GothGirl Demonia

I am sure remotely monitoring chat applies to Objects in world which remotely relay chat without consent of all parties, (Local Chat) this is what is not legal. " In advanced terms it is also possible to Bug out Vivox Voice to remotely monitor voice, and screw with Data Packets to hear chat without the use of objects which is illegal under the TOS assuming you are caught and reported. Remotely monitoring chat using a account that appears in the group, and has the rights to be in that group seems perfectly legal as long as the name appears in that group chat at the time people are saying. For example being AFK at dinner someone decides to come in talk trash in your group, and the moderator returns later and gets complaints from people about a particular person, you had your Second Life client set to Log all chat including group chats which isn't illegal and then you decide to warn, or kick X user from the group, this is perfectly legal, and nothing I see wrong with it. " In addition if you are a technical person I am sure you could setup a third party relay, or bot client even use a regular viewer with a simple plugin to relay chat to a web based server of your own, and people wouldn't even know about it unless you told them this isn't illegal in my view because 1. Its your group you permit it, and 2. Because you are part of the group, and your bot is in the group at the same exact time. This is assuming that other people besides those in the group are not viewing the chat otherwise that could be deemed illegal, but either way its impossible for LL to prove or prevent spreading of data outside their jurisdiction aka twitter, myspace, YouTube etc. The biggest thing you have to worry about is notice rights, sometimes you get Griefers spamming notices, and technically spamming notices, or random notices of spam is allowed in a group if you permit such as long as it doesn't contain anything illegal like, Threats, Chatlogs, Copybotted content, or used to crash a server ,or harassment or anything of the such. I have seen and been in some groups that have had CopyBot content sent out in them speaking of such, and it was there for over 30 days it was a big problem because this group had no owners, I was constantly reporting this to LL, and finally I guess the person sending it got banned. So if you are worried about moderation notices is the biggest thing you have to worry about, Chat is the Second Thing, and you should also not leave your group open enrollment. I believe you can also disable group chat at times when you are not online or suspect people will abuse through the group settings menu.

Marigold Devin wrote: Just for the duration of the event, is it possible for an Estate Manager to change the settings for the sandbox so that only people older than 30 days can attend? Also, rotate the people you can trust, to have one keeping an eye on the proceedings for 30 minutes each, so that the moment anyone does attempt to grief, that person can be frozen while their griefer object(s) is/are returned via the land details list, then the griefer can be ARd, ejected and banned. Some good organisation will minimise the need for Linden Lab intervention. Being a sandbox, I appreciate that it is usual for people with no payment information on file, and from Day 0 age are more than welcome, so after the event, just remember to change the settings back, and again, ensure Estate Managers are to hand to deal swiftly with any griefers. Yes this is actually an option I forgot about myself. The best effective method for this is to place an object right near a landing point in the region where everyone would teleport into, and have it set to scan within 100 meters, this way any avatar that enters the region who is under 30 days old for example is kicked from the region/teleported home, and temporay banned for like 1000 minutes or something. This could help solve the disposable griefer account problem to a certain point however a lot of griefers, and CopyBot users do use Sleeper accounts which are hundreds if not thousands of days old. The other option is to have a Bot constantly logged into the region, and using the client simwide radar detector and with estate rights to kick anyone under X number of days old from the region. You could also use a object which scans for avatars over 100 meters and kicks them however using multiple eject objects, or probes which spawn quite aways could cause lag. In addition it might be possible to use a single megaprim, but could cause issues. Another option is to pass out a hud which is no modify to all people who are in the region which would basically when worn detect other peoples age and work along with a scripted object tool deeded by a land owner which ejects people under avatar age, basically the hud would relay info via server to the object and kick people under 30 days old and anyone could wear it. This would solve the bot problem of having to constantly stay logged on but would only work for as long as poeple wear the hud/object. The no payment information, and other land settings also mite help as well but could limit avatars who are legit and just have not provided payment information, although payment information is easy to verify even on a griefer account but most griefers do not do this.

Ginette Pinazzo wrote: Attica's initial question is an intriguing one, and I am guessing was made with a sense of desperation, as many who have been involved with this specific matter probably share. She doesnt name the place and the people....but I will...... What some on this thread may not realize is that the land Attica refers to is, in fact, LL land. It's owned by LL, yet managed by a group of residents. (the residents who actually worked WITH LL to found the place initially) This arrangement actually worked fairly well (virtually no griefing) until LL made some changes and bascially created this new problem. How? They forced a rename of the region (against protests) from 'Zindra Help Vortex' to the griefer-attracting 'Vortex Adult Sandbox'. After the name change, griefing increased and never slowed down. The name-change alone could be blamed for most of these issues, and there NEVER was a substantial argument to do the change. The argument presented was completely ridiculous and demonstrated a lack of understanding regarding Search systems etc. Basically, the LL administration caused the griefer problem by making a really bad decision. If they were serious in any way abt curtailing the griefing, they'd switch the name back as a start. Secondly, the managing staff have never been given the basic powers they need to do the managing. Trust has not been shown. While at least one other example exists in SL of LL land being managed by residents who have powers, the Lab in this case has refused to make an analagous arrangement. I won't iterate consipracy theories here, but suffice to say its been a pattern of the new administration (since the real community staff was let go ages ago) to terminate community projects and to even target individual residents to undermine community efforts they've bene involved with. The Vortex is one of the last few LL-related community initiatives standing, and it needs real TLC to remain alive. It takes vision...and trust. And perhaps a truly community-oriented adminstration within the Lab. Well if it is a SandBox getting hit this would explain it right here. All the Sandbox's in Second Life get hit quite often by griefers even some private ones, and there isn't much you can do about it, and not much Linden Lab will do, they will ban the griefer over time if reported, however you can make as many accounts as you want and keep coming back that is the problem. See out of years of dealing with griefers, and CopyBot, and Trolls I know how they think, I also know how to grief and do the same BS as these griefers attacking all the Sandboxes in SL, so I know how to deal with them as well, and no it isn't me who griefs X person, if it were truly me as some griefers have used my name before I would not give any info that could be tracked back to me. So here are your options. 1. Set region auto return to like 3-5 minutes. 2. Set Land Group to build only. 3. Always have people on with Estate Rights. 4. Have someone online who knows how to debug basic viewer functions, clear cache, and can immediately log back in on crashing, or knows how to disable Graphics card crashers and such. 5. If a griefer comes in and fills the sim instantly, go to Estate settings Disable Physics/Scripts, and then go to Admin, God Tools, and delete all the griefers objects on the sim, Instantly problem solved. 6. If your sim actually crashes, CALL Linden Lab as an Estate Manager, or Owner, and tell them your region is offline it is a good way to get their griefer account Banned fast. However know that There is no such thing as a Real Ban on the internet, I get banned from SL, I laugh, change my IP, change my hardware info, Bam new account, I get banned from a Ventrilo server for that matter change my info go right back, I get banned from a forum I make a new account. On the internet without secure verification like Phone Verification, or RL Identity verification there is no such thing as a REAL Ban. This is still my first ever created SL account, so don't worry folks im not here to grief you . I have in my entire SL time seen Linden Lab Ban accounts for raiding a sim which I will not give the name of, the same griefer came back over and over again told the linden to ( 4 Letter Word) himself and other trash talk got banned, came right back and did it again over and over again like for hours so I know there isn't much you yourself can do. Of course this depends on exactly what the griefer is doing in the sim on how you are going to deal with the griefer and what actions to take. Sometimes some new resident is given an object in a sandbox and they rez it by accident not knowing any better so it really depends on the situation what type of actions I would take against the person.

If you are hosting an event do this. 1. Make sure you, or someone on the region has ESTATE rights to Eject/Ban. 2. Eject/Ban the annoying people aka gesture spammers, or griefers It is doubtful LL will do anything over someone spamming gestures that isn't owned by LL aka mainland. Playing gestures like Farts, or a sound isn't griefing generally unless they are spamming it, and like bumping into everyone with scripts. I would call it griefing, but under LL TOS its unlikely they will get banned right away even if they did get suspended LL would call it a residentual dispute. 3. If griefers come into the region Ban them, if they start griefing with MultiTools or scripts, Abuse Report them. Before your event. Turn off Rez, possibly scripts so griefers can't rez, this doesn't prevent Sim Crashing, Asset Crashing, or Wearing a graphics card crasher which LL will do something about if you abuse report such, however it doesn't stop griefers you get banned you just make a new account IP bans don't work hardware bans currently are useless, and if you are getting griefed by these type of griefers more than once then it is likely you crossed them, or someone linked to you has crossed someone and a typical REVENGE grief. Don't show griefers any attention at all, don't act like you care you can just mute them usually sometimes they go away, if you can't do any of these chances are the griefers will grief you. Also every event actually listed on the events page is likely to get GRIEFERS you are publically listing your event and sometimes griefers pick random events to Grief for the day its like a Lulz party for them, don't list your event or be ready to report griefers. Generally LL does do something, but the problem like I have said many times in many post griefers make account after account and don't care how many times LL bans them. Otherwise try to enjoy SL, Just eject/ban all griefers you don't like and go about the business, should the sim actually get filled with griefer objects then do this. Admin > GOD Tools, Objects, Set Target > Delete all of targets objects, and instantly all prims rez by this avatar will be perma deleted from the server, at least I think I got it right for viewer 1, I don't like viewer 2, but viewer 2 and Viewer 3 both have the same functions listed a bit differently, and even if they didn't you could just use packets.

