Luna Bliss
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Everything posted by Luna Bliss
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I learn a lot on the forum, about all sorts of things. I've made some good friends and acquaintances from here too. Met the lovely Dutchman for the first time last week..
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Pet Peeve: I am at this very moment spending too much money on clothes in 2nd life, hoping perusing and posting on the forum a bit will slow me down... *I was at a dance-music event and simply commented that I loved the outfit an acquaintance was wearing, she gave me a landmark voluntarily, and now THIS!- 23,168 replies
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I'm very aware of differences - in fact, that is a big reason I took exception to the article you quoted. Once you start saying, "This is how wo/men act," even if you acknowledge that there are differences within those sets there's a danger of implying those who don't behave according to the description are "doing it wrong." Would lists like and concepts like those, properly used, help Ingmar understand why Ermagard might be behaving in a way that seems odd to him? Very possible. The problem is when you start saying, "This is how Ermagard acts, and it's because she's a woman" - especially if you don't know Ermagard that well. Agreed...this can be one way stereotypes are born....by those ignorant of science and how it operates.
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It's a scientific fact - well, considering statistics to be science. But what does it have to do with how fast any individual acquires language? We need to know how groups of people are similar or different, and how individuals are different or similar too. This is a major tenant of science....these comparisons. There is likely another study that might guess at why an individual, say a boy in this case, was able to acquire language so fast in early development compared to the slowness displayed by most other males. A discovery could be made, one that would likely affect many other findings and theories currently in place.
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Yes we should evaluate the consequences of being so open in 2nd life given the way the US is heading. Not far from me is what is known as a 'gay church' though some straight people do attend. Unfortunately, they keep getting the church windows bashed in due to needing to be so out front in the community (they have a major food bank for food-insecure people that needs to be advertised). It's easy enough for govt authorities to access 2nd life information.
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Thanks, it helps me to know you a little better...to understand your frame of reference. One might think my love of Yoga and "ohhhhhmmmm we are one" perspectvie and all of that would be my guiding principle. Actually, it is, but....I see a lot of problems stemming from people not understanding our differences...a deficit in developing sympathy and compassion..and so people all too often label each others differences as 'wrong'. This is why I like discussions about differences, and I'm hoping they lead to a better understanding of how we are all so very different, and that this is perfectly acceptable.
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This is why I laughed. I went over the article myself and was wondering why in the world anyone would use a link to a paper about flies. It was obvious from the images and videos in the article. That's when it hit me, it was funny because it looks like the poster was comparing humans to flies which in no way backed up their claim(s). Ahhh...neither of you understand the part our wonderful fruit fly has played in the understanding of genes for all species: "The fruit fly Drosophila melanogaster has provided insight into the role of genes in behavior, some of which have relevant implications for humans. Mutants induced or engineered in the laboratory have contributed to our understanding of biological rhythms, learning, memory, neurodegenerative disease and drug response. Studies of naturally occurring genetic variation in behavior have advanced our understanding of what kinds of variants arise spontaneously and contribute to behavior". https://academic.oup.com/hmg/article/13/suppl_2/R267/619697
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Annoying too that much of the human race has trouble seeing the similarities which leads to so much division. Totally agree, Arielle...when we're talking about the human race or the big picture. But she seemed to be in pain over others not understanding her perspective about this issue...so was responding to her personal feelings.
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I hope you keep in mind that there are plenty of people in 2nd life who relate to it the way you do. It is annoying, I know, that the human race has trouble accepting differences.
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Well I'd like to take the credit for being concerned here...hehe...and have been concerned about you before...I was not being so in this case, and I never thought you weren't capable of answering. I was only pointing to you as the latest instance of Theresa assuming others are stereotyping (first me, then you) in the hopes that Theresa would see what we both were doing is not actually stereotyping others.
