Couldbe Yue

try taper, that should give you different legths for each side (assuming that's what your pic is implying).

what would our second lives be like without these little hiccups? Hopefully they'll sort it soon at least they're giving the appearance of working on it.

Toysoldier Thor wrote: To show how limited and overwhelmed the LL development team is.... a bug that showed up in August on SL Transaction History downloads responding with BLANK FILES has been known for over a week by LL and yet not one response or action has been taken to repair this bug to their financial transaction system that serveral merchants rely upon for tracking revennue and expenses needed for tax reporting. Brooke must have heard you http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/AUG-TRANSACTION-DOWNLOADS-BLANK/m-p/1088195#M8628 assuming this link works - if no just go to the transaction thread and you'll see her post.

Darrius Gothly wrote: Hmmm .. so I guess no one would want to purchase my S.A.E.D? (S.A.E.D. stands for the Swine Altitude Enhancement Device ... AKA Flying Pig Launcher) lol if it ever happens I'll grab one and fill the skies!

Darrius Gothly wrote: Dartagan Shepherd wrote: Not sure, but with a decent dev team (even reasonably small) I would expect to see a weekly or bi-weekly report that more resembles the SL server reports. X, Y and Z bugs fixed. Requested features X and Y added. Stubs implemented to get the ball rolling on requested feature Z. Improvements to reporting, reporting time periods extended to 6 months, graphs re-implemented. Marketplace reporting and transaction history can now actually reconcile. Did I mention reporting? Seconded! I don't ever think it's going to happen, sadly but it would be nice as that token gesture to us to show they recognise we are trying to run real businesses in here. You never know though, one day we may get it and even get stats for the inworld listings/classifieds too - probably sometime around hell freezing over

three managers and a new guy?? lol, no wonder they don't get anything done.

I just went searching for nelson's web profile and it is looking pretty sparse https://my.secondlife.com/nelson.linden same with Dakota https://my.secondlife.com/dakota.linden Brookes is at least filled out https://my.secondlife.com/brooke.linden I checked meta's as well and it seems to be still active (although you can't tell these days as I don't think they remove them when people leave - but it's been updated since the web profiles came in so perhaps she is still around but she's part of the data warehouse team rather than commerce) I supect there's a max of 4 on the team as Brooke has a slm group that is closed and has 4 members. I did a quick stroll through search to see if I could find anything interesting and found they have their own island called commerce island (well, I assume it's theirs) and under slm found the second life marxists and secondlife mercenaries. I didn't pull up a lot of information that gave me great confidence. What happened to Collussus (?) I thought he had survived the cull last year.

I think meta has gone because I saw a post a few months ago where the person formally known as meta said she was formerly known as meta.. It could be that she has taken on another linden role and gave up the name but I assumed that she just moved on.

So how many are in the team now? I don't even know that anymore. I know LL have a *ahem* project management team and Rod keeps crowing about them being so profitable now. so I would not expect LL to have such little project management/business management experience that somehow all the team is seconded to the dev project at the total expense of the the maintenance stuff. That's pushing it even for LL. so the supersekrit meetings may or may not still be happening, the jira's are being ignored and they're going out of their way to avoid us (just where did those stickies go???) and they've gone quiet on the DD in the hope we forget about it. Does that sum it up? (and a hug to Dartagnan, I gather you've joined the ranks of the disillusioned. It's not a nice place to be but it leads to less heartache.)

Do they still exist? apart from jigging around with search results I can't remember anything new since they put in the changes to the search box functionality. Do the private inworld meetings still happen? Has there been any kind of public communication lately? Exclude the direct delivery stuff - it shouldn't take the full team (unless the team is only two now, a dev and a cs person) to do that, I'm taking about the current marketplace website. I'm concerned they've cut the immediate feedback loop as well, as I don't even seem to be able to find those sticky posts where they talked about their progress. Are we living another windlight where the delivery rather than the quality or completeness defined its success? I admit I stopped paying a lot of attention because it's such a timesink for no reasonable reward for the effort but my curiosity has now got the better of me, so I'm asking. edited because all my nice formatting vanished when I posted it so now I'm trying to make it more readable

what are the maturity ratings for the sandboxes? Is there an adult one?