Perrie Juran wrote: GothGirl Demonia wrote: Actually you can get suspsended/Banned from SL if you have stolen content it happend to me. I was given a bunch of stolen content we are talking about a total of 4000+ items which years ago I was keeping in a box, and reporting it to LL for removal constantly, I knew they were ripped, and as a result LL did suspend my account and when I asked them why they told me. When they restored the account they asked me to remove the items from my inventory. This was years ago, and a lot of the content was actually removed by DMCA which was the goal to get a lot of it removed or as much as possible. Now knowing more about griefing, and CopyBot it is impossible to stop all of it without the help of Linden Lab sadly. I would have been suspicious also of a "good Samaritan" who had collected 4,000 illegal and suspended your ass also until I had verified what was going on. It is not clear here but I am guessing you were reporting the Box, not the 4,000 items individually. If you made the box it would have had YOUR NAME on it as the Creator. So again, they did the right thing suspending your account till they confirmed the facts. ETA: In other words, if you were Abuse Reporting the Box, you were AR'ing yourself! Which is the reason I never use a prim with me as creator unless it is actually something I am building then I make sure it is Copy/NoMod. I usually use a prim with no creator name or something on anything I create like Hud based attacks, or anything that I don't want my name as creator on, or a prim from a deleted alternate account that can't be linked back to me. And actually it wasn't a suspension, it was a Perma Ban from the game, however this was due to a griefer from a big SL gang that does nothing but grief RP sims, and other people they dislike I could careless their griefing I only care when they cause actual problems for others, and even today they are still alive in SL griefing aka all that RP drama was started by a griefer from their little griefer gang. The actual Ban was because I had over 4000+ Items some of the same items were Copybotted 3 times from some creators I know of and had a few different names on some of them obviously spoofed. The reason for the ban was actually simple I had a griefer from a griefer network the same griefer I debated about those RolePlayers maybe a few weeks ago came from and they copybot hundreds of skins from well known devs I know and put them in a notecard and gave them out to a lot of people on purpose to draw Linden Lab to me, then they sent these items to my account like a lot of times using different alts, even some creators contacted me my Im's were filled full of like over 10 creators asking me about it all because of this griefer who thought it was funny to bot a bunch of peoples things, lie to me, backstab me, and grief friends. (( The botters account was like from 2007 too and they have a lot more accounts too and are good at playing mind tricks.)) This griefer thought they had won against me in fact they did get me banned, but I managed to find their little GothGirl gone away party aka banned from SL on their site, and appeal it and I came right back only to have them talk more trash on their little blogger about me ultimately failing... The Problem Copybotting, and sharing Stolen content is so easy as pirating any video game on the internet, even those games that they claim on realse are Anti Pirate I laugh because its so simple to pirate almost any game listed on steam, all it takes is a search on the internet, and some braincells. What I am trying to say is that people share hundreds of .XML files on torrents for SL therefore, Copybotting a Specific item could be imported by 100+ people, and no way to DMCA report them all because each one has a different creator and UUID. Given the fact that most botters are spoofing/hiding their information it would be like impossible to track to anyones actual main account. Why do you think the griefer called *Night**re Deen** is so popular in the sandbox the thing where he spams green text and says he has hundreds of accounts one in every sim etc. The Solution The problem that I see is The griefing, and Alternate account abuse is so easy to do and LL needs to do something to prevent the constant registration of griefer accounts like ID Verifcation, and or Telephone Verification and require Real Life registeration information when the user signs up. This would slow down the griefers, and on top of this maybe improved protection or a way to prevent hardware spoofing might not be possible when the client is open sourced on this one however. It may not be possible to stop the CopyBot 100% but it would be possible to make it a lot harder for Bots and Griefers to register accounts to Second Life constantly to grief, aka less stolen content going around. With the large number of people I know who identify stolen content, and content illegally uploaded from other games now that mesh is out, it is possible to have botters gone from this game faster than they can blink an eye if LL could provide better protection their numbers would go down not up when they get banned. * Also give us ways to do something about people just generally in violation of the Community Standards in SL aka Sim owners disclosing logs and abusing others with those actual false rumors in Second Life because I have reported lots of this griefing with logs they still are in SL today causing grief including those botters from 3 years ago. Some people are agaisnt this some people are not, but I believe it is a step that has to be taken to prevent griefing, and I believe that LL needs to also filter out those who are knowingly supporting the griefing as well such as the sim owners of those few places who knowingly break the TOS in many ways its not funny but LL Does nothing.

Actually you can get suspsended/Banned from SL if you have stolen content it happend to me. I was given a bunch of stolen content we are talking about a total of 4000+ items which years ago I was keeping in a box, and reporting it to LL for removal constantly, I knew they were ripped, and as a result LL did suspend my account and when I asked them why they told me. When they restored the account they asked me to remove the items from my inventory. This was years ago, and a lot of the content was actually removed by DMCA which was the goal to get a lot of it removed or as much as possible. Now knowing more about griefing, and CopyBot it is impossible to stop all of it without the help of Linden Lab sadly. 1. To answer the question however LL usually doesn't suspend, or ban an account over a few stolen items in your inventory by accident. However if you are accepting a large cache of stolen content like Skins, or Clothing look for tags infront of the skin, usually this is a signature on the item of the creator who made it. In addition to this usually big boxes filled full of high quality skins full permissions are CopyBot. 2. Generally if you have accepted such items you know are Botted you can just erase them and stop using them, and LL will not do anything, however if you are one of the users I have seen who hangs around and says I dont give a (BEEP) if its botted or not when they are clearly wearing stolen hairs that we all recognize, then do not be shocked if you do not get Mass Abuse reported for wearing stolen content, which can trigger and investigation into seeing if you passed it out to friends and so on, and possibly lead to suspensions/bans on both accounts. If you actually have no idea it is ripped and wearing it, then hopefully if someone spots it they will give you a warning to remove it, I know some stores in SL ban on sight for wearing stolen items which in my opinion can be a bit harsh if it is indeed someone who is new and doesn't know and there are a few ways I actually check that stuff to try and tell. The best way to avoid stolen content is to go to creator's stores in SL any buy their goods directly from them. There are sometimes when botters will setup a fake store in SL, but the most common is using a Stall inside of a Mall to setup illegally cloned items, or The Market Place, because its cheap easy to avoid, and cash out before getting banned. Keep in mind that wearing stolen items gives you a bad name in SL if you knowingly do it, even if you don't know it does, but its worse if you don't care and someone tells you. It also gives your Group a bad name, and gets you banned from a lot of places, so avoid it as much as possible.

I have had the issue with "Spam Notices" from stores. Generally I wouldn't call them spam because it only sends them once per week or very rarely at all so I don't mind much, but it does give me the option to subscribe. Some Stores in Second Life use a Notice System, which logs the "Key"/UUID of the Avatar, and sends out notices, or IM's to everyone woh has even step foot on their land with product updates and such. ** Generally a store could have it send these out every hour, or daily or repeatedly spam a person every second if they wanted to I suppose. I agree that Linden Lab, should add a policy against automated systems doing this, as well as a Policy against RP sims placing Rules in their covenant which are in clear violation of the Terms OF Service/ Community Standards with things like they allow private IM Disclosure and all of that. However, do keep in mind that you should first verify that it is actually the store owner, or an owner of the store doing it, and the way you find out, is when the object sends you a text based "Green Message" you click on the object name, it it will tell you the "Location" of the object, and the "Owner" of the object, this will allow you to determine if it is actually the owner of the store or a griefer because sometimes griefers like to Troll creators, grief clubs and such, and spamming all the visitors of the club, store, or hangout is a good way to get people to leave and never go back if done properly that is. " If it is actually the owner of the store you should contact them and ask them to remove your name from the list, and if they don't answer, and still spam or send unwanted notices, File an abuse report to Linden Lab with the snapshot of that little box showing who it is and where its coming from." If it is a notecard, check your transaction history, and LL can also check that as well when you report it. If I remember correctly there is also a system that sends out notices to people who have made purchases from a store. Lets just say that if a person actually wanted to subscribe to your store they would click on the sign, or join an update group, there really isn't a need to spam customers or have such a system that logs "Keys"/UUID and sends out spam notices to thousands of residents, and if you are doing things right, and are a well known store then you won't have problems with customers. See I know of some of the high profile developers of SL, and sometimes their sims have 30+ actual customers there for hours including Freebies, and new people standing around waiting for items from a raffle, etc, and these people don't use spam systems and they make a killing selling stuff, and we are talking about like hundreds of products or more from a few I know of.

CCP Games you mean EVE Online right because I play that game :3... At least CCP games actually dealt with that goon swarm person I think it was only a 30 day suspension for what he did at the CCP event I think it was... CCP actually dealts with people who do wrong things like the CSM I think they call it... In second life anyone who owns a simulator and griefs others with alts or breaks the EULA/TOS nothing gets done. I know LL doesn't get involved in residentual disputes however when they are in clear violation of the TOS/CS they should deal with issues that come up. I see many sims that say they have the right to disclose LOGS, and private IM's and breach privacy rights between residents, and lets not forget about Red Zone and all the similar systems to it. I am not currently even sure who is running LL but I would say it could use some better management, and who knows maybe they are working on something. I mean SL is still the best Service around for Virtual Worlds, but like the grief becomes way too much. 

