Firestorm PBR Release Is Out

[Codex Alpha]

27 minutes ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

I fail to understand what ROI has to do with this, but otherwise valid points.  I think we can all agree that the introduction of PBR has been anything but smooth. I welcome SL trying to take a step into modern day, but it's pretty d*mned chaotic right now. 

ROI = return on investment. That investment could be your energy, your participation, your premium membership, your time creating things, or investing $$$ to upgrade your computer.

30 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

If a computer run Sansar well then it'll run most likely run SL with PBR just fine, the problem isn't the computer if that is the case. The problem is the settings or something software related.

So we agree, even though you posted like you were in disagreement lol.

[Jaylinbridges]

I use this little Core Temp 1.18.1 monitor real-time to watch CPU core temp, %Load, and RAM usage.  The basic indicators sit in my bottom Win10 taskbar.   With FS PBR viewer, and shadows on, and all the other new features turned off (sorry I don't need any of them) I can get my CPU to hit 95-100% load if I spin the cam around a mesh and texture heavy parcel (my home).  Stop moving cam and CPU load drops to 25 -75% load.   Not going into details, just suggesting this simple real-time monitor that uses no screen space and starts when Win10/11 is loaded.

CPU Temp, %RAM used, and CPU %Load numbers resp.  (X1 is the EVGA graphics card monitor icon.)

https://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

 

Edited July 7 by Jaylinbridges

[HeathcliffMontague]

37 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

ROI = return on investment. That investment could be your energy, your participation, your premium membership, your time creating things, or investing $$$ to upgrade your computer.

I know what ROI is. So far I've earned maybe 6000 - 8000 L in SL, 3000 of those were for coming in second in a race plus a free bike, so it's a net loss . I'm not in SL to make money, I'm in SL to be in SL and have nice experience. Athough going from a power hungry desktop to a laptop (for RL reasons I won't go into here) has probably saved me some RL cash  in electricity bills 

[Aethelwine]

6 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

System information? Help > About Firestorm

 

I am away from my computer for a few days so unable to provide that now. But it is a bit beside the point. I can run the new Firestorm with decent frame rates, I have not noticed the fans whirring loudly. Playing with settings might help when I did struggle at a busy event, but I was happy enough just turning things down to medium, I could probably tune some settings up to maintain performance and maximise what I can see, but just working consistently is what I really need. My computer is perfectly capable of running a PBR viewer. 

Most of what I and my circle of friends do is sailing, we set out on a route for an hour or two and don't want any crashes. On the old viewer I rarely have a problem. With the new one I get a crash mid region unrelated to a poor crossing about once an hour. Friends report the same and I witness it as I see them going offline. Some get the bugsplat screens to report back to Firestorm the causes, something not seen before for years. I think they have all gone back to the previous release at least for sailing.

Firestorm's webpage tells us to expect bugs, so no real surprises people are experiencing them. But until they make their fixes the viewer is not much use to me and the way I use it. I have both installed so I can go back to the PBR viewer for events or if there is an update that might improve things.

I am not Anti- the new viewer, I am happy they rushed to get it out for SLB, but also happy to wait until they fix the problems that make using a step backwards in terms of stability.

Edited July 7 by Aethelwine

[BriannaLovey]

9 hours ago, Candide LeMay said:

Well you do you. But the features gap will only widen, especially after gltf scene import hits the grid and I expect LL to eventually put the foot down and invoke the "shared experience" clause against non-compliant viewers. Just because it's open source doesn't mean there are no rules.

Eventually I plan on using the latest version of Firestorm as a base, and doing one of the following:

1) Take the Firestorm 6.6.x rendering code and put it in newer versions of firestorm, then use the same base_color trick that Cool VL Viewer uses in order to make glTF items visible without using PBR. This will ensure that all the code for fetching, caching, etc. of glTF-based assets is there, but the rendering will be the same as it was on prior versions.

2) Use the Cool VL Viewer's rendering code inside latest Firestorm. This will be more difficult, as it uses additional dependencies that Firestorm does not use, and a completely different set of settings from the Firestorm viewer. It would be worth it to do though, since Cool VL Viewer's renderer is far superior to that of any other viewer as far as efficiency goes.

