J.P. Morgan investing in Tilia.

[EliseAnne85]

I want to clarify something I wrote above about a Jeremey Linden quote saying "Don't do anything on SL you wouldn't want your Grandma to know about".  In that quote I believe he was talking about criminal activity not your SLex life.  Grandma is not (most likely) going to know about your slex life unless you live with her perhaps, but Grandma would know if you were arrested for say - money laundering - because you would be arrested for money laundering if one got caught and thus Grandma would know.   

Edited October 24, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Qie Niangao]

4 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

This is not a mass market product.

Of course I was extending the "compare and contrast" with Facebook / Meta. And I'd point out that Facebook did not clear a profit on advertising revenue until it had a lot more active users than SL did in its heyday. 

It would be possible, albeit expensive, to project SL in-world behavioral data through RL payment information to  web tracking and other surveillance of exhaust data including geolocation tracking. That's all possible, but again, SL is such a minuscule puddle of overwhelmingly irrelevant data compared to the vast oceans of easier to gather, purchase-predicting data that it's just not going to be commercially viable at anything like its current scale. 

That said, don't use crypto to pay SL bills, if that ever becomes an option. The Tilia owners have an unwholesome fascination with web3, so that would be painting a big red target on one's back—and on one's tracking cookies.

[Theresa Tennyson]

2 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

LOL...but the BOM nose could be a fill in the blank for a bazillion and one odd items sold on MP everyday.  And, LL, Tilla and JPM are not going to care what tattoos humans bought either, even if John Smith or Jane Doe bought Hell's Angels tattoos.  I am sure JPM is hip to what virtual worlds are - a bit of everything.

If there is a fear of some kind of profiling from the odds and ends I buy on MP or inworld, I don't have that fear.

As I said previously, I think JPM might care what currencies I might exchange too.

However, for those worried about being profiled somehow,  I say fight it.  Take it to voting boxes, etc.  

Right now Second LIfe is the Apple Newton of virtual worlds and probably will always be. (In its defense, it's already arguably more successful than the Newton was.) What JPM is doing is trying to be in position to be able to take advantage when someone finally creates the iPhone of virtual worlds.

[EliseAnne85]

1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

What JPM is doing is trying to be in position to be able to take advantage when someone finally creates the iPhone of virtual worlds.

I agree 100%.

[Istelathis]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

It would be possible, albeit expensive, to project SL in-world behavioral data through RL payment information to  web tracking and other surveillance of exhaust data including geolocation tracking.

I can view my purchase history from the marketplace, so that data is already there.  If and I mean *If* SL and Tilia wanted to generate some money on the side, I would imagine that it would not be that difficult to have a service through Tilia to provide prospective virtual platforms with a list of items one has purchased.  This could prove to be invaluable to multiple companies, as it would give said platform a list of goods more likely to generate revenue, it further could be used to generate ads custom tailored for the individual.

This is all speculation, of course, but I don't think providing our purchase history to third parties would be that expensive, if anything it might generate money for LL, it would also be an appealing feature of the Tilia service to provide prospective platforms that are considering using their service that data.

Tilia running on a multitude of games, virtual worlds, apps, etc, could lead to millions of users all of which could provide a steady stream of spending habits.

But, this is mostly my imagination speaking Qie, I haven't a clue how Tilia works.  I do enjoy letting my mind wander 🙃 Plus, I stayed at a Holiday Inn.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Istelathis

[Qie Niangao]

4 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

Tilia running on a multitude of games, virtual worlds, apps, etc, could lead to millions of users all of which could provide a steady stream of spending habits.

Yeah, I can imagine a possible future where virtual world purchases would be valuable enough, in aggregate, to make even little SL data worth collecting, although… I mean, it's so very idiosyncratic. There are so few of us, in a setting so different from every other current virtual world. If I were an advertiser I think I'd want SL data excluded—which, come to think of it, might be a way the SL data could come to have value for targeting: Advertise my product to folks with a buying history of virtual world services except those freaks with SL accounts who bought detachable genitals.

[EliseAnne85]

40 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Advertise my product to folks with a buying history of virtual world services except those freaks with SL accounts who bought detachable genitals.

That might have to do with the demographics of age rather than "freaks" as I'd think the vast majority of "games" and/or the target age for the new metaverse age is probably in the vicinity of PG-13.  Plus, the advertising of said games on main browsers would be G-rated (not saying SL doesn't fit that bill for a main browser)..but rather SL has a "reputation" of being adult and adult is not as sellable because of censorship protocols.  

