie Faulds]

Another option is to look for cars that are worn rather than you sitting in them. I have a motorcycle that I wear and have only the same problems I'd have walking across sim borders. The worn vehicles don't move as fast as those using the regular car scripts but they do tend to cross sims nicely.

[Codex Alpha]

Since Theresa and ChinRey mentioned names, and it is apparently okay to advertise stores, products and sims by name, as long as it's not yours,

I'd like to recommend;

Joey Thornhill, he makes amazing modern sports cars like the Maserati and Lambo. His detailed and superior work is an amazement to look at, you should check out his store, his products and head to his sim as well.

My second recommendation, a creator who is definitely not related to me in any way, nor is it an alt account of mine, or alternate store is Freddy Firebird. He is an amazing vehicle creator too.

Can't forget Porche Pete (pronounce Porsh-A Pete, by the way) and Kenny Kamaro, both icons in their own right, and definitely not affiliated with me in any way.

So good all of them, highly recommended, search for them on the marketplace and buy from them too.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

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entity0x wrote:

Since Theresa and ChinRey mentioned names, and it is apparently okay to advertise stores, products and sims by name, as long as it's not yours,

I'd like to recommend;

Joey Thornhill, he makes amazing modern sports cars like the Maserati and Lambo. His detailed and superior work is an amazement to look at, you should check out his store, his products and head to his sim as well.

My second recommendation, a creator who is definitely not related to me in any way, nor is it an alt account of mine, or alternate store is Freddy Firebird. He is an amazing vehicle creator too.

Can't forget Porche Pete (pronounce Porsh-A Pete, by the way) and Kenny Kamaro, both icons in their own right, and definitely not affiliated with me in any way.

So good all of them, highly recommended, search for them on the marketplace and buy from them too.

 

---

Should people be suspicious of those recommending landlords as well?

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion/Nice-landlord-Estate-with-cheap-HS/m-p/3088554#M14350

However, if the OP is actually still looking for useful information here are a few more car suppliers I've had good luck with:

I completely agree with ChinRey on Arton Rotaru and GEMC.

Manji is another carmaker with apparently unique content and excellent scripts: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Hakata/93/46/23

SUMI uses prefab cars but their scripts are very good: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Burns/243/51/64

If you want a wide variety of cars that drive well and have good feature sets but aren't the best on region-crossing, head to the car center at Crossing Sands where Cindy Henusaki Customs, Akioto and Hotaru are close together. All do a good job working with the standard prefabs and scripts, have moderate prices and offer driveable demos in an area where you can go through multiple regions: http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Urban%20Paradise/103/75/22

Amariah Francis of Gama Motors has good-handling vehicles using the common scripts and very low prices. Most of the vehicles are commercial types. http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Gama/211/207/36

 

 

 

[Benson Gravois]

Thankyou for the tip!!!

[Alwin Alcott]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

entity0x wrote:

Since Theresa and ChinRey mentioned names, and it is apparently okay to advertise stores, products and sims by name, as long as it's not yours,

 

---

Should people be suspicious of those recommending landlords as well?

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion/Nice-landlord-Estate-with-cheap-HS/m-p/3088554#M14350

 

---

don;t forget this one... https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/How-To-Advertise-Your-Store-Or-Product-Using-Sock-Accounts/td-p/3088224

 

[Qie Niangao]

This thread has been useful to me for identifying some makers of Mod-perm cars who had previously escaped my notice.

It's an unending source of amazement that anyone ever buys no-Mod cars. Newbies, maybe, but after generations of obsolesence (most dramatically, the great Havok upgrade, many years ago, that made so many physical vehicles uncontrollable, but even just Materials properties turn older no-Mod vehicles into mere historical curiousities), it's completely irresponsible to sell no-Mod vehicles of any kind.

