Wearing & Decorating With PBR Content

[WeFlossDaily]

@Scylla Rhiadra So, fallback textures would actually be a pain in the butt for creators to make. I understand now. Thank you for taking the time to explain it.

 

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, WeFlossDaily said:

@Scylla Rhiadra So, fallback textures would actually be a pain in the butt for creators to make. I understand now. Thank you for taking the time to explain it.

 

 

Depending on the complexity of the maps, yes. Although, again, I can't speak to the process in Substance Maker, which as @Dragon Mommy noted, is probably somewhat automated.

The other issue, of course, is that the creator needs to upload two separate sets of maps.

I don't blame creators who don't want to create fall-back materials. I totally get it.

But I treasure and applaud those who do.

[AmeliaJ08]

Sounds pretty selfish but...I'm here for me, I don't really care if someone couldn't see something I'm wearing. I doubt they'd really care that much either, they're here for themselves too and I doubt my clothes or jewelry being grey matters much to that.

[WeFlossDaily]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Depending on the complexity of the maps, yes. Although, again, I can't speak to the process in Substance Maker, which as @Dragon Mommy noted, is probably somewhat automated.

The other issue, of course, is that the creator needs to upload two separate sets of maps.

I don't blame creators who don't want to create fall-back materials. I totally get it.

But I treasure and applaud those who do.

This is informative. Both of you explained it in good detail.

Creators should do whatever they want for the reasons they decide.

I don't, either. I'm mostly just annoyed with the ones who want LL to remove fallback textures from stuff that already exists.

I feel the same way about the creators who still rig for Lara v5.3.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

'm mostly just annoyed with the ones who want LL to remove fallback textures from stuff that already exists.

I don't think anyone has suggested something be removed.from.existing content.  That would be impossible.anyway.

[WeFlossDaily]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

I don't think anyone has suggested something be removed.from.existing content.  That would be impossible.anyway.

There are ppl who want LL to replace the terrain textures with PBR-only textures.

This is high provocative from the standpoint of a PBR separatist.

But at the same time, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I hope that would be impossible, though.

[Rowan Amore]

4 minutes ago, WeFlossDaily said:

There are ppl who want LL to replace the terrain textures with PBR-only textures.

This is high provocative from the standpoint of a PBR separatist.

But at the same time, it wouldn't be the end of the world.

I hope that would be impossible, though.

I'm not sure ground textures COULD have a fallback.  Someone more knowledgeable could answer that.  LL is the one saying they will be updating mainland textures to.PBR at some future date.  They've been in need of updating for years either way, PBR or not.

ETA...

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PBR_Terrain#:~:text=PBR Terrain is a feature which allows applying,non-PBR fallback. Older viewers will see grey terrain.

Unlike PBR materials on prims, PBR terrain does not provide a non-PBR fallback. Older viewers will see grey terrain.

 

Edited Saturday at 08:24 PM by Rowan Amore

[WeFlossDaily]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'm not sure ground textures COULD have a fallback.  Someone more knowledgeable could answer that.  LL is the one saying they will be updating mainland textures to.PBR at some future date.  They've been in need of updating for years either way, PBR or not.

I agree the ground textures aren't great and could use an update.

I just worry about what such an update will entail.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

15 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Sounds pretty selfish but...I'm here for me, I don't really care if someone couldn't see something I'm wearing. I doubt they'd really care that much either, they're here for themselves too and I doubt my clothes or jewelry being grey matters much to that.

I don't think that's at all "selfish." It just speaks to the way you use SL. It's as valid an approach as any other.

My own SL is very social, and those social interactions are often built around communities, so my approach is different. But YMMV as they say, and that's cool.

[Ceka Cianci]

I don't understand PBR jeans. 0o

[Arielle Popstar]

19 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'm not sure ground textures COULD have a fallback.  Someone more knowledgeable could answer that.  LL is the one saying they will be updating mainland textures to.PBR at some future date.  They've been in need of updating for years either way, PBR or not.

ETA...

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/PBR_Terrain#:~:text=PBR Terrain is a feature which allows applying,non-PBR fallback. Older viewers will see grey terrain.

Unlike PBR materials on prims, PBR terrain does not provide a non-PBR fallback. Older viewers will see grey terrain.

 

I think a particular viewer could use a default ground texture in place of the one called for but that might not be a great alternative in some respects.

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

2 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

It's not an event dedicated to PBR....it's just a typical event and I am attending a public even for the first time in a PBR-only outfit.

Sorry, my misreading. I thought you were talking about attending this.

https://www.seraphimsl.com/2024/09/10/introducing-pbr-its-a-materials-thing-event/

no worries...and thanks for reminding me about this event....shoooooooop!

[Luna Bliss]

2 hours ago, WeFlossDaily said:

5 hours ago, Luna Bliss said:

I imagine I'll be doing some educating about various viewers today.

You use various viewers?

