ImaTest1488314069

Porky Gorky wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: that is probably the worst advice i have ever seen.. Do not add adjectives to your keywords. they have nothing to do with your item. Seriously? The internet is awash with bad advice, if that is the worst you have ever seen then you have lived a very sheltered life. Try googleing something random like "how do I remove a hamster from my arse". It will open up a whole new world of bad advice for you to immerse yourself in and it will make you realise that although Spica's advise is odd, it is not bad, just another perspective on describing things. I don't often tell someone they are flat out wrong or giving terrible advice, but I agree with drake. That was terrible advice. Not because it's completely ineffective, it very well may prove to give some results. The problem is you're just opening yourself to be flagged and have your item removed. When/if that happens, your stuff, once re-listed properly, will be at the bottom, again. You'll be back at square one. Wasted time, and likely lost revenue. Any idea that would open someone up for potential flagging and/or removal, is bad advice. It may be a different perspective, but it's still terrible advice. I see no point in giving advice at all if you're going to tell people they should test the listing guidelines, or flat out go against them. This goes double for someone just starting out. It's hard enough to get your stuff out there for the masses, sometimes.

Bernie Shippe wrote: Clarissa Lowell wrote: It's against TOS. Should be end of the discussion there. Why wasn't it? when talking about advising people what to do, it should end there. it's one of those rare tos violations that ll seems to take seriously so don't do it. when talking about how *wrong* it is for people to use copybot, there's more to it than the tos and dmca. what about the case when the merchant has left the game? i buy a vehicle. copy, no mod, no trans. looks good. drives good. years go by. merchant leaves sl. server code changes. vehicle no longer drives good. it's unique and unreplaceable. assuming i could break the no mod and rescript it (and never give/sell my edited version), who does that hurt? the original merchant? no, they're long gone another merchant who sells something similar? no, they don't exist, the item is unique another merchant who can recreate the item? oh no, can't do that, that would violate the original merchant's ip so, if i could, i update the scripts myself. who specifically does that hurt and how specifically does that hurt? anyone, explain it to me. i'd really like to know. "it's against the law" that's not what i'm asking about. Back in the day, because I'm pretending to be old right now, I had some pretty awesome things. I still have many of those awesome things. The people, or companies, who made them no longer exist. Most of those people were probably dead long before my parents had an oops and named it me. It sure would be neat to have those things I loved(and love) so dearly in different styles, different colors, different designs. Especially the neat things that no longer work properly. But alas that is not to be for a great many of them, because those people cannot make/fix/design them for me. I surely cannot make/fix/design them all for myself, either. That was a rant about rl items, but the same sort of concept exists in sl, except with much stricter rules tacked on to the items we choose to buy and what we can or cannot do with/to them. In rl you do often have a bit more freedom as to what you can and cannot do with things you own. In sl, however, that's not always the case. You're bound by the rules you agree to, period. If you don't agree, don't buy. That's what I do. I really like modding things, though. So I tend to buy a lot more of them than others. Something you do does not have to hurt anyone for it to be wrong. A merchant does not have to lose a sale, or in any other way bothered by your actions(or even still be around/alive), in order for those actions to be against the rules you agreed to abide by. Rules are there for a reason. While I may be the first person to tell someone they should challenge things they don't agree with, I will also be the first person to say you should do so carefully and watch where you intend to tread. For me, it's not a matter of "I don't want to harm this merchant", it's a matter of "the TOS says I can't, so I won't".

Trinity Yazimoto wrote: i dont agree with you Ima.... yes, i understand your point about generic keywords will put your item in the middle of tons of others.. but it will still be findable.. if you expect the customer find the exact orginal keywords you found for your item, this one wont never be found or if it does it will happen really rarely.. a keyword has to be generic and this is why, usually, database that use keyboards have thesaurus.. that limit the keywords number.. and a good database with keyboard engine will even link differents keywords one to others. Like ie... "formal" and "gown".. whatever you will look for one or other of these 2 keywords, the engine will call the same keyword. (in french we call this "renvoi" (send back to) but i dont know the real equivalent of this word in english). but if everyone start creating their own fantaisist keywords it become a mess soon.. this is what we have in the mp bec there is no thesaurus... but every serious databas using thesaurus, use generic keywords...The purpose of a keyword is not to make your item appear first in the listing.. but just to make your item appear in the whole listing... Again... keywords are already really subjective like this, if you add on top the lil thing that make your item original for you, noone will guess this keyword...and so it will be useless... you may still add some original ones, but generic ones are a must. Generic keywords will get you results, of course. The question is then how do you distinguish your product from the tens of thousands of others who are also using those exact same generic keywords? Because a great majority of them will. You can see that for yourself just doing a little leg work on the mp. You're not going to do it by adding more generic keywords, I can guarantee you that. So if you choose to use generic keywords, I'd suggesting adding in other more specifically descriptive words that will define your product as something unlike everything else in that generic sort. If all you use are generic keywords your product will not be sorted any differently than everything else using the same keyword. You won't stand out in search alone. So you'll have to stand out in other ways. When just starting out, that's a bit difficult to achieve quickly. I will say though that keywords don't function, well don't garner the same kind of results everywhere. Just because they work one way in other areas, for other databases, uses and/or sites, does not necessarily mean they are as effective in a place like the marketplace. I only post to offer advice, and a different perspective because I have been there. I do know how keywords work, well how they are supposed to work. I also know what did not work for me on Slex, Xstreet and Marketplace. Having had experience with all three over the 7 years my store was open(I have experience with other online businesses as well, but the same practices don't always apply to sl/mp). I can agree to disagree on our methods as not everything will work for everyone, and not everyone will like every method. I only learned what I do know through trial and error, reading various forums and advice from other merchants and even directly speaking to a great many of them. It's definitely not just some opinion with no experience to back it up. Your mileage may vary, of course I do think you're forgetting that the description of the product will also be searched for whatever term(s) you put in the search box. This is why keywords being at least somewhat more descriptive and unique beyond a generic term will help them to stand out, a little bit more. I didn't say to make up your own words or use some fantastical words no one will ever search for. I said you should be specifically descriptive. "Dress", is not specifically descriptive. "Cocktail" is.(as an example)