LOL well most actual griefers who I know of have thousands of IP addresses, and a lot of VPN's/Proxies to avoid being banned anyways. Changing your MAC address, and hardware information is also easy to give false info when connecting to avoid hardware ban. All Griefers I know of do this. There are some stupid griefers out there who actually do get banned if they get IP banned, but otherwise for the most it wont do anything. I have put up with griefer community groups for years sometimes one griefer gets into a community and griefs others even CopyBot others actively and daily there uploads them to a website for download basically the owners and admins of these places some of them are even so called high profiled creators who know people but do nothing about the people doing these illegal activities even when it has been proven they are griefing. Sometimes and it is rare, but I find a griefer on my own land because they have connections back to a group who previously had a CopyBotter in it, and I raged because that is how angry I get when I see this. One thing that makes me really angry is all the people who sucker up to others, and pretend to be little angels we don't know what a Bot is and they have a 1000+ day old account, or simply tell you they don't care... Seriously can a person be that dumb. Basically I have been told by some creator who makes content at one point they were going to file a DMCA because of another griefer who ripped off his store and make sure that I was busted in Real Life for theft of his work. Its been over 3 months, nothing happend. I was called a Terrorist In real Life by some I have no full clue to why, they said they were going to call the police because they think I griefed them, and guess what, that was over a year ago now total but nothing happend. The bottom line to griefing is that the Police don't care unless a Real Life threat has been made and can be proven via Linden Lab server logs, or actual account hacking/fraud nothing is going to be done, and even if by a very slight chance a griefer was actually caught in Real Life they could and would likely easily get off with no more than a court order by Linden Lab saying they could not use Second Life anymore thats about all that could happen. Griefing like it or not, and I don't agree with this of course, however Griefing is part of Second Life, or the game, if people can do it they will do it. Griefing is just part of SL I mean if I can rez 1000+ Cubes in a region and make them all physical duplicate them to 15k prims I can do it. Most MMO's that had such things would actually limit, or restrict griefing and such like patch exploits, cheats, or hacks to the game, but SL is that unique experience that allows griefing. I however agree that LL could do better to prevent griefing like giving residents the option to only allow people on their land or estate which have provided Real Life identity to Linden Lab, this would be in addition to age verification or something. If you haven't verified your ID you can't get in that simple, it would prevent a lot of griefing because if someone were to grief they would have to provide a new ID and be verified by Linden Lab for that matter. And the other thing is to require RL Information when signing up and confirmation of an actual email, possibly even Telephone Verification like google has. I have trolled some users on google before because they griefed me first, so I decided to go do some random trolling only like a day, well with this said I had to verify a phone number so it was a bit harder for me to get around not impossible, but it would restrict the griefer from making 100 Alternate accounts a day and getting all of these banned, yes there are ways around that, and I know of them, but for the most part it would stop most for now. The only thing I ask is why LL hasn't done this, and will they. Here is the funny thing however. I have more than one modem sitting here, and my IP address does change daily if I so choose to, I know that my primary isp changes IP's like every 6 months anyways. MAC Addresses I change easily, I have a program that changes these when I load up a software program. For those who do not know what a proxy or VPN is. http://www.proxifier.com/ http://www.freeproxies.org/ www.hidemyass.com http://computer.howstuffworks.com/vpn.htm https://www.wtfast.com/ http://www.freewebproxy.net/ http://anonymouse.org/ Proxies, and VPN's are actually great tools when used for certain things. For instance I find that in gaming if I connect to a server in a certain area and use it as a man in the middle to relay the traffic, or data from a game server to my computer I actually get improved ping times so there are legit uses for VPN's, or proxies, but they are also abused. Keep in mind that any actual illegal use of these services, Real Life threats, or anything like this the police, and or FBI can actually still find you unless you are at a hotel, or free wi-fi even then they pull traffic cams etc and could still find you. My point being these services log your actual IP themselves, and TimeStamp which is how they determine who is doing what too and can prove it was you in a court if they had to. There might be more to it but pretty much the basics I know of off hand.  

The same things I have complained to Linden Lab about for over a year because of being griefed by griefers and their Alternate accounts, not only myself but others as well. As people have pointed out here, You do not have to give Linden Lab any Information about who you are, You do not even have to give them a valid Email Address, or anything, in fact you can use anyones email address you want when you sign up and get others into trouble too I have had others try this on me before. I have pointed out these issues to LL, even pointed out 4 griefers causing havoc on people I know in SL, and guess what Nothing was done about it, and lets not forget all the people with disclaimers, and people running around with IP loggers, Red Zone, CDS, ETC. While IP logging isn't such a bad thing the problem is that the people who use it are complete dummys selling false information or products, and causing grief/harassment to other residents in the process because of something they can't prove all around. Yet today Linden Lab still has done nothing about any of these issues, I have asked things like Put ID Verification back into SL so that only people who have shown ID can get access to adult area's and such asked this over a year ago, and yet it still hasn't came back. I am not going to even bother explaining all the ways there are to do money laundry, grief residents, and much other stuff than to say other posters here are right IP address doesn't really matter I could get myself banned 10 Thousand times a day if I really had that much time in my life to waste in SL and come back with another IP address, and computer information every single time if I so pleased. " In fact to put it this way stealing money in Second Life is easy when you got all these share vendors, even some malicious objects that as debit permissions, should a large number of people accept them a griefer could cash out with hundreds of dollars worth of L$, nothing LL or you could do." I do not encourage griefing, or giving false information to LL, but the problem is every griefer knows about these, and Hardware/IP bans stop dummy griefers, but then those griefers go to YouTube/Google and search things like ( Second Life Banned) and they find out a way to get unbanned and how to do it that simple.

Muting a griefer isn't as simple as you say, I have been there and done that, and beleive me I wish it actually worked. There are many forums of griefing including some Popular people who own RP sims in Second Life, and without naming these communties because its against the TOS to do such, they are griefers themselves. When drama starts they have these Little Admin Groups Which they use to publically spread Rumors, or False information in about other residents over Drama accusing them of griefing. Ive been there seen and dealt with these type of people. The sad fact however is from my experience with such people they are the griefers because even if a person is griefing spreading or giving out information in a group or in SL like this aka defaming is a SL Community Standards Violation, and I have reported the owners, and admins for doing it to LL before, but LL did nothing because these people over over 12+ Estates in Second Life, aka Money Talks, that is my opinion and view on it. Sometimes Muting a griefer works, but then you got people like me with serious Motto's aka we do not forgive we do not forget. When someone crosses my path I never forget period, that issue will remain open until the person resolves the dispute, and if it is something that I did myself I do take responsibility but if it isn't I won't. Using the Mute button generally works on Objects that spam residents for example, and also works on griefers who have no Skill, but the type of griefers I deal with are the griefers who get IP Banned, and hardware banned and come back in 30 seconds to laugh at LL. These are the people with serious business. Sometimes it will work, other times it will not. OverAll, Back in the day I believed that All Griefing was bad, and I still do for the most part such as people who attack Sandboxes, disturb the peace in Second Life, or attack without a reason aka the griefer doing it for the laughs. Now I understand more and why some griefers do what they do, and I really could care less when griefers grief other griefers I will sit back and laugh because karma is a real pain isn't it? If a community, or person in Second Life is going to support griefers, Don't think that others are not going to grief you back for those actions aka I have seen people cry before because they got griefed after supporting a Copybot who attack a developer I know of for years, and some others I don't know very much. The sad thing however is that the owner of this place is a member of the CCA, and has these type of griefer community/people playing in their little MMORPG, and they are all griefers clearly breaking the TOS with their little admin groups which they defame people in for the laughs. In my view Second Life is a big disgrace to even have such people in the Community calling themselves a MMORPG when they really are not. See in the real MMO community we frown upon things like Aimbot's, Cheaters, Exploiters, and Hackers, and we will call you out for it outside of the jurisdiction fo the game's EULA/TOS. For those who have actually played in any RP for the years I have, or even those who have actually done nothing but visit a sim, and get accused of being an alternate account, defamed, harassment by owners, or other people then you might know exactly what I am talking about, and there are many Small Based community sims in Second Life that have people which do this. Personally I don't care anymore, but I will see the Karma, and Revenge one day, I will be there to dance on these peoples RP Graves for what they ahve done until the dispute is resolved and that is how and who I am you see. So what does Second Life Need? LL needs to get moving and start enforcing the damn TOS/CS when a person is reported for breaking it even if they are spending $1000 a month on Estate I don't care. I watched for 30 days as a Creator I know of was CopyBot by some of these RP Griefers, and their items were sent out in a group with no owners, I filed an abuse Report to Linden Lab, the Creator somewhat accused me and said he filed a DMCA, Personally I felt like raging him because he talked to others from this group about me but I didn't go off on him like I felt like. I was and still am pissed because of this crap but then again this creator in the past used the CDS system, and obviously doesn't know much because if he did he would know that the system didn't work. Anyways after some background checking I found that the person this griefer Ripped off was the same person who had builds by this same group in their RP sim, point being it all links back to this person. My point for saying this is I abuse reported it all, for over 30 days the notice stayed in the group Linden Lab did not remove the notices spammed by this griefer giving away stolen content from my knowledge across multiple groups, It is currently unclear if they have removed it now because I haven't been logged into SL lately. LL just needs to act faster on griefers, and put in some new functions to prevent griefing, and use of multiple accounts, and they could start slowing down griefers by requirements of RL Information just like all other MMORPG's require, and things like Email Verification, Telephone Verification possibly, it wouldn't stop people like me because I know ways around all these, but it would stop most common griefers for awhile while more things are put into SL to prevent such. In addition to this they need to simply prevent abuse from residents spreading crap in Second Life about others for example, X user accusing X user of being a griefer in a RP group which is very common it needs to stop, and be a banable offense, and in the most a warning/suspension at first to make them understand it is not tolerated in SL because that is a form of griefing, and something a lot of people I have seen have to put up with. In general if you search for Admin groups from certain RP community groups you will see where it says this group is to report griefing, or griefers, which is strictly against the TOS to spread such rumors about other residents without consent, but nothing gets done an abuse report, and the notice stays there for like beyond 15/30 days when the notice should be removed, and abusive notices should even lead to removal of the group from Second Life when things happen like this. In addition LL should give owners, and rights to remove/moderate notices so they can be removed. Second Life, is currently the only MMORPG I know of with the worst griefing in in other than things like Mine Craft, or SandBox titles, but the worst, and something needs to be done about it. 2. LL has indeed in my view lost control over SL and they should start by giving people the old feel of viewer 1 back, because Viewer 2, and 3 just suck. The complaints against people are investigated, but it depends on how big or known the people are for that matter. If for example it is a matter of a griefer spamming a sandbox it could take hours before Linden Lab bans the griefer for that matter 4 hours crashing sims and lagging down like 12 sandbox regions before anything gets done. However if the user griefs a really popular Estate company, or RP sim, or people with LL friends it seems that they responds a lot faster. 3. Welcome Areas, Are always full of Trolls, and griefing, I have my friends and enemies who hang out at welcome areas and it does turn into Trolls Trolling Trolls, and Griefers Griefing Griefers I have seen this. It can actually be a bit hard for LL to moderate voice chat, and that is why when people do illegal things in Second Life they say get on Skype, or Talk on voice so that LL can't prove it, or for that matter just cursing out people at a welcome area its hard to prove. 4. PG Welcome areas I am generally against people walking around naked because for that matter Kids, or Under the age of 18 are now in welcome areas, and can be exposed to this content. Generally anyone 13+ should likely know the anatomy however it becomes more less a form of griefing when people pull out the huds that do the adult things there, or grief, and generally just going around naked and talk trash that should be dealt with. For example a person could walk in naked because they are loading it happens and that can be expected, but to generally just grief is another thing. 5. IP addresses there are thousands of them there is no blocking them all which is why I have multiple Routers, and modems, Plus a call to some of my friends who work at the ISP I get a new modem, new Network card, or new IP any time I need really so doesn't matter besides for that matter I have over 10 Thousand IP addresses I can use across any game or service aka man in the middle it does have its legit uses to use a proxy. I mean if someone actually makes a Real Life threat, or does anything against the Law, and with a valid court order/claim it is possible to find out who the user is most likely if they are at home routing through proxies, however otherwise its Anonymous. Call me a crazy kitty if you wish, but at least I am not the one remaking the moving RAMPAGE in RL like some people have actually lost it and done recently.

