Do people wearing obvious adult avatars also get in trouble if being in an adult venue with people in avatars deemed to be under 18 by Linden Lab?

[Bree Giffen]

There's been a lot of discussion on avatars that look under 18 but there is nothing being said about any adult avatars in proximity to underage avatars. I think this cuts into the heart of the matter of avatars being banned in venues for being short. If obvious adult avatars are immune to prosecution then they can report the potential minor and feel no need to ban them. If they are not immune then a cautionary ban and reporting would be the correct way to handle such events. 

[Alwin Alcott]

20 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

Do people wearing obvious adult avatars also get in trouble if being in an adult venue with people in avatars deemed to be under 18 by Linden Lab?

 the under aged ones are already breaking TOS by being there. The adults are not.

unless ...

they, the adults, engage in the things that are breaking TOS.

I'm not going to search for it, but i think this is already being discussed somewhere in the thousends of posts.

Edited May 16 by Alwin Alcott

[Ceka Cianci]

If they are engaging in adult activities with them they would. That's like perma ban offense.

[brodiac90]

It's what you're doing and where that most matters. 

Were you dancing at a very adult club in A land when suddenly a child avatar appears? You've done nothing wrong, you're on adult land and child avatars are not allowed on adult land. 

Were you on a nude beach on M land when suddenly a child avatar appears? Child avatars are allowed on M land, but again you've done nothing wrong since TOS forbids child avatars from being in the presence of nudity, especially where it's expected. 

You go onto G land where fully clothed, modesty layered child avatars are hanging around and decide to take off all your clothes and put on all your favourite adult attachments. Yeah, LL are going to throw the book at you.... 

[Love Zhaoying]

32 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

It's what you're doing and where that most matters. 

Were you dancing at a very adult club in A land when suddenly a child avatar appears? You've done nothing wrong, you're on adult land and child avatars are not allowed on adult land. 

Were you on a nude beach on M land when suddenly a child avatar appears? Child avatars are allowed on M land, but again you've done nothing wrong since TOS forbids child avatars from being in the presence of nudity, especially where it's expected. 

You go onto G land where fully clothed, modesty layered child avatars are hanging around and decide to take off all your clothes and put on all your favourite adult attachments. Yeah, LL are going to throw the book at you.... 

We need flowcharts!

[Sadvhi]

Adult avatars would be wise to avoid even Moderate sims where people who are roleplaying "barely legal" 18 year olds hang out, like escort sims, "family friendly" swimming pool/beach sims, daddy/babygirl clubs, adult baby diaper lover sims, etc. 

[Qie Niangao]

4 hours ago, Bree Giffen said:

There's been a lot of discussion on avatars that look under 18 but there is nothing being said about any adult avatars in proximity to underage avatars. I think this cuts into the heart of the matter of avatars being banned in venues for being short. If obvious adult avatars are immune to prosecution then they can report the potential minor and feel no need to ban them. If they are not immune then a cautionary ban and reporting would be the correct way to handle such events. 

The scenario presented here is that the venue will report the short avatar, the decision being whether or not to also ban them, on the premise that banning them will help prevent the more adult-looking avatars from getting in trouble.

But to the short avatar, if they're going to be reported anyway, why would they even care if they were also banned from the venue? 

If this is the "heart of the matter of avatars being banned in venues for being short" I need to be educated on that topic. (I've avoided those threads for about a week, so it's very possible I need such education.)

[Kathlen Onyx]

18 minutes ago, Sadvhi said:

Adult avatars would be wise to avoid even Moderate sims where people who are roleplaying "barely legal" 18 year olds hang out, like escort sims, "family friendly" swimming pool/beach sims, daddy/babygirl clubs, adult baby diaper lover sims, etc. 

I would not expect to see most of these activities on a M rated sim with the exception of a swimming pool/beach sim.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The scenario presented here is that the venue will report the short avatar, the decision being whether or not to also ban them, on the premise that banning them will help prevent the more adult-looking avatars from getting in trouble.

But to the short avatar, if they're going to be reported anyway, why would they even care if they were also banned from the venue? 

If this is the "heart of the matter of avatars being banned in venues for being short" I need to be educated on that topic. (I've avoided those threads for about a week, so it's very possible I need such education.)

If the short avatar IS banned from the venue, that doesn't mean any AR's were filed. "Banning" can be automatic, via script. "AR's" require a human to do stuff.

Meanwhile, every short avatar banned from a Region will be paranoid that they were also AR'd. But chances are, they weren't.

[Jaylinbridges]

32 minutes ago, Sadvhi said:

Adult avatars would be wise to avoid even Moderate sims where people who are roleplaying "barely legal" 18 year olds hang out, like escort sims, "family friendly" swimming pool/beach sims, daddy/babygirl clubs, adult baby diaper lover sims, etc. 

Those are mostly on Adult sims. What M rated sim has "family friendly" beaches?    

The popular M-rated clubs always have a mix of young and older adults.  It would be silly to tell adults to not go to Fogbound or Peak Lounge, for example - just because a few 18+ appearing avatars hang out there.  That could be is a reason they are popular clubs.

