Conifer Dada Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) I know this topic has been covered before but it's worth coming back to. Say you want your avatar to be 5ft 6in tall (1.68m) tall. Using the standard Linden Lab viewer, if you set that height on the shape slider, you'll be considerably taller than a prim of the same height. In other words, there's a mismatch between the scale of the appearance slider and that of of prims. I use the Alchemy viewer, where the shape slider value has been amended to correspond very closely to prim scale. The same is true of Firestorm. Yet we still have this scale discrepancy on the LL viewer. I don't know how much people are bothered about scale in SL. Some people probably just want their avatar to be big to dominate the dancefloor, or maybe they just don't care about scale at all. Certainly some builders don't seem too bothered about scale when it comes to buildings or furniture, which matters if it's no-mod! I wonder why LL never amended the height scale on the shape slider. As well as that being amended, it would be useful to have a new 'scale' slider that lets you alter the size of your avatar without affecting any proportions. Edited June 13 by Conifer Dada 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I really don’t think about it that much because there doesn’t seem to be a standard scale and I don’t have control over what other people do. So I don’t really pay much attention to what it says. I just eyeball it because saying “I’m 5 feet tall and so is my avatar” doesn’t appear to be correct. In other words, if I make my avatar 5 feet, I appear to be smaller than that in world. There is also the issue of female avatars seeming to have a different scale than male avatars. Since I take photos, I just pay attention to my size relative to the objects around me. IE if I take a picture sitting in a chair, do my feet touch the ground? So the sweet spot for me seems to be somewhere around 6 feet. But I have seen backdrops where the doorknob is shoulder height. Is it technically correct? Probably not, but it is relatively correct. There is also the trend of male avatars being extremely tall and female avatars being really small. So I tend to be two heads shorter than a lot of males, but about a head taller than most females. There is also the default camera angle, which I’ve gotten used to. Its too many factors and not really worth worrying about. I think the ship has sailed on the scale issue a long time ago. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Sangria Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I'm not into following the masses, as sometimes the M is silent. I've been tall (but not overly tall) since I was two weeks old, and I'm comfortable with that. It's SL—my world, my imagination. Just like in first life, we come in all shapes and sizes. This subject has been beaten to death. It's time to let it go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 (edited) I thought the LL viewer had updated the height indication in edit appearance, so I logged on to check my memory. And I was wrong! I made a prim to the height indicated by the LL viewer in plywood. Then I logged back into FS and checked the height indicator there. To my surprise the indicator for FS actually shows my avatar as being taller than she is. I made a prim in solid white to match the height indicated in FS. So..... Yes, I took off my hat for this pic .. isn't that a lovely ring around my head!!! lol So I guess I can't depend on either viewer to give me an accurate measurement for my avatar's height. It doesn't really matter to me though. I'm more inclined to go by how my avatar interacts with my favorite furniture. These days mesh furniture tends to be on the smaller size as it's more economical to go smaller with mesh to reduce land impact. The most important thing for me in regards to avatar appearance isn't height but an accurate representation of human proportion. Edited June 13 by Blush Bravin 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ze Helix Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I never make an avatar with a specific height in mind. But I will of course go shorter for a goblin and taller for an elf or something. When I make shapes I am often standing in a blank space with no references and I notice I tend to go shorter. When I meet up with friends and I feel too short in comparison I like to adjust my shape on the fly. Height in relation to others is most important to me and I'll go from shortish to a maxed out height slider if I'm hanging out with tall friends and my character isn't supposed to be particularly short. Usually just make the head bigger, body a bit wider and fix the arms so its quick and the proportions will be different but not necessarily wonky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PheebyKatz Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 7 hours ago, Blush Bravin said: I thought the LL viewer had updated the height indication in edit appearance, so I logged on to check my memory. And I was wrong! I made a prim to the height indicated by the LL viewer in plywood. Then I logged back into FS and checked the height indicator there. To my surprise the indicator for FS actually shows my avatar as being taller than she is. I made a prim in solid white to match the height indicated in FS. So..... Yes, I took off my hat for this pic .. isn't that a lovely ring around my head!!! lol So I guess I can't depend on either viewer to give me an accurate measurement for my avatar's height. It doesn't really matter to me though. I'm more inclined to go by how my avatar interacts with my favorite furniture. These days mesh furniture tends to be on the smaller size as it's more economical to go smaller with mesh to reduce land impact. The most important thing for me in regards to avatar appearance isn't height but an accurate representation of human proportion. Notice the original prim tops out at the level of your avatar's eyes. That's where it measures to, eye level. Whenever you measure your height in the editor, it measures up to eye level, so account for the extra height with this in mind. Also, prim height and "real" height are different. I know, dead horse, but yeah. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conifer Dada Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 Of course people can be whatever they want in SL and that means they can be whatever height they want. But I'd like to see consistent scale measurements so that it's easier for those who want to to create a scale environment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Voxel Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 57 minutes ago, Conifer Dada said: Of course people can be whatever they want in SL and that means they can be whatever height they want. But I'd like to see consistent scale measurements so that it's easier for those who want to to create a scale environment. I mean, even with that i just use relative scale, because its easier for me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PheebyKatz Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, Conifer Dada said: Of course people can be whatever they want in SL and that means they can be whatever height they want. But I'd like to see consistent scale measurements so that it's easier for those who want to to create a scale environment. I get what you're saying. I know scale is weird in SL, but when building for public use I do tend to try and work within certain set parameters, if only so that the "average user" can walk through and not have to adjust their camera overmuch. It's almost impossible to build to any "realistic" scale, though, mostly because of that camera thing. It's really hard not to make every building have high ceilings and stuff, if only to keep floors out of the way of people's cameras. I've visited builds in the past that made me feel like a tiny. Edited June 14 by PheebyKatz 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 4 hours ago, PheebyKatz said: Notice the original prim tops out at the level of your avatar's eyes. That's where it measures to, eye level. Whenever you measure your height in the editor, it measures up to eye level, so account for the extra height with this in mind. Also, prim height and "real" height are different. I know, dead horse, but yeah. This just proves the point. The measurement is off in both cases. No one uses eye level to indicate a person's height, nor some imaginary line floating above the top of the person's skull. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PheebyKatz Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Just now, Blush Bravin said: This just proves the point. The measurement is off in both cases. No one uses eye level to indicate a person's height, nor some imaginary line floating above the top of the person's skull. Yup, not disagreeing. It's a perennial kvetch for many users, myself included. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 2 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said: It's really hard not to make every building have high ceilings and stuff, if only to keep floors out of the way of people's cameras. I haven't used the default camera position since around 2010. It's the reason we have the mess we have now. Default camera is just fine as long as you don't go inside a building with anything close to a normal ceiling height. I don't make allowances for poor camera position when I build. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PheebyKatz Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Blush Bravin said: I don't make allowances for poor camera position when I build. I do, because it's the reality I build in. I can't force every visitor to my home sim to adjust their camera angles, nor would I want to. Instead I follow the standard, accepted building practices as explained to me by the sim owner for whom I build. It would be really nice if things were otherwise, but until then I just do the best I can. My attitude towards things in SL doesn't change their reality. I wish it did, but yeah. I just try to make sure people can see themselves and not the floor above them when they walk in, unless they're a giant or something. In that situation, they're probably used to it. I'll be damned if I make everyone sit in oversized armchairs, though. Those are just a little too 2009. Edited June 14 by PheebyKatz 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blush Bravin Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 6 minutes ago, PheebyKatz said: I do, because it's the reality I build in. I can't force every visitor to my home sim to adjust their camera angles, nor would I want to. Instead I follow the standard, accepted building practices as explained to me by the sim owner for whom I build. It would be really nice if things were otherwise, but until then I just do the best I can. My attitude towards things in SL doesn't change their reality. I wish it did, but yeah. I just try to make sure people can see themselves and not the floor above them when they walk in, unless they're a giant or something. In that situation, they're probably used to it. I'll be damned if I make everyone sit in oversized armchairs, though. Those are just a little too 2009. My architectural builds fall in line with the scale of Linden Homes. So I don't really decide how to size my builds for the most part. Though when I make furniture it's made to fit my avatar. But have to say, there are times when I actually size up purchased furniture to use with my avie, and I'm rather average height even by SL standards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PheebyKatz Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 Just now, Blush Bravin said: My architectural builds fall in line with the scale of Linden Homes. So I don't really decide how to size my builds for the most part. Though when I make furniture it's made to fit my avatar. But have to say, there are times when I actually size up purchased furniture to use with my avie, and I'm rather average height even by SL standards. Even when I'm working in Blender, I try to match that same scale, at least visually, so as not to have to resize every upload. And furniture, guhhh~! I think unless someone buys everything from the same vendor, they're doomed to having to resize everything to fit. I can't stand seeing furniture that isn't proportional with the other furniture in a place. Getting it to fit people, and not just the place, is even more to deal with. I built myself a little cottage once, for my own use, and I'm very short. I still made sure grownup avatars could walk through and not have issues. One day though, I'm going to make a little house all for myself, and anyone over 1.3 meters tall is going to have trouble visiting me. I owe myself that much at least, one place where everything is made just to fit me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conifer Dada Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 (edited) With our place, Egotherapy, the size of