When I sold items and listed on mp, I only used directly descriptive words. Using synonyms wouldn't be a good idea for most things, because those items aren't your item, and don't likely directly describe your item or are extremely vague. They might give a general idea, but that's still pretty vague. Getting a general idea is great if you're searching for something like "couch" and don't necessarily know what you're looking for. The more precise and clear you can be, the more likely search will be a friend to those wanting to find your item(s) and ones like it, specifically. Keywords are, key, to finding things quite often. They exist as a tool for shoppers to direct their search for a specific type of thing rather than just it's general sort. Their purpose is to give the search(er) some direction beyond "thing". For example.. for a cocktail dress. You could put "garment" in the keywords, but why would you? That's so vague when there are literally tens of thousands of "garments" on mp. You want people to find YOUR piece of clothing. So while garment is a synonym, it's far too vague a search term. It's not a very likely search term either so having it in the keywords probably won't garner you many looks, let alone sales. Using generic keywords while sometimes needed, isn't always the best idea(depends a lot on the item). A search for "dress" will bring up your dress, somewhere in the search pages. Those results can then be broken down even more, though, by using keywords. Your keywords are how someone will distinguish your dress from the tens of thousands kinda like it. So, be specifically dscriptive, not generically, and you'll likely have better luck.

I always use firestorm now. I've heard a lot of people say they like singularity because of the GUI. But firestorm has that same option. Actually firestorm offers a few options as far as that goes and it's pretty customizable. That's a big part of why I like it. I can make it look however I want, without much issue. I am a man of habit, so having my V1 "look", with all the bells and whistles I need(and the ones I don't turned off), is pretty cool to me. I have a higher crash rate with any of the Sl viewers. I always have. I've tried to figure out why, to no avail. I'm really not certain what it is with my pc(and the others I also own and have tried) that disagrees with it so very much. But they clearly do not get along. My crash rate with firestorm is virtually non-existant.

Malanya wrote: Any landowners that aren't rental companies think I am wrong in thought, would love to hear your opinion and also to see if your sim is open for people to use as a home base, rez boxes and so forth. I know a lot of landowners that actually don't care, they just don't necessarily make it public news. I know of a lot of shop owners and people who rent plots from others who aren't always using their sims and welcome others to come and enjoy, rez or make a "login spot" for themselves. As long as those who enjoy clean up after themselves, aren't a nuisance to others who might be there too and generally behave. That seems to be the concensus among the people I do know. I was one of those people when I owned land. I had two sims at one time. One I used primarily for myself and friends to enjoy and build on. I had quite a few friends who basically squatted. But I let them. The other sim had my store and was a public sim. Plenty of people set this as their home, or I should say used it as their home to login/logoff. I didn't much mind. I had an area people were free to rez. I had an autoreturn and/or no rez on for specific parcels on the sim. I also had other parcels without autoreturn and build was on. As long as everyone who used my land remembered that they were a guest and should act accordingly, I had no issues. In the period of 2005 until early 2012 I had a total of four griefers, and a few minor issues I wouldn't qualify as griefing. I know, definitely not common, but that was just my experience. I do happen to attribute the lack of problems to the fact that my land wasn't seen as taboo to the ones using it. The rules, so to speak since they were pretty few and common sense, were right there for anyone to read. There was no novelty to using my land for their "bad" purposes when I was open and welcoming to all, I guess. I had plenty of room and prims. I definitely wasn't using all of it, so I saw no reason not to share. I was already paying for it and seemed a waste to not use it all. Of course anyone is free to do whatever they want to do with their own land. I wouldn't suggest people should do as I do. Just sharing my ways and how plenty of others I have come across over the years do things too. If I still had a sim, especially multiple, it would be the same way. The day I can open another sim, it will be another public use sim identical to what I already had. I quite liked it. Was also a great way to chat people up randomly. The place I login now is above a friend's property. I sometimes build there too, when I do go inworld to build. I don't take up space or a lot of prims. Any prims I put out, I clean up. I leave nothing out. I mess with absolutely no one. This friend is one of the people that started out as a newbie sort of squatting on my land here and there in 2009. So I guess it comes full circle sometimes.

Monti Messmer wrote: Hello, it´s midnite here and i can´t be ar... to read thru the guidlines but ... Wasn´t there a rule of no selling real items, are pictures items, on SL ? It´s common ingame so the marketplace shouldn´t be any different but who knows ;-) Monti That policy refers to selling tangible rl items via the marketplace, or inworld. In other words if you have say a real shirt you want to sell, you cannot use the marketplace/sl to sell it and make lindens. As long as the product you are selling is an actual sl product(for instance an sl replica/version of that same shirt, or in this case, the pictures) and you follow all of the other selling guidelines, you are able to sell said item on the marketplace or inworld for lindens. Pictures that someone owns and has all rights to, as long as they follow all of the listing guidelines, are allowed to be sold on the marketplace. In this case, if they are indeed pictures of the person selling them, or at least they have all rights and own the pictures, they should be allowed to sell them. They do have to be marked adult of course. They don't necessarily have to be pictures on a prim. They can be just the textures themselves. I used to sell a rather large amount of rl photos I'd taken over the years. All perfectly legit since I owned the photos in question and had every right to do with them as I please, providing I stayed within the guidelines. As for the OP and if this is what the marketplace is for....why not? Why wouldn't someone be allowed to sell something, a product that follows all guidelines, just because it's adult rated? I'm guessing you have more issue with the pornographic nature than anything, based on how the questions were asked. If such things weren't allowed, there would be a lot more violations on the marketplace than we already see. A whole lot more.

Where are you from? East Coast, USA When did you join SL originally? Mid-2004, didn't much care for it. Came back early 2005 and stuck around on that av until early 2012 when I closed up shop and took up permenent residence on this av (which was created for the "can you create a business entirely for free" challenge some time ago in the forums...and the answer us yes, btw) What have you mainly spent your time doing in SL in the past? building, customer service, helping others, wandering around aimlessly, enjoying all the wonders sl has to bestow upon me, the usual How are you planning to spend your time in SL in 2013? I don't get inworld as much as I'd like these days. When I do, it will be, and is, more of the same.