I agree LL Needs to do something about the public areas to prevent griefing, I understand that this can be a bit hard but like seriously I have seen the griefing that happens in sims like Korea, Orientation Island, Help Island, SandBox, Etc. I have quit SL again for awhile because I am currently bored. Every time I login it seems I have to deal with this one griefer or two griefers now because Linden Lab would not do anything about this griefer for quite awhile maybe there wasnt enough evidence I have no clue but either way they are a pain. The only solution honestly, and this did not come from my mouth, but the only solution sometimes is to grief griefers back, and make them beg, sadly when this happens it drags a lot of other people at times into the conflict simply for being there, but sometimes there has to be a war before there is peace. And believe me I Laugh when grieferers get griefed by griefers I think they absolutely have it coming. Sometimes there are reasons people or spectic sims get griefed in Second Life for a reason, not that I can actually support such because its a TOS violation no matter what, but just in general sometimes there is a reason for it, and I will just sit back and watch. This is why I believe LL should respond faster before one little incident becomes a bigger one which causes more harm to others just standing around. The most common and most lame excuse I hear for griefers hitting a SandBox is because they want revenge against Linden Lab. Player Moderation can't really do anything because we don't have the tools to actually do such, however if LL could give us the tools which could not be abused to deal with griefers like this, or if they could respond to Abuse Report faster it would be nice.

Linden Lab does ban griefers the problem however in my opinion is that they move too slow. I have publically called out 4 CopyBot GRIEFERS on every MMO Site I can think of and they are still in Second Life today, I really dont care about TOS Breaking because offically it isn't if I don't post their names on these forums or in SL. The reason I don't care is because well the Theft is worse. Ban by IP address good luck a lot of griefers have hundreds and thousands of these along with those MAC/Hard Disk serial changers to avoid Hardware ban, it can be argued that sometimes it doesn't work but most part it does. The problem with most griefers is the Second Life community however, I find that a lot of people accept griefers into the community with open arms, or just dont care about it. Someone wearing stolen hairs they know it and don't care, or people allowing such users to be in their RP sims, or on their land. I know a community that allows griefers to do this, and I know of a few other small sims that have had this type of stuff going on there, but LL didn't crack down on it. I am talking about well over ($500) in copied virtual products, not including all the copies given away to others. I know that LL bans accounts that are found to be griefing, but the problem is there are hundreds and thousands of griefer accounts being used daily to grief they check all of these, and unless the same users griefs the same simulator like 100x and over 100+ abuse reports are filed it usually takes a long time. Sim Crashing, That is another thing for example if I was given an object and rez it in a sandbox and it crashed the sim or did something stupid chances are I might get suspended, however given the age of my account, and or if LL checked the claim that someone gave me the object I rez nothing would likely be done unless I on purposely rez the object across multiple sims or something. Sometimes a new person or something accidently rez an object in world from another griefer and it does something I know I have a couple of times and it didn't crash but it spammed particles everywhere although I erased it from inventory and deleted in world.

Ry0ta Exonar wrote: I do wish it was just theorising. "On receiving a valid counter-notification, we generally restore the content in question, unless we receive notice from the notification provider that a legal action has been filed seeking a court order to restrain the alleged infringer from engaging in the infringing activity." https://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php If you google sl curio, you'll see what I'm talking about. Yes I know exactly what you are talking about, this exact same thing happend to one of my friends who creates content, and they didn't have the money to SUE even though they filed a DMCA, the other person Counter Filed, so the only way it gets removed then is if it goes to court through a court order, and even then it could end up in a heated legal battle. Speaking of Curio, I have seen his store ripped off many times in SL, even talked to him once I think don't remember exactly. I am still a kitty with a pancake on its head wondering what is going on not exactly sure who has won what yet with the legal mess, but my guess is someone setup a store selling skins that were edited in photoshop, or a mistake who knows. But so help me if a botter really did get taken to court, and they are actualy guilty then hopefully justice will get served. The only time i ever had to file a Counter-DMCA was on YouTube once someone decided to file a claim on something I had posted claiming copyright and it got countered I just removed it after I counter filed for Drama's sake however it would have probabily had to have gone to court too. * To me however that was more like a Shut Up notice from the user in SL who didn't want the cat out of the bag, but you know the cats out now :3.*

