So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Persephone Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

So we’re reporting child avatars for existing. Just in case they might be in IM. 

🙄

[Luna Bliss]

I need to emphasize again why AP is so offensive -- it's not because 'ewww it makes me feel icky'...it's because in such instances we are witnessing a more powerful person taking advantage of someone with less power.

Abuse of power.

Edited May 8 by Luna Bliss

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, ErwinVonVlotho said:

They just can't roleplay being teenagers in THE SAME bed - and nor should they.

Fixed that for you.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

The confusing part to me is, if they are "both consenting", and "both same-age".  Doesn't make it OK.

I suppose it's not ours to "judge", but this is where we "ask" what's OK.

 

 

No one knows what goes on in IM except LL and the parties involved.   

I run a red light.  Just because no one caught me doesn't mean I didn't break the law.  Will I get a ticket?  Probably not but that doesn't make it any less illegal.   

if one of those underage avatars is someone who engages in AP...whole can of worms right there.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

So we’re reporting child avatars for existing. Just in case they might be in IM. 

If what we se on the Marketplace via griefers who find power in attacking merchants, I think we're going to see an entirely new level of vigilantism.

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

So we’re reporting child avatars for existing. Just in case they might be in IM. 

Not sure who said that, my own response was that "one child avatar could report the other" if they were BOTH in IM's and things got naughty.  The fact both are "child avatars" is supposedly irrelevant. 

[Anna Salyx]

This thread has broke the top 5 in terms of number of replies.  Matching in scope in 7 days what other threads have taken years to do.  Not sure what that says though.

Except....

I keep trying to quit this thread, but like slow motion train wreck, I cannot force myself to look away.  Trapped like a deer in headlights even. 

Sorry, I have nothing else to add but that.  Carry on.

Edited May 8 by Anna Salyx
fixed the day count

[Coffee Pancake]

So what you’re saying is it’s unsafe for child avatars to be near other child avatars. 
 

Ever. 
 

just in case. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

It seems to me that if someone were using a mesh body intended for adult avatars (eg. Maitreya, Reborn, Legacy, Belleza, Slink, Erika, etc.), but they look young, short and "child-like", it would be reasonable for them to state in their profile that their avatar is a short adult. Sim owners & managers can still boot them, but they would be able to "prove" to Governance that they're using an adult body. Since LL probably doesn't really care about how teen-presenting avatars behave, I don't think they'll act on an AR against teen-avatars unless there is other evidence to show that they are presenting as a minor.  Same with anime. Post in your profile that your avatar is an adult and then don't do or say other things to make it look like your avatar is actually a child.

If someone chooses to engage in sexual behavior while presenting as "child-like" or "teen-like" they risk losing their account, but if they're just at a club or wherever on Moderate land, they should probably be safe.

There's a lot of assumption and guessing in this, though. I personally don't think the "I'm 18, yo" profile disclaimers mean much of anything at all. If someone were to snap a photo of said avatar doing something very against the rules and it gets posted around the web or whatever, their profile disclaimer won't be making it into the shot. Still a bad look.

I think, just for clarity's sake, it's better if LL notes in the TOS or FAQ if the modesty rules are only for the under 12 crowd or includes the 13+, as well. I see no reason why that can't be made crystal clear for us.

Oh and clubs on moderate land are risky. LL is advising child (again, does this include older teen?) avatars change to non-child or non-human avatars just to SHOP on moderate land. No way would I risk taking one into a nightclub.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

1 minute ago, Luna Bliss said:

I need to emphasize again why AP is so offensive -- it's not because 'ewww it makes me feel icky'...it's because in such instances we are witnessing a more powerful person taking advantage of someone with less power.

Abuse of power.

This is NOTHING to do with ***-play in RL.

It's about the ToS.

The ToS clearly states that ADULTS who PRETEND to be minors may NOT engage in any sexual activity, at all, ever, no matter how much they are PRETENDING to be in love or PRETENDING to be in therapy, or PRETENDING to contact their spirit guides, or PRETENDING to be learning Yogi-Bear-Flying

 

No amount off amateur shopping mall pop-psychology and fashionably far eastern mumbo jumbo exempts them from the ToS.

Ever.

 

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, ErwinVonVlotho said:

18 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I think it's a shame that two adults can't roleplay being teenagers in love in SL.

Of course they can roleplay being teenagers in love. They just can't roleplay being teenagers in bed - and nor should they.

Other than breaking the TOS why shouldn't they?  And if discovered do you believe the penalty should be less severe than the scenario of an older person being sexual with a child/teenager?

[Persephone Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I need to emphasize again why AP is so offensive -- it's not because 'ewww it makes me feel icky'...it's because in such instances we are witnessing a more powerful person taking advantage of someone with less power.

Abuse of power.

Luna, the important point is not what is offensive. There is alot of stuff in SL that many of us probably find offensive. The important points are what is against the TOS.

[Luna Bliss]

Just now, Persephone Emerald said:

5 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I need to emphasize again why AP is so offensive -- it's not because 'ewww it makes me feel icky'...it's because in such instances we are witnessing a more powerful person taking advantage of someone with less power.

