So what changed in the Terms of Service?

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

If they are leashed, that is really sexual activity in public and isnt allowed on an M sim. Next time AR them if itbothetd you

That's not sexual. It prevents me from getting lost!

[Chery Amore]

4 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

Keeping things on topic - what do people think the modesty layers should be? It was mentioned much earlier in the thread but didn't really get much traction other than everyone agreeing that LL needed to clarify things and set very clear expectations and examples for creators. We know they will be releasing guidance soon so maybe a deeper discussion would be beneficial? 

I personally think the most practical solution would be brief style underwear and a vest style tank top for both boys and girls. Briefs because both boys and girls wear them so it would be unisex and because it would be much easier to implement and police. 

It would mean boys wouldnt be able to be topless at the beach etc but I don't know how you implement it in any other meaningful way considering there aren't really boy or girl avatars for this age range - they're just all female bodies. 

What do people think? 

 I think it should be like bikini bottoms for both or even just coverings for those areas.  For the top .. since it has to be something small like a bandeau bikini but just in the front maybe?  The line across the back would be problematic for all kinds of wear.. like leotards.

Personally for infants and children I wish there wasn't  a required top layer.  I think I know why they are doing it though .. because girls become tweens and teens and then it becomes a problem. So maybe they feel like they have to do it like that for anyone underage.

[brodiac90]

4 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Thanks for trying to get things on topic.

My own preference would be "briefs" style lower underwear, and "tube top" (band around the chest) style top underwear.

On the lower underwear: Don't want it "too small" or people can simulate "thongs", etc.

On the top underwear: I suggested a "tube top" style because that way, it would show even if someone wore a shirt with "no sides" (such as a cut-up t-shirt with no arms and open sides).

 

Yes, although you don't want a t-shirt style as that would break tank top mesh or any t-shirt which had shorter arms. 

Similarly boxer style underwear would break a lot of ballet leotards, babies onesie and even some swimwear - breaking the thong style swimwear is actually a good thing come to think of it. 

So ideally we want something people can look at and go, yep that's reasonable, but nothing so extreme it breaks everything. 

[Qie Niangao]

1 minute ago, brodiac90 said:

Keeping things on topic - what do people think the modesty layers should be?

I think they should be required on all new child avatar skins as of June 30th, not skin tone (but see below) and otherwise uniform surface on all Materials maps if any.

And that's it. No requirement that anybody wear them unless they buy new skins. Instead, stick with the simple requirement that child avatars are prohibited from being fully nude. So it's up to the child avatar to make sure that happens (because practically speaking, no "baked in" texture will make sure it happens anyway).

I might elaborate on that "fully nude" thing to specify neither breast nor crotch anatomy is explicitly represented, or something like that. Too bad for boys (really, it kinda sucks) but I don't see a responsible way around it.

Now, about skin tone. Just as this question was posed I was about to search the thread for "skin tone" to see if it's an old topic I missed along the way. That's because I don't think I understand why having non-matching patches is better than having Ken & Barbie uniformity. Could it be to incentivize child avatars to wear clothes covering the patches instead of maybe just leaving the blank areas exposed and that would be too much like being nude?

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

 

Plus, the changes apparently protect the "rights" of innocent child avatars!

 

But not the right to pick your own underwear...

[BilliJo Aldrin]

4 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

That is how I see it too. I maintain they are trying to hide anything that might trigger a pedo but as i pointed out in other posts, that is next to impossible unless one is also wearing a facemask or burka.

lets not forget, as i’ve mentioned before, at least some of the time the pedo IS the child

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

That's not sexual. It prevents me from getting lost!

lol an invisible leash or using the follow command will do the same thing and not trigger an AR from someone.

 

[Starberry Passion]

Went to go check, Purchase of Age Verification was 6$

A.P was sold one time at 20$

You used your Credit Card, so your info would be there because you have proof you're of age through that.

Idk how this will help Second life Because people already complain about second life being expensive

and adults having to to give another 26$ and some of us pay a tier and have premium+ ontop of that

and there are some people who pay 400$ a month for a sim, that's more money... Would be fine if the economy was better but everything is really expensive, so idk how it'll help Child Avatars or Adult Avatars.

[Arielle Popstar]

Just now, BilliJo Aldrin said:

lets not forget, as i’ve mentioned before, at least some of the time the pedo IS the child

Well as I've posted before, i'd wager it is a lot less then you think and even then, it started with an adult and the child then carried on looking for Love in all the wrong places because it was easy.

[brodiac90]

3 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

Went to go check, Purchase of Age Verification was 6$

A.P was sold one time at 20$

You used your Credit Card, so your info would be there because you have proof you're of age through that.

Idk how this will help Second life Because people already complain about second life being expensive

and adults having to to give another 26$ and some of us pay a tier and have premium+ ontop of that

and there are some people who pay 400$ a month for a sim, that's more money... Would be fine if the economy was better but everything is really expensive, so idk how it'll help Child Avatars or Adult Avatars.

Someone else, I forget now, suggested the idea of a child avatar account that you had to subscribe to like premium so that all your info would be on file. 

Edited May 7 by brodiac90

[Coffee Pancake]

8 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

That's not sexual. It prevents me from getting lost!

Legit.

Many times over the years the fastest route to a someone on a "leash" has been a garbage PC and shopping event.

[Arielle Popstar]

2 minutes ago, Starberry Passion said:

Went to go check, Purchase of Age Verification was 6$

A.P was sold one time at 20$

You used your Credit Card, so your info would be there because you have proof you're of age through that.