Here is a few things I have seen and know about. 1. If someone is displaying the same picture as your profile picture then chances are they are UUID snatching, this is the act of opening another persons profile picture ID which is loaded into every viewer the same as any texture and into every users cache when they view your profile, very easy to apply the pciture of anyones to your account. 2. There is no way to stop CopyBot, or Immature Viewers, Systems like CDS, Red Zone, are both lies they can't really protect you, and on top of this they violate privacy, and breach the LL TOS under harssment/defaming avatars. There might be other systems out there now too I don't know them all. See if chatlog disclosure here was not illegal, I would disclose the logs I had with the creator of red zone where he admit to manually banning my avatar from hundreds of sims running the system because a botter attacked others using my name, and because I know too much about the Bots and griefers I am guilty obviously, he knew nothing, but I am glad his system is gone for this grief he caused. 3. Never Give away anything full perms, as it can be spoofed to create content to look like you made it. Generally speaking even without a illegal viewer it is not illegal for me to example take a full perm prim you gave me full permissions over and create another 3 cubes with it twitst them around a bit its not breaking the TOS to do it, what is of course is what these illegal botters do with them make griefer attacks etc. 4. I have been accused of being a person who Copys people stuff over 3 years, banned from a couple of stores, and no offense to the creator community because I know quite a few merchants and I respect, and support them. But reguardless there is a time when standing up to griefers who illegally harm other creators to me it seems why do I even bother reporting, or giving a damn. I ask myself this sometimes, because at the same time some creators have chosen to kick me out of their store and accuse me of griefing so to speak, the most recent a creator I knew since 2009, with this Griefing person from this RP sim which I believe Stole his items then tried to blame me for it. Even if this person were not guilty of this and they were actually spoofed, they have griefed me in so many other ways its hard to believe they are not a griefing Bot. So its things like this that make me wonder if its worth trying to protect content anymore. OF Course I know a lot of people, and I will not stand to see people wearing or giving stolen crap out in any group I am part of or such, its happend before a few times total, I left some groups others I got kicked from fro being against this stuff, and trying to do something about it, and well sometimes there is nothing that can be done except by LL if there are no owners in the group. The problem however is people see my name often from things like Blogging, Debates, Google, Being Banned from CDS, Red Zone, or Rumors, and they believe that I would want to harm them, and if that was the case, I know more than enough to tell when I teleport into a sim I am banned, and if I actually truly wanted to harm a creator myself on this grid, I would not leave a trace back to me, let alone would the ban stop me I would just use an alt like all these griefers do, my point being, I am not in SL to grief others, but I will defend the rumors made by these griefers, and deal with the people helping them with things such as Abuse Reports, Debates, and have plenty of other tricks when I become a raging kitty which only happens when someone makes me really angry. * My point being, I don't make much content on this grid, but I have seen what these griefers do not only in Second Life, but other games I play, so I know how it feels to be griefed. I am not for the griefing of random people the reason I say it this way, is because sometimes one person slaps another persons face, and that person slaps back, aka this kitty for example someone slaps me and they don't stop I turn into a raging kitty they get my paw across their face.* I don't like having to slap people with my kitty claws but its a kitty's nature lol. 5. Banning CopyBotters./ Marketplace blacklist. I really don't care if the Real Botters who wish to do you harm get banned, but using systems like CDS, or Red Zone, are just going to draw more attention to you as a merchant. Even if you blacklist a person from buying your products on the market palce they would get the notice, and the solution is simple. Make an alternate account, buy the product, and copy it illegally. In fact you can do this in world too if you got detected or banned from CDS, or Red Zone for that matter, or anything similar, just turn off media, make an alt, go buy the product and rip it. These systems will not protect unless the user has Media, JavaScript, Cookies, or Voice on or anything like this, if a user disables them all and no exploits are being used, it would have to assume that anyone who has these methods off is a Botter and kick/ban them. In fact a botter could just find a friend with the same product, or hang around a welcome area to copy your work still. 6. DMCA. DMCA is your best friend, and I would use it, of course it wont help you if the botter has your .XML file saved on their comptuer they can create thousands of more accounts and import it back no matter hardware banned or not from Second Life, however those who have no knowledge and thnik its funny to play the teenage punk ripping off your store it will work against, and not only that, but you can file a DMCA on every new import they make and make it hell for them if you wish, I am all for it. 7. What is important however to every creator is if a nwe permissions exploit is ever found, it should be reported directly to Linden Lab & Fast because these can harm the designers of this grid worse than a CopyBot can. 8. While most creators of content, or developers see the CopyBot, or Immature Viewer as being nothing but illegal, they have their use, not saying a person has to agree or disagree with me, but some of these rogue viewers, or should I say privately made viewers have good functions better than the ones released legally. I think of the CopyBot now as nothing more than a TOOL, just like Knives which are used to cut foods in a kitchen can be used in malicious ways to harm another person in Real Life doesn't make it illegal to own a knife for that matter. My point being as long as Second Life is open sourced there will aways be viewers which are not on the approved list, or that can likely steal content from other creators. Some people argue that CopyBot is not Stealing, in a matter of speaking thinking about SOPA/PIPA it isn't stealing, its just making a copy of it. This happens both in Second Life, and Real World, Software, Movies & Games. However I understand how hard this hurts the community of Second Life to have their work copied, or in other words stolen as many call it including myself. I absolutely hate how people can just go and rip off entire stores and leave it in the sand box for that matter of something I saw no more than a month ago. If the person really couldn't afford something, why the hell could they not just ask for it. I know some stores in Second Life not sure about now, but before offered free RP weapons to people if they were new and couldn't buy them, I know creators who give away free skins, and free hair to newbies. There really isn't a need to steal or copy and destroy someone elses life. Creators waste hours of their Real Life they could be using to play another game, or do Extra work for cash in RL, but instead they enjoy creating content in SL, and people rip the off, even use sleeper ALTS to copy an entire store and fool new people setting it up and stealing money cashing it out before LL Bans them, etc. Funny thing I have to say is that if you can't afford $4.08 for 1000 L$ then you really shouldn't be playing Second Life for that matter. The only except I see is if you are a Teen or from another country, or have a really bad Real Life and can't afford to spend much in SL like some of my friends. Then I can understand not being able to deposit a lot of RL money. But there are other ways to ask nicely for things if you really need help, I am sure that some creator out there is willing to give you a hand, rather than illegally using a CopyBot, and stealing/leaking content. I used to once be one of these newbs who accepted Stolen Freebies when I first joined SL I knew nothing about any of it but I found out about it all later, deleted it all, I don't want to be seen wearing stoeln content, or anything, I don't want people I know even wearing it around me, it makes me look bad and that is really how I am about it.

I agree it would be nice if a person could have way more than 42 groups, I remember when the limit was like 25 groups, and even that was a pain. See problem is by the time you join a few groups like a lot of people do breedable pets, so you join those, join a few friends in a RP Community, and have a total of 2 RP Community groups you end up using sometimes 3-6 groups just for the Land group, then your faction, or family group, and then even sometimes you meet friends from these places that want you to join their group so it can go up to 8 groups or something. Then lets say you decided to join a SL Military group thats like another 2-3 groups right there, and then you join some news, and help groups, and make a few custom groups for tags, and well before you know it all the groups are used. I have got over a Dozen Invites to groups from product purchases for example as well as have other groups from friends who want me to join, but my groups list is full pretty much and I need more room. With all the different types of things in Second Life to do the groups is too few. Also I don't use Alt's to RP, I know a lot of people create Alt's and stuff but that is just what starts drama and brings drama.

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: In June of 2006 LL changed the registration for new sign-ups in a way that it was no longer a requirement to provide any sort of identification and they stopped the one time charge for creating a basic account (speciifically, that day was June 6, 2006......I remember it well). What thatt did was open the grid to a lot of people who were hesitant about joining due the the $9.95 fee...........that was when SL "got on the map", so to speak. I know I did some research back in October, when I joined. I wanted to know who Linden Lab was and if I could trust them with real life identification and my credit card number......I've been a pretty paranoid person about personal ID and financial information for a very, very long time (way before SL). I could not find any information saying anything bad about LL so I took the chance and joined. First as a basic but after about a month I went premium. Of course, I provided honest and truthful information because I knew that LL could track me if they wanted and I was "covering my ass".....if LL turned out to be some rip off then I had the "evidence" right there on my computer and on my ISP's logs (basically, I'm paranoid to some extent......but I'm savvy enough that I know where to curb that paranoia). I was genuinely amazed at the some of the griefers and their boldness about doing things that could get them in trouble......not only with LL but with RL authorities. It's at that point that I "learned" that a thief or a crook doesn't care about authorities in the least........they will lie, steal, and ignore laws in order to do what they want to do. But, that's the hardcore types..........they exist and they will always exist (everywhere.......not just SL). When LL opened the "flood gates" in 2006, not only did we have to deal with those hardcore griefers, you had to deal with the more timid griefers.........but they are not so timid now. They know LL does not know who they are and LL doesn't want to know who they are. And the griefer population in SL exploded. It was a problem when I joined.......it's a huge problem today. And, for that, I point my finger squarely at LL. I agree with this post, I am not sure exactly when LL Changed the Credit Card, or Debit Card required because I didn't play SL back then, but I do remember years ago when I was under the age to even be in SL when they required it I remember seeing Second Life on an AD, I didn't even have a credit card I still don't back then they didn't have prepaid cards as popular as today like GreenDot, etc. I use debit now with my bank and lots of other prepaid sources however. The problem, is grieferes, money laundry, and Laws can be broken depending where you live, however the LL servers from what I know are located in the U.S, I am not so much into knowing other countries Laws. Anyways, problem with Second Life, is I agree that it is easier to join SL without giving out personal information, even your name not required to make an account anymore. However there is a cost to that, and that cost is that it will be abused by Griefers sadly, and I absolutely hate what I have to deal with myself with other griefers, but what I see happen to others with griefing, and it becomes down to the point where people fight it out and take matters into their own hands, I don't support or encourage griefing, but sometimes griefers get griefed and thats how war works in SL at times from some of what I see. Most MMORPG, companies, such as Blizzard, NcSoft, Riot Games, Steam, etc. All these companies actually require Real Life Name, Telephone, and basic information like where you live, Second Life doesn't require this anymore at all, all they get is an IP address, Computer MAC/HD serial which are easy to spoof on them all, and a email which anyone can get a dispoable email account. With this said, I know that griefers can grief other games too, and believe me as a Gamer I have had to put up with griefers in other MMORPG's too outside of Second Life, so I know what it is like these days. The problem is that Linden Lab really needs to go back to Require some type of information, and verification, possibly even Telephone verfication like google, I know ways around telephone verification myself for example, but not all griefers are very smart, or know much so not every griefer is going to know how to do it. Requirement of ID Would not be required, however Land Owners, would have the right to restrict access to people who have not given ID to Linden Lab, its their land its their choice right? Just as they can ban anyone for no reason, why not add this feature. * This would prevent a lot of griefer and Alternate account abuse.* Go to google and search for. VPS Servers, or VPN's, on top of that look up proxies, these are all the avalable ways to spoof your IP address, griefers know it they use it, even on forums like Second Life, and other MMORPG forums as well it can be abused too because forums ban by IP address, and in the most can detect browser version, so I like to throw in TOR which also hides my information even better for example, griefers know this I know it. Actual Abuse 1. In abuse situations like a for example a plot of Real Life terrorism, or Life threatening threats made towards a person in a MMORPG, if the FBI takes it seriously enough believe me no matter how many proxies you hide behind they can and will find you if it is serious enough, unless you are at a public WI-FI, even then they will log time stamps track back those cats, until they find you the Zippo Cat, and if they cant find you they will pull Traffic Camera's and security footage of the area. 2. Copyright Infringement, is the Second Biggest thing I deal with, I know exactly what Bots do like the CopyBot for one, Data is shared between the users computer eventhough they don't own the data its still cached on their PC. But not only that a person with the way the SL asset system works can spoof pretty much anything in Second Life, now lets assume that I was a griefer who ripped off someones store in SL. Well lets say I hide behind an alternate account, and did this using someone elses name to spoof assets on Skins for that matter or anything else. The creator can file a DMCA and I might get banned from Second Life for giving out all those items I did not have permission to do such with, but if they try to bring foruth a Lawsuit at least in the United States, lets assume the creator had the money to even do such, they would have to find me, and then from there they would have to prove that I actually did it, and in a Court, or LAW its innocent until proven guilty, given the fact that the data is all loaded into clients using UUID's, and I didn't actually download anything there would be no proof I have violated copyright, therefore LL could ban the account, but in a Court or Law I could easily Take the 5th, and not say anything, or I could prove in a court how many exploits the permission system really has, and even probabily get the exploits posted on television interviews, wouldn't put LL in a good light you see. 3. Griefers we all hate them. I know about every griefer trick they have, The only thing I can't do is code scripts I can edit them, I can recoginize exploits, and hacks, or cheats, or bugs in a lot of games released today. But most important, I know how a griefers mind works, how they play their games, and the different types of griefing. With this said Technically I could be called a griefer myself, but that said its the experience I have learned over the years of Internet Gaming, we are talking about over 10 years, someone with no Real Life really and over 12 hours a day to learn things. 4. Money Laundering The reason LL shut down gambling, because of the Law for that matter, however I am still sure gambling goes on in many ways in virtual games not limited to Second Life these days. I have no problem with gambling much, but there are Laws, and I also know that any type of gambling mostly in SL can be rigged, hacked, cheated, exploited, but even RL machines are vulnurable to hacks I am sure. I am generally the type of person who looks at exploits in anything I see SL & RL, and learn how these work. This is not limited to gambling however, Scripts that if a person grants debit permissions can empty your entire SL account, which by the way usually Linden Lab wont do anything because you granted it permission, but imagine, if you were using a very popular Second Life Share vendor that splits profit, or vendors selling your products. You have to grant these debit permissions, but you can't view the script yourself so you don't know someone doesn't have a remot command to still millions of L$ from everyone using the system grid wide now do you? Not saying that this will ever happen, but the exploit is there, and can be abused. Lets not even talk about Real Life Taxes which people in SL get out of paying because they cash out the money I believe there is a Tax limit before it is reported but using friends, or multiple accounts to cash out, or Third Party Trading, and cashing out to their PayPals, Sometimes I think about calling the IRS and telling them about the potential vulnurabilities like this. This is the reason why companies need to be a bit more strict as throw away griefer accounts and who is behind them. Believe me I understand even with such there will always be a griefer, but the numbers would likely go down compared to what they are right now. The current way the registration works a person can create an account, get banned, come back 30 seconds later and grief again, Sometimes Linden Lab attempts to track items back to where they came from, sometimes LL Blacklists the griefer items, but even then that is why I for example buy everything I want to use FULL Permissions, and backup copies to my own Hard Disk drive so even if the script gets lost I have another copy of it no problem, and on top of that it can't be tracked back because it has a new creator each time. Anyways as I was saying, griefing, and Trolls happen daily on more services that Second Life, they happen in other MMORPG's, but I find there to be for one a lot less drama, and Second the game companies which I happen to know actually take a lot of action way faster than Linden Lab does, plus they still require that RL information when you sign up. So I understand how dificult griefing can be for people, and in no way over the years since I became to really understand it I never support this type of conduct in games. Often these griefers target me as well, but since they can't get me they use other people who don't spend their hours researching to do stupid things like spread accusations about me, or get me banned from sims and all that just to try to get me because really they have griefed me before on my own land, they failed just got banned from SL over and over they really couldn't use their little toy huds on me either, and believe me I monitor every packet coming and going from my PC, every little box or packet in SL, so even if someone uses a griefer attack that is supposed to be stealthed, chances are I will find who you are, and it will be gone pretty fast. With this said I hope that people will understand how serious Requirement of RL Information can be at times, well maybe not to require Payment Information, but to give residents the option to better protect themselves by requirement of ID, and such. It would really help if LL would require at least basic information such as Name, Address, etc. If people really don't like this then they don't have to use SL as a service. I know I have already given LL my RL information, & Debit Card, but I have insurance incase of my account getting compromised with the CC company that will cancel the transaction, and I use a seperate account for SL aka I only deposit so much funds I don't keep a lot there anyways which I believe is a smart way to go just incase you never know. If you really want to be paranoid then check this out, I believe this guy it makes sense what an evil world we live in and what some are doing, so many coverup's. http://www.jesseventura.net/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LDgUGztmP0 I know that I will not be eating any fish after this, not that I eat them anyways, but for the people who do this is very bad. ( It is sad that some people want to remove his video's with false copyright, but once word is out its out.