The weirdest part about this is that some makers (including at least one named in this thread) offer different vehicles types with permissions specific to the market in which they compete. For example, quality boats are mostly Mod perm, trains practically all Mod perm, and airborne vehicles now in the process of migrating to Mod perm after a long, dark time when they, like cars, were mostly no-Mod. The point is, there's no possible excuse cars should be any different -- it's not as if there's any script complexity to finding those wheels if there's a CHANGED_LINK. I don't get it, and so far the only explanations I've heard amount to creator superstition and ineptitude -- and yet, why specifically cars and not other vehicles from the same makers?

Anyway, back to the actual question: In my experience, the script load of riders makes more difference to region crossings than the vehicle's scripts, but still: if selecting a vehicle for region crossings, it's marginally better to have fewer scripts scattered over fewer links. The fewer Meshes involved (including those worn by riders), the better -- even if they have no physical presence at all.

Yeah, I know: that doesn't make any sense. Why should Physics=None Mesh geometry ever even be known to a sim? I would like to think this is superstition, but it sure seems replicable.

One thing that I can't seem to replicate -- but creators spend ages tinkering with it -- is the effect of specific physics shapes on sim crossings. Physics shape does matter to handling, that's true, but I can't seem to get any consistency in how it affects recovery after sim hand-off, even though it seems as if it should. So... maybe it's a thing, but even if it is, it seems to be overwhelmed by a simple worn Mesh item that shouldn't matter at all.

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

 

The weirdest part about this is that some makers (including at least one named in this thread) offer different vehicles types with permissions specific to the market in which they compete. For example, quality boats are mostly Mod perm, trains practically all Mod perm, and airborne vehicles now in the process of migrating to Mod perm after a long, dark time when they, like cars, were mostly no-Mod. The point is, there's no possible excuse cars should be any different -- it's not as if there's any script complexity to finding those wheels if there's a CHANGED_LINK. I don't get it, and so far the only explanations I've heard amount to creator superstition and ineptitude -- and yet, why specifically

cars

and not other vehicles from the same makers?

 

---

Two related possibilities - most cars today have a number of separate scripted pieces designed to move and pivot in a specific relationship to each other (doors, hoods, etc.) and if you resize a car by stretching it these relationships can get borked to the point of its becoming a Frankencar.

The second half of this is a car is the first vehicle the average person just starting in Second Life might consider A Good Thing to Have. People interested in boats, trains, etc. usually have a certain amount of technical geekery to begin with, but cars are familiar to almost everyone, including those who have little skill or interest in fussy technical things. It's simpler to make a car no-mod than to deal with a lot of "IT'S BROKEN! WAU!" messages from customers who did something which turned out to be a Bad Idea.

I'm not saying this is good or bad, just defensible.

[Phil Deakins]

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Alwin Alcott wrote:

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

entity0x wrote:

Since Theresa and ChinRey mentioned names, and it is apparently okay to advertise stores, products and sims by name, as long as it's not yours,

 

---

Should people be suspicious of those recommending landlords as well?

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion/Nice-landlord-Estate-with-cheap-HS/m-p/3088554#M14350

 

---

don;t forget this one...

https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/How-To-Advertise-Your-Store-Or-Product-Using-Sock-Accounts/td-p/3088224

 

---

That post was nothing but sarcasm. I was posted because what he described actually happens a lot here - or at least it appears to happen a lot here - and he was highlighting/criticising it.

[Codex Alpha]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

It's an unending source of amazement that anyone ever buys no-Mod cars. Newbies, maybe, but after generations of obsolesence (most dramatically, the great Havok upgrade, many years ago, that made so many physical vehicles uncontrollable, but even just Materials properties turn older no-Mod vehicles into mere historical curiousities), it's completely irresponsible to sell no-Mod vehicles of any kind.

The weirdest part about this is that some makers (including at least one named in this thread) offer different vehicles types with permissions specific to the market in which they compete. For example, quality boats are mostly Mod perm, trains practically all Mod perm, and airborne vehicles now in the process of migrating to Mod perm after a long, dark time when they, like cars, were mostly no-Mod. The point is, there's no possible excuse cars should be any different -- it's not as if there's any script complexity to finding those wheels if there's a CHANGED_LINK. I don't get it, and so far the only explanations I've heard amount to creator superstition and ineptitude -- and yet, why specifically

cars

and not other vehicles from the same makers?

