J.P. Morgan investing in Tilia.

[EliseAnne85]

10 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Not everything everyone buys is G rated.  Maybe someone doesn't want targeted ads because they bought female genitalia amd are male in RL or vice versa.  Or BDSM gear and an ad for something pops up while you're at work.  It's a privacy issue.  Who is doing what with your info and where.

Regarding targeted ads.  I remember now that I *opted in* with Ebay for their sophisticated auto-generated ad system during the time we were receiving stimulus checks.  With Ebay you have to sign up for the "show me/send me similar items" system.  And, the similar listings are sent to one's email which is private and which one can read with a phone up to their face which covers any sensitive content.

I don't think SL has any kind of sophisticated similar item auto-generated opt in option.   With SL, it's basically up to each creator to do & pay for their own advertising.   With FB or Flickr, it could send you similar.  I'm not really sure there.  I don't use FB for SL very often.  I use FB for rl, family mostly but I find I spend more time looking at their cosmetics because they are cool.  FB has cool stuff, imo.  

But, I'd think SL is too mature audience to be sending out similar adult or x-rated items onto a main G-rated general browser.  Also, I don't think SL or LL work that way; as I said, the creator's have to do their own advertising.  A long time it used to be ad boards.  Creator's have to pay to advertise on MP and it's not cheap.

Would I like a feature that sends me similar items on MP, maybe.  

[Coffee Pancake]

There is more to data collection that just "the stuff you buy". Supermarkets had "stuff you buy" and the best they could do was loyalty reward cards and coupons.

Modern data collection, processing, collation and statistical inference are worlds away from what people in this thread are talking about.

 

[EliseAnne85]

58 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

Modern data collection, processing, collation and statistical inference are worlds away from what people in this thread are talking about.

Can you elaborate?  What the heck would they do with our data on individual items we buy unless they want to sell us more stuff?  Not to mention it's costly to run sophisticated data farming.  They'd need to get something out it.  But, what are you thinking they would get out it?    

[EliseAnne85]

1 hour ago, Coffee Pancake said:

coupons

But speaking of coupons...I'd love if MP added that feature for creator's such as buy two, get 50% off third or whatever and it could be set up however the creator wanted it.  That was just an example.  It's a brilliant idea to get us through this tough economy...coupons.  I know it's off topic but maybe someone will pick up on the idea.  Otherwise, let's not discuss coupons further.  I love the idea though!

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Can you elaborate?  What the heck would they do with our data on individual items we buy unless they want to sell us more stuff?  Not to mention it's costly to run sophisticated data farming.  They'd need to get something out it.  But, what are you thinking they would get out it?    

Modern data is aggregated from multiple sources, linked to statistical models and applied to tokenized virtual identities. There will be boxes with an entire digital profiles of you in them, even if it doesn't have your name on it, even if some of the data is projected or implied or just wrong.

To cut a very long story short, buying beach wear in SL could raise your health insurance premiums or deny you a loan. 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2022 by Coffee Pancake

[Charlotte Bartlett]

1 hour ago, EliseAnne85 said:

Can you elaborate?  What the heck would they do with our data on individual items we buy unless they want to sell us more stuff?  Not to mention it's costly to run sophisticated data farming.  They'd need to get something out it.  But, what are you thinking they would get out it?    

It's not this data in isolation.   It's the concept of big data about you as a person in the whole.    That information allows profiling, which has historically (and currently still is)  used for predatory targeting.   You as a person, based on analysis of thousands of variables, are rated from your credit through to what to sell to you. The correlations of this data have potential to have disparate impacts to you,  with you having little understanding of how data is used, packaged and resold   History has proven (for those who remember the 2008 housing crash) how data was used to provide discriminatory outcomes.

Data is really important as a whole, not just the small purchase of game tokens when you look at the wider picture.

[Kavon Chrome]

This is the most wonderful news, we will have so much freedom!

Edited October 24, 2022 by Kavon Chrome

[Sammy Huntsman]

9 minutes ago, Kavon Chrome said:

This is the most horrible news, there goes any freedoms everyone still had.

Where is your proof? I mean if you are gonna make this matter-of-fact post. You better have proof to back it up. Or this is what we call, misinformation. 

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Where is your proof? I mean if you are gonna make this matter-of-fact post. You better have proof to back it up. Or this is what we call, misinformation. 