Idk how this will help Second life Because people already complain about second life being expensive

and adults having to to give another 26$ and some of us pay a tier and have premium+ ontop of that

and there are some people who pay 400$ a month for a sim, that's more money... Would be fine if the economy was better but everything is really expensive, so idk how it'll help Child Avatars or Adult Avatars.

Oh you got it cheaper then me! I think I paid like $10 or $15. I didn't have credit cards back then which is why I am thinking I used a copy of my photo ID license. But that is so long ago I don't rightly recall.

10-20 dollar on age verification would be a lot more reasonable then the $45 they charge for a simple name change. A sim is out of my price range and I couldn't justify it since my RL mortgage is less! I just settle for running a server for my own sims and come to SL... or used to, to visit the BIG City.

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

So ideally we want something people can look at and go, yep that's reasonable, but nothing so extreme it breaks everything. 

I think my choice of "tube top" is because you can always tell if someone is wearing it, if any surrounding skin is showing. Sorry, that was hard to explain.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Legit.

Many times over the years the fastest route to a someone on a "leash" has been a garbage PC and shopping event.

To be fair, I've done that when shopping with a friend with a faster pc than mine, and also it made it easier to stay together as we toured the event, but also to be fair, I wasn't naked and I used the invisible "follow" option, not visible "leash".

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

Someone else, I forget now, suggested the idea of a child avatar account that you had to subscribe to like premium so that all your info would be on file. 

Wow, that certainly conflates the "child avatar" vs. "young RL user", and puts the burden on the "RL user"!

This would make more sense to me if we had a "Teen Grid" or needed specific information for anyone in the youngest allowed age group.

Requiring it only for "child avatars" just feels wrong somehow.  Like a "sex offender registry" when there has been no offense, let alone conviction.

 

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

and the child then carried on looking for Love in all the wrong places because it was easy.

The child is still an adult.  In a few of your posts, you've alluded to this.  It's really rather disturbing, tbh.  You're basically saying the child 'accidently' became involved in AP roleplay?  Those posts are doing more harm than good, IMO.   Adults playing as children don't get a pass regardless of their reasons for playing as a child.  It's almost like saying because I accepted a dance from someone and they started making inappropriate advances, that I was then violated because I enjoyed the attention.  Personal responsibility.   I'd step away.  I can't AR because THAT isn't against the rules.  Making advances on a child avatar IS a violation.

 

 

[Starberry Passion]

1 minute ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Oh you got it cheaper then me! I think I paid like $10 or $15. I didn't have credit cards back then which is why I am thinking I used a copy of my photo ID license. But that is so long ago I don't rightly recall.

10-20 dollar on age verification would be a lot more reasonable then the $45 they charge for a simple name change. A sim is out of my price range and I couldn't justify it since my RL mortgage is less! I just settle for running a server for my own sims and come to SL... or used to, to visit the BIG City.

I know a lot of people who is a Maitreya that want to try Legacy and they say Legacy is too expensive 5000 or 5,500L$? That's like 22.27$ or 24.49$ People don't even want to spend 25$ for the body they want, I don't see people buying AP and A.V. Ontop  charging L and or paying a premium every month and if they're paying for a sim every month.

[Love Zhaoying]

13 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

But not the right to pick your own underwear...

That is an interesting observation, but I fully assume - and have no reason to believe otherwise - that if underwear completely covers the "modesty layer", that is OK.

Similar to how any "outer garments" would also cover the "modesty layer".

 

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I used the invisible "follow" option, not visible "leash".

And also to be fair, the visual is all LL is concerned with in regards to the new rules.

[Love Zhaoying]

11 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Well as I've posted before, i'd wager it is a lot less then you think and even then, it started with an adult and the child then carried on looking for Love in all the wrong places because it was easy.

* packs my bags, and prepares to hide *

[Grayson Blakewell]

11 minutes ago, brodiac90 said:

Someone else, I forget now, suggested the idea of a child avatar account that you had to subscribe to like premium so that all your info would be on file. 

Super Idea, although accountability should be with all who sign up. VRchat have a very good policy on trolling and accountability and most games have a system where a legitimate email has to be given to download the client (and any additional items you need have to be placed with payment on file). That way you have a system who instantly blocks people who are banned or break the rules by getting around the system. 

Edited May 7 by Grayson Blakewell

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Legit.

Many times over the years the fastest route to a someone on a "leash" has been a garbage PC and shopping event.

Yes my partner would leash me especially when I was on mobile and couldn't be paying full attention and it made it easier to keep up with her when going through an event.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

5 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

I used the invisible "follow" option, not visible "leash".

And also to be fair, the visual is all LL is concerned with in regards to the new rules.

Ironically, "keeping kids on a leash" is a real thing.

[Honey Puddles]

Just gonna drop this here: Second Life Feedback: Append [G][M][A] Maturity Rating indicators to slurls rendered in IMs, Chat, Dialogs, Group Notices, etc.

Edited May 7 by Honey Puddles

[brodiac90]

14 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

 it be to incentivize child avatars to wear clothes covering the patches instead of maybe just leaving the blank areas exposed and that would be too much like being nude?

I think so, for example, if boys have a chest modesty layer then I suspect you will see boys on the beach or at pools wearing those swimsuit material UV / surfer top rash vests from now on to hide the modesty layer. Not through anything malicious but because we don't all want to look like clones.