Ceka Cianci wrote: so many walls of text ..i can't stand it anymore hehehe.. it's time to call in the big guns.. oh Chuckie poo!! need a favor sweet'ums.. Pretty sweet all the ChuckNorris jokes in games lol reminds me of World OF Warcraft. Being a Mutant like that would be awesome in RL :3. And Yup lots of walls of text :3 thats called Drama Jerry Jerry :3.

Carcus Core wrote: Griefing is not rping period. Find me a rp definition that says griefing is a part of rp Griefiers are low life scum who seek to ruin the enjoyment and environment of the RP community, and if i could meet some greifiers in rl Id give them some rl grief And...gothgirl I know the sim your talking of and the GM your talking about, maybe your pissed cos they playing you at your own game but playing it better than you despite all your efforts For the record ..private IMs are shared between admins and Gm's if a call is made against another player who is breaking the rules or going OOC abusively in your IM, admins need that as proof and its the ONLY time any private chat is shared, its for keeping the rules inforced and players in check, without it admins can do nothing and the sim would run into a big mess as no rules can be inforced with no proof of them being broken. I would suggest you accept the outcome of the crap you got yourself into and move on, your fighting a losing battle by griefing, which by the way you seem to know alot about Peace  Well to make note of a couple of things. 1. Sharing IM's reguardless of rules is a violation of the SL TOS/CS even if it is in the covenant, or listed on a website or blog. When this happend I was never aware of the Rules being there I can be blammed for not knowing them either they changed, or I had just been too many other places and forgot about them. In a sense of speaking Sharing logs of Role-Play, or harassment between Admins I would see okay, but not sharing private information, or anything unrelated to harassment, or RP. See this is what happend I trusted someone who I didn't know much they were part of my group and turned out in my eyes to be a griefer looking for Drama. If they really are not such a person then I would like them to show me their true colors without their im the big boss attitude and being a stuck up player. See my talk with this person I believed to be private, I believed this person to be a respectful person because they were part of my group, I was wrong, and I wish to god that day I would have never IM them if I had not have none of this would have happend. * I also don't see why people have to bring their personal drama that doesn't involve a person into a community to ruin a persons life for example they own a club, have an arguement, or something totally unrelated, or even a talk one person is drunk and says something stupid to the other not meaning any harm but it gets taken the wrong way which is pretty much what happend to spark all this.* Something we could have just shake hands over and been over with the enxt day, but they decided to take it IC, make threats of bans, and you name it.* I still do not understand why the admin chooses to accuse me, and the other player who started all this is still there to my knowledge. 2. Fighting a loosing battle, I wouldn't say it is much of a loss. I really don't care about the frigging ban that the admin placed on me because I didn't play there anyways, I just knew of friends that did and ask me to see them once in awhile and some of them paid to be there, but now I am denied access because of one little griefer who wanted it their way. Am I griefing these RolePlayers? Absolutely not, I have been accused many times of using Alts to grief them by this one person, and her Admin who is the Manager, but know this, I never griefed the sims if I had of done such LL would have banned my account way long ago, and people would have seen me do something. I have nothing against that community I am against the admin who still refuses to speak to me, the people who have pointed fingers at me and thrown around these rumors like I am responsible for everything. I have my faults in it yes, I disclosed logs outside SL which is not offically a TOS violation after they thought it was funny to start their lies about me, and accuse me of such. In fact despiste the lies I tried to help this community to find out who was doing this, and I have a pretty good idea of exactly who it was and where it most likely connects back to, but see The admin refused to hear anything I had to say, it was just like this. The Gavel hits, and I am immediately guilty of everything eventhough I admit to my part in this a few times, and tried to get them to let me know exactly what was going on before it got very ugly. * In fact the only thing this admin/GM did was tell me to prove my innocence, like how exactly am I suppoed to do that he said.* " He demanded names from me" I didn't know names of who was doing what because I wasn't behind it, I knew of a couple because they used a spammer from their sim on me and filled my email as well as some sandbox sims thats all, but these griefers are long banned from SL.* If this manager wanted to ban me for No reason at all they had the right to do such, they did not have the right to break the TOS by spreading rumors and lies around SL like they did. They could have simply had told me, even this person who started this whole thing could have got together and asked me to leave the group nicely I would have done it, but they decide they wanted drama. 3. Like I said I really don't care, about the ban as I said, but I want my name clear of these lies, I don't want to be punished and accused of something I did not do. I just want this Admin to see their mistakes it is that simple, They have no proof of if I griefed them, and they have no proof I didn't so how can they go around spreading these rumors about me when they can't back them up. I was more than willing to peacefully sit down with this admin tell them about anything they needed to know, and help them with the griefer who was attacking, but instead I got rumors, and personally I watched him lie to my face it was not funny either. The thing is this, I do not play alts in their community either, this is my only character that has actually played in their community. I have been against this griefing for a long time in SL, I have seen many people harmed by it including friends I know from that community, I would not harm them, and most important I would not take out my revenge on an entire community or a group of over 1000+ people if I did such it would not look good on me. Personally while I can't give names here, I am sure you likely know who I am talking about, but I feel that public exposure of their lies, drama, and such is punishment enough. If these admin's or GM's, and even if this person wants to talk to me or respond to me peacefully and stop immediately accusing me of the harm which I never did I would be more than happy to keep things quiet, but the moment they start ranting about me doing things I have not done then I have problems with it. I am not here to RP Griefing as some might think of griefing as RP. Just FYI the way I see it Role - Play can be assuming the role of anything even if it doesn't ivolve Text based combat. For example joining a Military, or army in SL is taking a role of something which you might not really be, even being a biker in SL from SL. 4. And if you think I am pissed off over a Ban, I have been banend from some other sims in SL most likely because of these rumors, but I have not griefed them, and I have not heard anything about me griefing them either, I did ask nicely why I was banned, and if they could contact me, thats about all, I have no reason to make a big issue unless they start to spread lies, then I will abuse report it and deal with exposing those lies. Btw just FYI. If you don't know why I am debating this issue so much it is because I continued to get griefed even after the ban, and eject from the group by people from there spreading those rumors/lies. I believe in fighting peacefully for right is right, and if you go to the website, and look under the Adminstration code of conduct you will see a part which says. Punishments are the result of evidence. & No one is above the rules. You will also see, always go into a situation with an open mind. This admin unless these do not apply to him clearly did not follow any of the rules, I tried my best to respect this admin, but I had it after the second and third times of rumors started by them. In fact as a player I believe what I did exposing it outside LL's jurisdiction was right to protect the real MMORPG gamers, and I believe I have done my best as a player even more than what a normal player would to try to get to the bottom of it. As an admin I believe he did not do what he should have, Maybe I am wrong its a matter of opinion, but I would just like for them to see the mistakes they have made, and shake hands with the issue, there is no need for the grief, and drama let alone the accusations from them. I want to see this person be a Good and respectful GM, and I have no Idea how or why he choose to pick me as being a bad person over one little incident, and because of who I am. As the rule says on their site too, no one is perfect, I have tried to see that, and I do see it, but when constant grief continues against me with those rumors, it makes the kitty angry. In simple terms of speaking, There is no need for WAR, but sometimes there must be WAR, before there can be peace, and I find that really sad but it seems to be in human nature. There is also no game I am playing, they are the ones who played the game/pressed my buttons. I only played it back as a player, not with griefing or anything like that. Kitten says Peace too :3.

