So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[ErwinVonVlotho]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Are Sporks allowed?

I actually have a titanium spork. Hard to sharpen, but it does hold a wicked edge.

[Alwin Alcott]

12 minutes ago, ErwinVonVlotho said:

They're allowing child avatars - for now, until the whining and TOS-lawyering gets too irritating for them - but they're not actively supporting their creation.

that won't hold in court if they get paid for it, incidentely might go, but 20yrs continuity gets somewhat harder. 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Nope. Why would I ask in  DM when asking on the forum has more comedic value? 

In fact, I was just looking on MP so I could provide a link myself, but sadly I did not find a blow-up unicorn avatar. 😥 

You couldn't find "My lil Unicorn" ? There's about 12 hits on that search phrase, and only one isd made of rubber.

Your google-0fu needs more practice, grasshopper.

 

[Madi Melodious]

2 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

No, most of their money comes from land barons, not individual users. I suspect Land barons can operate on a negative rental income and still make money on tax write offs, but don't quote me.

Hold the Phone!  You can write your SL off........?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Are Sporks allowed?

Why am I getting flashbacks to Alan Rickman in that Robin Hood movie.

"I'm going to disembowel him with a spoon"

"Why a spoon?"

"Because it's blunt, it'll hurt more..."

[BilliJo Aldrin]

7 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Nope. Why would I ask in  DM when asking on the forum has more comedic value? 

In fact, I was just looking on MP so I could provide a link myself, but sadly I did not find a blow-up unicorn avatar. 😥 

think i found it, its not an actual unicorn though.

Rainbow Unicorn Dream Boy. S*x Doll

Only one review, but they said they loved it 😁

*considers sending Persephone one as a gift*

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Anna Salyx said:

7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Are Sporks allowed?

Yes. 

But I'm pretty sure that splayds are not.

If the "Spork character" ("Forky") from Toy Story was an avatar, would it be a Child avatar, or an Adult avatar?

Utensil avatars that follow the TOS are important.

Oh, but wait - the TOS is only about HUMAN avatars, right?

That's a relief (because of Furries, etc.)

[Persephone Emerald]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

think i found it, its not an actual unicorn though.

Rainbow Unicorn Dream Boy. S*x Doll

Only one review, but they said they loved it 😁

*considers sending Persephone one as a gift*

No. Please don't.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

think i found it, its not an actual unicorn though.

Rainbow Unicorn Dream Boy. S*x Doll

Only one review, but they said they loved it 😁

*considers sending Persephone one as a gift*

Nope wrong one, but good effort.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Persephone Emerald said:

No. Please don't.

Sorry, mods.

[Rowan Amore]

22 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Will adult avatars with "dwarfism" be considered "child avatars"?

Even if they have beard, grey hair, etc.?

No.

At least, I don't think so.

YMMV.

 

I mentioned somewhere way back there...there's a man at a club I go to all the time who presents as a little person.  Aside from his height, he looks like any other male avatar.  Hair, clothing, face, overall body shape/proportions.   I've never once thought he was playing as a child avatar.  He's about 1/2 my height.  

[Zalificent Corvinus]

30 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Will adult avatars with "dwarfism" be considered "child avatars"?

Even if they have beard, grey hair, etc.?

No.

At least, I don't think so.

YMMV.

 

This doesn't look like a child.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I mentioned somewhere way back there...there's a man at a club I go to all the time who presents as a little person.  Aside from his height, he looks like any other male avatar.  Hair, clothing, face, overall body shape/proportions.   I've never once thought he was playing as a child avatar.  He's about 1/2 my height.  

Exactly, yet some bring up height a lot since that worries them. 

I think it is GOOD that the TOS is "vague" on what a child looks like. Otherwise, people would be "riding that edge" all the time.   (I do think it's a shame that region / club owners may still ban based on height, but what can ya do.)

 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I mentioned somewhere way back there...there's a man at a club I go to all the time who presents as a little person.  Aside from his height, he looks like any other male avatar.  Hair, clothing, face, overall body shape/proportions.   I've never once thought he was playing as a child avatar.  He's about 1/2 my height.  

Yep. There are very good reasons why height alone can't be a factor.

Hell, there are a bunch in the fantasy community who have been begginnnng one creator to make us a dwarf body. Whether or not we get it is a whole other thing, but a test version has been in production for a bit. It's super short, but very muscular and stocky, soooo...with a male or female head and the right beard, there's no mistaking that for anything but an adult.

[Coffee Pancake]

On 5/7/2024 at 7:32 AM, Quartz Mole said:

This is clearly an issue about which a lot of people have strong views and is clearly causing a good deal of concern for a particular group.  Many of the people affected who aren't regular forum users may well find themselves here for the first time, because they've asked friends or inworld groups what these changes are all about and been told there's a thread about them in the forums. 

Please let's try to ensure that people who haven't been following this thread from the beginning don't come here to catch up, only to find it's degenerated into a load of off-topic chatter, memes and jokes. 

Many are reading this thread, freaking out at the unabashed hate being spewed for hundreds of pages and walking away.

I've been poked by people about this very thing in world and on discord.

I'm trying to get some to come to the governance meeting tomorrow - The responses so far can neatly be summed up as

F*** NO

People are walking away because this thread is nothing more than an opportunity for a few regulars to attack every concern or question raised.

LL : We're not banning child avatars !

LL : But this mob sure look angry about their existence, fascinating.

but sure .. this fist fight about are child avatars comparable to lethal prison sporks is what's relevant, good job forums.

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Exactly, yet some bring up height a lot since that worries them. 

I think it is GOOD that the TOS is "vague" on what a child looks like. Otherwise, people would be "riding that edge" all the time.   (I do think it's a shame that region / club owners may still ban based on height, but what can ya do.)

