What would be too much of an "ick factor" ?

[EliseAnne85]

1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:

This is very interesting, and I find that I feel the same way. Which raises the question, WHY do (most of us) feel that it's OK if Residents do these things, but not if LL does them?

I need @Scylla Rhiadra to jump in here and (once again!) explain my feelings to me.

I was going to say something about this for the Dinkies and Tinies of the Shire.  The Linden's joust with the Tinies of the Shire once a year or thereabouts.  

So, for the Dinkies and Tinies, the Linden's are like parents.  They have a warm presence around them like parents.  I dunno how to explain it perfectly because it's trying to explain a feeling.  But, they are parents and friends of the Shire and getting involved in ick could change their image.

Linden's becoming involved in Brothels?  Wouldn't that make them pimps?  That's not their image and it's not them.  The Linden's are parental figures, I think, and they play games with us sometimes and arrange charities.  

Maybe Scylla or someone has insight as to why the grown humans might feel uncomfortable if the Linden's got involved in controversial businesses in SL.  (Not that they didn't already do that but I'm not so sure this Casino is what it seems - and where is the Casino advertised?  I haven't seen that.)

But, I'd rather the Linden's remain friends and parental figures to remind us of charity, etc, plus things that bring us all together.

But on the other hand, I also agree with Sid, it is their business first and foremost.

Edited May 17, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Coffee Pancake]

8 hours ago, Randall Ahren said:

Sexual depravity and debauchery is SL's economic niche.

It's far simpler than that.

SL's economic niche is offering expanded social and economic opportunities to those excluded from such opportunities off screen.

The old dig "only people with no first life need a second life" stings because at least in some small part, it rings true.

 

This whole mess is an accident, LL made a space and suddenly the culturally homeless moved in. We are those who slip through the cracks, the lost, the broken, the furrys and the LGBTQs. we adopted this platform and built a whole world here and LL have been on a two decade quest for other "better" customers. 

The level of commitment and long term loyalty shown by users here is astounding. SL would do a lot better if LL embraced the nature of the user-base and pitched the platform at other people just as broken as we are. 

[Lindal Kidd]

Philip Rosedale said much the same thing, @Coffee Pancake, but you say it in a much nicer way.

[Silent Mistwalker]

So, the residents of SL are the dregs of humanity. What a lovely thing to say. 🤬

[Coffee Pancake]

3 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

So, the residents of SL are the dregs of humanity. What a lovely thing to say. 🤬

Slipping though life's cracks does not make any of us the dregs.

None of us would be here if SL didn't fulfill some personal need, there is no shame in that.

[EliseAnne85]

21 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

culturally homeless

What does "culturally homeless" mean?

If it has anything to do with art or music, it wouldn't be correct as there are many, many fantastic artists here of all kinds.  It's part of the reason why I am here - it's creative and the art is excellent all around, suburb even.  

So, I don't know what culturally homeless means?  Is that a real term?  I didn't look it up.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

What does "culturally homeless" mean?

The creative often need more personal support, so it is no surprise plenty of exceptionally talented people end up in SL. Quality and success in those fields has almost nothing to do with each other.

This isn't the bottom of the barrel, this is the end of the barrel where people care about each other.

[EliseAnne85]

23 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This isn't the bottom of the barrel, this is the end of the barrel where people care about each other.

This is true to some extent with a few exceptions in my own opinion.  IMO, the one's who do not care about each other are the one's LL is seeking.  Your post above says LL have been on a decades quest for "better" clientele.  I'm not sure what that means either.  But, I think LL are looking for quantity over quality with mobile because the screen is so small I (right now) can't see it appealing to many more than those who are looking for a quick cybersex experience without caring involved; an emotionless experience.  I'd guess no different than those who are looking for a video chat on FB or Tik Tok.  There is no reason for a video chat unless someone wants cybersex, imo.   My friends have been hit up for that.  It's real cringey to all of us, that video chat thing on FB or Tik Tok.  

But, even this "social casino" could support my theory about mobile.  Quick and emotionless sex "hook-ups" at a Casino because that's what a lot of people want.   (Although I still have belief this Casino thing is more than meets the eye.)

Edited May 17, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[AzureWaves]

9 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Speaking of sponsorship, Lindens / Moles and Fundraising, just saw this. Is bald "ick"? 
 

 

The biggest ick here is KB Linden's tshirt.

[Coffee Pancake]

SL is a high effort environment, trying to meet the needs of those seeking instant gratification is a dead end. It doesn't matter how easy LL try to make it, there will always be easier better ways that have nothing to do with SL.