Gadget Portal wrote: Alright. I'll spell it out for everybody. My complaint is and has always been with people that use the wrong computers to access SL, then complain about the experience, or worse, want the experience dumbed down to their level. If you're the type that uses one of those underperforming computers and doesn't complain, doesn't expect technology to stop for you- great. All the more power to you, and I respect that you can put up with the SL experience that way. But as long as LL keeps spending resources on obsolete technology, things will never improve. It's nice that they're finally implimenting something like server side baking. That's going to help lag, help framerates, and overall, improve the grid for everyone. Does it suck that some viewers will be left out? Sure. Would I rather see that than see the grid not improve? Absolutely. I'm going to add something else, too. As of January 1st, I was laid off. The company I worked for closed their doors. My income went from fairly decent to essentially nothing, while I still have bills that need to be paid. And even with that being the case, I still made that offer to spend my time and my money to help people if they asked me for help. I've made the offer before, too, in world and on the forums. I've seen threads, including by solstyse, on how to better optimize a computer to run SL... Yet there's never any followup from the people that supposedly need the help. Only fresh posts complaining that their computer can't handle SL. And instead of "Hey, yeah, can you help me find a cheap way to upgrade?" or "Sure, I'll take your old GPU, since you offered to mail it to me for free.", the replies to my offers have been that I'm mean and have a pathetic RL. So at this point, I absolutely believe that most (keyword, most.) people in SL that complain about their junk computers just want everyone to pity them, and don't want to do anything to fix it. And so, as long as we're talking about "just how pathetic [my] rl is", or how I "actually insult humanity", despite these things, then yes. You people are whiny little girls that would rather complain than take steps to fix the problem. I can tell you why I'd never personally accept your help. I am only stating this because A-you told me to go re-read your other post, which I had already done and it still didn't change anything I had to say earlier, and B-I'm not sure you realize how you're coming across to people despite people, repeatedly, telling you how it seems. You're not alone in that, you're not the only one who's made similar statements. I guess my personal opinion is more a cover-all than just a direct comment to you and only you. Some of my comments are direct, but not all are only applicable to you. They could be applicable to just about anyone. You may have clarified some of what you said, but you did not retract some of the most unkind statements you've made. That's actually a big one for me. No I'm not a 12 yr old little girl, or even a girl for that matter, but I'm not overly fond of people who look down on others for really any reason at all. Even less so when it's people being looked down on for having less.Rubs me the wrong way I guess, and it's a hot button. I'd have to share a lot more of my rl to make that clearer and explain just why it's such a hot button. I don't think anyone wants to, or needs to, read that though. It doesn't make me whiney to complain when something doesn't work as I'd like it to. I'm allowed to complain. We all are, and we all do it. No one is an exception to that. You complain, I complain, others complain, whether or not the issue is something we can help ourselves with. Even people with high end systems complain when sl isn't working to their ideals. I don't see anythign at all wrong with it. Even if those complaining are just not wanting to fix things and just want to vent. I don't consider it whining. You can't tell me, with any amount of truth, you've never complained about something that others didn't/don't think you should be complaining about. Everyone does it. Now I too have read these forums, pretty thoroughly over the last oh, however long they've been here(and the previous set before this as well). I've read a lot more than I post. I used to be too busy to post to be honest. Now I tend to post when my son is either busy or just doesn't necessarily need me right that moment, on break while working rl, late at night, things like this. I don't often have time to go inworld much at all these days. Part of why I love the forums is that I can keep up to date on some of the goings on. So before you tell me to re-read what you've said, please know I already have, numerous times. I too have seen you post unkind statements that look down on others. I'm not saying this to insult you. I am saying this because you seem to believe everyone else who has already said it, can't possibly be right. I am fairly certain they are, and you just aren't looking at your words from their perspective. We've all done it at one point or another I'm willing to bet-if I were a betting sort of man. So it's something we're all guilty of. Some of the things you and others have said to, and about, others really is just very unkind and judgmental. I'd prefer to believe it's unintentional, but that's my rose colored glasses outlook on things talking. As I said earlier, I prefer seeing and believing in the best of everyone, even if they haven't given me reason to do so. Please go back and read this thread yourself, both your comments and other posters who have made similar ones. Then go back to previous threads, all over the forums, where your posts and others' have been pretty much on par with what was said earlier in this thread. Don't look at it as the person who posted it, look at it as a person who could be offended by it. Look at it as a person who can't, not just won't, but truly can't, upgrade their machine(the reason why is irrelevant). Maybe you'll understand why people think you're being so judgmental. But, maybe not, maybe you won't understand. I couldn't possibly know either way with any amount of certainty. Back to my original thought though...I would not accept help from someone who seems to have an "I am better than you" attitude. Why? Because I'm not supportive of that kind of attitude and in asking for and receiving help, I'd be doing just that. Free pc or not. I know that sounds weird, you might even think it's dumb of me, but it's just how I am. I can't speak for others. Now advice, that I will always take, even if I can't employ it. But actual help? No, I wouldn't. I just wouldn't personally feel right doing so. Not when my pc does, for the most part, do everything I need it to do. Save for a few things, that really in the grand scheme aren't super duper important to me. My experience in sl, even if it's not the best, absolutely does not get in the way of others' experience(s). So it's no skin off my nose, either way. I don't personally see being supportive, rather finding a way to support, both those who do and can have a better performing pc, and those who cannot, as a bad thing. I don't believe it's impossible to implement things that benefit all, without causing the virtual world's growth to come to a screeching halt. This is where we disagree, I think. I could be mistaken on that, it's been a bit difficult to decipher. I don't think growth has to stop in order to make the sl experience better for all(or most) regardless of the machine(s) we are all on. I happen to beleive the best of both worlds, so to speak, can be achieved. Do I know how? Nope, I don't. But that doesn't mean it's impossible. Most things people say are impossible actually are, with the right person behind the wheel. I do think things can be optimized for all. The reasons you get the replies you do is based entirely on the words you put on the screen. Maybe it's not everyone else that's in the wrong. It's possible that both are wrong, to some extent. It's possible people aren't as mean as their statements may suggest sometimes. In fact, that's probably more accurate. That doesn't mean however people are going to agree with continuing to state them in the manner they have been. The more times you make rude, mean or judgmental statements will directly reflect how serious people take your offers of "help". At least that's been my experience. I wouldn't think ill of someone who made one, or even a couple, statements that seem elitist when it's not a regular occurance. When it is, however, at least with one given topic, it's really hard not to. You(general) make it far more difficult for people to get past the rudeness when you put it out there too often. Again, not saying it to be rude, mean, belittle or anything like that. I'm just being honest and explaining my point of view. No one ever said I was always right, including myself(wouldn't want to be anyway). I'm always open to change my opinion, if given a reason to. So far, I don't have much reason to. I also still stand by everything I said earlier. It wasn't just applicable to you, even if my reply was directly after yours or in response to something you've said. It could, and usually is, applicable for more than one person. A lot more people read these forums than post, and can benefit from things said here too. You aren't the only one who made statements that came off as rude or elitist. This isn't the first thread where it's happened. It surely won't be the last. But my opinion on looking down on others, still stands, whether applicable to you personally, or not.

