Bring back Ratings!! - A Proposal

[Sammy Huntsman]

12 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

I think we can all agree that we don't want what you are proposing. I haven't read one post in 7 pages that supports your proposal though I didn't read the last two pages.  

I would rather LL ask me and many other users of SL what we truly wanted and basically gave us that. Not give us this, thinking that the user base wants this. 

[Love Zhaoying]

25 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

careful what you wish for .. because what you just described, that's called advertising in the viewer.

Sansar are going all in on that and people will pay attention, not to how popular or successful it is, because it wont be, but for how they attempt to pull it off.

I think we can all agree we don't want ads.

Ads for Basic is fine by me. 
Your 14th Alt has to watch ads? Sorry, not sorry.

 

[Kathlen Onyx]

@Coffee PancakeDo you really think that people that spend $2000 US on a piece of virtual land will care about 100L?

I can also see a lot of people hiring people to log in for them to get them "ratings". NOW you have a real problem. Or paying people to rate them.

[Coffee Pancake]

5 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I would rather LL ask me and many other users of SL what we truly wanted and basically gave us that. Not give us this, thinking that the user base wants this. 

Feel free to post your own proposals and feature requests, the more ideas the better.

[Coffee Pancake]

4 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

@Coffee PancakeDo you really think that people that spend $2000 US on a piece of virtual land will care about 100L?

I can also see a lot of people hiring people to log in for them to get them "ratings". NOW you have a real problem. Or paying people to rate them.

So either people wont care about the 100L or will care so much they pay people presumably happy to get less than 100L to do it for them .. ok? no?

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Feel free to post your own proposals and feature requests, the more ideas the better.

Why? Every other idea that anyone else presents you and a couple others shoot down saying LL is not capable of doing so.

[Love Zhaoying]

I'd support the idea of Ratings if you could "win the day", like on the Forums. Encourage people to do good; be good; be funny; impact other people's day. 

[Coffee Pancake]

12 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

If that $5.99 Plus thingie you put up is real with a 150 stipend and then we do this reputation thingie, I'd say the math adds up to something for 7-year-olds because that would be an awful lot of work for about an extra 10 linden a week.  You have to be kidding, Coffee.

See Linden realms .. that maxs out at 50L a week and requires a separate high focus activity. It's quite the grind just to get 10L and you can do that grind 5 times a week.

This proposal tacks on anything we care to do with it and does not require it be a singular focus.

People have demonstrated, consistently, for years, that there is almost no L$ amount too small.

12 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

You said PBR was our only hope of saving SL.  To have PBR, about a third of SL's current userbase may have to upgrade to a gaming computer and buy all new SL content which could cost a lot of money.

Please quote me rather than paraphrasing .. that isn't what I said.

PBR is a requirement to advance the platform, it's a precursor to vulkan. Doing this is a necessity to both take advantage of modern computers and keep the interest of people coming in. 

There is no future for SL as the "Old School RuneScape" of virtual worlds, SL costs a lot of money to run and depends on a sizable percentage of the population willing to spend hand over fist. The minimum viable population is significantly higher than you might expect.

SL must grow and to do that, there has to be change. Growth is not optional.

[EliseAnne85]

8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

PBR is a requirement to advance the platform, it's a precursor to vulkan. Doing this is a necessity to both take advantage of modern computers and keep the interest of people coming in. 

Saying it's a necessity is pretty much the same as saying it's our only hope.  I don't have an exact quote unless I go back reading your posts for several months.  But, it's basically what you said.  

As far as growth, I think SL needs incentives but I think you are setting the bar far too low, except for those of a child's age.  

Did it ever occur to you that SL may not have growth or retention because their incentives are super sucky except for a pre-teen.  Raise the payouts from games and see if you get growth.  But, I'd prefer not this popularity forced socializing thing.  It would not be a fun event if it's forced.  Leave it in the past.

Edited February 7, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Coffee Pancake]

1 minute ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Saying it's a necessity is pretty much the same as saying it's our only hope.  I don't have an exact quote unless I go back reading your posts for several months.  But, it's basically what you said.  

As far as growth, I think SL needs incentives but I think you are setting the bar far too low, except for those of a child's age.  