Darrius Gothly wrote: *sigh* Okay, my use of the word "demanding" was a bit more emphatic than your actual language. My apologies for amplifying your sentiment beyond your actual statement. However, do you accept that some folks will want to deliver their items boxed .. only .. and don't give a hang about unboxed deliveries? If you had the power to choose how items could be delivered, would you remove the boxed item option, or would you allow it to survive because some folks prefer it over delivery of unboxed items? considering I'd never actually made a statement about removing the option until my last post, that's disingenous (you could have just apologised and admitted it was just an erroneous impression. After all, we've all done that before) but since you seem to want to push this to prove some kind of point, I'll answer. My preference is that we make life as easy as possible for people to buy and use the items we sell. There are instances where boxed items are still necessary (I have boxed items with a lot of my sale items because I need to keep those pieces together for people and sub folders aren't creatable in objects) but I'm hoping that over time people will stop using boxes as a delivery container as a matter of course, hopefully as they understand more about usability issues. From the way the design appears to be, as long as there is a folder in the DD out folder LL don't care what is in it - so it can be boxed or not. No one is having anything forced upon them - even using the out folder is optional at the moment because as I understand it they're going to keep the magic boxes after implementation and they may never remove them as it's certainly not unheard of for LL to abandon a feature part way through. misconstrue as you will. and in case you're interested. I'm not going to migrate over for a while, like Toy I'm going to wait for all the major defects that somehow escaped their notice prior to release to be resolved. Then I'll consider it. What I may do is put some of my items in there to see what happens but I'm certainly not going to waste even more of my time on a new feature that on past performance, the chances of them changing and generating yet more work to adapt to is so high.

but I only said that after you'd made the previous post and it still doesn't come close to the statement you claim I made.. your statement in that previous post said: "But demanding one method be removed because it isn't your choice is just not an acceptable solution for anyone. I'm quite sure you'd be just as vocal if suddenly it was determined that nothing may be delivered unboxed .. ever .. because someone in LL somewhere decided boxed items were their preference and thus the only method supported henceforth." which implied that I had demanded that it be removed.. I asked for proof - you can't provide. Tsk Tsk I give people a big enough target for them to get upset at me without people having to make stuff up.

Darrius Gothly wrote: Couldbe Yue wrote: [..] Some of you may agree with me and most wont - that's your choice. [..] This one sentence is the truth and (sorry to say) most persuasive argument against you. No, not the agreeing part .. the choices part. It all boils down to offering the customers of SL as many and varied choices as is reasonable and possible. Declaring boxed items as "dead art" because a few folks would prefer having them delivered unboxed is tantamount to removing choices, not supporting them. We do disagree on many things, that's no big surprise. But demanding one method be removed because it isn't your choice is just not an acceptable solution for anyone. I'm quite sure you'd be just as vocal if suddenly it was determined that nothing may be delivered unboxed .. ever .. because someone in LL somewhere decided boxed items were their preference and thus the only method supported henceforth. The real solution is to support both (or all) methods with equal ease and facility. This is why I argue against LL touting unboxed item delivery as "The Killer Feature". In the final analysis, it's just another choice that will appeal to some and annoy others. I never said that they should be removed. please provide the statement you're referring to. I admit that I'm hoping that one day they will be and I had assumed that if they were going to require folders then people would unbox as I do think boxes are a barrier to ease of use but I'll wait for you to give me the quote. That way I can see what you are referring to.

