Mainland Pricing

[Hunny Bunny]

33 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

The Zindra market is very different from the other continents. Folks have suggested that there's some special arrangement covering tier for large land dealers there, but I don't think there's any evidence that's the case, other than the apparent gravity-defying share of land set for sale on the continent. Maybe it somehow pays for itself, maybe not.

That huge ratio of land set for sale is not the only way the Zindra market is special. It's true that you very rarely see abandoned land, but some of that effect is due to the speed with which it's put up for auction, much faster than any other continent. I suppose much of that is due to resellers watching carefully and requesting parcels be auctioned ASAP after being abandoned. (FWIW, there are two Zindra 512 m² auctions to close tomorrow, and yesterday's fourteen total auction parcels included four on Zindra.)

I suspect, also, less land gets abandoned on Zindra because there is an active market for it so it's worth setting it for sale instead of abandoning it. That's generally true of the high-value parts of other continents, too: stuff gets abandoned, sure, but not nearly as much as in landlocked high granite wastelands for example.

This is precisely why I decided to drop the premium plus subscription. A substantial 43% of the $30 monthly fee was linked to receiving 2048m of available tier. Unfortunately, with no adult Linden homes available, I find myself in a situation where I am losing money since I must also bear the additional expense of renting elsewhere.

[animats]

Zindra land. Yellow areas are for sale.

Waterfront land is expensive. That little triangle to the lower right of Nelsonia is L$100/m^2. The big area in Foley is L$37.5/m^2. Spaces in the mall in Mosh are as high as L$137/m^2, and nobody goes there any more because it's all vacant. Small landlocked parcels with no road access are not too expensive and show up on auctions frequently.

Peak land ownership by the usual big barons seems to have declined a bit. There was more yellow, and more vacant land, a year ago. A year ago, Kama City, which is supposed to be a downtown area, had huge open spaces. Now, more of them have something useful.

Zindra has much churn. People move in, build another club, can't get customers, and leave. There's one successful club near me; the owner has an MBA and knows how to run a business. Most of the others are empty. For a while, I'd see giant McMansions pop up, last a month, and disappear.

Corsica land. Much cheaper, from abandoned land up to maybe L$5/m^2. Most of the bare rock areas are abandoned, but unless you want to do some serious land development, you don't want to buy it. Corsica along the roads and coasts is quite nice. Driving or walking around Corsica is a nice way to see SL.

[Hunny Bunny]

15 minutes ago, animats said:

Zindra has much churn. People move in, build another club, can't get customers, and leave. There's one successful club near me; the owner has an MBA and knows how to run a business. Most of the others are empty. For a while, I'd see giant McMansions pop up, last a month, and disappear.

Zindra's reputation can be mixed, and many visitors may perceive it as mostly unattractive. Some establishments that claim to be clubs may lack the appeal they desire, often presenting a seedy atmosphere that contributes to their eventual failure. This further emphasizes the complex nature of Zindra's land usage, where finding the right balance between attracting residents and creating appealing adult venues can be challenging.

The primary issue I have with Zindra is the common misconception that it's solely intended for adult clubs. However, as the only adult mainland, it naturally evolves into a mixed-use area. This creates a conflict between residents who want to live there and build communities and those who wish to open adult venues, both competing for the limited available land.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 hours ago, Hunny Bunny said:

You make an astute observation, but my main point is that even though there is an abundance of general and moderate mainland, there is a severe shortage of adult mainland, contrary to the notion that nobody wants such parcels. 😉

They could triple the size of Zindra, and maybe then the demand would be fulfilled, and yes, adult is the place to be. You can set a bed out on your front lawn and not have to worry about prudes reporting you.

Not me though, I live in Kama City, so I build right to the property line.

[Zalificent Corvinus]

On 7/22/2023 at 7:30 PM, animats said:

A year ago, Kama City, which is supposed to be a downtown area, had huge open spaces. Now, more of them have something useful.

Plots in Kama City are less desirable, generally, than Zindran Countryside, because Kama City plots are severely crippled, no terraforming, no parcel join no parcel subdivide, if you cant find a plot that's EXACTLY the size you want, so out of luck. Plus all the damn roads, with their moronically stupid "region boundary of Crashing" down the middle, and every damn junction on a region corner. 