Gadget Portal wrote: Don't get hung up on the details of my story. I don't even have all the details. The discussion has more to do with people that can't see mesh, and whether they should be able to effect the experience of everyone else. No they shouldn't, at least not to the extent that they prevent growth for everyone else. That doesn't however mean they also shouldn't be able to complain. We all complain about things all the time, every single one of us. Things we can change and, mostly, things we cannot. I don't think trying to shut people up and stop them from complaining is really an answer. Which is how the "if you can't see/do it, you shouldn't be here" responses usually sound. More of a "stfu you don't matter" kind of response. Even if that's not how they're meant, it is how they come across sometimes. Counter productive. Who knows maybe someone out there can, or has, a way that can appease both sides. You just never know. Others can continue to grow and move forward, technologically that is. While those who can't move forward for whatever reason(no need to judge the reason of course) can still enjoy the product, in this case sl, the way they always have. It is entirely possible for people to coexist in such a way. At least I believe it is. Even if I don't have the answer. I am willing to bet someone out there does. They just don't likely work for Linden Lab. Frankly the folks that do work at the lab aren't even all that great at making the current conditions as good as possible, much less moving forward. In that right, we all have room to complain, lol.

Gadget Portal wrote: Here's why I act the way I do. A couple good reasons. I won't list the forum troll ones this time around. There is no reason not to have a decent computer these days. For 300 USD, I could build you a computer that'll run SL decently on high settings. For 500, it could run ultra. PC manufacturers have driven their own prices down so much, you could spend 200 for the tower, put in a GPU yourself for 100 more, and still do well. Hell, the prices are so cheap, I'd build and mail you a computer from my spare parts, for free, that could run SL well- except the shipping cost is more than buying the computer new.* Every week, I see complaints on the forum about updates and upgrades. If SL were optimized for those people as requested, we'd lose most of the features that make it interesting and make it look good. Which is the last thing I want. *Edit: The US Post office has those pre-paid boxes. I'm not a charity, but if things are that bad, I'd be happy to spend some time and spend some money on some sort of "help me upgrade" exchange program for SL users in the US. There's a tech guy in my local paper that does something similar for non-commercial PC owners. I dare say you have never lived paycheck to paycheck if you believe $300, even $100 isn't a hefty price for some people. I can name you quite a few reasons why I can't, and won't, upgrade my machine anytime soon. These are personal reasons and like others, not ones I would normally share, but maybe you need an answer that's realistic to understand where I'm coming from. Those reasons?...bills..and tons of them. Yep, I have them. We have medical bills out the wazoo in this family. A family that only consists of my disabled son and myself and has since the day he was born and his mother left him with me in the hospital room. His needs are a priority, not my electronic desires. He comes first, always has and always will. His bills already exceed my paychecks every month and have for a very, very long time. We don't do holiday celebrations, or extra expenses of any sort when we are struggling to cover basic needs. Life has always been that way for us. Someone who has never struggled to cover basic needs wouldn't understand however. Our internet, is free, because he is currently attending school online and an organization covers his internet. We don't have cable, we don't eat out, we don't have credit cards-because I wouldn't be able to pay them off. We live pretty simplistic in nature. I have not ended any month since at least 2 years ago with more than $5 in my wallet. Most months, not even that. I in fact had to leave my rl job in 2005 due to some issues he was going through. I managed making close to what I was making in rl, in sl, with at least just as much work every day but being at home so better able to care for him. From 2005 until early 2012, sl was my whole income. Because getting another job outside of sl was simply not possible. When it became possible again, and my rl bills became high enough to prevent my sl income from even covering 3/4 of them most months leaving us with shut off notices and the like, I changed that. I got another rl job that better matched my monthly spending on basic needs, closed my sl shop, and that's where I sit today. I'd get a second job in rl, or even would have continued my sl one as well, if it were possible, but it's not. I stretch myself thin as it is, and my son still needs me daily. So yes, even $100 or $50 on something I don't absolutely positively NEED, is a huge expense, and one I cannot afford. You don't have to be in the same situation as others to understand WHY they just can't afford something. That money may be a drop in the bucket for you, but it is NOT a drop in the bucket for everyone. It surely isn't for us. It would do you well to employ a bit more empathy and understanding rather than holding onto a seemingly elitist attitude that places yourselve above those who may posess less than you. I would like to assume people aren't as elitist, and don't place themselves on those pedestals intentionally. In fact, I'll continue going on believing that, even if it is ignorant of me. Because it makes me feel much better than believing everyone who says such things like this, actually believes them. I prefer to think the best of people whenever possible. I prefer ot think of the good in humanity instead of seeing them for the words they utter. So I'll go on believing that elitist attitude is merely for show, and not a credible descriptor for the one who decides to share it. It serves my rose colored glasses outlook on life much better. All that said, I can see mesh, at least to some extent, but not very well a lot of times. When I do actually go into sl that is, which isn't nearly as often as it once was. Sl does run on my machine, but it most definitely can't run on high. I can't use all the gizmos, gadgets and settings others can use. But it serves my purpose when I need it to. I have no idea why people think my experience in sl is going to somehow ruin theirs and therefore I should not be allowed to login. How exactly does it harm you that I can't see your mesh sometimes? How is it hurting you? Are the lindens I pay you for items inworld, when I do have them to spend that is, not good enough because my system isn't as high end as yours? Really? Would you stop taking payment from customers simply based on that kind of "your life isn't as good as mine is" attitude? I highly doubt it. I don't know of any merchant in sl that would refuse service to someone based on that alone. So why would others give a rat's toe about it? Why do you care so very much about others being able to see you and your stuff perfectly? All those yous and whatnot are general of course and not geared to anyone in particular, but it is food for thought.

