Discuss or Comments about Child, Adult, Can't Tell Thread

[Rolig Loon]

2 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I have very mixed feelings about Governance. In general, I probably have less faith in them than you do, but I tend to think that their problem is less that they are overzealous (as I think some here fear they will be) than badly understaffed. My complaints about them have tended to be regarding their failure to act upon obvious violations of the ToS, rather than about them possibly being a little trigger-happy.

That's fair.  SL is a large place. My guess is that Governance gets a lot of frivolous AR's a week and a lot more that don't end up being real violations but misunderstandings. As a parallel, I've been watching some of the things that are being posted in the new Canny platform that has replaced JIRA for reporting bugs and suggestions for improvements and new features. A fair percentage of those look pretty odd to my eye, so I'm prepared to believe that something like that mix happens on Governance's side of the house too.  Sorting the wheat from the chaff is a slow, dull job, and I think you're right that there are never enough people around to do it.  Trigger-happiness isn't the peril.  It's overwork. Governance has to take a special kind of patience and a thick skin, plus a hefty dose of empathy.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

7 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

There are some writing devices that clearly went over your head.

Lol. Right. Rolig is, of course, a very unsophisticated reader!

Have you met her?😏

A Masterclass in "How to Win Friends and Influence People" happening right here, folks.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

3 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:

Governance has to take a special kind of patience and a thick skin, plus a hefty dose of empathy.

Rather, I suspect, like being a forum mod. It's not something I'd care to do.

[Rolig Loon]

10 minutes ago, Codex Alpha said:

There are some writing devices that clearly went over your head. The statements are in quotes - which means they are not my thoughts.

Thank you for elucidating. I'm vaguely familiar with the concept of quotation marks.  I seem to recall that they can be used as you are explaining, and that they can also be used to express disbelief. In RL, people even tend to use air-quote hand gestures when they want to suggest that whatever they are saying isn't to be taken seriously.  One of the failings of language is that we can't always tell which way a writer means quotation marks, so a footnote or a friendly follow-up explanation helps.  Thanks again.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 hours ago, Codex Alpha said:

"Not just babies wear diapers, old people have to wear diapers too, and what if you're RP'ing a hospital patient that has uncontrolled bowel movements and have to wear a diaper - how will LL judge that? I'm scared"

"I don't think it would be fair to get banned just because my avatar was in diapers"

- SL Forum Logic

So, you're making fun of people who think they will get banned just for wearing diapers? If so, I agree those users' concerns are not based in fact. 

Edited May 13 by Love Zhaoying

[taya Maruti]

11 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

So, you're making fun of people who think they will get banned just for wearing diapers? If so, I agree those users' concerns should not be based in fact. 

kinda hard to understand what you are saying here.

[taya Maruti]

@Codex Alpha if you have been wondering why i have been ignoring you is A) my concern is not fear of being banned over  a diaper, i have been trying to gage how people percieve my avitar and i needed an outside opinion, the other thread provides that without having to bother other people while they are going about thier business.. B) you are just being a troll and i have been around long enough to understand the best way to deal with coments like yourse are to just ignore them.

besides this seems like a fun way to go about it, was the point of the thread not as described in the origional post, and is this discussion not for the comments that were left out of the other, and descussions about the other posts, or questions on why people may have voted how they did so that some one who is concerned could improve?

[Love Zhaoying]

35 minutes ago, taya Maruti said:

48 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

So, you're making fun of people who think they will get banned just for wearing diapers? If so, I agree those users' concerns should not be based in fact. 

kinda hard to understand what you are saying here.

That's fine, I'm trying to understand what someone else is saying.

Perhaps "should not be based in fact" would have been clearer as, "are not based in fact". I'll edit the post.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I have very mixed feelings about Governance. In general, I probably have less faith in them than you do, but I tend to think that their problem is less that they are overzealous (as I think some here fear they will be) than badly understaffed. My complaints about them have tended to be regarding their failure to act upon obvious violations of the ToS, rather than about them possibly being a little trigger-happy.

