Ishtara Rothschild Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Dogboat Taurog wrote: Ishtara Rothschild wrote: Dogboat Taurog wrote: mesh is the latest mind bogglingly stupid idea which will alienate many with slower pcs. some may say "upgrade your pc" If LL had gone with mesh import rather than prims from the very beginning, people with mid- and low-end PCs would be a lot better off nowadays. Mesh can't possibly be worse than prim hair that consists of hundreds of cut tori or necklaces that are made up of a few hundred tiny sculpties. I'm not very fond of mesh myself, but for different reasons. The one thing you can't hold against mesh is performance. If it's widely used to replace existing prim and sculpt prim content, we will see a much better performance thanks to a greatly reduced polygon count . perfect meshes maybe, but you know thats not going to happen. too many monkeys out there. It takes both a deliberate effort and the mindset of a griefer to come up with a mesh that does the same to a graphics card what a cut, tortured, twisted and hollowed torus prim does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriJin Bade Posted July 19, 2011 Author Share Posted July 19, 2011 Experiment concluded. Thank you all for taking part with your excellent feedback and replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Great recovery. :matte-motes-big-grin: Had this discussion gone the way you wanted would be still call it an experiment? That would be the test...........and there's no way of knowing. It was fun though.:matte-motes-tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ishtara Rothschild wrote: Dogboat Taurog wrote: Ishtara Rothschild wrote: Dogboat Taurog wrote: mesh is the latest mind bogglingly stupid idea which will alienate many with slower pcs. some may say "upgrade your pc" If LL had gone with mesh import rather than prims from the very beginning, people with mid- and low-end PCs would be a lot better off nowadays. Mesh can't possibly be worse than prim hair that consists of hundreds of cut tori or necklaces that are made up of a few hundred tiny sculpties. I'm not very fond of mesh myself, but for different reasons. The one thing you can't hold against mesh is performance. If it's widely used to replace existing prim and sculpt prim content, we will see a much better performance thanks to a greatly reduced polygon count . perfect meshes maybe, but you know thats not going to happen. too many monkeys out there. It takes both a deliberate effort and the mindset of a griefer to come up with a mesh that does the same to a graphics card what a cut, tortured, twisted and hollowed torus prim does we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Medhue Simoni wrote: Actually, I seriously doubt that you are going to see alot of inefficient meshes. Considering the algorythms that LL is currently using, if you don't know what you are doing, your total prims will be too high to even sell. With rigged meshes, you kind of have to understand a lot to be able to rig a mesh properly. Yeah, there is a whole area of none rigged worn meshes, but, in most cases, those mesh are replacing what is normally hundreds of prims or sculpts. As far as mesh rezzed object, you won't see many. The total prims gets rediculous if your mesh is over 2 meters in size. To even be able to make a house out of mesh and have a low enough prim total, you really have to know what you are doing. Many of the best mesh makers on the beta grid are barely getting their total prims within a reasonable range. i heard mesh is going to be more expensive to upload as well..like 150$L an upload or something like that..if thats the truth then thats gonna be crazy expensive for some builds.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasmine Digital Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 The Marketplace killed my sales. I used to have three sims but had to forfeit two of them because the marketplace has created a flood of freebies. Why pay for something if there are loads of freebies available at the click of a button? Why would anyone pay to keep up a sim when their goods are not selling and traffic has ceased? Marketplace is the cause of SL 's demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: Sounds like a buyers market to me. You'd think so, but one reason so much of it is for sale is that many sellers still refuse to cut prices. They'd rather sit on a lot and -pay- US$10 in tier than sell it for US$5. Look all over mainland and you can see insanely high prices on about half the decent lots, and on most of the good ones. Couple this with a lot of very poor quality cut choices - odd shapes or too big or too small or with donuts or cutting off and keeping a micro next to the road or water and selling only the rest to a sucker... Despite half of SL being up for sale, buyers still have trouble getting land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ishtara Rothschild wrote: This also highlights one of the major flaws in LL's virtual world model. LL could easily repurpose the unused server capacities if it wasn't for their virtual continent approach. Instead of forcing people who can't afford an entire sim into crowded neighborhoods ,and having idle servers host empty plots in between the fragmented occupied spaces, LL should offer differently sized islands rather than parcels. That cuts down server resources in more than one way. If each parcel was a tiny island surrounded by empty waterspace -- inaccessible waterspace of course, nothing but a scenic backdrop -- nobody would have to render the builds and avatars on adjacent parcels and even in adjacent sims. That means faster rendering and more fps on