Will The New TOS on Child Avatars Ensnare Short Adults?

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Thank you!

The way I like to put it is, allowing AP in Second Life emboldens, empowers, and encourages those who may want to then go "act out" in RL with "actual children".

Studies have also seen that when certain types are able to get their jollies in virtual, they are less inclined to take their cravings to the real world.

 

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

Why? They should have read the TOS. Just because it's common practice to just check stuff doesn't mean you should.

Ever sign a contract? If you are in the habit of signing them without reading them then I suggest you don't do that. 

Why? 

Because losing paying users is bad for business.

[Rowan Amore]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Wasn't talking about a child's defense of an AR but remarking on a typical interaction between an adult leaning to pedo behaviour and potential victim.

In RL, yes.  That has no bearing on SL.where we are adults.  Sorry, but if they, as an adult, can be groomed into an AP scenario, then I'd say they were also a paedophile.  I just don't see it any other way as far as SL is concerned.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

In RL, yes.  That has no bearing on SL.where we are adults.  Sorry, but if they, as an adult, can be groomed into an AP scenario, then I'd say they were also a paedophile.  I just don't see it any other way as far as SL is concerned.

Ok, if you say so.

[Ineffable Mote]

10 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Why? 

Because losing paying users is bad for business.

Not all paying users are equal, and even in the real world - some are too destructive and costly to keep hanging around.

[Rowan Amore]

16 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Studies have also seen that when certain types are able to get their jollies in virtual, they are less inclined to take their cravings to the real world.

 

Cite a source because that's not what I've read.  It actually empowers.them in some cases to be more active in RL.  

Anyway, this avenue is definitely off topic and honestly, making me uncomfortable about people's thought process.

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Ya know, I'm a.little sick of people assuming just because a person isn't 5 foot tall.or.shorter that the rest of us are some giant balloon animals.  I'm my RL height just like others.  My shape is very close to real.life, just like others.  You do all know there is a wide variety of sizes besides small and XL?  

Get some new material, ffs.  It's getting old.

My female avatars range in height between 5 ft. and 6 ft. if they're wearing a doll or human avatar. Even my guy avatar is never taller than 6' 6".

[Love Zhaoying]

25 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

28 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Thank you!

The way I like to put it is, allowing AP in Second Life emboldens, empowers, and encourages those who may want to then go "act out" in RL with "actual children".

Studies have also seen that when certain types are able to get their jollies in virtual, they are less inclined to take their cravings to the real world.

Gee, it's too bad for them, that the depiction of those jollies are illegal.

Sad!

 

[Qie Niangao]

25 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

28 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

In RL, yes.  That has no bearing on SL.where we are adults.  Sorry, but if they, as an adult, can be groomed into an AP scenario, then I'd say they were also a paedophile.  I just don't see it any other way as far as SL is concerned.

Ok, if you say so.

It's kind of hard to imagine a "victim" who is engaged in some SL behavior unwillingly. Presumably one or the other makes the first move, but unless there's genuine coercive behavior (RL sextortion pics or something), or a real life minor slipped through, it seems mutually consensual, right?

On the other hand, not to play language police, but "paedophile" has some pretty serious connotations, at least to me, and however abhorrent or illegal bumping of underage pixels may be, it doesn't have all those connotations. But usage may vary: Red Pill Guy got away with calling the Thai cave rescuer "Pedo Guy" for knowing a megalomaniacal publicity stunt when he saw one.

Edited May 16 by Qie Niangao

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I don't think pedos play with each other or there wouldn't be such a huff about them. The prob is that they seem to enjoy grooming new victims prior to their conquest. It is their foreplay it seems like.

You know darn well they are not grooming and recruitung kids in SL!

The only kids in SL are pretending to be adults.

The problem in SL is adults pretending to be kids and "playing" with other adults who are into that game.

[Rowan Amore]

9 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

 

On the other hand, not to play language police, but "paedophile" has some pretty serious connotations, at least to me, and however abhorrent or illegal bumping of underage pixels may be, it doesn't have all those connotations. But usage may vary: Red Pill Guy got away with calling the Thai cave rescuer "Pedo Guy" for knowing a megalomaniacal publicity stunt when he saw one.

I agree.  Up until that post, which was in response to someone who had previously used pedo, I've refrained from.using it as it does lessen it to some degree.  Person engaged in AP is normally what I use.

[Love Zhaoying]

Answering the question posted by the thread's title, "Will The New TOS on Child Avatars Ensnare Short Adults?":

Yes, if the "Short Adults" are roleplaying either as child avatars, or WITH child avatars, in ways that are against the TOS.

To "ensnare" something just means to "catch" it. "Ensnare" does not mean to "catch unfairly" (or "trap").  You may be thinking of something similar to a "dragnet"?  Or "entrap"?

When an "animal" steps in a "snare", it "snares itself".  Fair and square!