geopbyte wrote: After several years of being a resident in Second Life, I have found one thing to remain constant throughout all the years. No it is not the viewer. The changes there are constant and unappealing. It is not the grid or the activities therein. It is the inaction of the team of Linden Employees who deal with abuse on the Second Life servers. Many of you who read this are land owners, estate managers, or at least at some point throughout your Second Life you have been forced to deal with a griefer. The frustration of having to deal with these children who think it makes them look cooler or whatever their motivations are, to crash sims, fill up parcels with boxes and sounds, can be very annoying. What is worst than dealing with a griefer though? Dealing with the people who are responsible for stopping and preventing these kids from doing what they are doing to begin with. Try this out for yourself. The next time you are being griefed or your sim is crashed. Contact any one of the many Linden employees that are online. The response will be the same. "Please file an abuse report.". OK so file your abuse report and see what happens. Usually within minutes you will receive an email thanking you for your abuse report. Though sometimes it may take upto 24 hours before you get this email. Now what happens? Well you get griefed a whole lot more. Your sim keeps crashing. The griefer is free to do whatever they like for as long as they like. Linden Lab takes their time and may look at your report within a few days. They may not look at it at all. But what happens if you kick it into high gear? Lets say you send a report every time the griefer comes to your sim to crash it. lets say 20-30 times a day? Or what if you report the griefer for every prim they have griefed you with? Which could be in the hundreds? The abuse team quickly jumps to action and informs you that if you continue to file abuse reports you will be banned for harrasment of a Linden.?!?!?!?!?!?!? So after 6 years of being in this virtual world, I have noticed that nothing about the way griefers are handled has changed. The people who are victims are treated like the aggressors and the people who grief are ignored by the staff of this great world. I am sorry Linden Lab, but I strongly feel it is time to rethink the way you act(or dont act) to abuse reports. It is time for a change that allows the paying residents of this world to feel some sort of security. And i think it is time that people who grief are banned. You have the ability to completely block computers from accessing Second Life. I say use it. Griefers Guide Book? Actually you are sorta wrong here on some things geo, let me explain everything I know about griefing so far. 1. There are many types of griefers some people use Sim Crashers, Objects to crash sims, laggers, Graphics Card Crashers. Then you have the griefer which I sometimes call the player, or the Mind Fracker, basically they use their friends, and other people around them act like an angel get their trust to use them to get revenge on innocent people or people who haven't really done anything, (This is the type of griefer I have the most type of issues with, I wont discuss it here, but these griefers you usually find in Role Play sims.) Then a third one I can think of is the LULZ griefer, basically a LULZ griefer is someone who griefs people for the laughs nothing more they just do it because they can like a Black Hat Hacker, they will find things people post online, Gather Information which is why I say stay as anonymous as possible, troll peoples social sites, etc. 2. I agree on some of the things you said. 1. Linden Lab has declined since 2008, I remember back in 09 when I called Linden Lab and reported an issue even a griefer sometimes I got Linden Lab's help with the issue if it was something important this was before I learned how to deal with a lot of things on my own mostly GRIEFERS on my own Estate. But anyways now if I call them 99% of the time you are right its File an abuse report, unless the region is very messed up then they might come down and check it out if I tell them I cant do anything about it etc, or sometimes I was told to file a ticket and let them know. 3. Linden Lab banning griefers? 1. In 2008, I was a N00b to the grid, I remember my first suspension from SL was childish because I was on the Teen Grid I put a lot of follower yellow subs in the sandbox got me a 3 day kick, but I also got hardware banned at certain points I used to be one of those people who would use a lot of tools, and huds to attack people and play with that type of stuff in sandboxes a lot. Back then I knew nothing about SL, or any alternate viewers, or ways to change my IP address ,or unban myself from Second Life. 2. It is possible for LL to ban a users IP/MAC Address, however it is also easy to get around these days, To be exact I have myself at my disposal a list of over 30 thousand IP Addresses, a little program that spoofs my MAC, and Hard DIsk serials for any game including Second Life, therefore I can always change my info on the fly for example if I choose to make an account and actually harm someone I could without worrying about the ban or concequences for my actions. (Do I abuse it no.) I just know because its things I have learned over the years after becomming a tech in computers, and learning some software and such. ** Sure I get accused of being this griefer, or that griefer all the time by Ignorant people because they don't know me and just knowing about such makes me guilty you see.** The only other thing you have to remember is to clean out your SL Cache folders, or rename them each time otherwise LL can lock on to your accounts and find out who all your accounts are reguardless of spoofed info. 3. I am not the only one who knows this however almost every griefer out there Laughs about bans because they come right back with a new account in under 60 secodns and do it again get banned even I have seen griefers assault linden lab employees on Lulz raids on private Estates a linden actually sat there logging off peoples accounts one after another couldn't get the person lol. 3. However if you grief a region lets say of someone who owns more than 10 sims watch out! I have quite a few griefers recorded on video including some griefers who have griefed some big sim clusters before and in like 5 minutes after a griefer attacked and crashed like over 80+ people I would say Linden Lab's banned them, did they get the person obviously not because they came back and talked to someone I also happen to have logs of quite a few griefer incidents posted online getting laughs at some ignorant people and LL does actually respond pretty fast at times, however as I said the person who did the griefing didn't get perma banned, and the party/event was ruined. 4.How you can deal with griefers. 1. Determine the type of attacks being used against you. 2. If you own the Full Estate, or have Estate Manager Rights, and you know the name of the griefer. Admin, Good Tools, Target, Set Target, Delete all of objects on region, Kick/Ban from estate, repeat as necessary, however note that if you accidently make a mistake the items are gone for good unless LL does a rollback. For Graphics Card Crashers, you can always just derender them, or ctrl alt shift 1, 2, 9 depending on the way the crasher is working. IF you like to hang around a sandbox buy this. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Stop-Right-There-Crasher-Scum-Anti-Crasher-HUD/3561107 Spammers, use viewer anti spam, Text spam open up a chat box make it small. 5. There are things Linden Lab can do to prevent griefing, I have urged LL many times to do such, but people keep debating me on the issue, and I swear had LL have done such, it would have saved me so much griefing over the last year or two. 1. Go back to age verification with ID, * Yes there are ways around for false payment information, and ID, but I could not for instance create 100 accounts and verify them all with false ID very fast like I could now if I wanted to register 100 bot accounts using proxifier I could and I could just put any birthdate a disposable email, and bam 100 age verified accounts can go to age verified sims and grief residents right? ** I know people complain about it, but it prevented kids under 18 from accessing adult content, and it also kept griefers from making so many accounts to grief when people set their regions to adult only.** OFF TOPIC a bit... 6. But some people deserve to get griefed? Yes thats right each to their own on this one, but let me tell you what I do. Sometimes and it is rare I actually see it, but sometimes people grief others for an actual reason, betrayal, backstabbing, or serious hurt personally if I see that and know its for an actual cause or someone getting revenge, let me tell you what I do. As long as they are not harming a bunch of innocent people or targeting them, I turn my back and pretend I didn't see it as long as I know there is a damn good reason for revenge. Then I get up off my chair, I actually have a small fridge full of cokes in my room, and and a popcorn bowl, so I get my popcorn, I hit camtasia and start filming, I just sit back and enjoy the show as if I never saw it and get the laughs... ** See people might think of me as being bad for this, but you know its their problem and if they have pissed me off, or are a griefer themselves getting their behind kicked by other griefers then they had it coming.** (( I do not ever enoucrage griefing or ask others to do it because its against the TOS, if they want to risk a ban so be it.)) 6. For those who are super trolls/griefers, hardware freaks, or beta testing, there is even something better than griefing and that is having a Gun, and Ammo ready at all times and being prepared. 1. Lets say I have to actually put that clip in my gun and get ready to fire, I can do it on a moments notice any given minute, any given time. As I said, and as my profile says I am not a dummy, I work computers, I pretty much have a computer lab here. I have a 30-50mbit connection with an IP that changes if unplugged for 24 hours, and I also happen to have two over modems as well with different ISP's great tools too if you want to go undercover, or some griefer actually gets my IP and DDOS me for example should that happen I will let them DDOS my pc, call my ISP and tell them someones ddosing me please help meanwhile I switch one of my computers to my other modem bam new IP address, connect behind a VPS server, or VPN service, and Bam more stealthed IP address, and let me tell you... I have more than that. I also have two Operating systems installed on two seperate drives on this PC at all times, usually 3 drives backup, if at any time someone actually gets my behind click a switch on my computer restart click another switch and bam computers back online virus free... And lets get more pro than that, Disposable Telephone numbers, youk now for when you have to make a lot of GOOGLE accounts to troll someone you just hate so much telephone verifcation lol its just fail when you get someone who knows their stuff :3. Now people are gonna yell at me... Goth you are mean, Goth you are a bad person, absolutely not. I am a gamer, I sometimes have to deal with Troll clans, or griefers doing stuff for the laughs. See this isn't the old days when you didn't have that many griefers compared to today now you got bigshot kiddies running loose not just in SL but other games similar to SL sandbox tiles mostly, however in most games if I ask a GM to do something they usually do it for me if its a damn good reason like dealing with a troll because I Beta test so many games you wouldn't have no idea of course there is a NDA agreement with those, and I am not talking about preorder games from gamestop become a Beta tester thing either ^^. Funny thing about it all is I get threats, I am going to call the Police, I am getting a Lawyer, well guess what... The police really don't care much unless its a threat of terrorism they really don't have the time to deal with senseless trolling. In fact the biggest thing unless its a Real Life threat or stalker taking this to real life, they dont' care, and to be hoenst the worst thing that can get you into trouble in SL is copybotting, but even then a good lawyer could get you off in certain cases if you know the legal system and stuff like I do and don't screw up with your griefing generally for the most part creators can't do crap to you but get your account banned from SL although Rules of the internet say. (There are no real rules about moderation Enjoy Your Ban.) There is really no such thing as a real ban sure you can get someone banned they loose some stuff, but the real griefers who are here to do the harm don't care you see. ** Oh yes and good luck getting a court order for disclosure of inforamtion because you got butthurt by a griefer online as long as they have not made RL Threats of any kind, not much you can do.* Even if you managed to follow all the cats, then the griefer someone who happens to know their rights could fire dem lazarz back because now in a court they would know your identity too you see.** *** See even the police make mistakes when they Raid The wrong house lol...*** http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48018051/ns/technology_and_science-security/ <<< Now that is fail, so see here is what you have to ask yourself about BlackHats... As long as there is Free WI-FI, you can cover your tracks, and as long as you remain Anonymous you are safe... However for the owners of the WI-FI they might have some serious talking to do if someone illegally uses it. Its similar to this http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Download-lawsuit-dismissed-RIAA-drops-claim-2586307.php Grandmother gets sued cuz some kid uses Kazaar on her WI-FI, but wait... Who gave these torrent programs to all the kiddies who actually gave them away? someone had to give them to the kids to use, and most teens dont give 2 cents about copyright they dont even care. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJV0xhVKINQ I know this is long but it will explain a lot about the griefers, and personally, I don't tolerate any type of griefing, or CopyBot for that matter. I have hated it for years of how people can grief lots of innocent people, so I ask those who think LL needs to give something like ** Age verification with ID required to become verified back** OR require Credit Card to sign up it wouldn't stop griefing but it would sure slow it down a lot compared to now. I sugguest you keep complaining to LL about it maybe they will. And yup offically I am the Insane/Crazy kitten, but there are others like me lol.