 

Kama City is a dump and best avoided.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 hour ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

Plots in Kama City are less desirable, generally, than Zindran Countryside, because Kama City plots are severely crippled, no terraforming, no parcel join no parcel subdivide, if you cant find a plot that's EXACTLY the size you want, so out of luck. Plus all the damn roads, with their moronically stupid "region boundary of Crashing" down the middle, and every damn junction on a region corner. 

 

Kama City is a dump and best avoided.

why would you expect to terraform in the middle of town? as forsubdividing land, you are wrong, on my sim fenfarg, land cutting and combining is permitted. I have added to my holdings a couple of times and combined it into one parcel. I also had a 4096 which i sliced up and abandoned as needed to buy micro parcels for my networked advertising back in 2020.

p.s. if you would stay on your own side of the road instead of careening all over the place, sim boundaries in the middle of the road wouldnt be a problem 😁

[Zalificent Corvinus]

4 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

why would you expect to terraform in the middle of town?

You're rezzing a house with a cellar, or you want a fishpond in the front yard for your animesh Koi Carp, etc., etc., etc. All kinds of reasons for wanting to make a flat boring green rectangle slightly less flat and boring.

 

The fact that some people didn't think of that, indicates their lack of imagination, narrowness of world view, and provides ample reason NOT to engage them as "Landscape Designers".

[Qie Niangao]

The ability to terraform has advantages and disadvantages. I have two Zindra parcels, one in a far coastal corner of Kama City so it can't be terraformed. That's constraining, but it also constrains the neighbors, which reduces uncertainty should there ever be a change in owners or tenants. My other Zindra land is in a region with singularly wide terraforming limits (for Mainland) which are largely hidden from view by all owners in the region—but it's a risk that the neighbor might decide to "terror-form" in hopes of extorting an overpriced buy. I did in fact have that problem briefly, but a little tongue-in-cheek outdoor decorating reversed that, at least for now.

The main problem with roads on region borders is left* turns at sim corners, which necessitate two successive border crossings. 

_____________

* for folks who drive on the right

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

The main problem with roads on region borders is left* turns at sim corners, which necessitate two successive border crossings. 

_____________

* for folks who drive on the right

Is it fun to watch two drivers from different countries argue over which side to drive on?

[Qie Niangao]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Is it fun to watch two drivers from different countries argue over which side to drive on?

Everywhere. But at Kama City corners it involves a choreographer.

[Love Zhaoying]

14 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Everywhere. But at Kama City corners it involves a choreographer.

In "Dad Joke" terms, that would be a "Car-eographer"!

[BilliJo Aldrin]

6 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:

You're rezzing a house with a cellar, or you want a fishpond in the front yard for your animesh Koi Carp, etc., etc., etc. All kinds of reasons for wanting to make a flat boring green rectangle slightly less flat and boring.

 

The fact that some people didn't think of that, indicates their lack of imagination, narrowness of world view, and provides ample reason NOT to engage them as "Landscape Designers".

insults will just get you reported sweetie

[Hunny Bunny]

On 7/22/2023 at 5:27 PM, BilliJo Aldrin said:

They could triple the size of Zindra, and maybe then the demand would be fulfilled, and yes, adult is the place to be. You can set a bed out on your front lawn and not have to worry about prudes reporting you.

Even after 14 years, the southwest region of the continent remains incomplete despite being the sole mainland where adult content is permitted. The land in this area comes with a high price tag and remains largely underutilized, likely due to the reluctance of many people to live next to unsightly, barren adult clubs and shops that have existed for years.

This issue primarily affects the mainland, where private regions have been carefully zoned for specific purposes like residential or commercial areas. Some in the community believe the platform might not fully appreciate the importance of adult content. Despite numerous requests, Linden Lab's reluctance to add adult Linden homes leaves individuals with no place else to turn. Could feedback from those benefiting from overpriced adult parcels be influencing these decisions to keep the adult real estate market exclusive? Even Linden Lab benefits from increased sales of adult regions, as the demand for adult parcels remains strong.

Consider the broader definition of adult content beyond just sex. It can also include depictions of intense violence like death, torture, or severe bodily harm, regardless of how realistic they look. This leads to interesting questions. For example, could certain Halloween displays or role-playing scenarios similar to popular games like GTA be considered adult content?