That said, a major and repeating griefing problem I had last year -- the cause of many of my complaints -- seems to have been resolved as there has not been a repetition in some time.

I DO think they are going to be a bit more vigorous and proactive on the a*eplay front for a bit, as they try to establish the new rules. But I think they'll only be coming down hard on very obvious violations, as they work to clean up the grid in the wake of recent allegations. I think they'll be much gentler with edge-cases, with a focus upon what we've been here calling "education."

Mostly, however, none of this will be visible to most of us. Including, I suspect, to most of those in the child avatar community.

I tend to agree with this, they are understaffed and under pressure to fix a problem that for all intents and purposes, they can't.

What I find most problematic is that with a single act, they seem to routinely disconnect people from their SL because they didn't know the rules, didn't think they were breaking them, step by step built an avatar that when all combined it didn't pass or just straight up made a crappy avatar and failed the landing.

I am not a trained therapist, suicide or crisis counselor.

Yet this responsibility has been dropped in my lap more times than I am comfortable recounting. Gov have torched accounts of friends and I have had to watch them spin off the rails as a result. The 'banned and handling it badly' end up on reddit & reaching out on discord, because they are banned from here! Cut off from their entire social graph, loved ones and support networks... the few people who really get SL, kinda get sucked in and invested.

Sure there are bad actors who are here to intentionally use the platform in harmful ways. But a perma-ban doesn't stop them. They are right back and we all know it. For those, the first ban stings and then it turns to anger and defiance, then they're back with a copy bot, they aren't shopping, the only investment is sticking it to LL. This whole mess becomes a game.

Ever escalating suspensions would be a far more effective punishment. Every suspension double the one before. Let them come back, account as they left it, purge only contraband, avatar reset to something from the library. Let them keep their investment. Let them run into the wall till the size of the next ban is more then they can stand, everyone has a limit. And so long as they can be lured into this game, they aren't undermining the actual platform.

This also ticks the box of justice being seen to be done.

We all like to moan - "I don't wanna get banned again" is a pretty solid whine, makes the actions of governance visible without LL needing to breach anyone's privacy AND educates!

Edited May 13 by Coffee Pancake

[taya Maruti]

44 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That's fine, I'm trying to understand what someone else is saying.

Perhaps "should not be based in fact" would have been clearer as, "are not based in fact". I'll edit the post.

that makes more sense and pretty close to what i did understand dunno what it was that was throwing me on it.

Edited May 13 by taya Maruti

[ValKalAstra]

5 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Even then, I can't really recall ever meeting anyone with a diaper fetish here, and it's not really the most talked about thing, lol. When I saw it in Yakuza ages ago, I couldn't help but giggle. Yakuza games take all kinds of risks, though. Seeing the convo here reminded me of those scenes and I had to post one of them. Couldn't help it! 🤣 

And no, I seriously doubt if anyone's running around as an obvious adult like that, they'd be a target. At least I hope not. Just let people live, lol.

Slightly off topic but that is also the precise scene where I gained a lot of respect for Yakuza: Like a dragon. It's a game full of funny and over the top hijinks mixed with moments of genuine heart, care and emotion. Even the protagonist Ichiban is such a lovable nerdy goofball that he canonically imagines combat like his favourite JRPG video games.

And then you enter that room and see those burly gangsters in diapers and yah. It's hard to not think this is another funny hijink until the game more or less goes: Why are you laughing? What's so funny? It then goes and teaches you what it is about, turning what could have been a joke into a weirdly wholesome moment.

In a game about gangsters throwing bikes, pigeons and orbital laser cannons at each other!

It is, to bring it circling back on topic, a good lesson on judging things too quickly which perhaps is what folks are afraid of. Once I'm back home I'll go through the newer pics too and again, if wanted, hit me with that IM or an @

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:.

I am not a trained therapist, suicide or crisis counselor.

This doesn't stop most people, you're probably doing a fine job.

[Coffee Pancake]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

This doesn't stop most people, you're probably doing a fine job.

