Land Sales Crash

[Eowyn Southmoor]

Horizons parcels are double-prim parcels - i'd say that's one reason why they are highly valued.  

[BilliJo Aldrin]

11 hours ago, Gabriele Graves said:

@elleevelyn It's not clear to me how any of what you propose is going to "fix" mainland or even differentiate itself as mainland 2.0.  Fixed size parcels are already in parts of mainland.  The rest just looks like more of the same unless you are also including the idea of a covenant would be the real game changer and if you are going to do that you might as well just make mainland 2.0 as BYO Belli, especially as adult was ruled out it seems.

BYO Belli: It seems, at least on this forum, some people would like a place that is Bellisseria but with empty plots of various sizes to plonk down a house.  That idea might sell to some but is fraught with additional issues Bellisseria doesn't have just by allowing user's own builds on it.  Bellisseria is relatively low maintenance for LL exactly because you aren't suppose to plonk down dwellings, make huge builds or anything that might extend the existing buildings, at least upwards, it's just for decorating a home and garden.  This makes it easy for governance because the rules are clearer for users and it removes a lot of ambiguity of whether something crosses that line.

Once you allow user dwellings/builds however it becomes way more murky and results in a governance nightmare for all kinds of reasons starting from but not limited to consistency of styles, height, whether it's a ground dwelling or qualifies as a skybox just because someone made it float a metre off the ground.

For that reason I would be surprised if LL were keen on BYO Belli.

So you have two choices, totally restricted Belli, and totally wide open mainland. Common sense would suggest that if something between those two extremes was offered,it might attract dis satisfied owners from both sides.

What would it hurt if LL set out a dozen sims just to guage the response.

Either as get one free per customer with selling disabled, like LL homes,or buy as many as you want for $1 L per sq m. with the ability then to resell them. 

Either way, cutting or combining parcels is disabled, and there are a few basic rules.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

So you have two choices, totally restricted Belli, and totally wide open mainland.

You don't consider "private region" land a "choice"?

[Zalificent Corvinus]

2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

There's something interesting about the English language - different words have different meanings, which means they can't be exchanged willy-nilly.

Ah! I see the source of your confusion.

You think these people are, what was that expression you used, oh yes, "someone who just happened to accidentally cross an unmarked boundary", which is not in fact, the case.

You see, if they were "accidental and completely innocent explorers", their poor little toes would NEVER touch a blade of my grass, because I have BAN-LINES, which prevent their toes ever touching my grass at all, without doing anything bad to the poor little toes.

 

But, when, in a fit of incoherent rage, at being denied entry to a PRIVATE HOME owned by strangers, they ignore the OBVIOUS ban-line marked boundary attempt to CIRCUMVENT the ban-lines by flying up and over the top, then they STOP being "accidental and completely innocent explorers, and become "habitual repeat offending criminal trespasser trash".

Even then, you have to DELIBERATELY intrude more than 2m past the CLEARLY MARKED boundary, before the Orb deals with them, which certainly rules out any "accidental & completely innocent" notions.

Then they get punt kicked back to where ever they came from, added to the parcel blackk list, and, if they violate the LL ToS by harassing me to complain and demand things they are not entitled to, Abuse Reported and muted/derendered.

The best thing about this is that a parcel blacklist prevents them ever "accidentally and completely innocently" trespassing on my parcel EVER AGAIN.

A one time cure, good for me, I don't get harassed in my home by griefer trash, good for them, they learned a valuable lesson.

Best way NOT to get punted and banned for criminal trespass is, don't deliberately commit criminal trespass.

"If you can't to the time, don't do the crime"

 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

34 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

You don't consider "private region" land a "choice"?

It’s not a choice for a premium member that is paying for a premium membership so that they can own land on a Linden Lab region

Edited January 16 by BilliJo Aldrin
fixed stuff, changed live to own land

[Theresa Tennyson]

5 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Ah! I see the source of your confusion.

You think these people are, what was that expression you used, oh yes, "someone who just happened to accidentally cross an unmarked boundary", which is not in fact, the case.

You see, if they were "accidental and completely innocent explorers", their poor little toes would NEVER touch a blade of my grass, because I have BAN-LINES, which prevent their toes ever touching my grass at all, without doing anything bad to the poor little toes.