As someone who watched a very dear friend fall victim to someone truly evil and eventually paid the ultimate price, I can see why this would be helpful for many, many people. For reasons very specific to that kind of heartache and what I would personally deem as torture, as well as many, many other reasons. A lot of which would be far less severe than what she went through. However as that same person, I wouldn't want the one responsible for putting my dear friend through that to also have the ability. Why? Because he would simply choose to do it again to another person. In fact, already has. So why would I want him to be able to torment, irritate, cause another person pain and heartache, for about a year or so, and then easily move on to the next victim? He already has no issues doing this. He, and many like him. Something like this would only make it easier. So yes while it would be helpful and even outside of the kind of issues my friend had, it would be beneficial for many people. It would also enable others. It would enable people with less than kind ideas on their minds put those ideas into motion. Griefers would benefit as much as anyone else from an idea like this. It could easily do as much harm as it would good. Is that a reason to entirely dismiss an idea? No. But it is worth considering. Outside of the typical "it will counteract the permissions system" answers you will likely get..so I don't even have to touch on that one. Heck even I can think of ways this would be useful to me. Having changed from an account I opened in 2004, and only just closed this year(yes, after this account was created for a specific challenge on the forums a while back). It would be nice to have been able to transfer my stuff to here when I made that decision. Would have saved me a lot of money. But, I knew going into this account, and by closing that one, I wouldn't be able to do this. Is it ideal? No. But I did know it going in, so I can't claim ignorance. I'm not sure something like this would actually cause more retention, at least not to the point that it would make this ability invaluable anyway. It would cause some retention, yes, but it would likely be negligible in the eyes of the lab. Though most things seem to fit that bill as of late.

Your first mistake here, as you believe others are wrongly assuming you are stupid(when not all posters did, but you'd actually have to read the responses to realize this not just a few of them) is lumping every single response together. Some people may be arrogant and even ignorant, because they chose not to read your initial post, or your follow up posts, but not everyone is. Just as you'd prefer everyone else not assume you're stupid, you should offer the same courtesy. I did not assume anything about you, or your passwords. In fact I don't even care how long you've been on the internet, or even your level of intelligence. What you're asking of LL is simply not possible. They can inform you of THEIR security breaches, and trust me IF it were LL or SL that were breached, they would tell you. They always have. Surprisingly this is one place they don't fail. However the breach was NOT on their servers. It was not on them at all. It had nothing at all to do with them. It was a third party, period. The responsibility for information sits with that third party. Period. There is no "it would be nice if LL would.." because it was NOT on LL, or on SL, whatsoever. It was a third party. That is the ONLY part I do think you're confused about. I only say this because you've once again mentioned sites, such as banks, paypal, etc.. that discuss security updates. You're right, that is a good thing. It's also something LL already does. They DO inform if there is a breach or issue with THEIR servers, THEIR property or THEIR customers that involves any of THEIR property. What they cannot do, is update you on another person's property. In this case, the third party, aka your landlord's servers, and property. They can't possibly KNOW the status, so how can they inform you? They don't own the site. They have nothing to do with the site. It's not their responsibility, their place or even an ability they posess. In fact, they wouldn't have even informed you had they not been informed themselves about the breach. So no, it's not a reasonable request because it's an impossible one. It's a reasonable request to expect third party site owners to keep their customers informed. It's a reasonable request to expect that site owners in general will keep their customers informer. It's not a reasonable request to expect someone else to do it for them. Insulting everyone else's experience or intelligence is no more warranted from you than it is from anyone else. It's actually rather rude to be so presumptious. Regardless of who it is coming from, it's rude. eta: I tend to take language barriers a bit more serious than others I have noticed. I can usually spot them, and I make an extra effort to try my best and understand from all angles. Tot he point I read, read and re-read time and time again. And if I still don't understand, I ask for clarity. However I did not see a language barrier in your intitial post. In your last reply I did see a few statements that might cause confusion because of possible language issues(from both the party reading, and yourself that is). But in reading your "final" response I can see you're quite the rude person. Not only presumptious and rude, but, well, just not nice. You want others to be nice and helpful, but you want the freedom to be a jerk in your responses. It doesn't quite work like that. You can't expect others to be kind and helpful at every turn with responses like that, you just can't. Try as I might, even I can't possibly always be nice and helpful to someone who responds as rudely as you have. I can see why others were a bit more arrogant in their responses. They clearly saw the 'tude in your posts long before I wanted to see it. I suppose now would be the point when I say.... harumpf...good day sir... and good luck catching any sort of flies with your vinegar in the future. I sure hope you never encounter another problem that may actually rely on the aid of others to assist you. Because odds are, you're not going to find that aid with that kind of 'tude.