---

You should start a petition to LL to remove all vehicles that you find 'irresponsible', and not up to your permissions requirements. You should also petition LL to make every product made to have default copy/mod permissions, to save creators the trouble of clicking the buttons.

Secondly, my first vehicle ideas are based from probably older scripts, and outdated, and may not perform as well as newer scripts - because I have little experience with vehicle scripting, and the documentation is spotty or even non-existent. I have some ideas, but haven't released any yet, due to those limitations.

So I stick with hovercrafts and gliding objects for now, until I can find good documentation. If that's all they do, and based on older scripts than so be it. Maybe they can't cross sim lines yet... so what? I"m learning like anyone else, and will set the price based on its performance, and the market and reviews will handle the rest if there is any shortcomings.

You are also conflating two issues - Outdated vehicle scripts and permissions issues

These are two separate issues. Yes we should encourage updating of vehicles, and can do so by providing clear API documentation to do so. IT is 'irresponsible' to villainize an entire group of creators because they don't meet your personal standards, or have different ways of marketing than you - then posting for others to 'not buy' from them. That is anti-competitive by nature, especially when you're not having a discussion with said creators about it.

We also need to accept that there are probably thousands of outdated items still for sale, knowingly or unknowingly, but that's just how it is. A creator can handle this with their own marketing, instead of calling other creators 'irresponsible' or 'inept' or 'suspicious' without addressing each item case by case

Don't be another poster on these forums bordering on 'anti-competitive behaviour' by bashing others, while promoting one's own stuff as superior (That is still advertising)

Mod permissions are another thing, and are unneeded, by the MASS of Second Lifers out there, who wouldn't have a clue to even 'fix' their own vehicle anyway, so is UNREQUIRED.

If you don't want the yellow Lambo, don't buy it. Noone is entitled to permissions, nor is the creator of which to be labeled anything negative just because you disagree with their marketing practices. Just sell your own vehicles Copy/Mod/Transfer yourself if you wish.

Once again, a creator is not 'irresponsible' or conducting 'bad or anti-consumer practices' because they sell vehicles or other items no-mod. Stop labeling them as such AND SUPPORT YOUR OPINION

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

That post was nothing but sarcasm. I was posted because what he described actually happens a lot here - or at least it appears to happen a lot here - and he was highlighting/criticising it.

---

Thank you for noticing. Sarcasm can be a great tool, if it's actually recognized.

[Pamela Galli]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

This thread has been useful to me for identifying some makers of Mod-perm cars who had previously escaped my notice.

It's an unending source of amazement that anyone ever buys no-Mod cars. Newbies, maybe, but after generations of obsolesence (most dramatically, the great Havok upgrade, many years ago, that made so many physical vehicles uncontrollable, but even just Materials properties turn older no-Mod vehicles into mere historical curiousities),

it's completely irresponsible to sell no-Mod vehicles

of any kind.

The weirdest part about this is that some makers (including at least one named in this thread) offer different vehicles types with permissions specific to the market in which they compete. For example, quality boats are mostly Mod perm, trains practically all Mod perm, and airborne vehicles now in the process of migrating to Mod perm after a long, dark time when they, like cars, were mostly no-Mod. The point is, there's

no possible excuse

cars should be any different -- it's not as if there's any script complexity to finding those wheels if there's a CHANGED_LINK. I don't get it, and so far the only explanations I've heard amount to creator superstition and ineptitude -- and yet, why specifically

cars

and not other vehicles from the same makers?

Anyway, back to the actual question: In my experience, the script load of

riders

makes more difference to region crossings than the

vehicle's

scripts, but still: if selecting a vehicle for region crossings, it's marginally better to have fewer scripts scattered over fewer links. The fewer Meshes involved (including those worn by riders), the better -- even if they have no physical presence at all.