 

Oh, people ride that line ALL the time.  I've seen some very questionable pictures those people post on Flickr, too.    However, unless someone sees them acting inappropriately, they probably don't get ARed.  I do think though with the new rules about child avatars not being allowed on Adult land, I might be seeing less of that.

[Madi Melodious]

2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Clickbait

Clickbait,

Clickbait

I'm not sure what word means what you think it means.  🤔

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Many are reading this thread, freaking out at the unabashed hate being spewed for hundreds of pages and walking away.

Some of the people spewing hate are those who newly enter the thread!

[Love Zhaoying]

9 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

but sure .. this fist fight about are child avatars comparable to lethal prison sporks is what's relevant, good job forums.

I'm not sure why someone brought up spoons. I only brought up "sporks" to try and show how ridiculous it was to talk about spoons (since there is a "spork character" in Toy Story).  I missed the "prison spork" reference. Thanks!

I think the distraction there is: Any talk about non-human avatars is NOT relevant.  At the same time, I recall someone saying, "what if they took away furries?".  So, there's that.

ETA: Guess people brought up "spoons" since even a lowly, innocent spoon can be "misused", just as any avatar can be used to break the TOS? Hard to say.

Edited May 8 by Love Zhaoying

[ErwinVonVlotho]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I'm not sure why someone brought up spoons.

 

I was making the point that if I modify a spoon into a shank that's my fault, not the spoon manufacturer's - just like, if someone modifies an adult system avi into a non-compliant child one, that's their fault, not LL's. Either way the supplier of the product is not responsible if people modify it into something illegal.

[Codex Alpha]

6 hours ago, Jaylinbridges said:

Take it up with Linden Lab.  Humans don't have tails or equine ears, but a pony does.  Sorry that following the LL Child Avatar FAQ is misinformation to you.

Q: I am a child avatar in SL. How do I shop for anything, when many of the popular stores for furniture, AOs, gestures, etc. have both regular and adult versions in their Moderate rated store?

A: As stated above, child avatars cannot engage or participate in the use of adult versions of such content. It may be best to create an outfit with a non-human or non-child human persona to run errands such as shopping, such as any of the default Second Life avatars, robots, et cetera.

Unfortunately, it won't matter if it is non-human, the TOS talks about 'presenting as a child', so would an avatar like this (from the marketplace - no negative intent to the creator intended) not qualify as a child avatar because they have ears and tail? Are they okay being nude, because they're 'not human'? Would it be okay to enter adult areas or do behaviour not allowed in the TOS while wearing these avatars?

[tiny image of nude avatar redacted]

 

Again there are specific traits of different age groups that most people would recognize and agree, it's not that bewildering to the general populace.

 

4 hours ago, Arielle Popstar said:

If "child" avatars were prepubescent only, there might be a point but a Child avatar for the purpose of the ToS is any that have a look that is between 1-18. That is pretty much 50% of the female avatar population of the grid. And with 50% of the females gone, how many of the males you think will bother returning?

I posted this earlier with convo with Jaylin:

How your avatar 'presents' and most importantly what one would be doing with it, would be a deciding factor if something untoward is going on.

Yes 'child' can define the age group you speak of, but in general 'child' means a specific age group, and pointedly (not maturely developed) vs a teen who may or may not be maturely developed (and then the law steps in about consent and all that).

1 hour ago, ErwinVonVlotho said:

It's not irrelevant at all. LL gave you an adult body. You chose to turn it into a non-compliant child one. That isn't LL's fault; it's yours.

Look at it this way: I can go to a shop and buy a spoon. In fact I've bought lots of spoons; I keep them in a drawer in my kitchen, with knives and forks and other things, and take them out to eat food with. However I could also take one out, use my grinder to sharpen the handle, then embed it in someone's liver.

There were no terms of service on the box of spoons telling me I'm not allowed to turn a spoon into a shank - but nevertheless, if I do so it is not in any way The Big Spoon Company's fault; it is entirely mine. Ditto modifying the default adult body into a non-compliant child one. If you choose to modify something legal into something illegal it's on you, not the supplier.

Of course there are those on SL who will say to the judge "Well technically, your honor, it's not a knife, it was a spoon, so how can I stab someone with a spoon" and play dumb of any wrongdoing, skirting the rules, or outright breaking them

Edited May 8 by Quartz Mole

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

think the distraction there is: Any talk about non-human avatars is NOT relevant. 

the talk about furry cub play is very relevant and I will be bringing that up with governance tomorrow

[BilliJo Aldrin]

22 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Nope wrong one, but good effort.

*tries again….. ooo my little unicorn t-shirt*

But….. if i bought it and wore it, combined with my short height, would i be considered underage?

*passes on the hello kitty pjs*

[Madi Melodious]

1 hour ago, Kathlen Onyx said:

What gives you the idea that people that have Child avi's don't spend a lot of money? Trust me, the way some of these kids are decked out with their clothes and animations and gestures...they spend a lot of money.

We do.  We are a very large part of the economy in SL.  My costs to the lab a year are close to $1500 directly, account and sim costs.  I know one child AV that has close to a dozen sims, yo can do that math.   If we were not a large part of the Labs income, I doubt we would still be here. 

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

LL ToS clearly states they can scr*w any of us over, with our inventory, at any time, with NO compensation at all. That's one of the first things anyone should realise in SL, they pull the plug and its over, no payback.

It is indeed confusing that people don't realize that.

Folks: Follow the TOS!  If you do, everything should be fine.

Is there a reason to be concerned about the new TOS that we haven't discussed? Probably. People just need to dig deep for ideas that haven't been discussed yet.