💡 Positive News Regarding Scripted Agents Function 💡

[Qie Niangao]

3 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

The HUD is meant for Explorers, not just sailors and aviators. Exploring mainland means getting off the beaten path, which is why I created the HUD to begin with -- I like to explore off the beaten path. So do many others who use the HUD. Getting a script or a prim into the 1000's of mainland sims off the beaten path in order to keep the HUD fed with data that explorers can rely on is impossible, unless you know something I don't.

It wouldn't get onto every mainland region, but the ones it gets on could spread knowledge and reputation of the product, while delivering more current data than bot-harvesting ever could. And I wouldn't discount how many regions it could get on, given a little marketing initiative with Mainland groups with strong interest in exploration.

The product's popularity will not be advanced if it's perceived to be standing in the way of landowners' ability to manage bot access to their individual parcels. After all, specific bots get blacklist banned from landowners' parcels all the time and somehow explorer-relevant data still gets collected.

In passing, I should say that I'm not at all confident Mainland will get the ability to ban bots at all. That's despite my submitting a jira that the function should be offered at region- and parcel-scope, as well as the current Estate-wide scope. The reason I'm dubious is that I think the Lindens are seeing this as solely a response to "privacy" concerns, and that particular matter has no relevance to parcel-scale bans inasmuch as data is collected across an entire region. Otherwise I think they would have made it parcel-based to begin with, to just ride along with the NPIOF and account age access restrictions. For some reason they went to the extra work of making it an Estate flag enforced during teleportation, which is why I suspect their sole focus is "privacy".

(Also in passing: There was supposed to be an announcement of Governance policy regarding bots. If that blog post today is all we're to see on that subject, this is all pretty weak beer.)

[M Peccable]

Just now, Rowan Amore said:

Doesn't that tell you something?

Yes. That most people have knee-jerk reactions as soon as the hear the word bot. Also that most people are clueless to the fact there is a such thing as a beneficial one.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, M Peccable said:

Yes. That most people have knee-jerk reactions as soon as the hear the word bot. Also that most people are clueless to the fact there is a such thing as a beneficial one.

You're missing the point entirely.  I certainly know about bots and have for years.  Most people I talk to know about them and their functions.  No one I know wants them showing up on their land.  That's what you should glean from most of the responses here especially.  WE know and still don't want them although some don't care one way or the other.  

I.don't care if a bot lands in a region and harvests whatever it is they harvest.  I do not want them on my land...period.

[M Peccable]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

I do not want them on my land...period.

I understand, and banning them isn't acceptable to you. So, if the HUD has to die, the HUD has to die.

Loss of functionality, but that doesn't matter. No compromises.

Ok, I get it. I will go find a corner somewhere to slowly fade away and let the HUDs and bots fall where they may...

[Rowan Amore]

You seem to be the one unwilling to compromise with an opt-in feature.on something that isn't even implemented yet and may not be.   But, I'll be following @Rick Nightingaleout the door on this one.

[Istelathis]

Some of my friends are bots

I even named mine, he likes to bump into my roller desk at night and push it around though. My fuzzy friend doesn't like robots though, or drones for that matter.  He tries to eat them whenever they start moving. My last drone ended up being a bunch of broken pieces on the floor, when he discovered a way to get to it.  Thankfully it was just a cheap $5 one, and that my fuzzy friend did not eat any of it.  Great friend, but a total botphobe. 

Bots are welcomed on my parcels, so long as they don't harass me, bonus points if they can do the dishes for me.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Istelathis

[Qie Niangao]

Returning to a different aspect of the announcement, I think less relevant to roaming bots and more concerning stationary traffic bots, specifically the update to Enforcement of Scripted Agent Policy:

Quote

Enforcement of Scripted Agent Policy

Reporting violations of the Scripted Agent policy is crucial to helping Linden Lab with enforcement. To report a potential violation, we ask that Residents please use the in-world Report Abuse function and file it under the category Disturbing the Peace. When the Governance team receives a report, the team reviews it and performs an investigation to determine whether a violation has taken place. For additional guidance on filing an Abuse Report, please refer to Filing an Abuse Report

Violations of this policy may result in suspension and/or termination of your account. If you feel there has been an unfair decision in this regard, use the Abuse Appeals process.

Do we think the Lindens who wrote that policy understand that residents have no way of knowing whether an avatar is identified as a scripted agent? Or are we just expected to guess?

True, it's usually pretty obvious that a parcel set for Search (so collecting Traffic) with a host of inert avatars hidden away is gaming traffic, and it's pretty sure those avatars are not identified as scripted agents and therefore in violation of the policy. But it would seem more consistent if we could tell, by script if not in the viewer, whether a particular avatar UUID was already flagged as scripted.

[M Peccable]

8 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

You seem to be the one unwilling to compromise with an opt-in feature.on something that isn't even implemented yet and may not be.   But, I'll be following @Rick Nightingaleout the door on this one.

Opt-in would mean only a fraction of mainland sims would be visited. That is just a fact. If there's a compromise there, I don't see it.