 

[Starberry Passion]

People keep using the word pedo to make it mean something it is not, this alters the definition and changes its mean. Not only that, it mocks real life victims.

You either make children seem like cartoons are you're making them seem like adults who aren't really kids that need to be protected.

"They are adults playing a child avatar playing with other adults." 

Do you not realize how that looks?

Anyways, A.P is banned in Second life, you can be short, you don't have to worry about getting banned for being short and just move on. This whole thing is just a mass hysteria that only causes fear, when it was just about child avatars.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I agree.  Up until that post, which was in response to someone who had previously used pedo, I've refrained from.using it as it does lessen it to some degree.  Person engaged in AP is normally what I use.

"Pedophile", "pederast", all mean something different but related.

If someone just says "pedo", we "know what they mean".

Unless the same people who "don't know what a child looks like", somehow also "don't know what a pedo is".

 

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

It's kind of hard to imagine a "victim" who is engaged in some SL behavior unwillingly. Presumably one or the other makes the first move, but unless there's genuine coercive behavior (RL sextortion pics or something), or a real life minor slipped through, it seems mutually consensual, right?

Why is it hard for you to imagine some homeless, penniless, and friendless resident being vulnerable to being groomed? I expected way better from you Qie. I only have to point to the https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/319-make-friends/ section of the forum for one to see that there is a boatload of people in there needing more that they currently have and willing to advertise it. That doesn't even touch the sims inworld where there are plenty that are open to hypnosis, transformations and such into whatever else someone is willing to make of them.

Quote

On the other hand, not to play language police, but "paedophile" has some pretty serious connotations, at least to me, and however abhorrent or illegal bumping of underage pixels may be, it doesn't have all those connotations. But usage may vary: Red Pill Guy got away with calling the Thai cave rescuer "Pedo Guy" for know a megalomaniacal publicity stunt when he saw one.

I don't know what you mean in this section.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

53 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Keeping the "bad people's bad behavior" away from Second Life DOES solve something.

It solves keeping that "bad behavior" away from Second Life!  And in doing so, Second Life continues.

I thought you and others were worried about Second Life being impacted by the new rules..

 

explain to me how the new rules will keep bad behavior out of second life. i’ve asked many how these rules will solve the problem, but no one can answer. oh i know, maybe YOU can explain how the rules will end forbidden AP in SL 😬

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

explain to me how the new rules will keep bad behavior out of second life. i’ve asked many how these rules will solve the problem, but no one can answer. oh i know, maybe YOU can explain how the rules will end forbidden AP in SL 😬

IKR?

We've had laws against things like murder FOREVER, and yet people keep getting murdered!!!

I think it's high time we stopped pretending that these useless rules are accomplishing anything.

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Why is it hard for you to imagine some homeless, penniless, and friendless resident being vulnerable to being groomed? I expected way better from you Qie. I only have to point to the https://community.secondlife.com/forums/forum/319-make-friends/ section of the forum for one to see that there is a boatload of people in there needing more that they currently have and willing to advertise it. That doesn't even touch the sims inworld where there are plenty that are open to hypnosis, transformations and such into whatever else someone is willing to make of them.

I'm completely lost. Being "groomed" by pedophiles is bad. Right?

* bangs head on wall *

[Rat Luv]

22 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

On the other hand, not to play language police, but "paedophile" has some pretty serious connotations, at least to me, and however abhorrent or illegal bumping of underage pixels may be, it doesn't have all those connotations. 

It's not something you would just have a 'passing interest' in, though? 

"I like Victorian RP,  I've always loved the clothes and household items, but it's not practical for me to buy them IRL...so SL Victorian sims fill that gap!"

"I'm a firefighter in a RP community, it's just a bit of fun in the evenings and helps me unwind after work and meet new creative people!"

"Oh, I like to go on SL and RP being a nonce...just RP though, I don't care for child abuse IRL!" 

[brodiac90]

10 minutes ago, Rat Luv said:

It's not something you would just have a 'passing interest' in, though? 

"I like Victorian RP,  I've always loved the clothes and household items, but it's not practical for me to buy them IRL...so SL Victorian sims fill that gap!"

"I'm a firefighter in a RP community, it's just a bit of fun in the evenings and helps me unwind after work and meet new creative people!"

"Oh, I like to go on SL and RP being a nonce...just RP though, I don't care for child abuse IRL!" 

Yeah, it's real enough for the sickos to get whatever they get out of it. I'm not sure it matters if the children are virtual or not. Pedofile seems to be a pretty apt description, and given my own RL childhood I think I can state that with some confidence. 

Edited May 16 by brodiac90

[Arielle Popstar]

11 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm completely lost. Being "groomed" by pedophiles is bad. Right?

* bangs head on wall *

Are you defending it?

[Love Zhaoying]

21 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Keeping the "bad people's bad behavior" away from Second Life DOES solve something.

