Is Lindenlab choosing a doomed path for SL ? Tell us if the EEP and PBR introduction changed the way you play SL

[Love Zhaoying]

36 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

41 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

Viewers are likely being more conservative than they need to be in order to compensate for factors like other processes you are running, which many end users don't understand will hinder the viewer's performance.

Expand  

Sure, the users are stupid. Yay!

Apparently so!

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Omegaslayer said:

right ok to all the people bashing people getting annoyed about PBR lets put it into perspective with my experience, when i updated to mesh sl ran the same as before

Of course it did...

I remember people complaining how much slower mesh viewers were than pre-mesh viewers. Eventually, mesh viewers became faster than pre-mesh viewers but it took quite some time.

[Omegaslayer]

1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Of course it did...

I remember people complaining how much slower mesh viewers were than pre-mesh viewers. Eventually, mesh viewers became faster than pre-mesh viewers but it took quite some time.

i really didn't notice the change, yes ok there was a small dip but its not what pbr is doing, i should not be getting 8 fps on an empty sim that usually i can get 40 fps and climbing. So likening every other update to second life as the same as pbr doesn't work because the old updates were updated to there current technology, pbr is a whole new viewer this isn't just another update it's changing how it works. 

[Vivienne Schell]

2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Of course it did...

I remember people complaining how much slower mesh viewers were than pre-mesh viewers. Eventually, mesh viewers became faster than pre-mesh viewers but it took quite some time.

Then the Lab should speed up instead of slowing down the public.

[Theresa Tennyson]

Just now, Vivienne Schell said:

Then the Lab should speed up instead of slowing down the public.

So, there should never have been mesh at all?

[Love Zhaoying]

Interesting how this became a trolling thread! 

[Omegaslayer]

1 minute ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Then the Lab should speed up instead of slowing down the public.

problem is this is a whole new viewer, this isn't an update to second life's normal technology this is in essence a new viewer with a few old parts tacked on. Second life never ran on pbr before it had it's own way with materials etc. They are trying to make it better but in doing that has made it slower for a lot of people when it was supposed to make it run better and faster. 

[Paul Hexem]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Interesting how this became a trolling thread! 

Aren't they all?

[Omegaslayer]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Interesting how this became a trolling thread! 

it really has, all i came here to do was to share my problems and find a fix, apparently it's a lets bash all the people having problems feed instead of actually offering solutions to the fact for some of us it feels like sl is getting worse.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Paul Hexem said:

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Interesting how this became a trolling thread! 

Aren't they all?

...

[Paul Hexem]

Just now, Omegaslayer said:

it really has, all i came here to do was to share my problems and find a fix, apparently it's a lets bash all the people having problems feed instead of actually offering solutions to the fact for some of us it feels like sl is getting worse.

Solutions, tips, advice, and help have been offered.

I've said it before and I'll say it again in light of this- people don't want help, they want to complain.

[BriannaLovey]

1 minute ago, Omegaslayer said:

it really has, all i came here to do was to share my problems and find a fix, apparently it's a lets bash all the people having problems feed instead of actually offering solutions to the fact for some of us it feels like sl is getting worse.

Contact me in world if you need help. I made a group for people in our situation to share our knowledge that you can join.

[Blaise Glendevon]

48 minutes ago, Vivienne Schell said:

Sure, the users are stupid. Yay!

Oh, phooey. We've gotten to the bad faith reading of innocent comments portion of the thread before I could even jump in.

[BriannaLovey]

15 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Of course it did...

I remember people complaining how much slower mesh viewers were than pre-mesh viewers. Eventually, mesh viewers became faster than pre-mesh viewers but it took quite some time.

With PBR, it is likely going to require the backend to be switched from OpenGL to Vulkan in order to come close to the speed of forward rendering (ALM disabled.)

[AmeliaJ08]

51 minutes ago, Dorientje Woller said:

No no no, the last 2 RTX versions of nVidia aka RTX 3000 & RTX 4000 series are known as power hogs, aka they need a nuclear plant to be powered. 

3060 was 170W, 3070 was 220W. I mean it's high but it's not exactly crazy for mid-range GPUs.

4060/4070 are more efficient, 115W for the 4060 while being a little bit faster than the 3060 is probably the best example. Tinier transistors, lower voltages, lower power. The 4060Ti is 160W, 4070 200W.

 

 

 

Edited June 24 by AmeliaJ08

[BilliJo Aldrin]

13 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Solutions, tips, advice, and help have been offered.

I've said it before and I'll say it again in light of this- people don't want help, they want to complain.

I personally don’t want help, I know what the problem is, I just want to complain😂

[Coffee Pancake]

3 hours ago, MadameGloom Ravenwood said:

An old saying comes to mind, "Just because you can doesn't mean you should"

I have a high end PC, but I would not want to max it out and I am not ignorant!

This is a nonsense.

If you bought the fancy PC silicon. use it. use it all. use to to it's engineered capacity.

You can't over use it. You can only attempt to use it beyond it's design specifications, and your mileage may vary.

If you're unable to use it to it's design specifications, you should seek a warranty return.

[Carolyn Zapedzki]

8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This is a nonsense.

If you bought the fancy PC silicon. use it. use it all. use to to it's engineered capacity.

You can't over use it. You can only attempt to use it beyond it's design specifications, and your mileage may vary.

If you're unable to use it to it's design specifications, you should seek a warranty return.

So a difference of opinion is nonsense? Ah ok then. Say no more.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

20 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Solutions, tips, advice, and help have been offered.

I've said it before and I'll say it again in light of this- people don't want help, they want to complain.