I think JPM is positioning itself for the addition of cryptocurrency and a cross-platform exchange.  SL would be a small slice of that pie and might be an odd duck out amongst the ducks, as you say.

Edited October 24, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Istelathis]

18 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

If I were an advertiser I think I'd want SL data excluded—which, come to think of it, might be a way the SL data could come to have value for targeting: Advertise my product to folks with a buying history of virtual world services except those freaks with SL accounts who bought detachable genitals.

🤣 Deviant repellent, now for the cheap price of $$$

Who knows what sort of virtual landscape we will have in the future, I do think it is likely that as VR becomes more mainstream we will start seeing more adult hosted VR worlds, and with those worlds will come a host of virtual products meant to enhance the experience in said worlds.  Not to mention, a host of real toys that can be used while one is plugged into the VR world.

If most of what SL has to offer is adult related content, then we are doomed when such adult platforms become popularized.

[Coffee Pancake]

 

6 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

If most of what SL has to offer is adult related content, then we are doomed when such adult platforms become popularized.

This is where JPM bites us in the backside. Banks are not fond of adults adulting together and have used their considerable leverage to demand censorship, even on platforms where that adulting was explicitly the point.

What happens when JPM (or partner) demand services attached to Tilia adhere to an adult content policy (as we saw with Mastercard and OF).

SL can either ban the smut, and crash the economy, or keep the smut and crash the economy.

We all know exactly which side of the line LL will fall on should that happen - especially considering they already tried to make a whole new platform that would never have this problem.

[Sammy Huntsman]

34 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

 

This is where JPM bites us in the backside. Banks are not fond of adults adulting together and have used their considerable leverage to demand censorship, even on platforms where that adulting was explicitly the point.

What happens when JPM (or partner) demand services attached to Tilia adhere to an adult content policy (as we saw with Mastercard and OF).

SL can either ban the smut, and crash the economy, or keep the smut and crash the economy.

We all know exactly which side of the line LL will fall on should that happen - especially considering they already tried to make a whole new platform that would never have this problem.

Or have people use their government IDs, to prove they are an adult and not crash the economy. I feel like if we want adult content to stay on the internet, we have to make sacrifices. And if that means I have to prove my age, not by credit card. But by government approved ID. I am totally fine with it. 

[Sammy Huntsman]

36 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

 

This is where JPM bites us in the backside. Banks are not fond of adults adulting together and have used their considerable leverage to demand censorship, even on platforms where that adulting was explicitly the point.

What happens when JPM (or partner) demand services attached to Tilia adhere to an adult content policy (as we saw with Mastercard and OF).

SL can either ban the smut, and crash the economy, or keep the smut and crash the economy.

We all know exactly which side of the line LL will fall on should that happen - especially considering they already tried to make a whole new platform that would never have this problem.

But then again, you are acting like JPM bought out LL. Which is not the case. I don't think JPM will touch anything going on in SL. They just will tend to their investment in TIllia. 

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

But then again, you are acting like JPM bought out LL. Which is not the case. I don't think JPM will touch anything going on in SL. They just will tend to their investment in TIllia. 

Freedumbs knot gon?

Yays!  But srsly. Gud griff!!

[EliseAnne85]

33 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Or have people use their government IDs, to prove they are an adult and not crash the economy. I feel like if we want adult content to stay on the internet, we have to make sacrifices. And if that means I have to prove my age, not by credit card. But by government approved ID. I am totally fine with it. 

Question.  Are you thinking along the lines of *everyone* will have to have PIOF?  I actually have been wondering that myself but then again we wouldn't know unless it happens; we'd just be speculating.  My main account has always had PIOF.  But, would this mean our alts would need that as well?  I have no problem with that but others will squeal and holler.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Sammy Huntsman]

1 minute ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Question.  Are you thinking along the lines of *everyone* will have to have PIOF?  I actually have been wondering that myself but then again we wouldn't know unless it happens; we'd just be speculating.  My main account has always had PIOF.  But, would this mean our alts would need that as well?  

I just mean to access adult content, you need your ID to prove that you are an adult. I think that companies would be more lenient on adult content, if companies started taking charge and asking for proof of age via government ID. Instead of via credit card. 