Did it ever occur to you that SL may not have growth or retention because their incentives are super sucky except for a pre-teen.  Raise the payouts and see if you get growth.  

SL is a zero sum game from the perspective of LL. That means for every winner there must be a loser.

if L$ couldn't be exchanged then sure, we could make it rain and everyone would be happy. Except the people who makes things and depend on SL for income.

My proposal for a non exchangeable secondary currency was aimed at allowing this to happen.

This proposal plucks 10% of stipend as a bonus amount out of the air, only LL know what they would be willing to spend as a monitory motivator to put the proposal into effect. It might be more, it might be less, it might be zero .. which is likely to be the point upon which this proposal gets rejected with a blanket "thanks for the cool idea" post.

Although I can say with absolute certainty, there is no way LL will give free money to basic accounts as part of a system that does not require attentive presence and active participation.

At this point hoping for more free for free accounts is wishful thinking.

[Love Zhaoying]

Since L$ has no intrinsic value, isn't SL more of a barter system? Trading prims for pole dances, digital art for scrip, simulated dancing and cuddles for RolePlay? If you just "give" someone L$, is that "zero sum"? If LL creates L$ out of the ether, is that "zero sum"? 

It's like Soylent Green, the real basis for the economy is people, be they real or simulacra. 

[Ayashe Ninetails]

23 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said:

90% of the players rather spend $L to fill their social meter rather than have to socialize with other avatars.  So much so that the developer had to make the non-socialization features less attractive and a lot of people quit.

This is a good point, and it also mirrors what's been happening with MMOs over the last...dozen years or so. Many games these days are solo-friendly when compared to how things used to be back in the 1999 gaming era. So much so that when devs try and push too hard on the social front (harder bosses, group dungeons, complex raids, etc.), more demands show up for solo content. Whole games have shifted to accommodate people who just can't be bothered, don't have the time to schedule things, can't commit to a full 2-hour dungeon, etc.

SL is a bit unique, as we generally do tend to like being social (even if on rare occasion), and we also like our alone-time. It's a good place for both playstyles and anything that pressures the more quiet/private users to be social or shines a light on how they are not is a potential disaster. As you pointed out, it can ruin things fairly quickly.

All it really takes is one good peek at the Make Friends forum to see what kinds of things the social among us are looking for. LL could start there to find ideas on ways to connect with each other in-world. 

 

11 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Feel free to post your own proposals and feature requests, the more ideas the better.

Random ideas that may or may not work - I already mentioned calendars, but...

- A toggle/checkbox to enable group admins to flag their groups when social events are planned/scheduled. When checked, a symbol appears next to the group name in Group Search, which might encourage more people to join to see what's going on.

- Bring back the Interests tab and fill it with activity checkboxes. Checking boxes flags your profile and yeets you into a new Activity Partners search where users can search for an activity by name - say "Greedy," and a list of users who have that checked will appear. It's now up to them to initiate contact and set something up. Perhaps have the ability to select a bunch of profiles and send a group IM or notice or notecard, so people feel less pressure to respond to a 1-on-1 message if they aren't currently in the mood. Don't want to be included or contacted at all - leave everything unchecked.

- A public sim you can travel to where residents can post notices and event boards filled with upcoming events at their sims. Basically a calendar, but more of a hub, so you're bound to run into other people looking for stuff to do. Toss a coffee shop or three and a dance floor and a fishing hole in there to make it more interactive and it quickly becomes a hangout (as long as we know it exists). Make it ridiculously pretty and you've now caught the attention of the fashionistas, bloggers, and photographers.

Hopefully, those ideas don't put pressure on anyone to participate and shouldn't really shun those who choose to stay on their platforms taking photos (like meeeeeeeeeeeee).

[Obic Malaprop]

I remember ratings and I'm not a fan of bringing them back. 

But I do like the idea of monthly/yearly/daily achievements. Wouldn't need to be premium only, wouldn't need to have a linden payout. Can be totally opt-in. 

Visit 10 mainland regions, visit 100 mainland regions, teleport 100 times, 1000 times, fly the equivalent of the circumference of the earth. Visit these 5 lab selected locations and stay for x time, Rez a cube, apply a texture, buy an item from an in world vendor, change your height, etc. (the opportunities are vast and could appeal to all kinds of 'gameplay') Come up with entertaining names for them, the data is already collected (at least for those who get the rezday stats email, I never have). 