Abuse of power.

Luna, the important point is not what is offensive. There is alot of stuff in SL that many of us probably find offensive. The important points are what is against the TOS.

True, but not all offenses should be treated the same via punishment, and so the distinction is necessary.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Anna Salyx said:

I keep trying to quit this thread

You cannot quit The Thread.

It's like when Jake Gyllenhaal (as Jack Twist) said in Brokeback Mountain, "I wish I knew how to quit you."

(This is an example where a meme would have been better, but we were advised to keep it down on the memes.)

 

[Rowan Amore]

Some people do more harm to a debate than good.

[Love Zhaoying]

8 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I need to emphasize again why AP is so offensive -- it's not because 'ewww it makes me feel icky'...it's because in such instances we are witnessing a more powerful person taking advantage of someone with less power.

Abuse of power.

This keeps coming up, but the "Why" is not really on topic.

I do however, think you are wrong in that - as I understand it -  XXX Play is "roleplay as a young person" doing things they should not - it does not imply that there is always a person abusing that power.  It is the depiction (including text) of underage activities that is the issue. NOT the "abuse of power", because there will not always be an "older" in the mix.

I could be wrong, but that is not how I read the TOS text - because I do not believe it goes into that level of VERY gory, hair-splitting detail.

"XXX Play" is bad, and as with so many things, "you know it when you see it".

If this is not clear in the TOS - ON TOPIC!! - then, perhaps the TOS needs clarified on these points also.

I hope that is "fair".

[Theresa Tennyson]

We're getting into an area that we seem to get fairly often on the forums: "Technically, it says so and so isn't allowed, but what if I do it under a whatzit?"

NOBODY IS EVER GOING TO SAY, "OH, THAT'S OKAY."

Because it's setting a precedent. Are you going to get in trouble by doing it under a whatzit? It would not shock me if you didn't. But people won't say, "That's okay," because it's telling you how to do what you're not technically supposed to be doing.

 

Edited May 8 by Theresa Tennyson

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

11 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

13 minutes ago, ErwinVonVlotho said:

Of course they can roleplay being teenagers in love. They just can't roleplay being teenagers in THE SAME bed - and nor should they.

Fixed that for you.

The question then becomes, if they're in separate beds are they allowed to "roleplay" with themselves as long as they don't talk about it? 😅

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Some people do more harm to a debate than good.

"When you order an Abnormal Psychologist online from Wish"

Restated: The topic is not about "sexuality", or "psychology", or "developmental discussions".

[Persephone Emerald]

8 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Oh and clubs on moderate land are risky. LL is advising child (again, does this include older teen?) avatars change to non-child or non-human avatars just to SHOP on moderate land. No way would I risk taking one into a nightclub.

Playing a child, a teen or an anime character is not my thing, but it is for many people. My alt Alycia sometimes dresses as a doll, but I'm not going to put her in an adult situation or setting while wearing a child-like doll avatar. 

I joked many pages back about hentai sims with anime characters, but this is a real thing in SL. The people who are into that are going to have to take a hard look at whether that kind of RP is worth the risk of losing their accounts. 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

NOBODY IS EVER GOING TO SAY, "OH, THAT'S OKAY."

Yet - the question was framed as if it "should be ok".  

[Starberry Passion]

7 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

There's a lot of assumption and guessing in this, though. I personally don't think the "I'm 18, yo" profile disclaimers mean much of anything at all. If someone were to snap a photo of said avatar doing something very against the rules and it gets posted around the web or whatever, their profile disclaimer won't be making it into the shot. Still a bad look.

I think, just for clarity's sake, it's better if LL notes in the TOS or FAQ if the modesty rules are only for the under 12 crowd or includes the 13+, as well. I see no reason why that can't be made crystal clear for us.

Oh and clubs on moderate land are risky. LL is advising child (again, does this include older teen?) avatars change to non-child or non-human avatars just to SHOP on moderate land. No way would I risk taking one into a nightclub.

To me, personally, all this looks like is "I hate slim women" "I hate short people." 

They see her face and she's pretty but she is 5'3" so they A.R. her and try to get her account banned.

This is what it just looks like to me and that is some of the most f-ed up stuff.

[Paul Hexem]

18 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

So we’re reporting child avatars for existing. Just in case they might be in IM. 

Better safe than sorry!

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said:

The question then becomes, if they're in separate beds are they allowed to "roleplay" with themselves as long as they don't talk about it? 😅

I believe it is acceptable to sit on separate beds, and silently gaze into one another's eyes, without touching or sharing any words.  

[Fluffy Sharkfin]

Just now, Persephone Emerald said:

Playing a child, a teen or an anime character is not my thing, but it is for many people. My alt Alycia sometimes dresses as a doll, but I'm not going to put her in an adult situation or setting while wearing a child-like doll avatar. 

I joked many pages back about hentai sims with anime characters, but this is a real thing in SL. The people who are into that are going to have to take a hard look at whether that kind of RP is worth the risk of losing their accounts. 

I suspect there may be some people in-world who have no idea that the new TOS changes may even apply to them in the perceptions of other residents.