No I would just inform them of any options, whether those viewers would be pre-PBR or PBR ones..

[Scylla Rhiadra]

34 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I don't understand PBR jeans. 0o

Neither really do I. I suppose a really skilled creator might be able to leverage PBR to good effect for simple textiles such as denim, but for non-shiny or reflective objects and surfaces, I really doubt there is a lot of difference between PBR and BP. Or at least not one that is easily detectable.

[Luna Bliss]

Heads up.....a "lecture" comment is on it's way.....lol

I was having a bit of trouble with Voice in the newest Firestorm viewer....so do be careful if you decide to get it and have a voice event coming up (as I do tomorrow!!).

[WeFlossDaily]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

No I would just inform them of any options, whether those viewers would be pre-PBR or PBR ones..

I see.

[Ceka Cianci]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Neither really do I. I suppose a really skilled creator might be able to leverage PBR to good effect for simple textiles such as denim, but for non-shiny or reflective objects and surfaces, I really doubt there is a lot of difference between PBR and BP. Or at least not one that is easily detectable.

I bought a pair and didn't realize they were PRB jeans until after..

I got back to my house and put them on and was like, why are these so dang shiny.. Then looked and seen they were PBR jeans.. lol

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I bought a pair and didn't realize they were PRB jeans until after..

I got back to my house and put them on and was like, why are these so dang shiny.. Then looked and seen they were PBR jeans.. lol

 

Yeah. We are going to go through a phase of some creators misusing PBR because they don't really understand it, or are soooooo excited by shiny reflectivity that they overdo it just cuz.

We'll get it right eventually.

[Ceka Cianci]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Yeah. We are going to go through a phase of some creators misusing PBR because they don't really understand it, or are soooooo excited by shiny reflectivity that they overdo it just cuz.

We'll get it right eventually.

It's my fault for not reading the whole add.. It has PBR in big letters right over the add..

When it comes to nice fitting jeans, I get tunnel vision.. hehehe

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 hour ago, WeFlossDaily said:

I feel the same way about the creators who still rig for Lara v5.3.

I'm thankful some do. I'd lose so much avatar-critical mod support (entire body parts) if I had to switch to X anytime soon.

That reminds me - speaking of body parts. Does the whole PBR thing mean we could possibly see PBR body mods and addon parts soon? 👀

*Android-Aya intensifies*

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

It's my fault for not reading the whole add.. It has PBR in big letters right over the add..

When it comes to nice fitting jeans, I get tunnel vision.. hehehe

But that's the thing -- PBR doesn't need to be shiny! And there shouldn't be an expectation that it will be. It just does "shiny" better than BP materials.

If creators are making something extra shiny and reflective merely because they're using PBR, they're doing it wrong.

[Ceka Cianci]

17 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

But that's the thing -- PBR doesn't need to be shiny! And there shouldn't be an expectation that it will be. It just does "shiny" better than BP materials.

If creators are making something extra shiny and reflective merely because they're using PBR, they're doing it wrong.

Ya, I thought it was about adding depth to textures more than anything..

At least that was my impression anyways.

[Stephanie Misfit]

6 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

I'm not shopping right now, but if I do return to that, I won't be buying any PBR-enabled clothing unless we get stable lighting environments so the clothing looks consistently good in all locations/conditions (like everywhere else I've seen PBR being used). If that doesn't happen and we're still dealing with a mish mash of EEPs that change with every new location and alter how things appear (not in the right way), I'll continue saving money, I suppose.

Every black PBR outfit I have bought looks blue in most Windlights. If I change the environment to make the outfit look black, everyone else will probably see it as blue anyway.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Every black PBR outfit I have bought looks blue in most Windlights. If I change the environment to make the outfit look black, everyone else will probably see it as blue anyway.

Aaaack. That would drive me bonkerrrrrrrs!

I have seen some photos like that on the forum. Hopefully, that's not something we'll be stuck with down the road.

[steeljane42]

1 hour ago, Stephanie Misfit said:

Every black PBR outfit I have bought looks blue in most Windlights. If I change the environment to make the outfit look black, everyone else will probably see it as blue anyway.

That's nothing new about old windlights and newer EEs, though. The "blue sky reflection" part might be new and it'll take some time for people to adjust their EEs, because LL didn't bother to put any updated environments into PBR viewer aside of new midday, but the distorted colors on various popular environments, including so popular CalWL, has been a thing for many years.

Even going with most simple example of "black dress" that might have been perfectly fine on those super bright presets would be just pitch black with zero details visible on any dark EE/Windlight.

Things also did look completely different pre-PBR depending on if someone had ALM on or off, shadows, and some other settings in the past, like basic shaders.

If you'll really start caring about everyone, no matter what potato PC they have (and now also on their phones/tablets making it even "better") will see you "right",  then the only safe option might be reverting to the "classic" avatar with textured clothing.

Edited yesterday at 02:54 AM by steeljane42