LL cannot control what third party sites do or do not report to their members. You, or your wife, being one of those members. When something bad happens, like in this case, the responsibility, as you clearly understand, sits with the owner of that site. The fact that the owner of that site, your landlord, did not inform you, speaks volumes about them. In fact, if I were you I would be beyond pissed that they did not inform you. I would be jumping for joy that LL did inform you. Because LL does not have to. And by all rights, they really shouldn't have. But they chose to do what most would like them to do, and informed you about something they knew. They informed you of an issue that had absolutely nothing at all to do with them. If you ask me, that's pretty awesome, and not very common either. But I am sure you understand that part. I would be furious if I were you at your landlord. Not because their site was hacked, because it does happen despite some of the best measures being taken. So I would not necessarily blame them, not that you are of course, for being "hacked". But the responsibility they hold to you, a user of their site, is to inform IMMEDIATELY upon finding out something like this has happened. They did not. That is a huge red flag for me. Pissed doesn't begin to describe. I know others also affected by this same issue. They are seeking new sims as we speak and leaving this "landlord"-I use that term very loosely, regardless of the popularity of said person. Things like this affect more than just their own livelyhood so looking out for their own best interest, imo, also involves looking out for your-their customers'-best interests. But maybe I'm simply partial to people that give a rat's behind about others. Color me weird. As for LL having a thread. I agree it would be nice, in theory, but only in theory. In practice, it would never work. The lab cannot possibly know when any and all sites, or programs, their customers use have been compromised. It's neither resonable, nor possible. I know why you're asking for it, and I understand your line of thinking, but I'm not sure you're thinking about the big picture. How would they know about every single third party site possibly even remotely affiliated with any and all second life resident(s) and/or company(ies)? How would they go about not only knowing about each and every site, but also the current status of each and every site? How do you propose they have a "status" thread when knowing the status of them all isn't even remotely possible? Do you know how many sites are even a tiny bit related to sl and it's residents as well as merchants, bloggers, companies, so on and so forth? Thousands upon thousands of sites exist. Having an updated "status" for each of them would be a full time job for a full time team. It would cost more money than it would be worth and in the end still no way to know for certain they've covered them all. So yes, in theory having each and every site owner post a status would be great, but only in theory. Now if those who own sites would be willing to stand up and say "yo, folks, we got an issue here..here's what's up", when something bad happens...that would be a step in the right direction. But that responsibility would still sit with those site owners, not LL. LL can no more prevent those sites from having issues than you can, as a user. Crap happens, sites get hacked, accounts get compromised. Sometimes it's because of ignorance-I use this term with it's true definition, not to put anyone down. Sometimes you believe you've taken all proper measures and it still happens. You hope nothing bad happens to you as a result, you learn, you change whatever you possibly can, and you move on. Sometimes you blame the one who owned the site, because sometimes it really was their fault. Sometimes, it's not. The only one there to blame is the one truly responsible for the act. Either way, in most instances, people come out no worse for the wear, thankfully. Which is likely what will happen to most affected here. Thankfully the worst most will have to go through is making sure they change their patterns, because many people do have patterns and don't realize it. Also being more aware of everything they do, at least for a little while anyway, until they get more comfy again. That's also what usually happens. Of course security orbs and other such things are not a 100% solution. There is no 100% solution, unless you include staying off the internet completely. I don't think the security orbs comments really have anything at all to do with this, other than a side comment made. No one in sl can possibly make or create a product that is going to protect you 100%. Even a rl bank cannot offer you 100% security that your money will be safe with them. I don't know why anyone would expect anything different in a virtual world, with regards to their virtual goods, or money(or as some see it, their rl investments of rl money in virtual goods). It's just not possible. Things do happen. Sl has always been worldwide. There is no difference in that from it's inception until now. Safe the fact that popularity grows, and decreases, as with anything. It's always been a worldwide virtual world. It's always been just as susceptible to issues like this as any other place, site, company, whatever term(s) you want to use. Sl has never been an exception to the standard rule of..."there will always be people who choose to do bad things, including compromising other people's property in whatever way they choose". No site, company, whatever.. is an exception to that rule. Or maybe I'm just rambling and you really just wanted to vent. In which case, I understand, but I'd be giving that landlord of yours a piece of my mind, for certain. I know others have. They are very sore about this issue. I am helping someone move a few sims worth of rentals to a different company later tonight and well into the next couple of days, because of how angry they are at how this was handled. No one should have found out about it from LL before the landlord informed them. Not when the landlord knew about it before LL did. That is absolutely unacceptable in my book.

Dirtnap Mumfuzz wrote: Thank you for actually posting up the section of the TOS I am referring to, and trying to self-righteously and incredulously misquote it. This is the sort of myopicity I am referring to really. Ignorance is one helluva drug, it would seem. Again, according to the same TOS, KEYWORD spam and TRADEMARK infringement are two different things. Lumping them together doesn't make you more right, just less literate. I cannot be held responsible for your inability to comprehend and/or delineate between the two. I do thank you for performing it publicly though, I couldn't have asked for a better example. Also, since you probably didn't actually read any further than the part you wanted to gety angry about and continue to misrepresent, why don't you go ahead and outline how my understanding of current U.S. trademark and copyright law is completely and totally innacurate. If you can. I read your entire reply. I did not lump trademark and keyword spam together, in fact I didn't even use the word trademark. I posted the relevant information in the guidelines, the portions pertinent to this topic, and also provided a link to the guidelines so anyone unfamiliar can read at their leisure. Not everyone knows where, or what, they are. I did not post my opinion as to why the products were removed, nor my interpretation of the guidelines. I posted the exact reason why this person's products were removed. I know this is the reason why, because the OP said it was, and the lab told the OP it was when the products were removed. Yes you are correct in saying the lab selectively removes things. Not every item gets flagged, or found. So this allows many, thousands even, violations to exist on the mp. That is an area they seriously need to work on when it comes to the marketplace. They rely pretty heavily on residents reporting violations. That said, it still doesn't mean you can,(read:should) use whatever words you want, wherver you want them, because other merchants do it too. You have your opinion and I have mine. Then we have the guidelines which are not vague in the least, right there in print for us. We seem to disagree on what they say, however. I take them at face value based only on the words on the screen. I don't read more into them than what they put before my eyes. If we all just went with our own definitions, or perceived ones, sl would be even more screwed up than it already is. That's why the guidelines are there. Even if I may not always agree with all of their guidelines or TOS, I am glad some are a lot less vague than others. I wish they were all this clear. But, I'll bow out of the conversation. I'm not fond of the rude junk, either, and really not fond of participating in or perpetuating it.