Edited May 16 by Jaylinbridges

[Sadvhi]

2 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Those are mostly on Adult sims. What M rated sim has "family friendly" beaches?    

There are nude beaches on Moderate sims that are advertised as being for both children and adults.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Sadvhi said:

9 minutes ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Those are mostly on Adult sims. What M rated sim has "family friendly" beaches?    

There are nude beaches on Moderate sims that are advertised as being for both children and adults.

The children will not allowed to be nude going forward.

[Sadvhi]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The children will not allowed to be nude going forward.

If child avatars are still allowed to hang out at nude beaches chatting with naked adults, the illegal activities are going to continue since those kinds of venues attract people who are interested in doing things that are against the TOS.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Sadvhi said:

If child avatars are still allowed to hang out at nude beaches chatting with naked adults, the illegal activities are going to continue since those kinds of venues attract people who are interested in doing things that are against the TOS.

Read posts in the other threads about it, and let us know if that changes your mind any.

I would provide you some reasons why "the changes will make a difference", but I feel like you probably won't accept any of the reasons based on your comment.

 

[brodiac90]

51 minutes ago, Sadvhi said:

Adult avatars would be wise to avoid even Moderate sims where people who are roleplaying "barely legal" 18 year olds hang out, like escort sims, "family friendly" swimming pool/beach sims, daddy/babygirl clubs, adult baby diaper lover sims, etc. 

Those places just need closing down, everyone would be wise to avoid them. 

[brodiac90]

6 minutes ago, Sadvhi said:

If child avatars are still allowed to hang out at nude beaches chatting with naked adults, the illegal activities are going to continue since those kinds of venues attract people who are interested in doing things that are against the TOS.

They're not though. TOS specifically forbids child avatars being in the presence of nudity. The so called 'family friendly' nude beaches that encouraged adult and child avatars to be nude together are now 100% illegal. Thankully so.  

[Persephone Emerald]

58 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

We need flowcharts!

Maybe Venn diagrams.

[brodiac90]

15 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The children will not allowed to be nude going forward.

Not only will they not be allowed to be nude, but they won't be allowed near nude adults. I mean tell me you're banning family nude beaches without telling me you're banning family nude beaches. 

Edited May 16 by brodiac90

[Love Zhaoying]

Irony: if mom is a Hucow, but now has to buy "Formula".

[Love Zhaoying]

Irony: if 90% of SL users are naked IRL when online. (Made up figure.)

[brodiac90]

17 minutes ago, Sadvhi said:

If child avatars are still allowed to hang out at nude beaches chatting with naked adults, the illegal activities are going to continue since those kinds of venues attract people who are interested in doing things that are against the TOS.

I can understand the confusion. These places do still exist but they shouldn't as they're breaking TOS. 

This place needs reporting. It's the first one I found and was pretty close to the top of the list. I.e. not hard to find. 

Edited May 16 by brodiac90

[Psyche Starling]

6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Irony: if 90% of SL users are naked IRL when online. (Made up figure.)

Lies! I'm in janky sweats when I'm online! 😆

[Persephone Emerald]

8 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

Those places just need closing down, everyone would be wise to avoid them. 

The owners of family-friendly nude beaches will have to change their rules or the type of venue. They should be in violation of the TOS if they don't. (Is it clear in the new TOS that those who allow TOS violations on their land are also in violation?) They can keep the beach as a nude adult beach or as a family-friendly non-nude beach.

Even if the land owner's intent were to facilitate sexual hookups between adult-presenting avatars and child-presenting avatars, users who want that don't need public nudity. It's still going to happen in private IMs and "behind closed doors", but at least it will be less visible, which will help protect Linden Lab's reputation.

[Sadvhi]

If you search for the term "family", other sims that are highly suspect also show up, like that family swimming pool sim. I did a scan of avatars in that region (from afar) and there was someone there who had a photo of a real life child as her profile picture, and another person whose profile pic was an old man with white hair. But there is nothing wrong with those sims, since they disallow nudity - and peole there could just be engaging in wholesome family roleplay for all I know. But I'm always suspicious when a sim gets a lot of traffic and is advertised as being a playground for "all ages". I'd never actually visit one of those places to find out what goes on there, regardless of whether I was wearing a child avatar or an adult body.

[brodiac90]

2 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The owners of family-friendly nude beaches will have to change their rules or the type of venue. They should be in violation of the TOS if they don't. (Is it clear in the new TOS that those who allow TOS violations on their land are also in violation?) They can keep the beach as a nude adult beach or as a family-friendly non-nude beach.

Even if the land owner's intent were to facilitate sexual hookups between adult-presenting avatars and child-presenting avatars, users who want that don't need public nudity. It's still going to happen in private IMs and "behind closed doors", but at least it will be less visible, which will help protect Linden Lab's reputation.

I think the reality is that most of these places will just become family-friendly non-nude beaches as you said. They'll do whatever they can to just barely toe the line in public and still do the sick stuff they want to do in private.