Sorry. This is not OK. B bots profile scraping.

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Ezbeharra said:

Wrong.

Nope, quite correct.

Your opinion on the matter is just that however and you are welcome to it.

[Ezbeharra]

Personally I'm not really taking a position on the privacy issue, but I have to say that if the site really is supposed to do what it purports to do, then it does it so badly that if they are not lying about its actual purpose then they are profoundly stupid.

[Solar Legion]

4 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

I'm just starting through this thread, so maybe these questions are answered already.

How the hell do they get the stuff that only Friends can see? 

How the hell do they get my Premium status?

If you're basing the first question on the web Based profiles - those are no longer in use in the official Viewer and were only an optional bit for many TPVs. Consider any settings on the Web based profiles to be null.

Premium Status - like your Online Status and other bits - is script callable by litterally anyone.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Solar Legion

[Coffee Pancake]

Has it occurred to anyone that because they are using bots, they do not need to use script to gather data, nor is their data collection limited to that which a script can see.

They are using a bot - that is the same as using a viewer.

They have everything.

Right down to the texture UUID of your skin.

[Ezbeharra]

3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

Nope, quite correct.

Your opinion on the matter is just that however and you are welcome to it.

Okay just read your own post back to yourself and pretend I said it.

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Ezbeharra said:

Okay just read your own post back to yourself and pretend I said it.

The difference of course, is in understanding what each channel entails.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

They are hot linking to images from LL's CDN.

Please help me understand - are they downloading the images, saving them, and placing the images on their own site, or are they re-downloading from LL each time their website is displayed?

[LittleMe Jewell]

7 hours ago, Paul Hexem said:

7 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

so LL sort of has a responsibility here, I think.

To do what, though?

The only way to prevent this sort of thing would be allow people to make themselves totally invisible to everyone else in the region with them.

Except that a Bot should not be able to see any aspect of my profile that any other non-Friend SL user can see.  And the Bot definitely should not be able to see whether or not I am Premium or Premium Plus.

[Coffee Pancake]

Please stay on topic and refrain from getting drawn into petty squabbles. Getting this thread locked on a technicality does not address any of the issues raised and deprives people of their voice.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

They have everything.

Right down to the texture UUID of your skin.

This makes my..UUID..crawl!

[Love Zhaoying]

Proposed fix: Only allow "Premium" accounts to do these nefarious things. "B__B" would have to create a Premium account for each of their Bots! It becomes a "profit center" for LL!

 

[LittleMe Jewell]

3 minutes ago, Solar Legion said:

If you're basing the first question on the web Based profiles - those are no longer in use in the official Viewer and were only an optional bit for many TPVs. Consider any settings on the Web based profiles to be null.

Premium Status - like your Online Status and other bits - is script callable by litterally anyone.

First question -- I totally forgot that the 'Nobody/Friend/etc...' profile settings were for the web only thing.  I shouldn't have forgotten because I use Firestorm and know that I can see all aspects of profiles because Firestorm uses the Legacy profile view.

Second part -- I knew that scripts could get my online status and see if I had Payment Info on File or Payment Info Used.  I did not know that the scripts also can get my membership type.

 

[Solar Legion]

1 minute ago, LittleMe Jewell said:

First question -- I totally forgot that the 'Nobody/Friend/etc...' profile settings were for the web only thing.  I shouldn't have forgotten because I use Firestorm and know that I can see all aspects of profiles because Firestorm uses the Legacy profile view.

Second part -- I knew that scripts could get my online status and see if I had Payment Info on File or Payment Info Used.  I did not know that the scripts also can get my membership type.

Yeah, that call was recently added in and was actually linked to a few times now.

[Orwar]

Just now, Love Zhaoying said:

Please help me understand - are they downloading the images, saving them, and placing the images on their own site, or are they re-downloading from LL each time their website is displayed?

   Neither. The images seen on their website are directly linked to our profile URIs. If you mouse-over the picture it shows you a path for a virtual world protocol to open a profile (i.e. clicking on it prompts you to run your viewer of choice). 

   All they've done is make a browser-based interface able to translate it directly.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

There's a lot of "missing the point" going on here.

1) That something is possible, or permitted by the ToS, does not make it desirable or ethical. And LL has changed its ToS before, and taken action against things that were permitted when they were seen as threats. RZ is an example.

2) There is a difference between data, aggregate data, and big data. I can collect a whole bunch of isolated first and last names that are essentially useless, but when I start pairing the former with the latter, I've got real information. Similarly, a phone number is an aggregate of 10 harmless numbers -- until they are assembled in a meaningful sequence. Someone posting my profile publicly is probably not much of a threat to anyone, including me. Posting my profile along with 10s of thousands of others? That's a very different thing.

3) LL may not "have" to do anything about this, but if it starts spooking people, or if there is enough noise, or if there is reasonable evidence that the data can be put to uses that harm SL's attractiveness, then they likely should, and possibly would take action. As they did with RZ.

