selling on land with landscape

[JumpingJackFlash01]

hi i own land and had it landscaped by a private person .who own the objects .i want to sell the land with the landscape .but they told me i cant sell it with there landscape unless the buyers want to keep the landscape and pay them money .....surely has i paid good money for the landscaping i can sell my land  with landscape ????  .i hope you understand the question regards 

[Rowan Amore]

Unless you purchase the items a landscaper uses on your land, you are basically paying the landscaper to rent their objects.  You paid for their service and rented their objects.  

[JumpingJackFlash01]

10 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Unless you purchase the items a landscaper uses on your land, you are basically paying the landscaper to rent their objects.  You paid for their service and rented their objects.  

thank you just wanted a second opinion ... but never got told i could not  transfer there products so a little aggrieved wasted money when i could have done it myself ..live n learn has they say  

[BilliJo Aldrin]

Next time you hire a landscaper to decorate with their objects, hire me, everything i’d rezz is copy so i wouldnt care how long you kept the objects, or if you left them there for the next landowner 😁

[Alwin Alcott]

3 minutes ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Next time you hire a landscaper to decorate with their objects, hire me, everything i’d rezz is copy so i wouldnt care how long you kept the objects, or if you left them there for the next landowner 😁

thats still the same, the items are no transfer. 

[Rowan Amore]

Most objects in SL are No Transfer/Copy or No Copy/Transfer.    

If you decide to have someone landscape for you again, purchase the items yourself and have them place them on your land.  Otherwise, you're better off just doing it yourself.  It's kind of fun!

[diamond Marchant]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:39 AM, JumpingJackFlash01 said:

i want to sell the land with the landscape

There is perhaps a market for landscaped land but I suspect it is small. I always start from bare terrain and have fun landscaping, buying new plants, relandscaping, rinsing, and repeating. Second Life is, fundamentally, a sandbox game/not-a-game.

Edited July 20, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[Katherine Heartsong]

I think I'm missing something here.

Ethically, of course you shouldn't sell your parcel with landscaping someone else did for you (paid or unpaid) without returning that landscaping. But how would the landscaper know if you did?

The items of landscaping show as still owned by the original landscaper, on a piece of land owned by Mister X. If Mister X sells the land to Mister Y and has "sell all items" and not "return items" checked, the landscape items would stay, wouldn't they? How would the hired landscaper even know the land changed hands? Sure the new owner (and maybe even the present owner) can't modify/move the landscape items, but that has no bearing on my main question.

I am NOT suggesting the OP do this, but am maybe not understanding how selling works, even though I've sold and bought dozens of parcels.

PS. I'm going to buy a cheap 1024, place a few landscaping items down with my male alt account, then sell that land to Kat to test my thinking.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Katherine Heartsong

[Alwin Alcott]

if you sell it "with the items", deeding to group will free a nice amount of prims

[BilliJo Aldrin]

As I said before, who cares if I rezz some stuff to decorate your land and you sell the land and the new owner doesn't return it. Its all copy stuff, iI've not lost anything, its all still "mine".

 

[diamond Marchant]

11 hours ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

But how would the landscaper know if you did?

Great question. The seller could simply sell the land with objects. Abnor Mole has previously mentioned that auto return is turned off when land changes owners, so no problem there. The issue is that the owner of the landscaping can pick up or delete the objects at any time, and likely will do so. I assume that the landscaper periodically checks up on their clients.

Edited July 21, 2023 by diamond Marchant

[BilliJo Aldrin]

20 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

Great question. The seller could simply sell the land with objects. Abnor Mole has previously mentioned that auto return is turned off when land changes owners, so no problem there. The issue is that the owner of the landscaping can pick up or delete the objects at any time, and likely will do so. I assume that the landscaper periodically checks up on their clients.

Why would the landscaper check up? It was a one time deal, pay me x L's and i'll landscape your parcel with a bunch of my copy stuff.

I wouldn't even keep a landmark after the job was complete.

[diamond Marchant]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Why would the landscaper check up?

To collect money from a new owner. The landscaper in question appears to be in the business of renting the creations of others. 

[BilliJo Aldrin]

5 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:

To collect money from a new owner. The landscaper in question appears to be in the business of renting the creations of others. 

Appears? He was paid a one time fee to do a one time job. It appears you are making an assumption.

[Kathlen Onyx]

3 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Appears? He was paid a one time fee to do a one time job. It appears you are making an assumption.

Yes, appears because that is exactly what he told the OP. If he landscapes a property and the original person sells it, if the objects go with him he wants the other person to pay for retaining the items, copy permission or not. Not sure how she is making an assumption.

[BilliJo Aldrin]

55 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

Yes, appears because that is exactly what he told the OP. If he landscapes a property and the original person sells it, if the objects go with him he wants the other person to pay for retaining the items, copy permission or not. Not sure how she is making an assumption.

Well I missed that part. However of course, the person CAN sell the land without returning the objects. There is nothing the landscaper can do to prevent it from happening.