 

 

There's another surprising quality of everyday life - everything isn't about you.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Theresa Tennyson said:

There's another surprising quality of everyday life - everything isn't about you.

I almost have compassion for Zal in these discussions, because she is fairly obviously triggered by them.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

59 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

There's another surprising quality of everyday life - everything isn't about you.

Again your comprehension has failed.

In my home RL, or SL, "quality of everyday life" IS about me, because it's MY home, not theirs, and not about the over-entitled demands of habitual criminals. If I want to relax alone or with invited friends, that is MY choice, and would-be intruders get NO say in that.

If they want a "public access parcel" they can BUY one.

 

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

almost have compassion for Zal in these discussions, because she is fairly obviously triggered by them.

What can I say?

I'm offended by over-entitled trash demanding their non-constitutional un-right to commit criminal trespass in my private space simply because they are arrogant middle class suburban failed hippie wannabes who dream of a "world free of OTHER people's property".

 

That whole "What's mine is mine and what's YOUR'S is MINE too" thing, AND the whole "Let's defend the ToS violating harassment offenders who claim that property is theft, and they should be allowed to trespass if they promise not to look" thing.

 

If trash want to control who comes and goes on MY parcel, they should BUY it from me. Once they own it they can do what they want. While I own it, they can't.

 

[Persephone Emerald]

3 hours ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

Horizons parcels are double-prim parcels - i'd say that's one reason why they are highly valued.  

Aren't Bellisseria parcels essentially double prim too, since the houses and controllers don't count against one's alloted land impact? Then we have fencing, hedges, and other landscaping that is also free.

[Eowyn Southmoor]

24 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Aren't Bellisseria parcels essentially double prim too, since the houses and controllers don't count against one's alloted land impact? Then we have fencing, hedges, and other landscaping that is also free.

That's not quite the same thing. Not having to rez your own house probably saves you 50-70 LI.  Not sure there is any saving with landscaping because none of the LL landscaping is within your parcel borders, so you still need to rez your own trees, grass etc - otherwise it looks a bit empty.  

So whilst it definitely frees up some prims (and no doubt thats part of the attraction to Bellisseria too), its not the same as having 702 LI to use.

[Rowan Amore]

2 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

paying for a premium membership so that they can own land on a Linden Lab region

I really wonder what percentage of people actually go premium to own mainland.  Not one single person I know who is premium has any interest whatsoever with owning any mainland.  A couple do have homes in Belli, though.  

I went premium almost from the start for the extra group slots and live support.   Back then, too it was a little 512 parcel for free and who would even bother with that?  

[Rowan Amore]

54 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

Aren't Bellisseria parcels essentially double prim too, since the houses and controllers don't count against one's alloted land impact? Then we have fencing, hedges, and other landscaping that is also free.

There are homes available to rez in Horizons if you choose just like in Belli.  The difference is we don't HAVE to use them.  There is also a content pack that comes with it although I don't think I've ever used anything included in it.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

11 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I really wonder what percentage of people actually go premium to own mainland.  Not one single person I know who is premium has any interest whatsoever with owning any mainland.  A couple do have homes in Belli, though.  

I went premium almost from the start for the extra group slots and live support.   Back then, too it was a little 512 parcel for free and who would even bother with that?  

You can do a lot on a 512. Bigger isn’t always better. 

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I almost have compassion for Zal in these discussions, because she is fairly obviously triggered by them.

 

Doesn't the concept of "triggering" imply a change of state?

[Love Zhaoying]

16 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Doesn't the concept of "triggering" imply a change of state?

I suppose someone who is "always angry" can become "more angry" at times, see: "Migraine Boy".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Migraine_Boy

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

That's not quite the same thing. Not having to rez your own house probably saves you 50-70 LI.  Not sure there is any saving with landscaping because none of the LL landscaping is within your parcel borders, so you still need to rez your own trees, grass etc - otherwise it looks a bit empty.  

So whilst it definitely frees up some prims (and no doubt thats part of the attraction to Bellisseria too), its not the same as having 702 LI to use.

