ErwinVonVlotho Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 4 minutes ago, Youri Ashton said: If you happen to be nude in your own home in order to change clothes or figure out what outfit you might want. But you won't be nude, because you'll have your modesty layer on. That will protect you from anyone trying to make a fraudulent AR against you. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ErwinVonVlotho said: 7 minutes ago, Youri Ashton said: If you happen to be nude in your own home in order to change clothes or figure out what outfit you might want. But you won't be nude, because you'll have your modesty layer on. That will protect you from anyone trying to make a fraudulent AR against you. At some point, child / teen avatars will need to "change clothes". If they are not / cannot use the new "modesty layers" due to their body etc. then, as I believe @Rowan Amore suggested earlier in the thread, they would need to change clothing in a specific order so as to "never be naked": Add the new clothing, then remove the old clothing. (Hope I got that right.) Edited May 7 by Love Zhaoying 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: "Free-balling" is a colloquial/slang term meaning, "without underwear" (applied to males). Not to be confused with "Freefallin" by Tom Petty (RIP)! On a more topic-related note do we have any previews of what the new modesty panels are meant to look like yet? Edited May 7 by Fluffy Sharkfin typo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Someone (not sure who) did recently bring up the "changing clothes" aspect. At some point, child / teen avatars will need to "change clothes". If they are not / cannot use the new "modesty layers" due to their body etc. then, as I believe @Rowan Amore suggested earlier in the thread, they would need to change clothing in a specific order so as to "never be naked": Add the new clothing, then remove the old clothing. (Hope I got that right.) Adding clothing first before removing old items of clothing is just part and parcel of being a kid avatar. I'm surprised people don't do that? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErwinVonVlotho Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: At some point, child / teen avatars will need to "change clothes". If they are not / cannot use the new "modesty layers" due to their body etc. then, as I believe @Rowan Amore suggested earlier in the thread, they would need to change clothing in a specific order so as to "never be naked": Add the new clothing, then remove the old clothing. (Hope I got that right.) As I understand it, not using the modesty layers isn't going to be an option. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: Someone (not sure who) did recently bring up the "changing clothes" aspect. At some point, child / teen avatars will need to "change clothes". If they are not / cannot use the new "modesty layers" due to their body etc. then, as I believe @Rowan Amore suggested earlier in the thread, they would need to change clothing in a specific order so as to "never be naked": Add the new clothing, then remove the old clothing. (Hope I got that right.) IF I were trying to change in public, which I rarely do, I'd either toss on some BoM undies first or simply put on the new before taking off the old. Sometimes works and sometimes not depending on if the items have auto hide. That's why I prefer doing all that at home. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: IF I were trying to change in public, which I rarely do, I'd either toss on some BoM undies first or simply put on the new before taking off the old. Sometimes works and sometimes not depending on if the items have auto hide. That's why I prefer doing all that at home. I was referring to changing in private, so I guess- if you KNOW noone is around, it should be safe to change in private at home without going through all those steps (add new, remove old). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, Fluffy Sharkfin said: Not to be confused with "Freefallin" by Tom Petty (RIP)! On a more topic-related note do we have and previews of what the new modesty panels are meant to look like yet? No, the last time we discussed the issue we were debating how they might look. We basically agreed that the layer should be significant enough to prevent extremely skimpy items of clothing like g-strings, thongs and thin bikinis etc, but not so long that it breaks ballet leotards, babies onsies and ordinary swimwear that is already modest etc. We agreed that for the lower part a full brief would be best since that would be unisex for both boys and girls, and that both boys and girls might have to wear some sort of tube vest around the chest area (child avis all use the same avatar so there is no real way to distinguish between boys and girls at the avatar level). 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 4 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: Adding clothing first before removing old items of clothing is just part and parcel of being a kid avatar. I'm surprised people don't do that? Maybe only kids need to worry about it, is my honest answer. Of course, you can't do it in RL so it may not occur to a lot of people to do it that way. In the context of SL, if you do it that way, nobody would know if somehow you forgot your modesty layer (or it "broke" or whatever). Just an idea.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Just now, brodiac90 said: No, the last time we discussed the issue we were debating how they might look. We basically agreed that the layer should be significant enough to prevent extremely skimpy items of clothing like g-strings, thongs and thin bikinis etc, but not so long that it breaks ballet leotards, babies onsies and ordinary swimwear that is already modest etc. We agreed that for the lower part a full brief would be best since that would be unisex for both boys and girls, and that both boys and girls might have to wear some sort of tube vest around the chest area (child avis all use the same avatar so there is no real way to distinguish between boys and girls at the avatar level). Thanks, it would help to have some idea of what's expected in order to work out how we could accommodate existing content so residents lose as little of their inventory as possible while ensuring all of it can be worn in a way that complies with the TOS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 7 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: At some point, child / teen avatars will need to "change clothes". If they are not / cannot use the new "modesty layers" due to their body etc. then, as I believe @Rowan Amore suggested earlier in the thread, they would need to change clothing in a specific order so as to "never be naked": Add the new clothing, then remove the old clothing. (Hope I got that right.) In theory. The theory is dust once that child Avi is rich enough to pay for an own parcel where it can change, knows how to erect privacy and ban lines and/or an instantly kicking security orb. Hehe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denim Robonaught Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 6 minutes ago, brodiac90 said: Adding clothing first before removing old items of clothing is just part and parcel of being a kid avatar. I'm surprised people don't do that? My kids used wardrobe with RLV 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pancake Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Lets hope @Linden Lab @Keira Linden check the actual assets against screenshots included with abuse reports. Cache poisoning and texture substitution are a thing. You might not be naked. But that's doesn't stop someone making you naked with a little effort. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said: It's a deeply subjective term, it does not have an agreed up, codified in the rules meaning. You say subjective, but we have an objective definition: sexualize which refers to sexual . How are these words subjective, not agreed upon, and why would LL have to define it in their TOS, since the words are already defined. Not busting your *****s, you're just disappointing me with this. to make sexual : endow with a sexual character or cast make sexy: adorning with provocative and adult dress Edited May 7 by Codex Alpha Sigh, gotta spell it out for people :-( 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) There is nothing in the rules that specifically says child avatars must wear modesty panels. They just can't be naked. Creators of child specific bodies and skin must include those modesty panels. Even in the FAQs, it's kind of ambiguous Q: I already have a child avatar that does not have a built in modesty layer. Can I still use that since I purchased it already? A: No. Going forward, child avatars will be prohibited from being fully nude. Why did they not just answer...No, going forward, child avatars must have a modesty panel. One of those things that they'll need to clarify since THE major issue for most. ETA..from the actual policy page and what child avatars are prohibited from doing... Being fully nude. Child avatar content creators are required to add a modesty layer which is baked into child avatar skins or bodies, is not transparent, does not match the skin tone, and may not be removed. Edited May 7 by Rowan Amore 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: Thanks, it would help to have some idea of what's expected in order to work out how we could accommodate existing content so residents lose as little of their inventory as possible while ensuring all of it can be worn in a way that complies with the TOS. LL have stated they are going to release guidance on the modesty layers soon which is what sparked our original debate into how they might look so they could consider issues like breaking exisiting items of clothing. Some like the thongs etc need to be broken, but others are perfectly innocent and shouldn't be. Edited May 7 by brodiac90 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Denim Robonaught said: My kids used wardrobe with RLV .nostrip 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brodiac90 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 minutes ago, Denim Robonaught said: My kids used wardrobe with RLV You can get ones that don't take off clothes first before repalcing. I use CTS Wardrobe and you can customise the process. I tend to put on my new items of clothing individually (it's set up to be mix and match) and then once I know everything is in place I can take off the parts I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffy Sharkfin Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Codex Alpha said: You say subjective, but we have an objective definition: sexualize which refers to sexual . How are these words subjective, not agreed upon, and why would LL have to define it in their TOS, since the words are already defined. Not busting your *****s, you're just disappointing me with this. I'd say it's a deeply subjective term since we're all individuals and while one person may consider something sexual for whatever reason another might not associate with sex at all. If there was a collective agreement on what is or isn't sexual then we wouldn't have kinks. I used the word when speaking about my personal opinion but I'd hope that LL would be a lot more specific when wording the TOS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: There is nothing in the rules that specifically says child avatars must wear modesty panels. They just can't be naked. Creators of child specific bodies and skin must include those modesty panels. Even in the FAQs, it's kind of ambiguous Q: I already have a child avatar that does not have a built in modesty layer. Can I still use that since I purchased it already? A: No. Going forward, child avatars will be prohibited from being fully nude. Why did they not just answer...No, going forward, child avatars must have a modesty panel. One of those things that they'll need to clarify since THE major issue for most. No, it's covered, please read https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay Residents presenting as Child Avatars shall be prohibited from the following: Being fully nude. Child avatar content creators are required to add a modesty layer which is baked into child avatar skins or bodies, is not transparent, does not match the skin tone, and may not be removed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivienne Schell Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: a modesty panel. One of those things that they'll need to clarify since THE major issue for most. If it would not be that it would be something else. Language never can be 100 percent bulletproof. See "militia" in the American constitution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madi Melodious Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 hour ago, Vivienne Schell said: Aha. So what is your suggestion then? Ban child avatars completely? Still won't change a thing, other than deprive them of a source of revenue. The bad guys will still do the exact same thing but now they will just stick to private sims. So, unless the lab wants to stick a linden in every sim on the grid 24/7, my point still stands. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 minute ago, Codex Alpha said: No, it's covered, please read https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Clarification_of_policy_disallowing_ageplay Residents presenting as Child Avatars shall be prohibited from the following: Being fully nude. Child avatar content creators are required to add a modesty layer which is baked into child avatar skins or bodies, is not transparent, does not match the skin tone, and may not be removed. Yes. Being fully naked. The next part is for content creators regarding modesty panels. No where does it say...child avatar must wear a specific skin or body or use the modesty panels. They just can't be naked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codex Alpha Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Fluffy Sharkfin said: I'd say it's a deeply subjective term since we're all individuals and while one person may consider something sexual for whatever reason another might not associate with sex at all. If there was a collective agreement on what is or isn't sexual then we wouldn't have kinks. I used the word when speaking about my personal opinion but I'd hope that LL would be a lot more specific when wording the TOS. Im sorry this is so confusing for people. I believe what you are saying is an exception to the rule, and arguing it. But in general everyone knows what sexualization means, and if they don't they need to look it up, sorry. For some to gaslight me and others on these words and others is really mind-snapping, and perhaps that is part of their game. That I and others are the crazy ones... you know how that works.. Edited May 7 by Codex Alpha 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanVox Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 It would be good practice to just alpha out the chest and pelvis in addition to the modesty layers, that way no one can ever see those areas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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