ALL of the "calm down," or "it's allowed!" or "it's all public info anyway!" arguments being made here were made, incessantly, by defenders of RZ. LL recognized, eventually, that there was a threat, and they did take action, largely because of the clamour made here on the forums and elsewhere.

I am not yet convinced that BBB does represent a real threat. But I'm also not going to complacently shrug it off just because I'm pretty sure it doesn't directly threaten me.

[LittleMe Jewell]

Just now, Solar Legion said:

Yeah, that call was recently added in and was actually linked to a few times now.

These are the things I miss when I get too busy to spend much time in the forums.

*sigh*

 

[Solar Legion]

@Scylla RhiadraThere are differences between this and the entire RZ fiasco. The implication you've made is not a welcome one by any means.

Linden Lab reacted when it became clear that there was far more going on with that situation and that it was being run by someone who was not supposed to be anywhere near a computer (convicted, malicious hacker).

Unless/until the operator of this system is shown to be such ... not much outside of debating morals/ethics can be done.

I'm personally not here to do either.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Solar Legion

[EliseAnne85]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

but if it starts spooking people,

According to the TOS one is not allowed to alarm others under harassment, nor have repeated transmissions of undesirable content.  Do these apply as do nots against the residents of SL? (copy/paste is the community standards part of the TOS)  For repeated transmissions of undesirable content, scroll down towards DISTURBING THE PEACE and then under the words disturbing the peace it will say the above.

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards

Edited January 21, 2023 by EliseAnne85

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Solar Legion said:

@Scylla RhiadraThere are differences between this and the entire RZ fiasco. The implication you've made is not a welcome one by any means.

Of course there are. Which is why I said that I'm not yet convinced this poses a threat.

But there is potential here. And I think it merits some attention, and not a shrug. Because that IS how RZ started: with complacency. 

[bigmoe Whitfield]

Just now, EliseAnne85 said:

According to the TOS one is not allowed to alarm others under harassment, nor have repeated transmissions of undesirable content.  Do these apply as do nots against the residents of SL? (copy/paste is the community standards part of the TOS)

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards

Thing to remember too though, LL can not control what's posted to a 3rd party website,  but LL is contact with the sites owner and making sure things are going the way they need too according to what keira posted.   So we just have to rely on what LL is doing and working on with the owner at this point.  

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, EliseAnne85 said:

According to the TOS one is not allowed to alarm others under harassment, nor have repeated transmissions of undesirable content.  Do these apply as do nots against the residents of SL? (copy/paste is the community standards part of the TOS)

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards

If, "I feel attacked!11!!1!!!"

As in, I FEEL "harassed"..

Is that the SAME as "being harassed"? 

I don't think so.

[Ceka Cianci]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

There's a lot of "missing the point" going on here.

1) That something is possible, or permitted by the ToS, does not make it desirable or ethical. And LL has changed its ToS before, and taken action against things that were permitted when they were seen as threats. RZ is an example.

2) There is a difference between data, aggregate data, and big data. I can collect a whole bunch of isolated first and last names that are essentially useless, but when I start pairing the former with the latter, I've got real information. Similarly, a phone number is an aggregate of 10 harmless numbers -- until they are assembled in a meaningful sequence. Someone posting my profile publicly is probably not much of a threat to anyone, including me. Posting my profile along with 10s of thousands of others? That's a very different thing.

3) LL may not "have" to do anything about this, but if it starts spooking people, or if there is enough noise, or if there is reasonable evidence that the data can be put to uses that harm SL's attractiveness, then they likely should, and possibly would take action. As they did with RZ.

ALL of the "calm down," or "it's allowed!" or "it's all public info anyway!" arguments being made here were made, incessantly, by defenders of RZ. LL recognized, eventually, that there was a threat, and they did take action, largely because of the clamour made here on the forums and elsewhere.

I am not yet convinced that BBB does represent a real threat. But I'm also not going to complacently shrug it off just because I'm pretty sure it doesn't directly threaten me.

The only ones I remember Defending RZ was the ones using it.. hehehe

If they only knew what that guy had planned for them.. I remember seeing some of the videos that guy had in his library once we found out who he really was.. It was a lot worse than us getting our alts linked, that for sure..

That guy was scary..

[Solar Legion]

Just now, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Of course there are. Which is why I said that I'm not yet convinced this poses a threat.

But there is potential here. And I think it merits some attention, and not a shrug. Because that IS how RZ started: with complacency. 

I'd much rather go by what is known than by what-ifs - at least in cases such as this.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:

but LL is contact with the sites owner and making sure things are going the way they need too according to what keira posted.   So we just have to rely on what LL is doing and working on with the owner at this point.  

Missed it! One of the problem with big threads. And I TRY to follow all the Lindens.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

According to the TOS one is not allowed to alarm others under harassment, nor have repeated transmissions of undesirable content.  Do these apply as do nots against the residents of SL? (copy/paste is the community standards part of the TOS)

https://www.lindenlab.com/legal/community-standards

I don't know how LL would apply that here. But IF there are indications that the public accessibility of this mass of data is constraining people or impacting upon their use of the platform, LL should, and likely will, take action.