But since widespread invisible objects won't be a problem until further down the road, my fork will simply be based on Firestorm version 6.6.17 for now, but with the login blocking and auto update checking code disabled. I already have this part done; you should be able to compile the viewer from source right now if you want to use it yourself. I am still figuring out how to build it for Windows, which is sadly a bit harder than on Linux :c

And if LL starts outright blocking viewers not on the official TPV list from logging in whatsoever...that will be a huge mistake on their part. This would mean that for people who don't want to use PBR, they would need to falsify their viewer info and possibly hardware info, both of which are trivially easy to do. For many, breaking the SL TOS is better than not using SL at all (evidence available if you contact me personally inworld.) This is not a good precedent to set, as it opens the doors to all sorts of other stuff.

Edited July 7 by BriannaLovey

[AmeliaJ08]

The lengths some of you will go to be contrarian are pretty impressive, I'll give you that.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

I use this little Core Temp 1.18.1 monitor real-time to watch CPU core temp, %Load, and RAM usage.  The basic indicators sit in my bottom Win10 taskbar.   With FS PBR viewer, and shadows on, and all the other new features turned off (sorry I don't need any of them) I can get my CPU to hit 95-100% load if I spin the cam around a mesh and texture heavy parcel (my home).  Stop moving cam and CPU load drops to 25 -75% load.   Not going into details, just suggesting this simple real-time monitor that uses no screen space and starts when Win10/11 is loaded.

CPU Temp, %RAM used, and CPU %Load numbers resp.  (X1 is the EVGA graphics card monitor icon.)

https://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/

 

Just be aware there  is such as thing as PC performance anxiety, this is especially prevalent in SL nerdy folk because SL can run like junk on a good day when everything is going right (and the best course of action when that randomly happens is to give it a minute).

Or you risk ending up focused on the numbers and not on whatever you're supposed to be doing.

Close all the numbers, no FPS, no temps, no statistics at all .. and  trust that the teams of engineers that built the components and software in your PC got it right (if they didn't, manually watching tiny numbers change won't save you).

[Coffee Pancake]

2 hours ago, BriannaLovey said:

This is not a good precedent to set, as it opens the doors to all sorts of other stuff.

It forces LL to clamp down on TPV access to the grid.

PBR is LL's baby. We don't get the choice to reject it.

[BriannaLovey]

5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It forces LL to clamp down on TPV access to the grid.

PBR is LL's baby. We don't get the choice to reject it.

Read what I said again. Unless they start forcing TPVs to include anticheat software or a similar measure, there is no way to enforce this. You of all people should know this.

Anyways, if they do that, then there is always OpenSim. Where asset piracy is rampant and there is no real way of enforcing it. It would be a shame if people stopped paying money for the latest mesh items in SL, yes?

[HeathcliffMontague]

A lot of iGPU users already have pretty expensive computers, let's not forget that. It's not automatically Luddite whining. Lots of CPU power and RAM. Yet here I go (sometimes literally) sailing past them in this new-ish SL of ours with a very, very modest AMD Radeon RX 6500M 4 GB GDDR6 and a Ryzen 5. You can understand the frustration. I sure do.

[Coffee Pancake]

7 minutes ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

A lot of iGPU users already have pretty expensive computers, let's not forget that. It's not automatically Luddite whining. Lots of CPU power and RAM. Yet here I go (sometimes literally) sailing past them in this new-ish SL of ours with a very, very modest AMD Radeon RX 6500M 4 GB GDDR6 and a Ryzen 5. You can understand the frustration. I sure do.

I have bought a Ferrari.

I wish to do the weekly grocery run for my family of 5 in it. i wish them to come too.

Understand my frustration and rage.

[HeathcliffMontague]

50 minutes ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

The lengths some of you will go to be contrarian are pretty impressive, I'll give you that.

Ever been stuck on a so called "potato" in SL? You get pretty inventive. I've done the spectrum from Core2 to i7, so I have some experience from all sides

 

[Codex Alpha]

26 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It forces LL to clamp down on TPV access to the grid.

PBR is LL's baby. We don't get the choice to reject it.