Can even have special "first month" achievements as a way to guide new players to try out different SL activities. I feel something like that would encourage emergent social interactions far more than the rating system ever did. Especially if there is no tangible reward.

[Coffee Pancake]

2 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

Random ideas that may or may not work - I already mentioned calendars, but...

Not here.

LL needs there to be a JIRA. Write up what you want, draw pictures if that helps. Keep it simple and lim't the scope - here is one thing, this is how it works, this is why its important.

• Go here -> https://jira.secondlife.com/ 
• Click create new issue
• Pick feature request

No JIRA. Your idea can never happen. This is just how LL work, even if you talk to Linden in person and they love your idea, no JIRA, it's all for nothing.

[EliseAnne85]

26 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Although I can say with absolute certainty, there is no way LL will give free money to basic accounts as part of a system that does not require attentive presence and active participation.

At this point hoping for more free for free accounts is wishful thinking.

I never said anything about non attentive presence and active participation if SL ups it's game to have more attractive payouts and/or incentives for SL retention.

I have always been a free account and by the way you seem to be presenting this that Premiums almost need this extra 100 linden a month makes me think and/or even realize as a free account I spend way more in SL than Premium accounts do, have or will.  100 linden a month is nothing to me.  It's a tip for *an hour* at a show, if even that.  

Edited February 8, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Coffee Pancake]

18 minutes ago, Obic Malaprop said:

I remember ratings and I'm not a fan of bringing them back. 

But I do like the idea of monthly/yearly/daily achievements. Wouldn't need to be premium only, wouldn't need to have a linden payout. Can be totally opt-in. 

Visit 10 mainland regions, visit 100 mainland regions, teleport 100 times, 1000 times, fly the equivalent of the circumference of the earth. Visit these 5 lab selected locations and stay for x time, Rez a cube, apply a texture, buy an item from an in world vendor, change your height, etc. (the opportunities are vast and could appeal to all kinds of 'gameplay') Come up with entertaining names for them, the data is already collected (at least for those who get the rezday stats email, I never have). 

Can even have special "first month" achievements as a way to guide new players to try out different SL activities. I feel something like that would encourage emergent social interactions far more than the rating system ever did. Especially if there is no tangible reward.

Achievements are a fine idea people have been circling for years now .. and they have gained plenty of hate here too, mostly with all the same arguments against this proposal.

As a instructional tool to introduce newer users to the scope of SL and activities possible here they would be very effective.

As with my previous post though  .. it needs a JIRA.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Coffee Pancake

[Ayashe Ninetails]

1 minute ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Not here.

LL needs there to be a JIRA. Write up what you want, draw pictures if that helps. Keep it simple and lim't the scope - here is one thing, this is how it works, this is why its important.

• Go here -> https://jira.secondlife.com/ 
• Click create new issue
• Pick feature request

No JIRA. Your idea can never happen. This is just how LL work, even if you talk to Linden in person and they love your idea, no JIRA, it's all for nothing.

True! If someone likes what they saw and wants to steal an idea I tossed out there and write up a JIRA for it, feel free.

I'm not personally invested in the social side of SL enough to do it myself. I literally just log in to shop and take photos, so I wouldn't even need those features. I just like brainstorming. 😄

[Coffee Pancake]

8 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

100 linden a month is nothing to me.  It's a tip for an hour at a show.  

The payout for my proposal is insignificantly small .. yet tipping 40 real world pennies is ok for an hours entertainment.

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Coffee Pancake

[EliseAnne85]

8 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

The payout for my proposal is insignificantly small .. yet tipping 40 real world pennies is ok for an hours entertainment.

 

I added if even that before you quoted me.  100 lindens isn't even enough for an hour of a show.  I was thinking of when I sometimes tip less because I cannot stay the whole show as rl calls me away.  But, there is a tip to the main entertainer, the hostess, the venue.  100 lindens isn't even enough for one show.  

[Love Zhaoying]

28 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Not here.