I think there's a new rule that it has to be posted on any thread where there's been a "change".

[Sammy Huntsman]

5 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think there's a new rule that it has to be posted on any thread where there's been a "change".

I mean I totally understand and sympathize with people who have fear of the unknown and a fear of change. But passing off speculation as fact is gonna do more damage than good. As they are gonna get more people with these fears, thinking the same thing. 

[Arielle Popstar]

11 hours ago, Kavon Chrome said:

This is the most horrible news, there goes any freedoms everyone still had.

11 hours ago, Sammy Huntsman said:

Where is your proof? I mean if you are gonna make this matter-of-fact post. You better have proof to back it up. Or this is what we call, misinformation. 

I think from the extent of data collection information that has come up in this thread and a good reading of Tilia's Privacy and Cookie policy, it is readily apparent to anyone not in denial or an S/L fanboy/girl, that the ramifications would be that a lot of residents should have second thoughts about what they buy, tip, join or anything that involves a L$ exchange which is logged and stored forever and ever. It has been admitted that Tilia is in possession of a database full of private and potentially sensitive information many Residents were not aware was being kept on them. If they have payment information on file, it is obviously connected to their r/l identity. While Tilia was under Linden lab, the information therein was at least in-house but now that it has been spun off to a separate company, who knows where that sensitive data winds up? This goes way beyond the potential use of marketers but also those to whom it might be used for more nefarious purposes and that is not even including the potential for being hacked and disseminated on the dark web.

Government regulations are BS as far as what is shared and divulged as one only has to look at other data collection companies like Google and Facebook to readily see that they rather pay out huge million dollar fines then give up those collection and sharing policies. Obviously that data is worth a lot of money and even more so here from S/L where residents regularly partake of activities that would destroy their real life relations, careers and lives in general should that information ever become public knowledge. And yet here is Secondlife/Tilia collecting it all and trying to assure us they would never sell or share that data while in the same breath acknowledging that there are legal pathways allowing it to be exposed. That is never minding the fact that the privacy policy itself, which we agree to by continuing to use our accounts, allows and in fact is acknowledged to being shared with affiliates and 3rd parties.

The misinformation is coming from Pollyanna's living in denial that at the end of the day, SecondLife and Tilia have been taken over by owners who are into it for the money and the data collected will be used in a way that nets them the most money regardless of whether that has major ramifications to S/L's reputation and/or that of its residents. They are saved by those who rather plug their ears to the dangers of it's policies and continue on like bad stuff only happens to other platforms.

[Theresa Tennyson]

On 10/22/2022 at 11:21 PM, EliseAnne85 said:

Why would LL, Tilia, JPM be interested to know that I just bought a BOM nose for my Dinkie?  Let alone have the time to be interested or care.

 

I think they'd be exactly as interested as everyone else who hears you talking about your Dinkie.

[Qie Niangao]

19 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Obviously that data is worth a lot of money and even more so here from S/L where residents regularly partake of activities that would destroy their real life relations, careers and lives in general should that information ever become public knowledge.

If putting real life status in jeopardy is why SL data would be even more valuable than what Google and Facebook collect, how would that extra value be monetized? Is JPMorgan Chase an extortion racket now? Because it's sure not going to pay for itself with targeted advertising.

I would like Tilia's lawyers to pull themselves away from complying with a sub-subclause of Bhutan's latest banking regulations and issue a statement of precise liability for any release of SL in-world data (which I suspect they'd gladly foreswear ever obtaining, let alone retaining or distributing). I don't think Tilia should leave it up to Grumpity's shrugged shoulders for corporate legal communications—especially inasmuch as she's not even a a Tilia employee.

The Lab should insist Tilia provide this minimal level of competence.

But still, these data just ain't worth anything to anybody. It's not that these companies are noble altruists, it's that there's no practical way to squeeze a dime from all the in-world data they could collect.

[EliseAnne85]

2 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

I think they'd be exactly as interested as everyone else who hears you talking about your Dinkie.

LOL...but the BOM nose could be a fill in the blank for a bazillion and one odd items sold on MP everyday.  And, LL, Tilla and JPM are not going to care what tattoos humans bought either, even if John Smith or Jane Doe bought Hell's Angels tattoos.  I am sure JPM is hip to what virtual worlds are - a bit of everything.

If there is a fear of some kind of profiling from the odds and ends I buy on MP or inworld, I don't have that fear.