While one could find and buy a 50 Li house, the houses in Bellisseria probably average around 300 Li.  I think my Shelly Victorian is over 340 Li.

Edited January 16 by Persephone Emerald

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Not one single person I know who is premium has any interest whatsoever with owning any mainland. 

* raises paw * Me! 

I know a few other Forum users are supposebly my neighbors too (but don't know if they rent or own).

[Persephone Emerald]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

I really wonder what percentage of people actually go premium to own mainland.  Not one single person I know who is premium has any interest whatsoever with owning any mainland.  A couple do have homes in Belli, though.  

I went premium almost from the start for the extra group slots and live support.   Back then, too it was a little 512 parcel for free and who would even bother with that?  

Before Bellisseria, and especially before the original Linden Homes, most people went Premium so they could own land. I've had mainland on 3 different continents and rented out parcels on 2 of those land holdings. I had over a quarter region the first 2 times, shared with others. My last land was on Heterocera a few years ago, which I sold to a neighbor. Owning mainland can be very rewarding if you enjoy landscaping it. Finances and boredom just gave me reasons to try Bellisseria.

p.s.

Obviously, there is mainland owned by people who went Premium. There are also obviously many people who rent from mainland land holders and estate owners. Those of us who shop or do roleplay might need more groups, but not everyone does.

How many groups did Basic accounts get before? I can only remember having 42 as a Premium member.

Edited January 16 by Persephone Emerald
changed "everyone" to "most people" & added p.s.

[Rowan Amore]

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

* raises paw * Me! 

I know a few other Forum users are supposebly my neighbors too (but don't know if they rent or own).

Over the years, none of the people I was friends with, who were premium owned any mainland.  When the first Linden homes came out, a few people grabbed one of those but didn't stay long IIRC.  Almost every single premium person I've know has rented on a private estate.   That's a whole lot of people.

Edited January 16 by Rowan Amore

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

Almost every single premium person I've know has rented on a private estate.

I'll have to look into the advantages someday. I've OWNED a private estate, but never rented part of one.

[Rowan Amore]

16 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

most people went Premium so they could own land

No one I knew did that.  

IIRC, wasn't it 20 groups for basic?  It's been so long now.  

[Gabriele Graves]

6 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

So you have two choices, totally restricted Belli, and totally wide open mainland. Common sense would suggest that if something between those two extremes was offered,it might attract dis satisfied owners from both sides.

That sounds fine on paper but that approach doesn't work well for everything.  Sometimes it's just a common sense fallacy.

[Cinnamon Mistwood]

I don't know about Belli 2.0, but I would be willing to own more mainland if the only rule was "no floating builds under 1000m, and public air travel between 300m and 999m"  that allows for people who want towers and skyscrapers.  Anything rezzed between 300m and 999m could be returned by anyone because it is a public travel area. (I am sure this can be abused too)

I know some will still put up a low skybox and tether it to the ground with a pipe saying "but it's not floating!" 

Being able to build what you want on the ground without having to stay in a theme should be maintained. Being allowed to secure your land in any way you want should be maintained. 

Edited January 16 by Cinnamon Mistwood

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Cinnamon Mistwood said:

I don't know about Belli 2.0, but I would be willing to own more mainland if the only rule was "no floating builds under 1000m, and public air travel between 300m and 999m"  that allows for people who want towers and skyscrapers.  Anything rezzed between 300m and 999m could be returned by anyone because it is a public travel area. (I am sure this can be abused too)

I guess a few reasons I'm so happy is, 2X prims, bordering on protected land looking out over water, so I don't HAVE to see other people's crap with a sufficiently short draw distance (if I look mostly in the direction across the water).

 

[Sid Nagy]

On 1/13/2024 at 8:43 PM, Prokofy Neva said:

It makes no sense to rent Anshe land and re-rent it when you could get your own island and completely control it and not worry about that business suddenly leaving SL -- unlikely, but it does happen.

If ACS charges so little that you in fact save the cost of your own start-up, they should review their pricing because they are merely foolishly enabling competitors on their own sims.

If one has to fork up an aditional 21% VAT (when from my country) the story becomes different I guess, then a sim lease from ACS or other baron becomes a serious option.

Edited January 16 by Sid Nagy