Yeah, I know: that doesn't make any sense. Why should Physics=None Mesh geometry ever even be known to a sim? I would like to think this is superstition, but it sure seems replicable.

One thing that I can't seem to replicate -- but creators spend ages tinkering with it -- is the effect of specific physics shapes on sim crossings. Physics shape does matter to handling, that's true, but I can't seem to get any consistency in how it affects recovery after sim hand-off, even though it seems as if it should. So... maybe it's a thing, but even if it is, it seems to be overwhelmed by a simple worn Mesh item that shouldn't matter at all.

 

---

Re bolded: what could possibly give someone the idea that any creator is responsible to make products a certain way other than as advertised? Or that he needs an excuse to do so. It is perfectly fine to say " This is what I prefer." But what you prefer is not what anyone is responsible to do or needs an excuse not to do. 

Are creators responsible to make things the price you prefer too? Go ask Sassy what her excuse is for putting her 26,000,000 pose all for sale. 

Reminds me of when students would complain that something was "not fair" when the issue had nothing to do with fairness -- what they meant was "I don't like it". And if you don't like it, don't buy it. 

[Qie Niangao]

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entity0x wrote:

SUPPORT YOUR OPINION

---

Okay, take it outside (across the street) where Penny Patton and the best creators in Second Life ask "Why No-Mod?" in a current thread.

It's a general issue, not just vehicles, but vehicles are the weirdest cases.

And irresponsible it is, because creators disappear for perfectly unpredictable reasons and leave their customers behind while technology evolves. For some reason it's okay that objects be stranded, but watch the comment carnage should a scripter ever die and brick a web service, as has happened plenty of times in SL. Why is that irresponsible, when selling no-longer-updated objects is just fine, if maybe that creator managed to push out an update once before pushing up daisies forever?

In fact, most such web services shouldn't be absolute dependencies if a significant up-front cost is involved. It's usually possible to provide those customers with a way to define their own cloud service as a fallback, if the main service dies when a creator departs. (Admittedly, that implementation may be impractical for hosted "social" services, where the network of users makes the service -- and especially where part of the service is assuming responsibility that can't be distributed peer-to-peer -- as with the old pre-Marketplace ecommerce sites.)

Contrast that Herculean level of effort with the ease with which an object creator can make a mere vehicle modifiable -- with no downside to their business whatsoever. 

The fact I can't do anything about it doesn't mean they're not being jerks.

---

Don't be another poster on these forums bordering on 'anti-competitive behaviour' by bashing others, while promoting one's own stuff as superior (That is still advertising)

---

I haven't sold any goods or services in SL for many years, and only give away scripts and widgets to friends or the public, usually just as samples to demonstrate new functionality they might incorporate in their own products. If that's "anti-competitive", tough.

[Qie Niangao]

Okay, for cheap disposable newbie-friendly stuff, it hardly matters. But still: why would a creator choose to make something no-Mod? I know you'd never do that with your products. You respect your customers too much for that.

There are a tiny handful of cases, usually involving some sort of role-play, where no-Mod serves an actual function in the product's operation. Otherwise it's creators who think too little of their customers, or just think too little, period.

[Pamela Galli]

"And irresponsible it is, because creators disappear for perfectly unpredictable reasons and leave their customers behind while technology evolves."

creators have zero responsibility to make anything, or make anything a certain way, as long as it is crystal clear what it is they are selling.

You know why?

Because no one is required to buy anything! It's a free market, if you don't like it, walk on by!

 

Oh and that thread? They think it a good idea to make a name and shame list of no mod creators, or any creators whose policies they don't approve of.

 

[Pamela Galli]

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

Okay, for cheap disposable newbie-friendly stuff, it hardly matters. But still: why would a creator choose to make something no-Mod? I know you'd

never

do that with your products. You respect your customers too much for that.

There are a tiny handful of cases, usually involving some sort of role-play, where no-Mod serves an actual function in the product's operation. Otherwise it's creators who think too little of their customers, or just think too little, period.