There is a discernible lack of empathy from some of those responding to complaints here, and, equally, a little too much rage posting from some who are unhappy.

The problems that this update are causing for some are real. And telling someone who is using an 8 year old laptop that was working just fine until now that they should just man up and buy a new one, while a not unrealistic response, is a bit tone deaf given that someone who is using an 8 year old laptop very likely can't afford a new one. That's a simple reality of some people's RL, and it's pretty insensitive not to take it into account.

Equally, some of the tech talk here about processors and heat and so forth is going to go wooooooosh over a lot of people's heads -- as it does over mine, frankly.

PBR isn't going to go away. And yes, it's unrealistic to expect that computers, especially cheap ones, will not become obsolescent eventually. But, as Coffee has noted, we've got people here talking (I hope facetiously) about literally giving blood to get together enough money to upgrade. That maybe should be a bit of an indication of the underlying issues?

Similarly, simply raging about how arrogant LL is being is pointless. There are LOTS of legitimate reasons to criticize how this has been handled, but ultimately the platform has to move forward or it dies. Some are NOT listening to tips -- and for some, the tips might be unrealistic (I'm sorry, but not in a million years am I ever going to replace my GPU on my own).

Maybe a little less yelling from both sides would be good. Whatever your feelings about those who are having issues now, it is NOT helpful to SL if we see a large scale exodus of people who can't grapple with performance or graphics issues. It's in everyone's best interest, for the good of SL, to be a bit patient. Just as it's in everyone's interests, even if you're on a Walmart special, to see the platform upgrade in the interest of future viability and longevity.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

3 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

There is a discernible lack of empathy from some of those responding to complaints here, and, equally, a little too much rage posting from some who are unhappy.

The problems that this update are causing for some are real. And telling someone who is using an 8 year old laptop that was working just fine until now that they should just man up and buy a new one, while a not unrealistic response, is a bit tone deaf given that someone who is using an 8 year old laptop very likely can't afford a new one. That's a simple reality of some people's RL, and it's pretty insensitive not to take it into account.

Equally, some of the tech talk here about processors and heat and so forth is going to go wooooooosh over a lot of people's heads -- as it does over mine, frankly.

PBR isn't going to go away. And yes, it's unrealistic to expect that computers, especially cheap ones, will not become obsolescent eventually. But, as Coffee has noted, we've got people here talking (I hope facetiously) about literally giving blood to get together enough money to upgrade. That maybe should be a bit of an indication of the underlying issues?

Similarly, simply raging about how arrogant LL is being is pointless. There are LOTS of legitimate reasons to criticize how this has been handled, but ultimately the platform has to move forward or it dies. Some are NOT listening to tips -- and for some, the tips might be unrealistic (I'm sorry, but not in a million years am I ever going to replace my GPU on my own).

Maybe a little less yelling from both sides would be good. Whatever your feelings about those who are having issues now, it is NOT helpful to SL if we see a large scale exodus of people who can't grapple with performance or graphics issues. It's in everyone's best interest, for the good of SL, to be a bit patient. Just as it's in everyone's interests, even if you're on a Walmart special, to see the platform upgrade in the interest of future viability and longevity.

Lets face it SL is the worst running “game” in existence. perhaps LL shouldn’t be trying to compete with games where everything is optimized and preloaded, because it will never run as well as those others do.

SL: come for the shiny, leave for the lag

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

There is a discernible lack of empathy from some of those responding to complaints here, and, equally, a little too much rage posting from some who are unhappy.

So, normal!

Except some of those posting may not know it, if they do not post on the Forums regularly.

It may just SEEM like a "troll thread" for that reason.  A similar overall "flavor" to the thread, with different "players" than usual.

I suppose more empathy is in order.  Although, it is a challenge to be empathetic with those who have higher-end PC's and still manage to complain. (It could be "just me" who feels that way.)

Edited June 24 by Love Zhaoying

[Love Zhaoying]

It starts to seem a lot like "viewer wars" after awhile.  (Those threads aren't actually allowed.)

And by that I mean, "Mine works fine", "but mine stinks", "it's your hardware", "no, you're dumb", etc.  Just a bunch of noisy arguing.

I think @Scylla Rhiadra nailed it pretty well!

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Lets face it SL is the worst running “game” in existence. perhaps LL shouldn’t be trying to compete with games where everything is optimized and preloaded, because it will never run as well as those others do.

No, they shouldn't, and I don't think they do. But the theory behind this is that bringing SL a bit more up-to-date with the state of tech will make content creation easier, future updates and upgrades more possible, etc. Whether or not this update does that, I'm not qualified to say.

4 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

SL: come for the shiny, leave for the lag

Yeah, except I don't think people come for the shiny (although it's possible that some who try it out leave because they are unhappy with the look). Anyone arguing that the introduction of PBR is going to assist in bringing new people in are misunderstanding the appeal and point of the platform.

And anyone arguing that this update, at least as it's currently being implemented, is helping with retention isn't paying attention to what's being said here or in-world.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Although, it is a challenge to be empathetic with those who have higher-end PC's and still manage to complain.

Yeah. I'm having a hard time with that too.

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Anyone arguing that the introduction of PBR is going to assist in bringing new people in are misunderstanding the appeal and point of the platform.

I can see how PBR is merely one step, in a series of steps, to improve the overall quality of Second Life in such a way that users have a more "modern gaming" experience.  From that point of view, it may not "bring new people in", but it may help convince people to stay a little awhile on their first exposure - because of the "shiny".

Just an opinion, as with so many others expressed here by so many others.

Edited June 24 by Love Zhaoying
added missing "series of" steps