the client end and less network traffic for LL. I'm pretty sure this would also boost the premium account and land sales. If they did that, they'd lose me almost instantly as a paying customer. I've underlined the most horrible part of the nightmare. You've basically just described what for me would be a nightmare scenario. And I suspect about half of mainland is in agreement with me on that. They'd lose all of you folks if they shifted to mainland only, and they'd lose us if they shifted to estate only. SL lives by diversity, not cookie cutter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I really don't think it's been established that half the land in SL is for sale. The grid survey site I linked before doesn't support any such claim. I've been reading these doomsday predictions for 5 years and every single one of them have been proven to be be false. Someone's unhappy for whatever reason they come to the forums and put out "facts" that are unprovable and, in almost every case, false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: I really don't think it's been established that half the land in SL is for sale. The grid survey site I linked before doesn't support any such claim. Ok not half then. Just rephase my statement to 'Despite so much of SL being up for sale, buyers still have trouble getting land.' The exact amount wasn't my point anyway. Sellers with unrealistic expectations was. If your lot doesn't sell in 1 week, it might be high priced. In 2 weeks it is high priced. If you end up going a full tier cycle with it unsold - its unrealisticly priced, AND you've just lost more money on it. People don't price based on what the market will pay. They price based on arbitrary assumptions, wait they paid long ago, or looking around at that lot across the sim that's been for sale for the last 12 months... well, there's a reason that guy's still for sale despite sitting there for 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I can agree with that. It depends on are they really interested in selling. Many will sell if the "price is right" otherwise, they'll sit back and bitch about "losing money". It's comical and it's been going on for a very long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayalily Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 They could give some to me. :smileytongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peggy Paperdoll Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I often wonder why people abandon their land instead of finding some premium resident and selling it for $L0. That's what I would do if I couldn't sell my land. I mean what are you loosing? Give away free to LL or give it someone who would use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Peggy Paperdoll wrote: I often wonder why people abandon their land instead of finding some premium resident and selling it for $L0. That's what I would do if I couldn't sell my land. I mean what are you loosing? Give away free to LL or give it someone who would use it. 2 years ago my business partner had 12 sims, she sold a few but couldnt even sell some for the transfer fees, hence half were abandoned. land wasnt wanted then and its worse now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikita Jefferson Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I have nt read all the post and i'm sure somone has probably mentioned this but ,who needs land with the marketplace,who needs a shop with the marketplace. I think there is a huge amount of people that have and are giving up paying tier when they can sell on the marketplace for free. I looked on there yesterday just for fun,searched skins to see how many pages would come up,there was 5909 pages I searched dresses,there were 30,000 pages,so its obvious thats where everyone wants to sell and not need land I am one of those who will keep my shop on SL although the marketplace has killed SL in world shopping. Can't blame LL, its the residents who all flocked there,LL loves it cos just like a government they tax every sale which they can t do inworld For LL secondlife is all about making money, Which of course is their right,they own the thing and can do anything they like with it. But SL is a 3d world with shops and lovely creations everywhere,but people complain how tedious it is to shop inworld ,waiting for things to rez so thats why they shop on the marketplace,maybe that is so,but that is part of the 3d world experience I for one will not sell on the marketplace,the way is see it,its worse than selling in world,i sell skins,dresses etc,my dresses will be somewhere in 30,000 pages,who searches through that many pages,thats just as bad as inworld search, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Actually if commercial and event land all were to dry up because of marketplace and the lack of a need for shops... - and thus by proxy the lack of anything that can support event locations... The revenue stream for LLs would dry up fast. If people had nowhere to go, they'd stop buying things to wear or use when they go... nowhere. LLs makes a lot of $$$ off of land tier, even if we assumed it was less than the trivially tiny fee they charge from marketplace - the loss of it will seriously hurt them. Its in their interests to keep people paying tier. I just think they've got anyone on staff with enough vision and guts to make the call about how to get people away from the web-based commerce and back inworld and buying up tier. It would take making land more attractive for both merchants and residents than it is now, and making Marketplace -less- attractive. - that has to be in a broad sense. Both financial and user-experience wise. You'd need lower