I know I'm not. I know that for a fact.

Second Life - Come for the existential crisis, Stay for the survivors guilt.

[Love Zhaoying]

26 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I know I'm not. I know that for a fact.

Second Life - Come for the existential crisis, Stay for the survivors guilt.

So what's the solution, always give people a warning? Emails get missed. Maybe "in-game" warning notices, with a way to view them?

It would be helpful if you had a suggestion (rather than what appears to be just complaints). Assume for the sake of argument, that the TOS itself is not up for debate.

 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

37 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

I know I'm not. I know that for a fact.

Second Life - Come for the existential crisis, Stay for the survivors guilt.

Key word.

And very much an accomplishment.

Edited May 13 by Scylla Rhiadra

[Marianne Little]

I know I look young in the pictures I posted, but the main question is: Do I look TOO young?

And would another hair be enough to be "old enough"? As I see it, that is what's most "youthful", unless one must wear makeup when they are over 18. Height is 1,75 m in Firestorm. I only mention heigh because some people talk about "overall" look.

Is the hair "safe" with DD breasts? Or different clothes? Some posted in another tread that bows in the hair is what a child would wear.

Would LL consider me over 18 if I was reported? That is what matters.

 

 

 

Edited May 13 by Marianne Little

[Roxy Couturier]

8 hours ago, taya Maruti said:

I wonder of the 4 who labled my avatar as a child what was your reason, the unkown i can understand, as it seems a common theme on avitars using less than popular/common bodies.

For me it was an over all impression. I'm now not even sure which type of animal your AV is based on. if it's a cow, the head looks like a calf shape to me. The cow spots made me assume it was bovine. Given that even if it isn't supposed to be bovine, it looks like it -could- be. Again, the over all look says young bovine despite the kinky gear.

The overall shape says underage to me. chubby legs and small breasts in a diaper are a very underage form.

There's nothing wrong with ABDL, but it would be a very hard no to allowing that AV on an adult venue I controlled. To be honest, I'd be uncomfortable being anywhere near that look no matter the sim rating.

Full disclosure, I have a hu-cow on one of my alts.

[Roxy Couturier]

27 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

I know I look young in the pictures I posted, but the main question is: Do I look TOO young?

And would another hair be enough to be "old enough"? As I see it, that is what's most "youthful", unless one must wear makeup when they are over 18. Height is 1,75 m in Firestorm. I only mention heigh because some people talk about "overall" look.

Is the hair "safe" with DD breasts? Or different clothes? Some posted in another tread that bows in the hair is what a child would wear.

Would LL consider me over 18 if I was reported? That is what matters.

Your body proportions are adult, the skin says underage to my eyes. if the lip color is baked into the skin, I'd try a neutral lippy. You could take away the blush too. (If you're going for a 'no make up beauty' then you shouldn't have any blush or lipstick on, even if it's just 'a little bit'.)

That's my -opinion- as to what makes her seem younger to my eyes.But as to what governance would do is anyone's guess and I'd assume largely depends on how you comport yourself while doing adult activities.

[brodiac90]

My control sample proves people can be sensible about these sorts of topics which is reassuring to those who want to be judged fairly. 

[SlammedSam]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

I know I look young in the pictures I posted, but the main question is: Do I look TOO young?

And would another hair be enough to be "old enough"? As I see it, that is what's most "youthful", unless one must wear makeup when they are over 18. Height is 1,75 m in Firestorm. I only mention heigh because some people talk about "overall" look.

Is the hair "safe" with DD breasts? Or different clothes? Some posted in another tread that bows in the hair is what a child would wear.

Would LL consider me over 18 if I was reported? That is what matters.

 

 

 

I have similar concerns, in relation to my appearance as well. I am happy to say most peg me as adult. Though for those not sure, or feel I seem younger, I would ask how one came to such conclusions, as well as what I might do to more effectively look adult.

If it matters, my height is 5'9", or also 1.75 m. And, I'm oft told I have a womanly/curvy build, as well.

