clothes designers

[Orwar]

1 hour ago, ValKalAstra said:

Okay - genuine question. What's the thread even about at this point anymore?

   Not sure. Just sort of hoping the argument would derail into some mud-wrestling before things get locked.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   Not sure. Just sort of hoping the argument would derail into some mud-wrestling before things get locked.

How about jello-wrestling?

I thought the thread was about clothing, and bodies the OP judges.

[Psyche Starling]

1 hour ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Wow, TMP is #6 !? I know it's free but... where are people getting clothes for it? I guess there's older content on the MP if you know to search for TMP and not what they've renamed it as but...

 

Free is always appealing!  I had the male TMP for my alt (until I needed him to model something that looked godawful on it, and sprung for a Jake) and I had him wearing a lot of standard sizes and some Legacy. There was a lot of alphaing, but he's not a clotheshorse so I made it work for a while.

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

16 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

I'm looking forward to the new Maitreya body as well.. But it will probably have to go through it's growing pains as well and may end up in the same place as belleza..sitting there with it's wheels spinning in the same spot not going anywhere.. Or it may catch a gear and  take off..

LaraX will have to be very smart to not become it's own worst competitor.

They need to rapidly get third party support going to a comically absurd degree to convince Maitreya folks to switch.

They also need to convince a very large and loyal fanbase to stop being loyal to the thing they know and try something new. It's a New Coke problem - and they better have the formula right or folks might just go buy a Pepsi...

Or hide out in bunkers with cans of old coke (thankfully for the customers - your mesh body doesn't get consumed like a can of coke - but that just makes the sell even harder for 'New Coke').

 

 

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

16 hours ago, kittycatdoll2 said:

now yeah if you want like huge avatar with a big booty then reborn works lol but for me i want a nice bubble butt not like huge 

 

This is with deformers and butt size at 0. Likely still more than you desire. BUT you can dial it down from where people often have it. That said - there is a slight belly bump there, but I like that as it's more natural.

I've been reading there are even better deformers out there than the ones I'm using - so I may adjust this soon.

The chest is Waifu and that's likely the opposite of the direction you're aiming for. But I think even though Waifu is only a few months old it's reBorns main competitive advantage - the other brands all put out addons for smaller tops, reBorn went into the space that only had third partly competition. The only third party competition that actually had any real support was Mounds - which is a third-party addon for reBorn.

If Maitreya had put out a large bosom top in addition to it's small bosom options back when Mounds was new - reBorn as a brand might not still exist, even though most reBorn users don't use either Mounds or Waifu - it's the space in which reBorn largely lacks much competition (there is a 'giant top' third party option for Maitreya, but it hasn't been updated in years so it's UV map matches to Maitreya 4.x, and has a seam on Maitreya 5.x, and it has a somewhat unnatural shape).

 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

9 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Some may love to create different looks and use the different heads and bodies and things as tools to make that happen and always looking for the next idea..

Yeah.

I spend 60% of my time in SL trying on new outfits and looks that it's almost certain no one but me will ever see.

I spend another 60% doing that to my SL home.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by UnilWay SpiritWeaver

[Chery Amore]

21 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

This is with deformers and butt size at 0. Likely still more than you desire. BUT you can dial it down from where people often have it. That said - there is a slight belly bump there, but I like that as it's more natural.

I've been reading there are even better deformers out there than the ones I'm using - so I may adjust this soon.

The chest is Waifu and that's likely the opposite of the direction you're aiming for. But I think even though Waifu is only a few months old it's reBorns main competitive advantage - the other brands all put out addons for smaller tops, reBorn went into the space that only had third partly competition. The only third party competition that actually had any real support was Mounds - which is a third-party addon for reBorn.

If Maitreya had put out a large bosom top in addition to it's small bosom options back when Mounds was new - reBorn as a brand might not still exist, even though most reBorn users don't use either Mounds or Waifu - it's the space in which reBorn largely lacks much competition (there is a 'giant top' third party option for Maitreya, but it hasn't been updated in years so it's UV map matches to Maitreya 4.x, and has a seam on Maitreya 5.x, and it has a somewhat unnatural shape).

 

What deformer are you using for the butt?  And do you have a lot of problems with bottoms not fitting. I've had that issue with some makers..

