Land Sales Crash

[elleevelyn]

4 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

returning objects is a separate script function, and most orbs don't seem to do that.

this is true of many orbs which are focused only agent intruders

a orb that returns the intruder's objects gives more flexibility in parcel settings. For example return all objects of agents not on orb whitelist

[Clem Marques]

20 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

this is true of many orbs which are focused only agent intruders

a orb that returns the intruder's objects gives more flexibility in parcel settings. For example return all objects of agents not on orb whitelist

I didn't know some orbs have that ability. That's interesting.

Edited January 20 by Clem Marques

[Innula Zenovka]

I have a question.   According to the wiki,

Quote

Ban lines are limited to a height of 5000 m above the terrain mesh when you're explicitly banned from the land. If the parcel is simply not pubic access or restricted to certain Residents/groups, then the lines go up to 50 m above the terrain mesh.

If you're flying, and encounter a parcel that's not set to public access, at what altitude do the ban lines cease to be visible?   Or is that determned by your draw distance?

[elleevelyn]

32 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

If you're flying, and encounter a parcel that's not set to public access, at what altitude do the ban lines cease to be visible?   Or is that determned by your draw distance?

the ban box for no access or group only access is upto 50 meters above the terrain. Other people, not the owner or not in group, can flyover the ban box without restriction

we only see banline tape above 50 meters when we are explicitly on the parcel ban list

[Innula Zenovka]

19 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

the ban box for no access or group only access is upto 50 meters above the terrain. Other people, not the owner or not in group, can flyover the ban box without restriction

we only see banline tape above 50 meters when we are explicitly on the parcel ban list

So if I'm flying at 75 or 100 metres above the ground, are you saying that I won't know whether or not I'm allowed to fly over the parcel unless a security orb tells me to go away (or kicks me out)? 

[Eowyn Southmoor]

52 minutes ago, Innula Zenovka said:

So if I'm flying at 75 or 100 metres above the ground, are you saying that I won't know whether or not I'm allowed to fly over the parcel unless a security orb tells me to go away (or kicks me out)? 

Correct, at least partially.  Your draw distance is probably high enough so that the ban lines will appear for you just as you're about to fly right over the top of them.

Ideally, as has been mentioned before, banlines need to always go up to 5000m - this would make the need for orbs redundant in many cases. In theory, it would also help if Banlines were visible from 100m away so they can be avoided in time - however this creates a problem where it's going to start and look quite unsightly in places.

Regarding the Belli security system - it doesn't return vehicles as far as i am aware, however "Object Entry" is turned off in all of Bellisseria public areas, which means if you are booted from your vehicle by the security system, your are automatically unseated from your vehicle - as soon as that happens, the no Object Entry setting will return your vehicle.

Edited January 20 by Eowyn Southmoor
typo

[elleevelyn]

3 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

So if I'm flying at 75 or 100 metres above the ground, are you saying that I won't know whether or not I'm allowed to fly over the parcel unless a security orb tells me to go away (or kicks me out)? 

yes thats correct

with menu: Show Banlines on Proximity we see the banline tape when we are within 16meters of the parcel boundary. This distance has always been the case since forever

Linden have recent-ish added Show Banlines on Collision - means we don't see the banline tape til we crash into them. This option suits people who have neighbour parcels with access restricted

there is no option Show Banlines within Draw Distance. This would suit travelers, has been asked for a number of times down the years, but Linden have not provided this yet nor has there been any firm Linden commitment to do so

 

i just want to add on here about the ban box. When we talking about privacy for ourselves when we at home then the ban box is the best way to achieve this combined with Parcel Visibility. Is pre-emptive unlike an orb. Unwanted visitors are prevented from entering the ban box.  And with parcel visibility when we are inside the ban box then anyone over the ban box can't see our avatar either

[elleevelyn]

3 hours ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

if you are booted from your vehicle by the security system, your are automatically unseated from your vehicle - as soon as that happens, the no Object Entry setting will return your vehicle.