---

My personal preference as a creator is to encourage customers to customize to their hearts desire, and I am available to consult on how best to do that.

But I am not in any way obligated to do that, and yes I do have certain things I make no mod, and I feel no obligation to come up with an "excuse" why. I don't have to explain or justify any of my policies to anyone. Because it's a free market, plenty of other stuff to buy besides mine, no one is being deprived if my stuff does not suit.

 

To paraphrase: I may not agree with your product creation choices, but I will defend your right to make them.

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

"And irresponsible it is, because creators disappear for perfectly unpredictable reasons and leave their customers behind while technology evolves."

creators have zero responsibility to make anything, or make anything a certain way,

as long as it is crystal clear what it is they are selling.

You know why?

Because no one is required to buy anything! It's a free market, if you don't like it, walk on by!

 

Oh and that thread? They think it a good idea to make a name and shame list of no mod creators, or any creators whose policies they don't approve of.

 

---

Why would an accurate list of creators who are behaving acceptably (i.e. making no-mod products) be "shaming" them?

[Jules Catlyn]

I was following this thread and the other one about selling vehicles no-mod. I am a vehicle seller and i sell no mod for the most part. Back in the day when i started i did sell mod vehicles. This lead to a barrage of service calls from people changing/adding parts or messing with the scripts and then expecting me to fix all their issues because i sold them a mod item, They expected me to fix any issue they had after their modifying went wrong. Don't get me wrong i am still very much available for my clients but those calls wore me out. So i decided to turn to selling no mod accepting that i would loose sales over that. The scripts i use are of the pre-bought kind "bike" scripts as many call them but very much finetuned to serve their purpose in cars. They leave a lot of room for people to adjust the handling to their liking and i often assist with that to give people the optimal experience with their cars.

Hate me for selling no-mod but it made my SL a lot more fun again, so it was a very personal choice.

I excuse myself for typos because i was nervous writing this. I don't like being in the limelight much.

Have a great weekend all

[Pamela Galli]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

"And irresponsible it is, because creators disappear for perfectly unpredictable reasons and leave their customers behind while technology evolves."

creators have zero responsibility to make anything, or make anything a certain way,

as long as it is crystal clear what it is they are selling.

You know why?

Because no one is required to buy anything! It's a free market, if you don't like it, walk on by!

 

Oh and that thread? They think it a good idea to make a name and shame list of no mod creators, or any creators whose policies they don't approve of.

 

---

Why would an accurate list of creators who are behaving acceptably (i.e. making no-mod products) be "shaming" them?

---

Their term, I think there is no shame in making anything in any way that is clearly advertised.

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

---

Theresa Tennyson wrote:

---

Pamela Galli wrote:

"And irresponsible it is, because creators disappear for perfectly unpredictable reasons and leave their customers behind while technology evolves."

creators have zero responsibility to make anything, or make anything a certain way,

as long as it is crystal clear what it is they are selling.

You know why?

Because no one is required to buy anything! It's a free market, if you don't like it, walk on by!

 

Oh and that thread? They think it a good idea to make a name and shame list of no mod creators, or any creators whose policies they don't approve of.

 

---

Why would an accurate list of creators who are behaving acceptably (i.e. making no-mod products) be "shaming" them?

---

Their term, I think there is no shame in making anything in any way that is clearly advertised.

---

Wouldn't this suggest that it actually would be a good idea for consumers to make a list of creators whose policies may be controversial, enabling them to "walk on by"? Consumers are also participants in a free market and, as a clothier where I used to live used to say in advertisements, "an educated consumer is our best customer."

[Pamela Galli]

I don't like name and shame lists except when people are actually injuring others in some way, but if there are actually people who check or use lists as filters when shopping, then more power to them. 

My problem is when the lists are used primarily to shame creators who are making things the way they want, and clearly advertised as such, to give the impression that creators who do not make things as some peolple or most people or all people would like are somehow injuring others.  

If the point is simply to make a shopping guide, why not make a list of people who DO make things the way you want?  (Oh, but then what fun is there in that?)