They better go all in and get it right then.. Sansar was their baby too and they did it their way as well.. and what happened.

Oh but we do have the choice to reject it.  If it can run smooth, present PBR as good as other engines, I'm all there.. if it's half-butted (which unfortunately seems to be the observed behaviour) then nah... lost interest.

Do or do not, I say to LL. And dont take 6 years to do it!

[Arielle Popstar]

44 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

It forces LL to clamp down on TPV access to the grid.

PBR is LL's baby. We don't get the choice to reject it.

You do seem to have the choice of both the old and new though if Henri's Cool VR Viewer is any indication.

[Arielle Popstar]

37 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

Read what I said again. Unless they start forcing TPVs to include anticheat software or a similar measure, there is no way to enforce this. You of all people should know this.

Anyways, if they do that, then there is always OpenSim. Where asset piracy is rampant and there is no real way of enforcing it. It would be a shame if people stopped paying money for the latest mesh items in SL, yes?

The asset piracy happens in SL but opensim is just one of the places it gets dumped. Thought I'd clear that up for you. 😉

[HeathcliffMontague]

3 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

You do seem to have the choice of both the old and new though if Henri's Cool VR Viewer is any indication.

You really don't get a choice eventually. PBR has been clumsily (to put it mildly) integrated, but that's what it's at from now on going forward. I'm sorry.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

You really don't get a choice eventually. PBR has been clumsily (to put it mildly) integrated, but that's what it's at from now on going forward. I'm sorry.

Think a lot of it will depend on how quickly builders adopt it and whether they also put in backup bling plong (sp). I could see some of the more popular clubs and venues looking specifically for content that has both so as to not affect the view of clients who may use one viewer or another.

[Codex Alpha]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Think a lot of it will depend on how quickly builders adopt it and whether they also put in backup bling plong (sp). I could see some of the more popular clubs and venues looking specifically for content that has both so as to not affect the view of clients who may use one viewer or another.

I have no desire to create or update anything while SL is in transition. Waste of time.

[HeathcliffMontague]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Think a lot of it will depend on how quickly builders adopt it and whether they also put in backup bling plong (sp). I could see some of the more popular clubs and venues looking specifically for content that has both so as to not affect the view of clients who may use one viewer or another.

Perhaps

[HeathcliffMontague]

8 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

I have no desire to create or update anything while SL is in transition. Waste of time.

Yet you seem to spend a lot of time in the forums  But yeah, it's a transition period for sure.

[HeathcliffMontague]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I have bought a Ferrari.

I wish to do the weekly grocery run for my family of 5 in it. i wish them to come too.

Understand my frustration and rage.

I will do my best to avoid your  frustration and rage  I guess if you've just spent 1500 USD on a brand new i7 laptop with umpteen gigs of RAM and no GPU the joke is on you. But have heart here... Sellers can be slick creatures. Most folks just don't know.

Edited July 7 by HeathcliffMontague

[BriannaLovey]

52 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

The asset piracy happens in SL but opensim is just one of the places it gets dumped. Thought I'd clear that up for you. 😉

Whatever, semantics. My point is that if people are kicked off of SL because of the viewer they use, they will go to OpenSim because it has a bunch of free stuff. This will cause a decrease in economic activity in SL.

[HeathcliffMontague]

59 minutes ago, BriannaLovey said:

Whatever, semantics. My point is that if people are kicked off of SL because of the viewer they use, they will go to OpenSim because it has a bunch of free stuff. This will cause a decrease in economic activity in SL.

OpenSim, last I visited , was like pirate heaven without the benefit of tried and true  SL physics.  Have things changed?

[BriannaLovey]

1 minute ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

OpenSim, last I visited , was like pirate heaven without the benefit of tried and true  SL physics.  Have things changed?

OpenSim doesn't have Havok, no. Physics seemed a bit better than they have been previously though. Just more pirated stuff. The reality though is that most users don't care about intellectual property, and most don't care about the difference in physics.

[Porky Gorky]

2 hours ago, HeathcliffMontague said:

I've done the spectrum from Core2 to i7, so I have some experience from all sides

But have you actually tried using a ZX Spectrum?