if we on a vehicle then we can enter a parcel with Object Entry = Off.  Should we get ejected by an orb then our vehicle is not returned by Object Entry being off. Our vehicle will stay on the parcel til Parcel auto-return kicks in

Object Entry is provided to stop unattended objects from entering a parcel, like bullets, robocars, etc

 

[Eowyn Southmoor]

25 minutes ago, elleevelyn said:

if we on a vehicle then we can enter a parcel with Object Entry = Off.  Should we get ejected by an orb then our vehicle is not returned by Object Entry being off. Our vehicle will stay on the parcel til Parcel auto-return kicks in

Object Entry is provided to stop unattended objects from entering a parcel, like bullets, robocars, etc

 

Yeah I didn't word that in quite the way I should've .  I was referring to a vehicle that's still in public land with object entry set to off, not one that's managed to get half way through someone's parcel, which of course would be subject to the parcel settings.

In Bellisseria for example (since it's been brought up a lot in this thread), Object Entry is set to off on all public areas, which means the moment you become unseated from your vehicle, it gets returned to you within a few seconds.

 

[elleevelyn]

17 minutes ago, Eowyn Southmoor said:

In Bellisseria ... the moment you become unseated from your vehicle, it gets returned to you within a few seconds.

 

yes the Belli public roads/spaces autoreturn is set to 1 minute. Which is pretty quick compared to mainland where is typically 5 minutes

[Qie Niangao]

12 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Idea: If someone intrudes, say "Hi! You've seen my home, let's go show me your place!"

Unpopular opinion: most who intrude probably don't have their own home in Second Life!

and those who get booted probably never will.

(The scary part is how that will be an unpopular opinion, with rection along the lines of: "Those booted intruders will surely want to get their own mainland now, so they'll have somewhere they won't get booted and can instead boot others." And the really scary part is that's exactly correct, too, for just the future landowners who will make Mainland even more of a fire-belching hellhole.)

[Theresa Tennyson]

8 hours ago, Innula Zenovka said:

So if I'm flying at 75 or 100 metres above the ground, are you saying that I won't know whether or not I'm allowed to fly over the parcel unless a security orb tells me to go away (or kicks me out)? 

Realistically, yes. You get very little warning for ban lines generally, even if you have them turned on.

Speaking only for myself,  I don't mind ban lines as long as object entry is also turned off, because it's usually easy enough to get going again when you hit them. In the water it'd be nice to have a buoy or something at the corner of the lot because you can't really see property lines unless you're glued to the mini-map, but they're usually not an issue.

Flying in Second Life is generally similar to the type of real-world flying called "VFR" or "Visual Flight Rules." A pilot's responsibility under them is to "see and avoid." Again personally, I'm fine with your having a zero-warning teleport-home orb that turns me into a rabbit if the scan area is tight to your skybox, because I'll try to avoid hitting the skybox anyway.

What bothers me - and I'm not screaming about it, or calling people griefers about it, but it does bother me - is when I'm suddenly and unexpectedly sent somewhere else when I have no warning that it's going to happen while I'm traveling through open air. I can't avoid something I can't see.

[animats]

21 hours ago, elleevelyn said:

there is no option Show Banlines within Draw Distance.

Now that's a thought. Ban line enforcement is done by the sim servers, but ban line visibility is under the control of the viewer. It comes from the same parcel info the mini-map uses. Ban lines could be shown based on time to impact. If you're within a few seconds of hitting a ban line, show the ban line. That allows time for evasive action.

An elegant solution would be to not show ban lines if there's a visible obstacle closer than the ban line. So if you neighbor has a fence, hedge, or wall, you'd never see their ban line unless you're flying.

[Gabriele Graves]

After all the pointless arguments back and forth again and again. I decide to try and help give a free alternative to the nuclear option zero-second, TP home orb for everyone as my way of giving something back to the community in the hopes that it spreads and makes things better.