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

4 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

I'm no marketing expert but... it seems to me if a market is already highly competitive and the products available are all mature and roughly equivalent (with aesthetic being the only real difference) and with many overlapping the same segment of the market at an already discounted price your only real option to enter and be successful is to compete on value, at the very least since the SL body and clothes market are so closely intertwined you need to enter at a price that is very attractive. 

I don't think many will want to release bodies for SL given these conditions, I don't blame them for wanting a decent return on investment but how you compete and build market share when the competition can charge less than half of your price is beyond me.

If I were a 3D modeler and making a new body for SL...

I would make that body and some addon mod kits for custom looks (larger and smaller tops, intimate parts, non-human legs / tail / hands / feet).

Then I'd make somewhere between 20-40 outfits in themes - regular everyday, work, formal, kinky.

I'd release the body copy/mod and FREE. Then all the kits and outfits copy/mod and at varying price ranges. More everyday items cheaper.

Then I'd put out a free dev kit (I'd include it with the body so everyone got it), and free PSDs for all the parts (set these out so even people who did not buy one of my addons could get it's dev kit free) so people could actually become resellers of just textures / applied textures.

I'd also need an amazingly good HUD with great features, and some top notch CSRs / bloggers...

And then I'd hand out the body and the dev kits for at least 3 months before releasing anything - and give people free event space for month 1 at my shop. Then be like reborn and have a monthly event every month... to keep those third party people engaged (but after some saturation point I could start charging small event fees if that's normal, trying to make sure it was always cheap to put your stuff at my event, but using it to help pay bills).

I'd do this because otherwise... I'd stand no chance competing with existing brands. A new entry is not going to make their money on the body because you can't get away with selling that high. So use the body as a lure to get people to buy your other stuff - which means launching with a LOT of other stuff.

 

Even doing all that - my odds of success would not be good. It's not easy to convince people to switch.

 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

Just now, Chery Amore said:

What deformer are you using for the butt?  And do you have a lot of problems with bottoms not fitting. I've had that issue with some makers..

-Pretty Liars- eBODY Reborn Deformers

And in that kit I took "-Pretty Liars- Flat Ass Level 3" and linked it to a copy of the body. It's mod so you can rez the body and the deformer and just link them.

I'm also using "-Pretty Liars- Breast Deformers" but those don't impact this part of the body.

I almost never have outfit problems. I think I have one bikini bottom that slightly glitches in the crotch - but it's designed to be worn over another third party intimate attachment so it's a bit unusual...

Body shape dials for this area:

Torso Length 65
Love Handles 18
Belly Size 0
Leg Muscle 45
Leg Length 70
Hip Width 33
Hip Length 21
But Size 0
Saddle Bags 15
Knee Angle 49
Height: 19
Body Thickness: 0
Body Fat 3

 

 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

4 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

Then you can set up the price for your body to "normal" and still sell, because just look at Lelutka.

Lelutka store always has a lot of people. I was in the Genus store... it was some females, but I did not see a male avatar there, even if Genus has male heads now. In Lelutka it was 1 male for every 5 female (roughly estimate). And in Catwa? One green dot, in addition to me.

Lelutka has high prices but they have a trick for that. Every time holiday season rolls around it seems like one new male and one new female head ends up free for a month. And it's always been a very high quality head with full features.

One might think that means people now "have a head and are done" - but instead that trick gets people in there and then they become brand loyal. So months later when they want to look different from all the other folks they know - they know where to go.

I thought Catwa used to do that too - but I might be wrong.

 

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 hours ago, kittycatdoll2 said:

well i did not to pay the 5500 for it i go for quality it is nice body legacy to both to me are wonderful i think reborn is cheaply made for people who cant afford legacy 

Sorry but no.

I have a Maitreya Lara, and the petite addon, and Belleza Freya/Isis/Venus triple pack, and a Legacy Perky, and a Kupra, and a Reborn.

Like many people, I tend not to wear the Legacy, because it's like wearing THREE LRAS AT THE SAAME TIME.

 

Like many people, my reasons for NOT owning a FailX have nothing to do with being "too poor", but because it's relatively unsupported, poorly made junk.

FailX Curvy is a poor clone of some dead brand of curvy body, with a defective stunt crotch, that was idiotically rigged to the bento tail bones.

FailX Classic, is aa poor clone of a Lara with a bigger ass, and that insane "turns inside out if you wear a bento tail" stunt crotch.