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I suppose that's one way to do it. I just base it off personal experiences I've had with myself and the many different men and women and enbys (all of whom did not fit any defined molds either) that I've known throughout my life. The main issue I always have with these things is I loathe generalizations and have ever since I was old enough to have them thrown my way. You can't say/do/want that - you're a girrrrrrl. Uh huh. If I let my gender or anything else (that's a whole other issue) define me, I wouldn't be the person I am today. People are so unique, and reducing everything to "men do this" and "women do that" never seems to account for those of us who don't do any of those things and view all that as a completely foreign concept. I was making a differentiation between sociological/historical research vs hard core science and experimentation....not between personal experience vs science (either hard or soft science). The context, the sentences before and after the one you quoted, make that clearer. Like you, my personal experience plays a strong part in what I believe, although I do try to keep in mind I'm only one person and so can't make generalizations for all people. I hate stereotypes too, but there is a difference between a stereotype vs what has been discovered to be true via valid scientific research. "Girls can't do or pursue certain goals in life because blah blah blah" is a stereotype. "Girls, on average, and at this point in time, acquire language faster in early development"... is a scientific fact. It's just as wrong to dismiss differences discovered via scientific fact as it would be to stereotype all women as unable to pursue certain goals in life just because they're female. What I've seen in this thread (not by you) is that the assertion of any differences between male/female discovered through scientific research, via the list in the article I provided as well as with the personal experience of some posters, is automatically assumed to be a harmful stereotype. It's not. ster·e·o·type 1. a widely held but fixed and oversimplified image or idea of a particular type of person or thing. "the stereotype of the woman as the carer" This is my issue with the Gen X/Boomer/blah blah blah categorizations -- they appear to be stereotypes because they are oversimplified, and for me don't have enough scientific backing to be valid.
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Experience can be very useful, of course. However, that doesn't change the fact that other people are independent entities that may or may not behave in the way one's experience would suggest that they will. That would suggest that basing an assumption about someone's behavior on one's experience and acting on it without getting information specific to the other person is a bad idea. (Note: I am in no way suggesting that Persephone does this. But there are people in this world who do.) Totally agree. That's why, personally, I say that I make an effort to "hold my personal experience and research on behavior" lightly in my mind as I pay attention to the present moment and what is happening now with any unique individual person I'm encountering. It's all too easy to project onto others, and very difficult to maintain awareness.
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Maybe. I'm Gen X, so who knows what that means other than we invented all kinds of fun stuff like apathy. 🤣 Yeah I don't give a lot weight to the Gen X/Boomer/blah blah blah category notions. These articles point out they're pretty much nonsense, although fun to mess around with at times: https://theconversation.com/baby-boomers-gen-x-millennials-and-gen-z-labels-necessary-or-nonsense-132161 https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/generation-x-y-millennials-do-exist-alvin-stone Many of my beliefs and attitudes about differences between male/female and sexuality are more based in hard core science...experiments that demonstrate differences/similarities. Though I do believe in sociological studies when they reference cultural phenomena I've studied in historical research. When I refer to generational differences I'm more speaking to how our attitudes have changed over time to where Western society is not as inhibited as it was in the past regarding sexuality in general, and this would likely apply to discussion of sexual/gender matters with the opposite gender as well.
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FIFY Because I hope you don't assume that every woman is interested in "girl talk." I would think her assumptions would likely be based on her experience over the years.
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Debate is a way to try to fix what people think. Teaching is a way to open someone's mind. Venting feelings is the way people teach themselves. Learning and expressing are more effective, people can't be forced what to think. This thread has debate, but there's also teaching and expression in it. I don't see much military conflict, it's a good thread. Interesting thoughts on the way we learn...and can be applied to 2nd life, this thread, or to Gopi as he traverses his gender-bending life in 2nd life and considers how to relate to others.. You and I differ on our definition of 'debate'. For me, debate is a way for people to discover truth together. It has nothing to do with "forcing another what to think", as you say, and everything to do with people thinking critically and backing up their claims either by direct experience or cited research, and then arriving at truth together, sometimes agreeing on what they've discovered, and sometimes not. Unfortunately, sometimes a person can only care about winning and not discovering truth, and when this happens I don't see the purpose for debating, as it's really crossed the line into just arguing. I felt this was happening with the person you quoted, evidenced by the insult, and is why I confronted her. I agree that teaching can be a way to open someone's mind, but in teaching someone there's more the assumption that the teacher holds some truth and is imparting it to another person, whereas in debate I'm not assuming I'm the only one with knowledge, but instead we are debating (exploring both our realities and backing up our claims with personal examples or more objective experiments) as a way to discover the truth together. I might change my mind if my debating partner is able to show me perspectives I had not considered. Venting feelings is a way people can teach themselves, as you say, but it can also be a way that a person continues a destructive pattern if they don't get in touch with their core pain and let it go (let it dominate their lives too much). My Heart Menders group, dealing with death and loss, is based on the notion that by getting in touch with our core feelings surrounding grief (via expressing them or venting while others listen) we are able to heal and move forward to the next stage in the grief process, whatever that may be. Some, however, have a hard time with valuing feelings and don't realize the importance of getting in touch with pain, and don't understand how being a listener who is holding space for another and meeting them where they are facilitates this process.