I got sidetracked a bit these last few days but I'm back now and so will resurrect this thread to respond. It's a bit of a major novel I'm afraid. @ Tari Landar  "The assumption that boxed items equates with laziness on the part of the merchant is a pretty poor argument and isn't going to win you any cookies, that's for sufe." It's a good thing I'm not out to make friends then isn't it? I'm far more brutal about LL than I am about my fellow merchants. "The same goes for learning how to open boxes in sl. It's not "old fashioned"(come on now, really? old fashioned? Geeze louise it's not like Sl is decades old here). " Second Life is almost 10 years old in internet terms that's legacy rather than fresh and new. Newbies and boxing has always been an issue inworld. I'm sorry, but I've never subscribed to the theory that just because some people do it that way, it's the way it should be done. Most retailers who understand the basics of retailing know that making it as easy as possible for people to start enjoying their product are going to have an edge on those who don't. @ Peewee Musytari "Not necessary to learn how to open a box? Its a fundamental function of SL which they will encounter everywhere they go. Most of them probably learnt it from getting a freebie box somewhere before they ever went to the marketplace." I think you may be making an erroneous assumption now. Only LL can tell us but my highly unscientific observation is that people aren't going to the freebie palaces anymore for their stuff, their first stop is most likely the marketplace. @ Darrius Gothly "Rather than boxed items being "crack", I feel strongly that it's more like veggies. (Not always tasty, but essential to good virtual living.)". I probably wasn't clear when I wrote this, I don't think boxed items are the crack - Second Life is the crack. Think about it, despite everything they've done to us and the poor quality of the platform and service, we've stuck around where the majority of the lesser mortals have left. It's a huge learning curve to get comfortable with second life and is actually a serious committment of time. For better or worse, most of us are here until they close the doors but these days there are a lot more web based options for people to spend their time on. We can either continue to make it hard for people to get into it by saying that it was good enough for us so it's good enough for them or we can try to make it easier for them to acclimatise and get on with the business of enjoying themselves in here rather than struggling with the alternatives. your comment about resizer scripts is valid but what you miss is the law of unintended consequences. People loved those scripts as it made it easy for them and there were a large number of people who would not buy anything that didn't have one in. They want things as easy as possible and that hasn't changed No solution in here is ever fully realised or perfect or universally accepted. It's always a trade off. I still don't see that as a reason for not doing things, particularly when (as in this case) usability will be greatly improved. @ Toysoldier Thor "Unless LL decides to fundamentally re-engineer the SL grid fundamentals - EVERY SL RESIDENT WILL NEED TO KNOW THE SKILL OF REZZING AND UNBOXING AND COPYING INTO INVENTORY. " the only reason this is a fundamental is because people use networked vendors or delivery systems. There's not too many web shopping portals these days and I doubt they're used by many, but the vendors are used and in many cases probably aren't the best choice when all elements are assessed. My main point originally though was that it shouldn't be a skill that newbies need to learn straight away. It can come later but it shouldn't be critical to whether or not they can surivive those first few weeks. The rest of your comments there are just your preferences. Unlike you, I choose to sell my items unboxed inworld because people can see what they are buying before hand and they have a folder sent straight to their inventory so they don't have to worry about unpacking, getting rid of the box etc. My choice for selling and delivering items comes from when I was a noob all those years ago. Whenever I bought something I had to find somewhere to unpack it (and I *hated* sandboxes because of the griefing), then I had to rez the thing and copy it into my inventory (and hope the auto return function didn't hit me before I'd finished - the first time it happened I had no idea what had happened). I didn't even know about the open function until I'd been here something like 6 months, so I used to create a folder and then drag everything in. It was time consuming and not much fun at all. When I finally got my first land, I bought a couple of items that I knew were low prim enough to go on the land - for both of them I couldn't even rez the box because the boxes were so high prim they were over the prim allowance. All I wanted was the damn items! I can still remember buying a rather fetching outfit and when I rezzed the box the asset server ate it (remember those days?). I never did get that outfit. You want to tell me how any of this was a positive experience? As for the box being marketing, I never do more than give a casual glance to the box - even if it's a vendor. I want what is inside. As a retailer, if I think they need pics I'll include one (always good practice) same with useguides etc. I'm sure some people do get excited at a nice boxed item but reality says they really are after the contents. If you've included a LM then the marketing is them using the item, loving it and coming back for more. A box they may see for a few minutes when they first rez it, it's really much more than a bit of reinforcement at the time. Some of you may agree with me and most wont - that's your choice. Call me old fashioned but I want people to have a positive shopping experience and if that means work on my part then so be it (with a lot of matyred grumbling though). I do think the unboxed delivery is a positive step forward and I think DD delivery folder is also a boon. Unfortunately though it's LL that's doing the developing of this so the actual outcome is indeterminable at the moment. As always, we'll work around the flaws in whatever they deliver and carry on doing what we do. I'm happy to join the v2 (or most other) luddite parades but in this case I think these changes are small in the great scheme of things but overwhelming a step in the right direction. ymmv.