As I said previously, I think JPM might care what currencies I might exchange too.

However, for those worried about being profiled somehow,  I say fight it.  Take it to voting boxes, etc.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Arielle Popstar]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

If putting real life status in jeopardy is why SL data would be even more valuable than what Google and Facebook collect, how would that extra value be monetized? Is JPMorgan Chase an extortion racket now? Because it's sure not going to pay for itself with targeted advertising.

I would like Tilia's lawyers to pull themselves away from complying with a sub-subclause of Bhutan's latest banking regulations and issue a statement of precise liability for any release of SL in-world data (which I suspect they'd gladly foreswear ever obtaining, let alone retaining or distributing). I don't think Tilia should leave it up to Grumpity's shrugged shoulders for corporate legal communications—especially inasmuch as she's not even a a Tilia employee.

The Lab should insist Tilia provide this minimal level of competence.

But still, these data just ain't worth anything to anybody. It's not that these companies are noble altruists, it's that there's no practical way to squeeze a dime from all the in-world data they could collect.

I don't know Qie but then neither do I know how Facebook managed to monetize all the data it has collected to become one of the world's richest companies. I know somewhat but probably nowhere near to how far they actually have. In the same way, I don't know how they would monetize our S/L data but I'll bet they getting tips from others on how to.

The fact that they do have access and store the data from individual L$ transactions considering it to be nothing more then play money, to me sounds a bit suspicious as like other posters have mentioned, I would have thought that Tilia would only be concerned with how much L$ play money I buy and how much L$ play money i sell, should I do so. The information and data is no longer internalized to the Lab but is now viewable to Tilia and its affiliates and third parties.

Now that Lilia and S/L are separate companies, suggests that both are going to be storing that data. More exposure, more risk.

[Qie Niangao]

Just now, Arielle Popstar said:

I don't know Qie but then neither do I know how Facebook managed to monetize all the data it has collected to become one of the world's richest companies.

Scale.

When SL's concurrency reaches a billion, there may well be commercially valuable signal in patterns of who buys which pixel partywear, if it correlates with who will buy items of real value somewhere. If Zuckerberg's big gamble pays off, Meta may have enough virtual world transaction data to target ads—or at least convince advertisers it does.

And I have no doubt Tilia would make that their business too if there were a chance they could profit from it. But that's the thing about Big Data: It needs to be Big.

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said:

LOL...but the BOM nose could be a fill in the blank for a bazillion and one odd items sold on MP everyday.  And, LL, Tilla and JPM are not going to care what tattoos humans bought either, even if John Smith or Jane Doe bought Hell's Angels tattoos.  I am sure JPM is hip to what virtual worlds are - a bit of everything.

If there is a fear of some kind of profiling from the odds and ends I buy on MP or inworld, I don't have that fear.

As I said previously, I think JPM might care what currencies I might exchange too.

However, for those worried about being profiled somehow,  I say fight it.  Take it to voting boxes, etc.  

Secondlife is pretty much unique in the amount of sexual content and variety it has to offer. Another aspect to look at is Groups for example and some of their names. Any groups that have to be paid for to join, would create a record. Many residents choose to hide those groups from other residents because of the potential for profiling. Now it comes out in the wash that this information is exposed to any of the potential affiliates and 3rd parties of both S/L and Tilia.

That you lead a nice clean Dinkie life that noone should have an issue with is all nice and good, but the reality is that it isn't all about you and there is many residents who likely would object to the potential of some of their affiliations and sexual purchases being exposed to those with the proper legal credentials or not.

[Arielle Popstar]

8 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

Scale.

When SL's concurrency reaches a billion, there may well be commercially valuable signal in patterns of who buys which pixel partywear, if it correlates with who will buy items of real value somewhere. If Zuckerberg's big gamble pays off, Meta may have enough virtual world transaction data to target ads—or at least convince advertisers it does.

And I have no doubt Tilia would make that their business too if there were a chance they could profit from it. But that's the thing about Big Data: It needs to be Big.

And yet Facebook as an example was selling user data long before it reached billions of users and in fact it is likely that selling that allowed them to reach the amount of accounts it has.

Over 70 million registered accounts in S/L with 20 years of data is a lot of data, especially considering it is in some ways unique in the sense of the variety of content going through its markets.

[EliseAnne85]

9 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

Secondlife is pretty much unique in the amount of sexual content and variety it has to offer.