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I don't know how you can agree or disagree, as this is simply the way Persephone decided to relate to men and not up for our approval or agreement really. I simply wanted to know if she has a set way from the get-go regarding what she'll discuss with a man, or whether she susses this out on a case-by-case basis. It appears Sam1 has stronger boundaries around this dynamic, and holds firmer boundaries regarding what she'll discuss with a woman vs what she'll discuss with a man...from the very get-go. With me, I know sometimes the sexes are embarrassed discussing sexual or gender issues with the opposite sex, and so as I said before "I hold this knowledge in my mind" and test the waters more carefully with the opposite sex, approach carefully. I know what the typical social mores are around it and keep this in mind, but don't let it define the interaction entirely. lol I'm remembering this one guy waving his hands and saying TMI !!!! (too much information) when I mentioned something that obviously was embarrassing for him to be discussing with a woman.
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Oh it's those ones who seem so normal and boring that you really have to watch out for!!! ;0
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Aren't you the one who posted the "in general" list of differences between men and women? Seems odd you'd need to ask this question. I was asking Persephone how she experiences relating to men vs women when she discloses information about herself, so nothing to do with an article citing various ways men and women have been found to be different on average.
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There may be a bit of a generational divide with this issue where in the past the sexes were more secretive about certain topics with each other, but younger people not so much.
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Do you test this out with each individual man or just assume every man is a certain way?
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It's the whole Girl in a Guy shirt thing.. Men love it!! \o/ hehehe lol that's gotta be it! She looks to cute, definitely not a threat! Although seriously, I did hear of some guys who murdered a trans man, not far from where I live actually. But there were complexities in the whole situation -- the trans man had established a romantic relationship with the woman when the murderer wanted her as his own.
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I'm not going to ask for consent to present as a fictional character in a cartoon world. I'm only meaning if a more real life/closer relationship is developing. So context is important here. I wouldn't ask for consent either if floating around in my man alt or my little kitty avatar, or as any human that's roleplaying. But if become close to someone, and sensing they are feeling they are sharing real aspects of themselves, then I'd either explain I'm just roleplaying or I'd drop the facade and relate on a real level. The trick is to be sensitive and realize when this is happening for someone, as I would not want them to feel deceived.
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I really hope, @Ayashe Ninetails, that people are more accepting of the LGBTQ+ community within 2nd life (I guess that includes you, a non-binary person, right?). So I listen to your experience and it's heartening. But then I remember Katherine's difficulties and how rude people were to her, and how some (even on this thread) are quite intolerant of those who are different in many respects. And I remember griefer type people coming in to the forum and espousing their super-conservative views on these matters a couple years ago, and how even an attempt to get a thread dedicated to the LGBTQ+ community was dissed (even though opposing people came in exhibiting their prejudiced views and ruining even an attempt to ask for such a thread, thereby proving one was actually needed!). I also know that what goes around in 1st life ends up in 2nd life. So I'm afraid, weighing it all, I don't think 2nd life is such an accepting place for the LGBTQ+ community. Perhaps it's improved, but it has a long way to go. So I have to say, @Gopi Passiflora,if you venture away from your stated claims of just exploring but not being close to others, be careful!
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This reminded me of a friend in 2nd life I thought was supportive of the LGBTQ community, but when they had a pretty big tiff with a transgender woman they started calling them "it" or "he" (when previously they referred to them as "she"). When people do this it makes me wonder just how supportive they really were.
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