Dirtnap Mumfuzz wrote: Everyone quotes the TOS regarding issues like these, in order to lend their position validity; but none of you seem to be quoting it very accurately. For all I know I also get it wrong, but I also don't seem to inject nearly as much personal opinion into the matter.So I have a little bit of confidence that I am closer to the mark than anyone can appreciate. But I could be wrong about that. I'm snipping what you wrote, because beyond this point I've quoted, the rest of your post is inaccurate and irrelevant , it's also as mean spirited and such as you claim everyone else has been towards the end, and no one needs that quoted. You are incorrect, and you are getting it wrong as far as this topic goes. As I, and others, have already pointed out by providing links to the listing guidelines. Here, try this link again, and this time, read it. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/listing_guidelines Now, scroll your self to roughly 1/4 of the way down the page. There is a subtopic that says SL MARKETPLACE LISTING GUIDELINES Go there. If you want information on branding, keyword spam, and things like this, you will find it all right there in that section. But since, even after posting this already in the thread, some still insist others haven't read the guidlines...I'll post some portions quoted directly.. Under branding guidelines...scroll to "this is not acceptable"-but please do read the rest of the branding guidelines area as well, it is important. "Lists of unrelated brand names cannot be included in a listing or hidden by using white-on-white text, tiny fonts, special HTML code, or other means intended to circumvent the rules. (See also Keyword Spam below.)" This is where the violation occurred here-the branding used, yes even in keywords it's still branding. It does happen quite often, sometimes because people are confused about what is and is not allowed, and sometimes not. Any brand you don't own, is unrelated to your product, period. They even tell you to be wary of using "inspired by" because it lends to unfamiliar territory with the potential to be problematic. Now, let's go to the keyword spam area, since that's the most relevant to this topic.. Scrolling to near the bottom you'll find a section that says "Disallowed Actions" You'll find keyword spam discussed there. The most relevant portion of that guideline, to this topic, would be this part... "Keyword spam is the use of words (such as brand names, item names, or other terms) that have nothing to do with the item listed so that the listing will appear in search results. Keyword spam is not allowed because it clutters the SL Marketplace and makes buying and selling more difficult. In addition:" If you'd read the previous replies at all, you will see your opinion of everyone else isn't all that accurate either. A lot of good information was posted. Yes some people are snide, rude, crass, but that doesn't apply to everyone, or even most people for that matter. Most of the other posters actually posted relevant and accurate information as far as branding is concerned and why it's taboo. I'm not certain why you believe your opinion is the truth when it's nearly the exact opposite of what the guidelines actually say. Not my interpretation of the guidelines, but the actual words presented, at face value. They aren't vague guidelines like so many others we have and so very much of the general sl TOS. Using a brand name anywhere on/with/by/for/in your product(s) you have no legal right to use, or have not been granted rights to use I should say, can get you in hot water both in rl and in sl(as the op now knows). Will it always? No. Not every violation gets caught. Why take the risk though? It's a bit of a stupid one, if you ask me. Even if a merchant doesn't mind their stuff being removed for breaking guidelines, I am pretty sure they would mind having the reputation that might come along with being that person who breaks the guidelines. Then again, maybe they wouldn't. But as a consumer, since I have options, I wouldn't shop with someone who uses brand names, at all, unless they owned them. It wouldn't matter if it was keywords, on the ad, in the description, or anywhere. It's just a no-brainer thing for me, even without the guidelines. I could be all alone out there on that branch but I am guessing, because I actually read the thread in it's entirety, I am not.

Kenbro Utu wrote: I understand all this, perhaps you should address the OP. Sorry, just hit the wrong reply button. It happens. I'm sure the OP can tell who/what is was in reply to.

Maybe this will make it less confusing. If you are a merchant who sells wares, or your services are your wares(such as with photography, blogging, etc..) you cannot advertise those wares. If you are a merchant, or anyone really, who is looking to employ others to work for you, you can advertise. For example..... A creator cannot advertise their creations A photographer, or even blogger cannot advertise that they are available, or to offer their services in any way as it's considered a "product" However.. A creator looking to hire staff for their business, can advertise this(but cannot advertise their store) A photographer or blogger who is looking to hire other photographers, or anyone, to perform duties/work for/with them, can advertise this, but cannot advertise they are available for work themselves. There is a difference between wares and employment. It's a pretty distinct one, that often gets confused because of poor wording. Like the job LL did with that subforum description That said, you should really stop saying "others are doing it too". We know they are, when/if they get reported, they get dealt with. Telling a moderator "well so and so did it, go look" isn't going to garner you any brownie points. That's why they told you to file a ticket...because you seem to take issue with the policy itself. Moderators can't do anything about your dislike for a certain rule, so they'll tell you to take it up with those who can. All they can do is follow the guidelines set before them. While I do believe they could do a much better job at monitoring, they surely can't see/catch it all. That's when residents come in handy. We see something off, we report it. If we don't, they may or may not see it. If you see inappropriate posts, just report them with the little link that says "report inappropriate content". That will flag it so it can be looked at. It's really simple. Giving a moderator a list of such posts may not be as helpful as you think. Others doing it, and getting away with it, doesn't then make it right for you to do so as well. On a personal note i hate when I see/hear people say "others were doing/did it too". It makes me cringe when adults use that excuse.

Passes storm some trail mix, and a flashlight, in case he gets lost. Enjoy your journey to Emo. Please keep all body parts inside the moving vehicle at all times..... Wait...wrong script..

I don't know if anyone sells one, but one could be made pretty easily. Using the follower scripts available on the lsl, perhaps getting some scripting help form those who know how if you do not, you could easily create a "friend".

mischief Goldshark wrote: Over the last few weeks I have seen a few times now avatars coming onto my home sim with the name (???.???) when i try to open their profile, it gives a 404 error. Most of the times i have seen an avatar with this name i usually receive spam from them advertising some store. Also a few times now, non-friends have been able to start conference calls with me, (and no-one in the call is my friend either). It is my understanding that you can open a conference call with people on your friends list. Any idea's what is going on? If you're in a group with someoen they can open the group conference call too. If you're not paying close attention when the thingy pops up, it looks the same as any other notice that a call is coming in. The ??? thing happens a lot, and can happen on any viewer. It just means the account info isn't being sent to the server/your system properly. I've seen it in almost every viewer I've used at one point or another.