[BilliJo Aldrin]

11 minutes ago, Hunny Bunny said:

Even after 14 years, the southwest region of the continent remains incomplete despite being the sole mainland where adult content is permitted. The land in this area comes with a high price tag and remains largely underutilized, likely due to the reluctance of many people to live next to unsightly, barren adult clubs and shops that have existed for years.

This issue primarily affects the mainland, where private regions have been carefully zoned for specific purposes like residential or commercial areas. Some in the community believe the platform might not fully appreciate the importance of adult content. Despite numerous requests, Linden Lab's reluctance to add adult Linden homes leaves individuals with no place else to turn. Could feedback from those benefiting from overpriced adult parcels be influencing these decisions to keep the adult real estate market exclusive? Even Linden Lab benefits from increased sales of adult regions, as the demand for adult parcels remains strong.

Consider the broader definition of adult content beyond just sex. It can also include depictions of intense violence like death, torture, or severe bodily harm, regardless of how realistic they look. This leads to interesting questions. For example, could certain Halloween displays or role-playing scenarios similar to popular games like GTA be considered adult content?

its been mentioned in other threads, but despite being the bread and butter of LL’s income, they are highly embarassed by all the “perversity” to be found in Second Life. Not everyone want to live in places where a violation of the rules concerning adult content can have serious consequences but LL’s policy is “too bad for you”

 

 

Edited July 24, 2023 by BilliJo Aldrin
butter, not bitter

[Hunny Bunny]

11 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

its been mentioned in other threads, but despite being the bread and bitter of LL’s income, they are highly embarassed by all the “perversity” to be found in Second Life. Not everyone want to live in places where a violation of the rules concerning adult content can have serious consequences but LL’s policy is “too bad for you”

 

 

I completely understand your perspective, and I've also taken part in those discussions. As a fellow resident and customer, I share the same sense of belonging and involvement in the community as newcomers and long-time residents alike. If the Lab chooses to maintain a "too bad for you" approach for the next two decades or until the platform's demise, I will persist in advocating for change rather than giving up and leaving. 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

someone was asking when adult LL homes were going to be made available?

Instead of endlessly adding to belissaria, why not extend zindra by adding sims and making adult homes available. there would probably be tidal wave of people leaving beli for the zindra adult homes

[BilliJo Aldrin]

1 minute ago, Hunny Bunny said:

I completely understand your perspective, and I've also taken part in those discussions. As a fellow resident and customer, I share the same sense of belonging and involvement in the community as newcomers and long-time residents alike. If the Lab chooses to maintain a "too bad for you" approach for the next two decades or until the platform's demise, I will persist in advocating for change rather than giving up and leaving. 

im not going anywhere, i love Second Life, too much perhaps. im premium and also pay tier for 1/8 of a sim ( in individual parcels ).

The fact that prices on Zindra are outrageous shows all the pent up demand for more adult mainland. 

How many people dont go premium because they refuse to pay such high prices to own adult mainland?

[Fionalein]

45 minutes ago, Hunny Bunny said:

Consider the broader definition of adult content beyond just sex. It can also include depictions of intense violence like death, torture, or severe bodily harm, regardless of how realistic they look. This leads to interesting questions. For example, could certain Halloween displays or role-playing scenarios similar to popular games like GTA be considered adult content?

Don't forget drugs. AFAIK LL nowhere specified legal drugs to be only Moderate .. so by strictly interpreting the Knowledgebase article all drug use would be rated Adult including the legal drugs alcohol and tobacco.

Well... it says "illicit" use but how do I make sure my cigarette vendor on Moderate lands is not used by kid avatars?

@Patch Linden If I interpret the rules right a kid avatar drinking alcohol or smoking would constitute as Adult content right? As it depicts an illegal drug use?

Edited July 24, 2023 by Fionalein

[Hunny Bunny]

2 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

How many people dont go premium because they refuse to pay such high prices to own adult mainland?

I, personally, canceled my premium+ subscription solely for this reason.

[Rowan Amore]

3 minutes ago, Fionalein said:

Don't forget drugs. AFAIK LL nowhere specified Legal drugs to be only Moderate .. so by strictly interpreting the Knowledgebase article all drug use would be rated Adult including the legal drugs alcohol and tobacco.