the building wasn't related to any RL building and we made the doors taller than in most RL buildings to allow larger avatars to enter. But the furniture etc, which was mostly bought in or LInden Premium gifts, was scaled to be compatible with my height. On our short list of rules there's a sentence: "If your avatar is too tall to fit through the door, that's your problem, not ours." Our 9ft tall robot just manages to get through the door although it does have a few small dents on the top of its head. Edited June 14 by Conifer Dada 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 (edited) From what I remember.. The second life viewer height is based on Agent height which is I believe at eye level rather than avatar height. It's something to do with agent physics.. It's been a long time since I remember hearing the explination.. Maybe it has something to do with those really old avatars that they used to have in that world they had before this one, where they used guns to terraform.. Maybe they took that base foundation and used it in this world.. I'm just guessing on that part though.. But they did look pretty blocky.. hehehe Edited June 15 by Ceka Cianci 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starberry Passion Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 Yeah, it's like that and If you are on the latest version, or on a Beta viewer of Alchemy or Firestorm latest viewer, the height scaling has been changed. For example, Though they said that height does not show you are a child or not, they changed the height in general. Instead of 4'7" being the shortest, now you can be 4'0", or shorter given the right shape and know how, for your child avatar needs or dwarfism or little person needs, you are now shorter on the Second Lab viewer than you are on the firestorm viewer, as well. It use to be the other way around, that's most likely why Second Life users on that viewer seen Firestorm viewers as shorter than they though. How I figured this out, when I logged out, I was 5'1" then a new update appeared, logged in and was 4'7". I asked in Firestorm group, they said the scaling/height was changed. I logged out and logged into the second life viewer, I was 4'4" on there, 3 inches shorter than on firestorm viewer. It use to be you were at least 6 or 7 inches taller on Second life, over firestorm viewer. So if you were 5'6" on firestorm you're like 6'0" 6'1". I had to re-adjust my height to 5'1" so I wouldn't be a dwarf anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conifer Dada Posted June 15 Author Share Posted June 15 (edited) This is puzzling: My height was set to 5ft 6in (1.65m) on the LL viewer. That's my normal height. On the Alchemy viewer that reads as 5ft 9in (1.76m) and it's the same on Firestorm. I normally use the Alchemy viewer at the moment but today I logged in to the latest LL viewer and that now says my height is 5.12ft (1.56m). I haven't altered my height so LL must have very recently altered the height scale on the sliders. 1.65m has become 1.56m without me making any changes. This means the avatar shape scale is now even bigger in relation to prim scale on the LL viewer. If I set my height to 5ft.6in on the Alchemy scale, that makes my slightly taller than a 5ft 6in prim. Edited June 15 by Conifer Dada 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorientje Woller Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 No wonder that I hit my head against the top of the door when I am using Firestorm while the door is made in the LL viewer. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasterscan Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 (edited) I can't really stand being inside buildings in SL, they usually feel far to claustrophobic, and I say that as a competent camera mode user - alt mouse and ctrl alt mouse. Viz a viz I'm usually to be found on a deckchair or blanket on the beach. Hope that helps Edited June 15 by rasterscan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elleevelyn Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 On 6/13/2024 at 9:46 PM, Conifer Dada said: it would be useful to have a new 'scale' slider that lets you alter the size of your avatar without affecting any proportions. i read on Inara blog recently that Linden have taken this idea in house for consideration. They arent promising anything but taking it inhouse does indicate that is something that would be useful to residents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elleevelyn Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 On 6/14/2024 at 2:09 PM, Blush Bravin said: My architectural builds fall in line with the scale of Linden Homes this is the best we are going to get as a build scale standard. If only because there are more buildings to this scale than by any other set/group of builders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 2 hours ago, rasterscan said: I can't really stand being inside buildings in SL, they usually feel far to claustrophobic, and I say that as a competent camera mode user - alt mouse and ctrl alt mouse. Viz a viz I'm usually to be found on a deckchair or blanket on the beach. Hope that helps I'm the same way.. I have to have wide open places to live. I think every place that I have had for a home has had big rooms or warehouses and things like that, if I'm gonna be inside.. I usually just make my own or look for ones that someone made that I like.. I've tried doing the cramped houses because the idea sounds nice.. But they always go on the shelf.. I hate getting cut off by walls and hate having my camera really that close to myself. I have to have a wide view of the world when I'm moving around.. hehehe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elleevelyn Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 (edited) 3 hours ago, Conifer Dada said: This is puzzling: I haven't altered my height so LL must have very recently altered the height scale on the sliders. 1.65m has become 1.56m without me making any changes. This means the avatar shape scale is now even bigger in relation to prim scale on the LL viewer. i checked this. You right seems Linden have done something wonky Girl Next Door is 1.72m (out-of-the-box) according to Linden Viewer Second Life Release 7.1.8.9375512768 (64bit) here against a 1.72m prim the difference between eye-level and top of head has been deducted from the old, rather than added Edited June 15 by elleevelyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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