 

It's also foolish to claim that price is the limiting factor on FailX sales, when they started having those "drop the price from 5500 to 1500 because nobody buys our stuff any more" Desperation Fire Sales.

 

As for your eager anticipation of Not-Larta-Anymore-X, don't get your hopes up, some of the more obvious changes to it is... a bigger ass, skinnier arms and legs, wider hips, and a deformed crotch..

 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

4 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Ya, that's really about my only thing with it for me also is the knees feel kind of pinchy..

I haven't had a problem so I will probably regret asking for this but... can someone zoom in on the exact thing they don't like about the knees of reBorn?

 

... And I'm still 2 pages behind on this thread...

[Zalificent Corvinus]

6 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

Lelutka has high prices but they have a trick for that. Every time holiday season rolls around it seems like one new male and one new female head ends up free for a month. And it's always been a very high quality head with full features.

You forgot their traditional Black Friday "50% off" sale.

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

Just now, Zalificent Corvinus said:

You forgot their traditional Black Friday "50% off" sale.

Erg... I did NOT need to know about that...

 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

3 hours ago, AmeliaJ08 said:

Wow, TMP is #6 !? I know it's free but... where are people getting clothes for it? I guess there's older content on the MP if you know to search for TMP and not what they've renamed it as but...

I thought Legacy was made to still work with TMP clothing - which would imply the reverse would also be true. But even if not... TMP was around for a rather long time so I imagine there's still a lot of content out there for it. Plus I think it went through a few waves of being free so folks might be using it still on under-funded alts.

 

[UnilWay SpiritWeaver]

2 hours ago, Ceka Cianci said:

When is the last time you had a look at the numbers?

 

Top 300 mesh bodies with 498632 unique wearers:
 
Rank # | Model Name | Count | % (Count / 498632)
 
#1 : Maitreya - Lara : 153430 : 30.7%
#2 : Signature - Gianni : 33789 : 6.7%
#3 : eBODY - Reborn : 29186 : 5.8%
#4 : Belleza - Jake : 27889 : 5.5%

The news for me is that I had thought Jake was the top male body, not Gianni.

[Rowan Amore]

13 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

I haven't had a problem so I will probably regret asking for this but... can someone zoom in on the exact thing they don't like about the knees of reBorn?

 

... And I'm still 2 pages behind on this thread...

You can see where the knee area is "pinched" compared to the thigh and calf.  It's too narrow IMO...

Maitreya is a smoother transition from thigh to calf...

The Reborn knee area is sort of hourglass shaped

[Orwar]

3 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

The news for me is that I had thought Jake was the top male body, not Gianni.

   It's a quite common misconception, a lot of creators have dropped Gianni and so many new releases are Jake/Legacy only - people complain the dev kit is hard to work with, much the same as why there's creators dropping Lara even though it's the most popular body. 

   .. Now if only we'd get a Gianni X too .. 

[Orwar]

2 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Maitreya is a smoother transition from thigh to calf...

   From those two pictures, I much prefer the overall shape you've got on the Maitreya. Might be part of the dress too, but with how the knees and waist both look pinched it feels as if the profile is all over the place. 

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Orwar said:

   From those two pictures, I much prefer the overall shape you've got on the Maitreya. Might be part of the dress too, but with how the knees and waist both look pinched it feels as if the profile is all over the place. 

I was actually very happy using Maitreya after switching back.to it from using Legacy for a.short time.  Then summer came and I kept seeing the shoulders/arms and having issue with thin straps and the shoulder blades.  If the new LaraX gets a good following, I'll probably switch back.  I was able to do curvy pretty well with it before so we'll see how it goes.

[Ceka Cianci]

23 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

The news for me is that I had thought Jake was the top male body, not Gianni.

I thought that too for the longest time.. lol

[Paul Hexem]

33 minutes ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

I thought Legacy was made to still work with TMP clothing - which would imply the reverse would also be true. But even if not... TMP was around for a rather long time so I imagine there's still a lot of content out there for it. Plus I think it went through a few waves of being free so folks might be using it still on under-funded alts.

 

 

23 minutes ago, Orwar said:

   It's a quite common misconception, a lot of creators have dropped Gianni and so many new releases are Jake/Legacy only - people complain the dev kit is hard to work with, much the same as why there's creators dropping Lara even though it's the most popular body. 