I've created a topic about it here: https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/507956-free-graven-hearts-mainland-autoban-system-hopefully-stepping-back-from-the-nuclear-option/

[elleevelyn]

1 hour ago, animats said:

Now that's a thought. Ban line enforcement is done by the sim servers, but ban line visibility is under the control of the viewer. It comes from the same parcel info the mini-map uses. Ban lines could be shown based on time to impact. If you're within a few seconds of hitting a ban line, show the ban line. That allows time for evasive action.

Coffee Pancake talked about this when Catznip minimap was being developed back in the day

paraphrasing Coffee as best I remember, banline info is sent to the viewer only when the agent is within 16 meters of the banline. So the minimap, Catznip and other TPV, can only be updated to show banlines at the same time as they can be shown as inworld tape. This is unlike other parcel info that can be obtained by the viewer within draw distance. The wish is banline info to be available to the viewer at the same time as other parcel info

[Diablo Lioncourt]

Prices are going back up:)

[Love Zhaoying]

24 minutes ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

Prices are going back up:)

Free tip:  Buy low, Sell high!

 

[Clem Marques]

8 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said:

Prices are going back up:)

Finally

[Sid Nagy]

There is so much free land on estates, people on mainland are fooling themselves by still asking (and paying) money for their land IMHO.

Edited March 14 by Sid Nagy

[Qie Niangao]

13 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

There is so much free land on estates, people on mainland are fooling themselves by still asking (and paying) money for their land IMHO.

Am I missing the joke here? Estates haven't stopped charging rent have they?

[Sid Nagy]

32 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Am I missing the joke here? Estates haven't stopped charging rent have they?

I'm talking about land sales. That is the topic here, isn't it?
Rent\tier is not the story. That is inevitable to pay the bills.

[Qie Niangao]

8 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I'm talking about land sales. That is the topic here, isn't it?
Rent\tier is not the story. That is inevitable to pay the bills.

Okay, but estates have almost universally charged only rent for as long at there have been estates.

I mean, it's not surprising we don't have to buy hotel rooms even though folks still buy homes. Or maybe more directly, people still buy condos that are very similar to rental apartments that only charge maybe first and last month deposits up front.

That's not to say rentals and condos don't compete, and estate rentals compete with mainland purchases, too,  but they're very different business arrangements for the resident.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

20 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I'm talking about land sales. That is the topic here, isn't it?
Rent\tier is not the story. That is inevitable to pay the bills.

Thats what ive said all along, if LL would give land away like estates do, cutting out the land flippers, a lot more people would choose mainland over an estate.

Its the fear that a dumpster fire could start next door the day after they pay a flipper thousands that causes many premium members to stick with estates.

 

[Sid Nagy]

 

12 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Okay, but estates have almost universally charged only rent for as long at there have been estates.

When I started in 2007 estate land was not available in unlimited amounts and one had to really buy them from the estate owner. Just like now still is needed from land flippers on mainland.
They really made good money back then with flipping their land multiple times in relative short periods of time.

It was a bit later on, when regions became available instantly from the Lab, that the land buying prices dropped to zero or to a symbolic amount to keep the lunatics "buyers" out.

Edited March 14 by Sid Nagy

[BilliJo Aldrin]

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Okay, but estates have almost universally charged only rent for as long at there have been estates.

I mean, it's not surprising we don't have to buy hotel rooms even though folks still buy homes. Or maybe more directly, people still buy condos that are very similar to rental apartments that only charge maybe first and last month deposits up front.

That's not to say rentals and condos don't compete, and estate rentals compete with mainland purchases, too,  but they're very different business arrangements for the resident.

no , they are the same, you either let LL bill your credit card for tier every month, or you use your credit card to buy Lindens to pay rent to your landlord.

Either way, your credit card statement will say Linden Lab X dollars

stop pretending tier to LL and rent to an estate is something different, because it isn’t

Edited March 14 by BilliJo Aldrin
spelling