It solves keeping that "bad behavior" away from Second Life!  And in doing so, Second Life continues.

I thought you and others were worried about Second Life being impacted by the new rules..

 

explain to me how the new rules will keep bad behavior out of second life. i’ve asked many how these rules will solve the problem, but no one can answer. oh i know, maybe YOU can explain how the rules will end forbidden AP in SL 😬

Sure, I'll give it a try..again!

I know, I know, it's easy to miss my posts because I post "too much".  All I can do is say, "I'm sorry!"  I've been told I don't give my opinion enough (was that by you?), but in truth almost all my posts are "just my opinion" whether I state that or not.

1. First of all, I think your question above, and the way you phrase it, is a "trick question".  I don't think that anyone is claiming the changes to the Rules will "END" the problem of "forbidden" AP in Second Life.  

When I say a "trick question", it's because "no rule will always be successful 100% of the time".  There, that's my opinion!

2. Rules are, in general, meant to be "deterrents". This is because breaking the Rule has negative consequences.

You've seen a lot of posts from people upset about the possibility of "being banned", losing their accounts, losing their investments, etc. 

Those reactions are an example of a "deterrent at work".  This is because breaking the Rule has "consequences".

What's that mean? The very threat of holding someone accountable to the new rule, is causing some people to consider the affect on THEM (if they get accused, AR'd, etc. - hopefully only "justifiably").

So, my point here is, while 1. the Rule change will not necessarily "END" the "forbidden" AP in Second Life, it will 2. act as a deterrent.

3. The "Deterrent" of the consequences of breaking the new Rule, will in turn cause people to consider their actions, and - hopefully - cause them to "not" perform those behaviors ("forbidden" AP in this case) in Second Life.

In Summary

- No-one is saying the Rule changes will "END" the "forbidden" AP in Second Life.  

- The Rule changes will act as a "deterrent" because of negative consequences.

- The "deterrent" will result in "less" of the undesirable behavior in Second Life.

Executive Summary

Rules result in a "deterrent effect", because breaking the Rules results in negative consequences.  This results in fewer Rule violations.

 

Edited May 16 by Love Zhaoying
Spelling

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm completely lost. Being "groomed" by pedophiles is bad. Right?

* bangs head on wall *

Are you defending it?

No. I assumed you brought up "grooming" because somehow, it came up in a political context - which almost 100% of the time has zero to do with Second Life, or with Child Abuse / AP in Forum discussions - and is almost always brought up as some anti-LGBTQ argument.

I hope that answers your question clearly enough.

 

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

No. I assumed you brought up "grooming" because somehow, it came up in a political context - which almost 100% of the time has zero to do with Second Life, or with Child Abuse / AP in Forum discussions - and is almost always brought up as some anti-LGBTQ argument.

I hope that answers your question clearly enough.

 

Grooming is a characteristic that some employ inworld and real life that describes how one takes control of another. Nothing political about it in this context and not some anti-LGBTQ argument. It happens to both sexes and those in between.

Hope that answers yours

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Sure, I'll give it a try..again!

I know, I know, it's easy to miss my posts because I post "too much".  All I can do is say, "I'm sorry!"  I've been told I don't give my opinion enough (was that by you?), but in truth almost all my posts are "just my opinion" whether I state that or not.

1. First of all, I think your question above, and the way you phrase it, is a "trick question".  I don't think that anyone is claiming the changes to the Rules will "END" the problem of "forbidden" AP in Second Life.  

When I say a "trick question", it's because "no rule will always be successful 100% of the time".  There, that's my opinion!

2. Rules are, in general, meant to be "deterrents". This is because breaking the Rule has negative consequences.

You've seen a lot of posts from people upset about the possibility of "being banned", losing their accounts, losing their investments, etc. 

Those reactions are an example of a "deterrent at work".  This is because breaking the Rule has "consequences".

What's that mean? The very threat of holding someone accountable to the new rule, is causing some people to consider the affect on THEM (if they get accused, AR'd, etc. - hopefully only "justifyably").

So, my point here is, while 1. the Rule change will not necessarily "END" the "forbidden" AP in Second Life, it will 2. act as a deterrent.

3. The "Deterrent" of the consequences of breaking the new Rule, will in turn cause people to consider their actions, and - hopefully - cause them to "not" perform those behaviors ("forbidden" AP in tis case) in Second Life.

In Summary

- No-one is saying the Rule changes will "END" the "forbidden" AP in Second Life.  

- The Rule changes will act as a "deterrent" because of negative consequences.

- The "deterrent" will result in "less" of the undesirable behavior in Second Life.

Executive Summary

Rules result in a "deterrent effect", because breaking the Rules results in negative consequences.  This results in fewer Rule violations.

 

Black and white thinking will not resolve this and as has been stated by various people throughout this thread, mostly only affects the innocent.