   .. Now if only we'd get a Gianni X too .. 

Jake got a big surge when they re-released it with mod permission, didn't they?

That's what made me switch from Gianni, at least.

[Orwar]

27 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Jake got a big surge when they re-released it with mod permission, didn't they?

   Not sure, never bought it as I never liked the shape at all. Gianni isn't perfect either, I especially don't like the legs much (which is why I seldom wear kilts in SL!), but it beats the peculiar abdominal protrusions (still better than Kario's midriff) and the starfish-hands of Jake. And unless you're into the weird fetishwear that Jake users seem to be flooded with, it's still easy enough to find clothes for Gianni, so I'm sticking with it!

[steeljane42]

1 hour ago, UnilWay SpiritWeaver said:

Lelutka has high prices but they have a trick for that. Every time holiday season rolls around it seems like one new male and one new female head ends up free for a month. And it's always been a very high quality head with full features.

One might think that means people now "have a head and are done" - but instead that trick gets people in there and then they become brand loyal. So months later when they want to look different from all the other folks they know - they know where to go.

I thought Catwa used to do that too - but I might be wrong.

 

Catwa had two giveaways, last of the original bento heads line - Freya, it was/is quite terrible, and the HDPro Queen, which is as terrible. Stats of worn heads reflect it pretty well. And both of those happened when they already were losing the market. When they were the top brand they only ever had gesture "gifts", and some 24h release date 50% sales, with no black friday sales ever.

Also Lelutka dropped their prices to 4k from 5k in 2020, and Catwa kept selling their (in my opinion) awful new heads for 6k until March of this year, and outdated ones with no new updates for 5k as well.

But yes, those 3 years of giveaways sure did help to build entire ecosystem as well. Of course some people never got anything else, but I do know a few who eventually swapped to something else from them. And in my opinion it's deserved they are the top brand now. Looks/aesthetics are subjective, but that's 6 fully featured heads over 3 years and not some trial editions with limited features, plus a lot of nice updates with extra features, entire Evo line being updated to EvoX for free as well. Developing and sharing with others universal neck standard is also on them.

1 hour ago, Orwar said:

a lot of creators have dropped Gianni and so many new releases are Jake/Legacy only - people complain the dev kit is hard to work with, much the same as why there's creators dropping Lara even though it's the most popular body. 

There is also same thing as about Lara in a way - "who shop more". You can sometimes check it at bonniebots during new rounds of TMD and what not. For the recent example - new Ascend's release, some coat. It was in the trending attachments there for a day. I believe legacy/athletic version had 170(ish) entries, Jake's - 30, and Gianni's - 25.

On the same BB site - total daily bodies detected:  Legacy Atheltic is always 1st, but Jake is not that far off (usually ~250-300 less than Athletic), followed by regular Legacy M, then Gianni. So if it would reflect clothing sales, then difference would be anywhere as big for clothing too, but it is.

39 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

Jake got a big surge when they re-released it with mod permission, didn't they?

They did, plus it's on a permanent 50% sale for over a year. 1750 I think? That's a lot less than Legacy ones for 5k and Gianni, which I think 4.5k. But what is funny is that despite 5k tag - Legacy bodies sell better/faster than Jake if put regular M and Athletic numbers together, and by quite a lot. And Gianni... well, Black Friday sale might push that number up a bit, but yeah, it's on a steady decline new detections (and thus sales) wise. 1k within last 180 days and it keeps going down week by week.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by steeljane42
typos

[Orwar]

35 minutes ago, steeljane42 said:

For the recent example - new Ascend's release, some coat. It was in the trending attachments there for a day. I believe legacy/athletic version had 170(ish) entries, Jake's - 30, and Gianni's - 25.

   One could try to extrapolate purchasing power from that .. Or use it to confirm that bad taste tends to be a recurring trait in people. Meanwhile, 100% of the recently recorded wearers of Deadwool's Hart vest are Gianni users:

   Although at least some Legacy users are wearing the pocket watch chain.

   Sometimes I wonder about those stats though, or maybe it's just people in general I should be wondering about - apparently there's been 81 people caught running around with a lighter that only shows when the cigarette lightning sequence plays.

   .. Well, that's assuming none of those folks running around with the smokes forgot their lighters.