I don't understand why one comment on making life easier for newbies has put such a bee in the bonnet of a couple of you but why should they have to learn if it's not necessary? It's only necessary at the moment because server based deliveries require it. If people want to use server based that's their choice but they don't have a right to foist it on others because they choose the easy option for them to distribute their stuff. and turning your argument around, why should we force people to learn to do things that are old fashioned? Why should we teach kids to write cursive when 99% of their writing is on a keyboard? Why do kids need to tell the time using a clock when 99% of time displayed these days is digitial? Those examples are as relevant as yours. The desire is there for this, the popularity of resizer scripts proved it undoubtedly. There are a lot of people who don't know how to edit an object since resizers came in. They don't want to know and I'm sure some will not wear something if it doesn't have a resizer whilst others will learn if they need to. It should be the same with boxed objects - there's no need for that to have to be one of the first things they struggle with. They're here to have fun, not be frustrated by someone elses laziness. So, I'm afraid I'm not of the opinion that just because we managed to stay hooked on this crack, everyone else should suffer as we did.  I certainly know that if I buy clothing inworld and it's boxed then I'm not happy - usually I want to wear it then and there and can't because I have to go home to unbox it. I can remember when I first came in - it took me around 6 weeks before I was really comfortable with the viewer and felt at home in here. These days there are a lot more online options for wasting recreational time and whatever can be done to reduce the steep learning curve and make life easier for us is a bonus. As we can see by the retention rate, a lot of people are finding sl too difficult or boring or whatever to stick around. Ultimately, it's LLs business and they'll do as they see fit , just like we do with our businesses. In the end, without newbies SL is in a hole, retention is dropping and without new blood it's going to stagnate and die. They may not be my market but I want LL to improve the retention rate from the almost non existent to something better, so if this goes even a small way to doing it then fine by me and the discussion about the priorities of the commerce team and LL priorities/decisions in general is irrelevant to this thread.

Toysoldier Thor wrote: LL didnt understand why we wanted independent inventory from main inventory when they first started the idea of DD. I still think they dont grasp the risks. I have to agree with this. There's a couple of issues that I'm not too comfortable with and past performance indicates that it's most likely going to go horribly wrong but for better or worse we're stuck with whatever they deliver. Since this is already running a couple of months late obviously there's major issues on their side. LL aren't usually shy about dumping sub standard rubbish on us and calling it beta just to make their project delivery dates, so I'm assuming that it's not a bed of roses in NDA alpha test land. I'd like to say that they're trying to get it right before they inflict it on us but we know that's not true, don't we?

Lasher Oh wrote: Good succinct explanation Toy, that is exactly how I understand the proposed change as well. When the Direct Delivery idea was first mooted a year or so ago I thought then it was simply just a case of placing the packs we already have in our magic boxes into a new dedicated folder. Which would then send the item direct without the need for a third party not so Magic Script to clog up the works during lag storms. Simple easy done no fuss no bother - carry on trading as normal. I WAS all for it! But then someone in their infinite stupidity thought that it would be a cute idea if we just deliver our customers already opened folders. Thus denying them the handy and important pop-up notecards we include and doing away with all those nicely crafted boxes and packaging that made so much difference to brand presentation. That for me is like handing over a birthday or Christmas present without any wrapping yeeeeeeuch! how tacky is that! I'll give the commerce team top marks for consistency though. Ever since LL aquired and created their marketplace monopoly, they have periodically forced us down the road of perpetual time wasting revisions and alterations to our listings. But then as Couldbe said in her post LL are "not in the business of making life easy for us" ^L^ It's not so bad for me as I rarely leave my land but for the landless or those out and about when they buy stuff it's a pain to get a box, find somewhere to rez it (not everyone knows the hand trick - which is a kludgy work around at best) copy it into the inventory, remember to take the box back, fish around to find the folder and only then actually get to the item. A folder is quick and easy and will make life a lot more bearable for consumers. And a common newbie complaint is that they buy and item and all they get is a box - this will remove this roadblock and make shopping more seamless for them. Which is a big win. Even though this is yet another time overhead for me, I think this one is actually an extremely positive change. I'm all for making it easy for people to buy and enjoy stuff. ~~~ yes, I have a vested interest here - I'm all for ease of use. I refuse to use networked vendors in my shops as I prefer one prim vendors where people can see what they are getting (including perms) and it delivers a folder to them. I rarely have delivery issues with this and it reduces lag on my region because I'm not running script laden vendors. It's a lot more work for me particularly with my satellites but it's clean, easy and user friendly. Which I'm all for, in all its forms. Particularly with the way the sl economy is at the moment we should all be trying to make shopping as easy as possible for people. And no, I'm not looking forward to unboxing something like 600 odd items to create the folders to set this up but considering all the rubbish they've put us through down the last few years for very little gain, I think this one is a winner.