I know...I've been human in SL but was married so did not have a sexual SL.  I tried to get husband  on SL.  He was not interested at all.  I had to make his avatar.   And, then he wouldn't learn to walk and would keep turning to view the sports game, so I gave up.  

However, JPM is not a dumb bunny; they know all this.  They already know SL is a bit of everything without my having to go into details.  

I do not believe JPM wants all virtual worlds or the metaverse to be G or PG rated.  JPM is a hedge fund, an investment group, and more.  

But, if profiling is a real fear factor, work on government level to change laws about how data can be used, sold, etc.  

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Arielle Popstar]

1 minute ago, EliseAnne85 said:

But, if profiling is a real fear factor, work on government level to change laws about how data can be used, sold, etc.  

Or educate and inform residents of what data  Tilia and S/L and by extension their affiliates are storing about them. I suspect that quite a few might not be so happy about that or have the nonchalant attitude some here have about what groups they belong to or the content they have purchased.

[Istelathis]

I've more or less have said this in the past, and I will reiterate it here.  We have more or less have created omniscient gods, that increasingly watch everything we do while connected to the Internet.  Or perhaps I should say a bunch of greedy Santas, they know when we've been naughty, they know when we've been good, and all of that fun stuffs.

Regardless of Tilia collecting your data or not, live your life like you have an all watching eye always observing you - especially on the Internet.  I can not even begin to tell you how depressing that is, what is even more depressing is how many people are just fine with it and will often tell you to just get off the Internet if you don't like it.  Such a thing is nearly impossible due to how integrated the Internet is, but more importantly this just stifles individuality and pushes on the ability of the majority to get the rest of us to conform to their own expectations.

What safeguards we have today to protect our privacy could easily be removed in the future.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Istelathis

[EliseAnne85]

38 minutes ago, Istelathis said:

Regardless of Tilia collecting your data or not, live your life like you have an all watching eye always observing you - especially on the Internet.  I can not even begin to tell you how depressing that is,

When I joined SL the second time, I read a bunch more things written by the Lindens.  I think it was Jeremy Linden who said in a blog about SL "don't do anything on SL you wouldn't be comfortable your grandma knowing about".   And that was way before Tilia even existed. 

Yet, on the other hand, it's an individual's choice to do with their land sexually what they want as long as it does not involve minors.   

As far as group names, some could make them a bit more inconspicuous but internet people always seem to want to challenge the puritanical and make the internet "the wild, wild west".  I believe the internet was the wild, wild west at one time but it is no longer.   However, people want their freedom of expression.

Having a violence rating for sims that are violent-content specific should be considered too but then comes the but we want our freedom deal.  It's up to higher powers to actually affect change.  Those who are concerned should talk to a Linden about it.  

Edited October 24, 2022 by EliseAnne85

[Coffee Pancake]

 

If data privacy is important to us .. imagine how important it's going to be to all of the other companies Tilia hopes to have as customers.

 

[Katherine Heartsong]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

Scale.

When SL's concurrency reaches a billion, there may well be commercially valuable signal in patterns of who buys which pixel partywear, if it correlates with who will buy items of real value somewhere. If Zuckerberg's big gamble pays off, Meta may have enough virtual world transaction data to target ads—or at least convince advertisers it does.

And I have no doubt Tilia would make that their business too if there were a chance they could profit from it. But that's the thing about Big Data: It needs to be Big.

Remembering, of course, that scale works by a user moving across and using multiple platforms. If you hit Nike's website *and* at some other point in your journey *rocky mountain tours/hikes* I have the opportunity to segment you into a specific bucket more precisely. Using SL or the Marketplace is just another data point to add to help segment, understand, and market to you. Tracking 1,000,000 users over 1,000 things they do gives me 1 billion data points.

And to your point ... big data used to have to be big ... with things like Zero Party Data modeling now, that is users willingly giving up personal information to a brand they trust for better personalized experiences, data can be smaller in quantity, and still allow for far more accurate segmenting and insights into a user.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Katherine Heartsong

[Coffee Pancake]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

Scale.

When SL's concurrency reaches a billion,

 

A billion ? .. Please, we're never going to see 100K, and even if we could, this mess starts creaking at the seems at 70k.

This is not a mass market product.

If we had gaming here, and SL was the lobby space between games, maybe and only maybe.