To answer some questions. 1. I do not stick around the people who are doing this, keep in mind this drama occur over a year ago, I was banend from the region, and kicked from the group, the group is not open enrollent. The situation is this user is a Griefer, they come from one of those griefer sites, and they use Alternate Accounts to grief their own RP sims to begin with and their friends and accused me of it the GM in this MMORPG believed her. Simply put even after that was way in the past this griefer has been attacking others I know with NoteCards from Alternate accounts, and even CopyBot some creators and spam sandboxes handing it out & some groups, then accused me of doing it, and this isn't even talking about the rumors they have been spreading around the last rumor was just this month and its been going around a bit because of this griefer, and the GM who believes it. In a matter of speaking I have sent IM's to some of these griefers in the Sandbox doing this, and they come out and say they were just RolePlaying Griefing becuase they know everyone likes it. Talk to some of my friends who are not griefers they say they RP with the griefers back on their own private sims when they get griefed with huds and such to teach them. ** This is a bit all new to me.** 2. I did Abuse Report for all of this over the past year, the user including the one who has ripped off quite a few people and threatend to do it more based on information I was able to find outside SL is still playing SL today I don't understand why they could do so much grief and still be here, and that is simply the problem I am having. Otherwise besides the grief this person keeps throwing at me I am pretty much having fun when I login to SL well sometimes with other RP groups, not a Major RP sim or anything like that but still good. To be honest I have been avoiding major RP sims because of this griefer, I am afraid they will follow me over to other sims and cause problems if they haven't already. Most Drama that I have seen which involves RP has always been something that was Over and done with really fast, sometimes things went well, other times things didn't go so well someone got temp banned, or something like maybe a debate or arguement, but it was never anything where a griefer went on a huge power spree first geting a person kicked off of a entire group of sims, suckering up to GM's of the MMORPG, and then trying to get the user banned from hundreds of more sims or banned from SL that is how some of these griefers like to play they don't just stop there. I have muted the griefers before, but see they just make more accounts, and come back, or they use others as Pwn's in theire game of chess.

Looks pretty good which one thing I have in question about this and that is this. Project Sunshine (Server-side Baked Texture Generation & Storage) Does this mean that finally people will not be able to use illegal or CopyBot content anymore? For example is it possible or will it be possible to throw in some protection to prevent cloning of content? I also assume that this new texture serverside server could have some serious issues like what if a massive number of people rapidly changed stuff from their inventory, or what if someone loaded up a bunch of assets really fast would it be possible to in sense crash the server or would it go down and leave everyone looking like newbs?

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: I give up............I have a niece who is 6 years old and I can talk to her in a somewhat intelligent manner and she comprehends most of what I'm saying. But, you? I'm not sure it's sinking in. Like I said in my previous post.......have fun with this game you insist on playing. Yep I think I get what you are saying something like this. 1. AR the person. 2. Move on find something else to do in SL. 3. I think you are trying to tell me the only winning move is not to play, well that is easier said than done at least for me. Sadly its not as easy for some as it is for others some people choose to fight Totoh & Claw until their name is clear ^^. But still Griefing is consider RolePlay for some dear Mother Kitty save me. Well I am off gonna go play Skyirm I guess so I can Fus Ro Dah some zombies. 

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: No. What I'm saying is: Gothgirl: Bobby Griefer pulled my pigtail. Bobby Griefer: Well Gothgirl stuck her tongue out at me first. It's that silly.........really it is. Yep sure is silly and if it were that type of RP I would totally be laughing and having some fun with them good times I really don't understand why people like to RP Griefing in SL it makes no sense it just really isn't ever fun but hey it takes 2 to tango rite, and 2 can always play that same game?

I really don't need LL to fight a war for me or anything, it is actually listed right there in the TOS/CS which says that people are not supposed to spread rumors on the grid, or grief other residents, but yet they do this too much have been reported and nothing done. Some say it just takes time meanwhile I have to put up with their drama simply said, but most importantly they are dragging other innocent people into the drama. For example it is just easier for me if LL upholds the rules, see I really don't care either way it is just a lot simple if LL deals with it, however if they want for it to get messy then I am sure there are a lot of internet Trolls out there who will read a /r/ on a MMORPG board and they will go have some fun with these griefers. See I am a peaceful kitty, I believe SL is about Peace, and enjoying and I really hate to see things like SandBox griefers, spamming and griefing innocent residents, however I can do the following. I can either AR the situtation and try to clean up the griefs, or B. I can wait 60 seconds while the griefer crashes the sims and the neighboring sims and then report it 30 minutes later just turn my back pretend I didn't see it get what I am saying. Offically I can't do anything illegal in SL break the TOS/CS, however I am sure there are plenty of griefers who take /r/'s. Anyways like I was saying I believe in Karma, and I really don't care if this griefer or their friends what happens to them in SL or out of SL their problem and I pray to the Unholy kitten for such bad upon them. (RP speaking of course.) However I am sure that The Internet is full of Cats, and Hats, and that Justice will be served to them griefers where LL helps or not will only be easier because if LL Doesn't help I can say that it is likely this griefer will do a lot more grief to others, and well its like someone spamming hand grenades in the game counterstrike with a room full of hostages people get hurt in the crossfire and I don't like that too much. Unoffically when I am given the power knowledge, and position I do whatever the F I please, I just choose not to be an Evil BlackHat griefer who targets innocent people or griefs sims or anything like that, but dealing with other griefers it takes 2 to tango lol. Point is I am saying it is best if LL helps deal with griefers rather than Residents taking matters into their own hands to deal with griefers and duking it out it can get very messy.