LL needs there to be a JIRA. Write up what you want, draw pictures if that helps. Keep it simple and lim't the scope - here is one thing, this is how it works, this is why its important.

• Go here -> https://jira.secondlife.com/ 
• Click create new issue
• Pick feature request

No JIRA. Your idea can never happen. This is just how LL work, even if you talk to Linden in person and they love your idea, no JIRA, it's all for nothing.

Can we upvote or add likes to your JIRA for the ratings system idea?

[Rowan Amore]

I'll just think of anyone using any rating system in their profile the same way I think of those people with the 'I've been head patted 3746563 times' over their noggins.  People to avoid at all costs.   Pretty sure I won't be alone in that thought.

[Rolig Loon]

30 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Can we upvote or add likes to your JIRA for the ratings system idea?

Nope.  The JIRA is not a voting or rating system.  It's a reporting system.  You can add your name to the Watch list, but you can't add a "like".  It's also not a discussion venue, so if you stuff the comments with all the stuff that's already in this thread, it'll just get the LL staff ticked off. It's enough to have simply noted the link to this thread in the JIRA.

[Caeruleiae]

Ll should survey the grid, ask people what they like, what they want, things they could use, things that might keep them around longer or increase their social behavior.

I don't think they should rely on just the JIRA, even though it's helpful and what they say they want ideas put on, I don't think they pay enough attention to it. They don't even fix most bugs, feature requests probably get ignored even more often.

You never know the kind of ideas people might have. There will be good ones, bad, too hard, impossible, maybe possible later, all kinds. Forums are a nice place to start because people talk, but too small of a pool to get a good feel.

They need opinions of people here for all lengths of time, reasons, demographics- even if they don't necessarily collect that demographic info. I don't think they've ever really done that on a wide scale. Then people who don't want to answer, don't have to, and it wouldn't have to be connected to anyone's rl information or anything. I think the only main problem with this kind of information gathering is that they will have to actually read it, listen and act on some of the things. They seem to have trouble with those three things, so those would have to change on ll's end, since it's not the people's fault ll lacks them.

Maybe they need better people for market research inworld, even outside of sl too. They're not very good at it. I got an email about investing in sansar, which I only know what it is from reading these forums, and I have no idea why I even got it in the first place since I'm not in or interested in sansar. That's poor marketing in general, the email looks ridiculous, has a poor layout, very confusing, way too much text, puts down other platforms -even sl itself, and talks about a metaverse of all things right in the subject as the first thing people see. In case it's not obvious, that's the last word they should be using. They're crowdfunding for it, in one of the worst ways possible that will likely get spam flagged by most who get it. I don't trust their ability to pay attention to ideas, good or bad, and then respond to them.

Even though I don't like this proposal at all and I do think ll should say no, I have doubts they'll even bother really reading or considering it anyway. They need to do better on the getting feedback and putting it to use. 

[Ags Falconer]

17 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

That's it then, you won't get invited to the "dumb parties"'!

Good job with a kind and complementary post, even though you disagreed. I was impressed.

I like parties.

[Coffee Pancake]

34 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

Ll should survey the grid, ask people what they like, what they want, things they could use, things that might keep them around longer or increase their social behavior.

Ask a hundred people you get a hundred answers.

LL are famously bad at knowing what we want for this very reason. They've hired external consultancy firms to tell them about SL and it's been shocking. 

34 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

I don't think they should rely on just the JIRA, even though it's helpful and what they say they want ideas put on, I don't think they pay enough attention to it. They don't even fix most bugs, feature requests probably get ignored even more often.

For Linden Lab. JIRA is their sanctuary temple.

If SL was built on the back of anything, it wouldn't be a turtle. It would be a grand JIRA, supported by four more JIRA each facing a cardinal direction, balanced atop a the one great JIRA, standing bejeweled in a garden filled with tiny glittering JIRA, each one softly singing a song with only one word, and tended by a high priestess with no name.

 

34 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

got an email about investing in sansar, which I only know what it is from reading these forums, and I have no idea why I even got it in the first place since I'm not in or interested in sansar.

That's not from Linden Lab. They sold Sansar to another company.

34 minutes ago, Caeruleiae said:

I have doubts they'll even bother really reading 

They are guaranteed to at least read it, because it has a JIRA.