Is the landscaper gonna sue? Good luck with that. 😁

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

5 hours ago, BilliJo Aldrin said:

Well I missed that part. However of course, the person CAN sell the land without returning the objects. There is nothing the landscaper can do to prevent it from happening.

Is the landscaper gonna sue? Good luck with that. 😁

 

Well if the landscaper wants to be a real A$$, they can always cam into the property and take their stuff. Seems like maybe the seller should put some sort of disclaimer on it especially if he's selling the land for more because of the landscaping.

[xDancingStarx]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:13 PM, Katherine Heartsong said:

Ethically, of course you shouldn't sell your parcel with landscaping someone else did for you (paid or unpaid) without returning that landscaping.

What's the ethic about that? I'd call it unethical if the landscaper did not tell the customer upfront that they cannot sell their parcel unless they return the objects. You cannot tell someone afterwards about what you cannot do. You say that upfront. If someone wants to hire a landscaper to sell landscaped parcels they'll find one since there is either profit for both or profit for nobody.

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

Knowing the difference between what you have a right to do, and what is right to do. That's ethics. SL is not RL.

In this case, if I hired a RL landscaper to do up my yard, obviously it's staying with the house when I sell it. In SL there might not be the same assumption ... I'd argue there isn't. The landscaper is building for the person, not the virtual land. Unless stated otherwise, as you pointed out, the landscaping is for the person. Person leaves land, so should landscaping.

My point was that there was no real way for the landscaper to know that had happened.

I wouldn't do that unless it was my landscaping and my parcel, and included the landscaping in the sale. In this case, without the explicit permission of the landscaper (which we don't know since it was never disclosed) it's unethical to not return the landscaping. I assumed no such agreement was made since most people don't consider things like this when getting services done in SL. besides the ToS I've never seen an enforceable legal contract in SL, despite the sillies who say "Yes, I can record our chat and share it in SL in any way I want cause I say so in my profile." (No, you can't, except to report a LL ToS violation.)

I suspect we'll disagree about this though, so I'll just leave it at that.

[xDancingStarx]

6 minutes ago, Katherine Heartsong said:

In SL there might not be the same assumption

If anything, it's an "assumption" as you say. When you decorate a place, you may assume that the land is not going to get sold. The one paying you may assume that he's gonna sell the parcel afterwards. You are the one who wants to limit what your customer can and cannot do with the parcel. It is on you to make sure that the customer agrees to this before you provide service. Same with fullperm stuff on the marketplace. If you want to limit the use of fullperm items that you sell, you write it into the description. This is actually what people do.

What if the parcel is owned by someone else and the person hiring you is only acting on behalf of the person owning the parcel? Who is the one that you allow to have the landscaping on it? What if the parcel is group owned? Does the right to hold your deco belong to the group? To every member of the group? Can the parcel be sold to a member of the group? Those are just rhetorical questions that show it's not clear at all what "is right to do". You just assume that everyone sees it from your position, and that's just not working. You have to make sure they do and have them agree on it. Beforehand.

And again from a business perspective it doesn't make sense. By not telling your customer upfront that they cannot sell their parcel with the landscaping, you're giving yourself an unfair advantage over every landscaping business that has written clearly in their TOS or even description somewhere what users can and cannot do, or that just say it upfront. If you tell the customer upfront that they cannot sell their parcel, you are giving them the option to look for a different landscaper that allows them to sell their parcel. Maybe they can rise their prices because they do, maybe you have to lower your prices because you don't. Demand and supply. But not telling your customers upfront is just very sneaky.

So yeah, I'll leave it at that, since I agree that we'll be disagreeing over this.

[Rowan Amore]

On 7/19/2023 at 1:39 AM, JumpingJackFlash01 said:

had it landscaped by a private person .who own the objects .i want to sell the land with the landscape .but they told me i cant sell it with there landscape unless the buyers want to keep the landscape and pay them money .

If I own my home in RL but rent the furniture (do they still even do that?), if I sold my home with furniture included without letting the buyer know that the furniture is not really mine to sell, that would be unethical.  If I told them it was rented and if they wanted to keep it, they could rent if themselves, that would be ethical.

Since the landscaper in this instance has already said the OP can't sell items that they don't actually own, the OP has the obligation to let this information be known to any potential buyer.  Not doing so?  Yeah, that's just plain dishonest.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

57 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

but rent the furniture (do they still even do that?),

Yes! 

[Fionalein]

From a buyer perspective I'd never trust items I don't own myself to stay. But telling the next owner the item owner might come to pick up their stuff would be nice anyways.

[Aethelwine]

I had a similar situation except that there was no transfer of ownership. A group I contribute to paid a builder to work on our region. We paid and they delivered, but they kept trying to extort additional money from us on threat of them returning their build. Because it was a private region banning them to prevent them carrying out their threats was a solution.

If you are going to pay a builder I would now strongly advise they work full perm or with your stuff so ownership can fully transfer over.