Edited May 13 by SlammedSam
Rewording a bit.

[brodiac90]

22 minutes ago, SlammedSam said:

I have similar concerns, in relation to my appearance as well. I am happy to say most peg me as adult. Though for those not sure, or feel I seem younger, I would ask how one came to such conclusions, as well as what I might do to more effectively look adult.

If it matters, my height is 5'9", or also 1.75 m. And, I'm oft told I have a womanly/curvy build, as well.

Are we talking about this image here? 

[ValKalAstra]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

I know I look young in the pictures I posted, but the main question is: Do I look TOO young?

And would another hair be enough to be "old enough"? As I see it, that is what's most "youthful", unless one must wear makeup when they are over 18. Height is 1,75 m in Firestorm. I only mention heigh because some people talk about "overall" look.

Is the hair "safe" with DD breasts? Or different clothes? Some posted in another tread that bows in the hair is what a child would wear.

Would LL consider me over 18 if I was reported? That is what matters.

While I did vote adult on your latest image - I found your picture really fascinating. Four or five years ago, I would have probably said that your avatar looks rather young and could potentially appear <18.

However, I have since met a good friend that looks just like that, including the thin and petite body, even the twintail hairstyle (which by the way, gimme name and vendor please <3).

You could be her sister if going by looks. As for my friend, well - she is 27 very soon to be 28. So in theory, you should be on the safe side of things. The face especially does look adult to me and if people take offense with the ribbons, they might need to visit some european cities, maybe. It's a popular look! I've also recently seen a woman clearly in retirement age wear cute pink ribbons and they made her look dignified, not childish.

[Marianne Little]

2 hours ago, Roxy Couturier said:

Your body proportions are adult, the skin says underage to my eyes. if the lip color is baked into the skin, I'd try a neutral lippy. You could take away the blush too. (If you're going for a 'no make up beauty' then you shouldn't have any blush or lipstick on, even if it's just 'a little bit'.)

That's my -opinion- as to what makes her seem younger to my eyes.But as to what governance would do is anyone's guess and I'd assume largely depends on how you comport yourself while doing adult activities.

26 minutes ago, ValKalAstra said:

While I did vote adult on your latest image - I found your picture really fascinating. Four or five years ago, I would have probably said that your avatar looks rather young and could potentially appear <18.

However, I have since met a good friend that looks just like that, including the thin and petite body, even the twintail hairstyle (which by the way, gimme name and vendor please <3).

Truth - Smitten

You could be her sister if going by looks. As for my friend, well - she is 27 very soon to be 28. So in theory, you should be on the safe side of things. The face especially does look adult to me and if people take offense with the ribbons, they might need to visit some european cities, maybe. It's a popular look! I've also recently seen a woman clearly in retirement age wear cute pink ribbons and they made her look dignified, not childish.

Interesting that you @ValKalAstra think the face look adult, while another post just over your says the skin look underage. What people think is so different.

I am not going no makeup, I have a lipgloss and the cheek blush.

People may think freckles is childish too. Who knows what they judge on.

It does not bother me at all if people think 17 y old, but denying access to adult regions is really harsh. If I am renting a place where the region is adult, and some jerk reports me (because he/she is Karen or does not like me personally) they can eff off. What LL would do is the interesting part, and it gives me a bit of uneasy feeling.

@Keira Linden do you have a comment? In regards to the "Presenting under the ago of 18 is required to follow the policy in regards to child avatars."

Is there some difference if the report is submitted as present in XXX club where adult activities is taking place, versus shopping in an adult region?

 

 

Edited May 13 by Marianne Little
added part about Keira Linden

[Rick Nightingale]

9 hours ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Though to think of someone at LL having to really think seriously about some of this very niche stuff is somewhat amusing to me.

I would love to be a fly on the wall (an adult one of course) in some of their meetings about it. If it was run by the sort of people I used to work with, it would be hilarious.

[SlammedSam]

1 hour ago, brodiac90 said:

Are we talking about this image here? 

The other one.