 

[Sammy Huntsman]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I just mean to access adult content, you need your ID to prove that you are an adult. I think that companies would be more lenient on adult content, if companies started taking charge and asking for proof of age via government ID. Instead of via credit card. 

 

IRL you need ID to purchase tobacco, alcohol, porn, and even lottery tickets. Why is this same idea not applied to the internet? 

[Sid Nagy]

With a copy of someones ID card one can do an awful lot of unwanted things, like register a new car, open a bank account etc.
So as far as I'm concerned, not in a million years.

[Sammy Huntsman]

Just now, Sid Nagy said:

With a copy of someones ID card one can do an awful lot of unwanted things, like register a new car, open a bank account etc.
So as far as I'm concerned, not in a million years.

This is why it would go in a separate database, with the same encryption as say your credit card info. I think that this is a perfect idea, and I will always back this. I mean look kids can easily access adult content, with their parents credit card. And nowadays, since credit cards are attached to debit cards. They can do the same thing. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I just mean to access adult content, you need your ID to prove that you are an adult. I think that companies would be more lenient on adult content, if companies started taking charge and asking for proof of age via government ID. Instead of via credit card. 

 

What this overlooks, Sammy, is the fact that for a great many people a "linkage" between their RL identities and their SL "adult" activities might be not merely disastrous, but in some cases actually dangerous. There are many countries, for instance, in which being gay is actually punishable by prison, or worse.

Yes, PIOF already does this to some extent, but you're talking about connecting the dots to an actual RL "official" identity, and not just a bank account.

The peril lies not just in the possibility of a hack and a data dump, although that's a real danger. If data does end up either being sold or used for targeted ads, there is the risk of all sorts of stuff people might not want seen on their social media accounts or Google appearing there. It's a bit like the case of an algorithm determining that a woman might be pregnant on the basis of Google searches and purchases -- it's a very "leaky" system.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Oh, and just to add. LL tried age verification years ago. It was a disaster.

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

IRL you need ID to purchase tobacco, alcohol, porn, and even lottery tickets. Why is this same idea not applied to the internet? 

..because the Internet is supposed to be free, and anonymous?

There's got to be more obvious reasons. I'm not that smart.

[Sammy Huntsman]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

..because the Internet is supposed to be free, and anonymous?

There's got to be more obvious reasons. I'm not that smart.

I mean if kids have easy access to adult content, there is more reason to do this. Specifically for content like that. 

[PheebyKatz]

3 hours ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Grandma is not (most likely) going to know about your slex life unless you live with her perhaps...

Just hope to goodness she's not the one behind the avatar at the strip club. Cos you know, she just might be.

If you hear her laughing in the next room the moment you get naked, it's a sure sign something is horribly wrong with your world now. Thanks internet!

Edited October 24, 2022 by PheebyKatz

[Coffee Pancake]

53 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Or have people use their government IDs, to prove they are an adult and not crash the economy. I feel like if we want adult content to stay on the internet, we have to make sacrifices. And if that means I have to prove my age, not by credit card. But by government approved ID. I am totally fine with it. 

 

you're missing the point.

 

Last year Mastercard almost shut down only fans with an adult content policy change. 

LL wouldn't last 5 seconds if JPM decided to push that button on Tilia. 

[Istelathis]

10 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

There are many countries, for instance, in which being gay is actually punishable by prison, or worse.

Watching some of the political ads for my area makes me wonder if we will start seeing the same thing here, which is kind of terrifying.  It gets worse when a member of my own family starts spewing his own form of crazy regarding how the LGBT should be punished, to watch him slowly being programmed by the Internet and AM radio has been an absolute nightmare.  

This stuff gets really scary.  Losing your privacy in such a volatile environment is something a lot of people have concerns over, especially when you are in the minority, and the people screaming that they are being persecuted the most, and seek out vengeance are often the majority.

[EliseAnne85]

18 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

I mean if kids have easy access to adult content, there is more reason to do this. Specifically for content like that. 

Photo ID's have also become the norm where any "crypto" or digital currencies are involved and are part of KYC in many countries but not in others.

The being anonymous on the internet is also being beaten like it's the devil and must disappear.  Many banks want full transparency on the internet but again that varies by country, and they want a photo ID.  It's money laundering, tax evasion, human trafficking that's driving a large part of the now need for a photo ID.  But, again, I am speculating this could happen.    

However, submitting one's photo ID is done with careful secretive coding or JPM wouldn't be here.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by EliseAnne85