tier, less lag, anti-blight mainland covenants, higher fees for marketplace -shoppers-, restrictions on what can be bought on marketplace, forcing marketplace to be coupled to land (either it only delivers items that are rezzed inworld, or it just gives the buyer a SLURL to a location to go buy the item), and so on. - Some of these moves would be very unpopular, so they'd need a really good carrot to go along with the stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximillon Lefavre Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 TriJin Bade wrote: Did some quick stats today and this it what I found: Regions in Second Life: As at 18 Jul 2011 Total number of regions: 31218 Full regions marked for sale: 7046 Homesteads marked for sale: 1301 Mainland regions for sale: 6502 Auctioned regions: 36 Therefore, out of 31218 regions, 14885 are for sale. That's about HALF of Second Life. This is ignoring all the individual small parcels for sale on regions. Eye opening, isn't it ! Where did you come up with these numbers? I just did a search of the Land Sales for region size 65536 which is full region and came up with only 5 mainland, 324 estates that show being for sale. So please do tell us how you came up with your numbers and data as proof to backup your claims that half of SL is for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Boyle Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Jasmine Digital wrote: The Marketplace killed my sales. I used to have three sims but had to forfeit two of them because the marketplace has created a flood of freebies. Why pay for something if there are loads of freebies available at the click of a button? Why would anyone pay to keep up a sim when their goods are not selling and traffic has ceased? Marketplace is the cause of SL 's demise. Why pay for it? Because it's better. I am really tired of merchants complaining about freebies killing their sales. Make better stuff than the free stuff, and I will buy it. If you can't or won't make something better, you don't deserve to stay in business. I buy thousands of lindens worth of merchandise, primarily clothes, a month because it's high quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtara Rothschild Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 What I mean is that a 1024 sqm plot should look exactly like a private estate, but only 1024 sqm in size. Those who want accessible waterspace could lower their land, just like estate owners currently can. But it's always good to have options. Perhaps LL should give people the choice between being able to see their neighborhood and replacing everything outside of their parcel with ocean or forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtara Rothschild Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I mostly buy things on the Marketplace if I'm searching for something specific, but I also like visiting the inworld shops of my favorite designers to check for new items. An inworld shop gives the owner a lot more options than a Marketplace presence. For example, they can set up a corner with new releases, another corner with price-reduced special offers, and so on. It's also easier to group items by product type; one wall for dresses, one for shoes, another wall for hairstyles and so on. The Marketplace lists items in a rather chaotic order. But the main advantage of inworld shops is that people can go shopping with friends. It's fun to try out demos and ask friends for their opinion. That's the one thing that the Marketplace will never be able to offer, no matter how much LL allows us to customize our MP presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venus Petrov Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I guess I am old fashioned when it comes to SL shopping. I love going to the shops, seeing the builds and the layouts and viewing the items up close. I may go to Marketplace to search for something and then go to the inworld shop to see it. If the Marketplace seller has no inworld 'presence', I may not purchase the item. Marketplace is good for gifting (when the item is delivered). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 TriJin Bade wrote: Experiment concluded. Thank you all for taking part with your excellent feedback and replies. So, did they lower the price for you or not? Thread award goes to Ciaran for saving subsequent posters from further embarrassment. Most of them, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Ishtara Rothschild wrote: What I mean is that a 1024 sqm plot should look exactly like a private estate, but only 1024 sqm in size. Those who want accessible waterspace could lower their land, just like estate owners currently can. But it's always good to have options. Perhaps LL should give people the choice between being able to see their neighborhood and replacing everything outside of their parcel with ocean or forest. And what I mean is that that would be a nightmare worth killing off the whole point of mainland... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Hexem Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I gotta agree with Pussycat. If there were suddenly no more interconnected sims and/or mainland, the hundreds of thousands of L$ I've spent on vehicles would be absolutely wasted. I'd be pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Gadget Portal wrote: I gotta agree with Pussycat. If there were suddenly no more interconnected sims and/or mainland, the hundreds of thousands of L$ I've spent on vehicles would be absolutely wasted. I'd be pissed. hundreds of thousands???? ru serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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