Pooping with slots? There is an app for that, it will NEVER be the SL app. Just the time required to go from cold to interacting with a machine kills it. 

This is why the Casino is so distasteful. It's going to hurt us and we are going to be the ones that have to picks up the pieces.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

3 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

This is very interesting, and I find that I feel the same way. Which raises the question, WHY do (most of us) feel that it's OK if Residents do these things, but not if LL does them?

I need @Scylla Rhiadra to jump in here and (once again!) explain my feelings to me.

Scylla will explain it better I'm sure, but it's one thing for residents to get up to shenanigans. Same as in the real world, it results in the usual - rumors, gossip, might make the tabloids or news or social media trends, etc., but it doesn't necessarily automatically reflect on an entire population or ALL of society if one or two people get up to something distasteful. We shrug it off and go on about our day - oh boy, look at what *insert random problematic celebrity here* is up to today. They stole a car?! Goodness. Oh well, back to shopping for oranges. It won't tank the entire population's reputation at that level. 

It's a whole different thing when a platform, company, CEO, or higher authority endorses something troublesome and it *can* possibly reflect on the wider whole. Oh wow, SL endorses X vs. some unknown resident was caught doing X. Big, big difference. Why? Potential for wider media reach, more negative publicity, more articles, bigger scandal, they might lose customers and business, more people will pay attention and make judgments about the company AND quite possibly its users. "Oh, you use SL? Isn't that the platform that endorses X?"

That may actually work for SOME companies - just look at Rockstar Games and their offerings that sparked all kinds of controversies (Manhunt and GTA, for starters) - but SL hasn't traditionally been in the business of shock content/marketing, so that'd be very out of character for them to do.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Ayashe Ninetails
Grammaring

[Silent Mistwalker]

43 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

the end of the barrel where people care about each other.

They care so much they still ostracize people like me. Then they get all hurt feelings and bent out of shape when it's pointed out without bitterness.

3... 2... 1...

[Marigold Devin]

3 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

This is very interesting, and I find that I feel the same way. Which raises the question, WHY do (most of us) feel that it's OK if Residents do these things, but not if LL does them?

I need @Scylla Rhiadra to jump in here and (once again!) explain my feelings to me.

Because LL should know better, after the scandal from 2007. Because it's their jobs on the line, the company's reputation. 

Us residents, meh, we're all disposable. 

So much better it is if LL set the best example, set rules and boundaries, be seen to be running some kind of governance over it all. 

[Gwin LeShelle]

Patch is silent although he got tagged (he usually always at least gives a short statement), no mole ever showed up in the threads not even to moderate. So I assume they got told to stay silent on this or they just purely also don't agree.

This whole thing smells like wolf ... Oberwolf

But this is all just my assumption x3 because LL with their non answer leaves me enough room to speculate

 

*Referring to all the ick threads and Casino threads lately btw x3

Edited May 17, 2023 by Gwin LeShelle

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

They care so much they still ostracize people like me.

I'm sorry, but by "people like me" are you referring to something about your personal self (gender / age / any disabilities), or a group you belong to (heritage / ethnicity / etc.)?

I don't tend to assume "people" are "like anything". 

So, confused.

[Alwin Alcott]

2 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

, the Linden's are like parents.  They have a warm presence around them like parents.  I dunno how to explain it perfectly because it's trying to explain a feeling.  But, they are parents and friends of the Shire and getting involved in ick could change their image.

Linden's becoming involved in Brothels? 
that's not their image and it's not them. 
The Linden's are parental figures, I think, and they play games with us sometimes and arrange charities.  

But, I'd rather the Linden's remain friends and parental figures to remind us of charity, etc, plus things that bring us all together.

where you get your sniff or paddo's? I need those too...

Lindens are employees of LL, not your friend or parent.
They rent out thousends of parcels to the adult industry in SL
They are friendly to us because we'r their customers, it's their job to be nice to us.

[Persephone Emerald]

17 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I'm just thinking here, but I think strip poker for charity or stripper pole Moles would be bad too.

11 hours ago, Alwin Alcott said:

is that really bad, or just our learned non naturral morals?

9 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Speaking of sponsorship, Lindens / Moles and Fundraising, just saw this. Is bald "ick"? 

The idea of shaving one's head in solidarity with someone who is losing their hair due to chemotherapy comes from RL & is not an "ick factor". Baldness isn't either.

Dunking a Linden or Mole is fine, because no one is actually being dropped into water.