It also says this but what exactly does it mean as far as adult content is concerned?

 

You agree that you will not:

Post, display or transmit any Content or conduct or host any activity that is sexually explicit, or intensely violent.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

intensely violent.

Aren't most "games" violent these days?

 

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

sexually explicit

Maybe this means "depictions of RL sex"?

[Hunny Bunny]

7 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

It also says this but what exactly does it mean as far as adult content is concerned?

 

You agree that you will not:

Post, display or transmit any Content or conduct or host any activity that is sexually explicit, or intensely violent.

This ambiguity is precisely why so many people err on the side of caution and choose to live on adult rated land.

 

[Hunny Bunny]

22 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

someone was asking when adult LL homes were going to be made available?

Instead of endlessly adding to belissaria, why not extend zindra by adding sims and making adult homes available. there would probably be tidal wave of people leaving beli for the zindra adult homes

While I wholeheartedly agree, and though we may continue to express mutual understanding and consensus, it seems that our discussions will lead us in circles without any tangible progress. As long as @Patch Linden says things like:

"so we've we've actually contemplated the
latter half of this a few times um and I'll and a lot of times we've
come back to the same conclusion of you know other than the fact that
you know you can't like run down the street
uh completely disrobed and and we'll call it uh an aroused state right
because that's what differentiates adult for moderate that's the only differentiation in fact you run down the
street naked in a moderate region now yeah um those are not aroused uh you know
that that's that's kind of what we return to is like would you really need to do that and so we ask ourselves from
the common sensical type standpoint of is that what people really want
and so when we kind of dig deeper and we maybe even survey around and ask folks
for their opinion and such uh you know at our various user group meetings and such we find that there isn't an
overwhelming call for it in general but it does keep coming up so it's interesting it keeps coming up but when
we dig in we don't get the sense that there's a strong need for it because you know when you're on your parcel and
behind closed doors and especially if you turn on you know the um the hiding features right for your
parcel permissions that don't let people see what's going on on your parcel from outside of it yeah
um there's not much you can't do within the moderate region and especially when it's
inside the home itself yeah so yeah we we we we we kind of reanalyze this"

Taken from the transcript of the June 26 episode of Lab Gab following @Strawberry Linden: "question from the community was will we ever see zindra being completed and are there any plans to make an adult version of bellisaria"

It's evident that the Lab operates at a pace akin to molasses in winter, and reaching any realizations can indeed take months or even years. If they do decide to move in a particular direction, the implementation process can also span several months or years. Considering this, it might be safe to assume that we'll likely see any significant changes around SL 25 or 30B, give or take what feels like an eternity. Until then we're left with no recourse.

[Qie Niangao]

A question about "completing" the Zindra continent and prospects for an Adult Bellisseria) came up in Patch's Lab Gab interview[*] at SL20B, starting about here. followed first by a few minutes of the discussion about Bellisseria and adult content in general, and then this, which I found rather encouraging (at least in contrast to the current thread) :

Quote

You know we didn't really finish the other part of that question which was "are we going to finish Zindra?" And the answer is yes. You know, we do have plans to kind of add on to the adult continent. What we don't think is the right path forward is to continue with the theme that Zindra is. We think that Zindra and that area of the mainland had a specific theme and we would like to update and modernize and go with something new. So there's plans in the work for that and that's all I'm going to say for now.

[lightly edited YouTube auto-transcript starting at 45:55]

__________________
* ETA: The very interview @Hunny Bunny referenced just above, while I was poised over the Submit button a moment too long! 😛

Edited July 24, 2023 by Qie Niangao

[Hunny Bunny]

7 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

A question about "completing" the Zindra continent and prospects for an Adult Bellisseria) came up in Patch's Lab Gab interview at SL20B, starting about here. followed first by a few minutes of the discussion about Bellisseria and adult content in general, and then this, which found rather encouraging (at least in contrast to the current thread) :

 

While I agree it's encouraging the lack of a clear timetable or conclusion is concerning. That's precisely why I persist in advocating for it, even in the face of opposition. We can only achieve progress by continually pushing for what we believe in, and it's essential to keep asking for what we want. I firmly believe this cause is worth fighting for, and I am committed to seeing it through.