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Istelathis said:

Some of my friends are bots

I even named mine, he likes to bump into my roller desk at night and push it around though. My fuzzy friend doesn't like robots though, or drones for that matter.  He tries to eat them whenever they start moving. My last drone ended up being a bunch of broken pieces on the floor, when he discovered a way to get to it.  Thankfully it was just a cheap $5 one, and that my fuzzy friend did not eat any of it.  Great friend, but a total botphobe. 

Bots are welcomed on my parcels, so long as they don't harass me, bonus points if they can do the dishes for me.

 

Mine is called Naomi. Unlike yours, she has eyes (I stuck them on myself  )

[Count Burks]

1 minute ago, Qie Niangao said:

Maybe it's more that he's fallen in with bad company, through no fault of his own. There are a heck of a lot more bots out there now than there were when his device was created, and by shear quantity, they've changed the quality of what bots mean to Second Life.

When there are only a few beneficial bots from the good ol' days, accompanied by a huge number of suspicious new bots doing god only know what, those venerable bots have a problem that needs a solution.

Personally, I hate an approach that blesses the best of the bots, even if they're more noble than all the rest of us. Maybe that's even common in this industry, but such favoritism offends my delicate sensibilities. Sorry. 

Bots want data, Linden Lab has the data. If Linden Lab feels like sharing data they can write an API with the type of data they wish to publicly share and doesn't affect resident privacy, parcel privacy, Object privacy. Then content creators or gatherers of statistics can plug into that data through an API.

 

[Rowan Amore]

10 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

The bot is scripted to purposely avoid people by trying to find abandoned or public land.

Then what exactly is your complaint with mainland (non Linden owned) parcels having the option to not allow bots.  Or even all resident owned mainland being no access by default?

[LittleMe Jewell]

12 minutes ago, M Peccable said:

The bot's profile has zero complaints on his profile. Zero in 12+ years. That is because I respond to people's concerns when they contact me.

In reality, you have no way of knowing if anyone has ever submitted an AR about the bot.  All you know is that if they did, LL did not deem it actionable.

[Count Burks]

1 minute ago, M Peccable said:

A few add the bot to their land ban list and are done with it -- they never see him again.

And the next week another person needs to send his bot because he needs to detect the direction of the wind in the region. And the next week another person needs to come and measure the size of female avatars. And the next week another one needs to come and check the partner status of avatars in a region to detect for how long Second Life avatars remain partnered on average.

And then the ban list gets full. And while the ban list a getting fuller people become more annoyed and the quality of their experience as a land owner deteriorates.

If you do anything it is important to make sure you do not bother others. People have been incredible tolerant towards bots for a very long time. 

A bit earlier today I see this lady making a post here on the forums, why should this lady be bothered like that on her land? It is her land and she should not be bothered by weird visitors. If you use an approach which negatively impact others and continue with your approach you are being selfish. 

 

[Paul Hexem]

2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

That seems crazy. On the other hand, to repeat myself: you would not need to bother with sending bots to those regions because the entire sailing community would be eager to contribute to the data you're trying to collect, if they had a way to do so and understood how valuable it is to that community.

Honestly, this seems an opportune way to grow the use and utility of the product, and the more you can leave the bots behind, the better.

 

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

You seem to be the one unwilling to compromise with an opt-in feature.on something that isn't even implemented yet and may not be.   But, I'll be following @Rick Nightingaleout the door on this one.

I'm going to repeat what I said here:

They're starting to enable this on the region level. Meaning people like me are going to have to unregister our bots in order to continue to use them.

This is the problem with knee jerk, mob inspired solutions.

[M Peccable]

18 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Then what exactly is your complaint with mainland (non Linden owned) parcels having the option to not allow bots.  Or even all resident owned mainland being no access by default?

Being no access by default is the problem. Most will not check the box on their parcel that says "allow bots". I believe that means the majority of mainland regions will have no access, which in turn means that the data will be fresh on so few regions as to render the HUD unreliable. All it would take is to lift a finger to check the box "no bots", or lift a finger and use the land's ban list. Doing so would mean the continuation of a product that 1000's find quite useful.

But the hardcore types here say that isn't good enough. They want complete privacy, they want it guaranteed, and they don't want to have to lift a finger in order to accomplish it. Anything short of that is unacceptable. That is my understanding of what you want, please correct me if I am wrong.

My problem is with no compromise about having to lift a finger. It has to be opt-in only according to Rick, and from your wording, you also. With no compromise on that, I don't see how myself and many others are going to be able to continue to offer their product(s) if this is deployed as opt-in only to all of mainland.

Edited March 30, 2023 by M Peccable

[LittleMe Jewell]

LL didn't see any problem with flipping the switch for the new Linden Home regions.  

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by LittleMe Jewell

[M Peccable]

In my case, that's ok because "off the beaten path" to me is not Belli or any of the Linden homes areas. But that doesn't mean other product developers won't be affected by that.

[Dakota Linden]

This thread has been locked. 

Information was released regarding this update. 

Information is also available on the policy pages. 

https://community.secondlife.com/blogs/entry/13061-new-feature-scripted-agent-estate-access/

https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Scripted_Agent_Policy