The easiest way to create the folders will be to copy your magic box contents into your inventory and then one by one open them and copy to your inventory - that way they have the same name as the current box and should link to the listing and you have everything in the folder waiting to be delivered. Then it's just a matter of moving all the folders into your main DD folder. ymmv and of course the chances are LL will come up with a way to make this "simple" workaround more complex but hey ho. They're not in the business of making life easy for us

Peewee Musytari wrote: Pamela Galli wrote: I threw in the towel on search. If my two sims of prefabs (and 2 sims of furniture) with good traffic and sales don't rank well in search, while 2048 parcels rank at the top, well, nothing I can do about that. LL's world, LL's rules. Fortunately, my stuff is all over the grid so I get a ton of "word of mouth" business, so I will just settle for that. For those who don't sell stuff that is so visible, it's a different matter. I also have three pages of enhancements on MP, tho no clue how much good those do. Can't hurt I suppose. But I agree that LL seems to want to kill off sources of tier. It will be a very long time before I buy another sim. ^^This^^ I have a 512 with no traffic that does not even sell buildings ranking above my sim in a buildings search, none of it makes any sense anymore & I have given up trying to figure out why. People can find me by word of mouth or my stuff that is all over the grid. If they don`t, they don`t, I am past caring tbh. QFT. The last major change to search (may/June this year?) had a devastating effect on my inworld sales, but then so have these animals people seem to go gooey over and the marketplace (to an extent - I have a theory about that) and concurrency dropping and the economically active dropping and everything else LL does to screw us over whilst loudly proclaiming how profitable they are. The only comment I'd make is that as a consumer I detest full regions that have every keyword under the sun. Yes, they may actually sell these things but there's only one landing point and the stuff could be anywhere. When I land in places like they I leave rather than go hunting. Since a lot of the larger sellers have turned into virtual department stores, what I'd like to see is a way that a group owned parcel in a region could be divided up and still maintain the bonus given to relative to the whole area. That way people might actually parcel up their areas properly and put the relevant items together. Now that would make me happy.

It's a bug that LL introduced in july and haven't yet got around to fixing it. the easiest way to work around it is get your partner to log off then you open your partner's web profile page (http://my.secondlife.com/firstname.lastname), find the actions button and click on it and select permissions choose the perms you want to give. once you've done that, they can log in and will have the permissions applied. or you can download a v2 viewer that has web profiles and supposedly do it as usual in there.

Phil Deakins wrote: The text that you copied and pasted here doesn't state what I said explicitly. I'm referring to what Blondin stated explicitly in the public discussions at the time leading up to the introduction of adult land; i.e. that it's ok to use sex animations in stores for the purpose of deciding whether or not to buy, provided that no "naughty bits" are uncovered. Nothing has changed since then, and what I said about sex animations in stores on mature land is correct. Incidentally, I've used the words "bits" etc. merely to avoid using the word "nude" or "naked", the first of which was used in this thread. The use of those latter words can be taken to mean that it's ok to do sex animations as long as no av is nude; e.g. wearing a scarf, hat or t-shirt, but nothing covering those "bits",. Of course, whilst it's perfectly ok to do nude sex in private on mature land, it's not ok to do nude sex is public places, such as stores. My choice of words meant that it's not ok to do sex animations in stores even if the avs are not nude but have their "bits" uncovered. I always understood it that way as well - no sex, no pink bits and you're fine. Before the move I had my store reviewed by Blondin and he said I could stay on mature as long as I didn't advertise - meaning not using adult keywords. which of course made absolutely no sense to me as the idea that a word in a classified was considered so abhorrent yet the item being on sale wasn't, was outside my comprehension and so I moved. With hindsight I should have stayed on mature and done what some of the others did and just santised the ads but then in those days I misunderstood LL and assumed a level of consistency and competence that was subsequently proved otherwise. hey ho

or of course you could just rent space in one of the places that will store magic boxes for you - that way you don't have to have land you don't actually need. or you could just wait until direct delivery gets here and you won't the box at all. If you end up buying adult mainland, welcome to zindra

Gadget Portal wrote: If clothes aren't mod/copy, they're borderline worthless. Except maybe as freebies, I guess? whereas I won't buy copy clothes unless they're cheap as I don't see them as having any real value to me. It takes all kinds I suppose. mod is definately required though - although I only seem to find them in the newer/less adept creators, who seem to think resize scripts are the only way to go.

What you can try to do is up the number of repeats of the wallpaper. To do this select the wall and edit, click the "select texture" radio button and touch the wall you want to fix then go to the "texture" tab and play around with horizontal and vertical repeats per face fields until you have something you can live with. It may not work depending on the shape ratio of the original texture and whether or not it was designed to tile (have mulitple seamless repeats on the same face) but it should give you something better than you've currently got. I hope that makes sense and good luck