She didn't speak down to you at all. In fact, she said it about as nice as anyone could. She gave you the facts. You may not like them, but she in no way, shape, or form, insulted you. I think you might want to take a step back and rethink your reaction. Re-read her post from the perspective of a creator, and you might just understand where she's coming from. Also try reading some of the posts here on the forums for other work people have both requested, and offered. It helps to see what it is you're really asking for, and how this sort of thing usually works. You'll probably better understand why she said some of the things she did. She's spot on, on every point, though. There's not a lick of her talking down to you at all in that entire post. I'm scratching my head trying to see where you got that. I'm quite sure you don't agree with her thoughts, even though most of what she said was not opinion but actual fact. I just don't see how it could have possibly insulted you. If it were me, and it was some years ago, I'd be thankful someone gave me the facts up front, and didn't sugar coat them. Because you could very easily get yourself in a world of trouble. It doesn't matter what others are doing, what's on the grid already, what other merchants have created(it does matter on the whole, it just doesn't matter relevant to your post). As she said, those people are also putting themselves at risk for being in hot water. Many have been dealt with legally. Even more still have not. But that doesn't make it ok. Just like any other aspect of life. One person doing something wrong,a nd not getting in trouble, doesn't make it ok. She linked you to the policies and recommended you read them. I will join her in that recommendation. It's a smart thing to do for ALL residents, not just merchants and creators. I almost replied before she did. My intial reaction wasn't nearly as nice as hers though, so I didn't. I used to do custom work for people. What you're asking for, is a lot. I understand what you're saying and what it is you're asking for. But you do really need to think of it from the perspective of the creator, or rather the person you want to do the work. Even if they are an expert and absolutely love doing the work, that doesn't always make it easy. Content creation can be difficult, even with a perfectly laid out plan before you. If it's going to be paid for work, you can expect it will come at a steep price in most cases. Unless, as she said, someone who does this as a hobby has a desire for a project and is willing to work for much less. I have done that too, worked on projects as a hobbyist, even free at times. I do them with just as much enthusiasm and work, but they won't be done nearly as timely as something I am paid full price for. If that makes sense. The people who will likely respond to your ad, are likely people in the business of content creation. So being able to provide them as much information, even up to and including the kind of budget you're working with, will help a lot. I know you asked people to name their prices. As a creator, again when being commissioned, I prefer the person asking let me know what they've got to work with. It might just be me, I am a softy, but if my prices fall well out of their budget, I can't help but feel bad sometimes. If I know in advance they've only got X amount, I can figure out exactly what it is I can do for them(if anything). And that just covers the financials. That doesn't even cover the time, blood, sweat and tears. Sorry this is a lot longer than I wanted it to be. I just want you to understand why a creator might look at the request and sit here scratching their head wondering if you're off you're rocker. Not because you are off your rocker, but because your ad is pretty ambitious, and also not very specific at the same time. It also hits a nerve on the whole copyright/trademark issues. Many will ignore it based on that alone. Your reaction to being given the facts, will make it doubly difficult to find help. I doubt you care, but I wouldn't help you with any of those projects even if they didn't have a copyright issue. All because you basically threw a verbal tantrum at being told you might be biting off more than you can chew-in the kindest way I've seen anyone say it in a long time on these forums. Most would probably tell you to take a hike, or worse.

I think both parties need to put their big boy/girl panties on and move on. Stop acting so childish. Do you think this sort of thing never happens? People decide for one reason or another that they no longer wish to parter with their neighboring sim owner, if they have one. Most people don't whine and cry about paying some stupid fee to do so. If they want the sim moved, they pay the fee, end of story. If they don't care if the sims continue to share a border and just simply exist next to one another, they don't pay the fee, end of story. Either way, no tantrums needed. Only drama llamas turn it into something it doesn't have to be. Though some people really love being drama llamas, it's rarely ever productive. So, like I said, put your big boy/girl panties on and stop acting like a child. The lab isn't here to babysit you or tend to every wound you get when you decide to get all butthurt over something stupid. This is not griefing, at all. Neighboring sims don't have to coincide at all, they don't even have to be neighborly if they don't want to. They don't have to match, they don't have to be pleasant. All they have to do, is follow the TOS the lab gives them. For your viewing pleasure...because it's more interesting

madam Martian wrote: namssab1nad Piers wrote: Madam, I don't know what world you live in, but your best price is $4.50L per prim per week? Excuse me but that is outragiously high. For half that a person can get an excellent piece of land on a good sim, well designed, and lots of traffic. Best price? who talk about best price? I recomend a good place to put a shop and respond to what Jade is asking for.. QUOTE: The most important thing to me is that the other shops in the area sell quality work. Anyways you can't count prim price like that... (it would be so nice if things were that simple, so I think you are right, we are not in same world) Because If I were to set up a shop on a 'nice land' then I would have to set up the building aswell and if the building was 200 prims, I would then have to pay for 200 prims more, even at a lower price pr prim... I recomend this place because I am saticfied with it, and not because of the prim price (Of which I couldnt really care less about. I didnt even know it was 4.5 before you mentioned it). I dont see anywhere that Jade ask for the price, exept to post it and she would check it out. I do however see that she cares about same issues as I do. traffic, quality .. And that is what they got: the traffic, the quality, the events and whatnot AS I allready wrote... I am not forcing anyone to rent anywhere, but yes I DO very much recomend it, and I do not hollar about what world others are in.. Im in the real and the second... dont know about you. but being polite to others is part of it.. Lis You're the one that touted the prices were not high. They most definitely are, especially for a rental spot. That doesn't discount the land or suggest in any way it's not a wonderful sim. I don't believe the other poster said anything about the sim, either. But those are prices on the high end of things. Actually yes, you can count prim price like that, most people do when looking for a place to rent. Any shopowner that pays absolutely no attention to price at all is not acting wisely. Even if the price isn't really an issue or concern-as in you'd be willing to pay anything- you should at least think about it. It's unwise advice to tell others they shouldn't, or couldn't. It's a point on most business plans, or should be anyway.

My New Year's resolutions are the same every year Make next year better than the last, make service project goals and stick by them, learn one new thing every single day, never wake up on the wrong side of the bed and if I find I have put myself back in bed and try it again, live each and every day as if it may be my last, never regret and last but not least never do anything I may have to apologize for later. All positive, all possible and all practical.