Where these kinds of activities become problematic is when those who are meant to be dunked, kissed, hugged, shaved, stripped or auctioned off don't want to participate in these actions. In RL I expect most of us wouldn't feel comfortable with our employers expecting us to be put into these kinds of situations. Some people in management positions might not mind being dunked on a hot day for what they believe to be a good cause, but it must not be coercive. Forcing someone to be kissed, stripped or even hugged could be a form of sexual assault, or at least an invasion of their personal boundaries. I don't think LL should encourage the virtual enactment of such with their employees.

[Hymn Celestia]

53 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

What does "culturally homeless" mean?

If it has anything to do with art or music, it wouldn't be correct as there are many, many fantastic artists here of all kinds.  It's part of the reason why I am here - it's creative and the art is excellent all around, suburb even.  

So, I don't know what culturally homeless means?  Is that a real term?  I didn't look it up.

I like how Coffee answered; but I'll also add something explicitly that is possibly only implied.  If one thinks of the "homeless" in part as those for whom the original home is simply too dangerous to inhabit, perhaps even too dangerous for "cultural" reasons i.e. the culture of the home is unsupportive, or violent, or filled with too much "ick" factor, that person who feels homeless can find a home they can make to their own standards of safety and joy in Second Life.  The artistic community doesn't necessarily feel safe practicing their art, sometimes, in the political climate of the world today, since art and politics often clash head-on; and here they can feel more safe to do so.

And to bring this around to the original question about the "ick" factors that would really turn me off, anything that forces engagement or puts people in deliberate feelings of cramped personal space in which to choose.  Forced engagement, things that force a person to have to engage, that's number one "ick" to me.   

[Alwin Alcott]

7 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

The idea of shaving one's head in solidarity with someone who is losing their hair due to chemotherapy comes from RL & is not an "ick factor".

but taking the wig off in SL means what exacty?.. i see nowhere they shave themselves in real.

[Persephone Emerald]

Just now, Alwin Alcott said:

but taking the wig off in SL means what exacty?.. i see nowhere they shave themselves in real.

True. It's a meaningly gimmick. Maybe it appeals to people because it seems like humiliating Lindens and Moles? Maybe it's more like someone losing a bet to a friend than like shaving their head in solidarity with someone battling cancer?

[EliseAnne85]

19 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

where you get your sniff or paddo's? I need those too...

Lindens are employees of LL, not your friend or parent.
They rent out thousends of parcels to the adult industry in SL
They are friendly to us because we'r their customers, it's their job to be nice to us.

Excuse me?  Sniff or paddo's, I have no idea what those are AND...wait for it...big, big ANNNNNNNNND don't need to know.

Dinkies and Tinies of the Shire often are role play but not all role play.  We are small animals that have the wonderment of a child of about 3 or 4 years old.   We see the world as everything "new" like a child, and are dependents as we are small animals. 

So, in that environment, when the Linden's visit the Shire for the jousting tournament, because that is our character of about a 3 to 4 year old tiny animal with human feelings, the Linden's are like our parent or friend.  

I would appreciate to have my own feelings and not have to make a discussion out of it.  Good grief.

Edited May 17, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Alwin Alcott]

11 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

I would appreciate to have my own feelings and not have to make a discussion out of it.  Good grief.

it's not about feelings, your RP doesn't belong in a discussion like this, there's another section for that.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Alwin Alcott

[EliseAnne85]

2 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

it's not about feelings, but RP doesn't belong in a discussion like this.

Excuse me for the second time?  Ick is all about "feelings".  I was explaining my particular situation when meeting with Lindens.  

[Alwin Alcott]

1 minute ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Excuse me for the second time?  Ick is all about "feelings".  I was explaining my particular situation when meeting with Lindens.  

you describe RP,  that's not discussable.  That's why it's irrelevant in this.

[Istelathis]

I often consider myself as nihilistic, or as close to the philosophy as any other I have bothered to research a little on.  My own sense of ethics are not woven into the universe, they are not a universal law that must be followed by everyone, they are incomplete, change depending on the scenario and information I am aware of.  They are not black and white, and they are not above the ethics of others.

When I find something icky I usually just avoid it, because I don't want to spend a lot of time thinking about it, trying to examine all vantage points as best as I can.  I mostly just am lazy, realize that most of the things people do are not intended to be cruel, and just go with the flow.  So it would have to be something really far out there for me to find something icky that LL would perform, something that would likely go against the grain of many people's ethics, and have me want to leave the platform entirely.