CaerolleClaudel Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 On 9/21/2022 at 8:06 PM, Persephone Emerald said: This depends on what the current administrators of Second Life want to do with this forum. Maybe they don't think lively forum discussions help their bottom line? Maybe they view forum moderation using paid employees - Moles and Lindens - is a waste of resources that could be better used elsewhere? They might think they can't completely get rid of the forums because they need users to have a place where their questions can be answered, but they don't need our silly chit chat back and forth on a public board. Killing these forums completely might not be their goal, but bringing them to a quiet, manigable, moribund state might be. They might want to treat us like that bothersome, demanding patient in an understaffed convalescent home. Move us to the end of the hall and overmedicate us, so we stop calling out for attention. I wonder if it could be that the Forums do not make them any money. Seems like I have seen people write that they don’t go into SL much anymore, just talk on the Forums. Of course, if the Forums get less interesting or more rigid (pased those points for me long ago), that doesn’t mean that those people will go spend time in SL. But who knows. Maybe they are trying to sell the company again and usually the suits want as little controversy as possible at such times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaerolleClaudel Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 22 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Sure, of course. We've had some awful threads here, and they were often, but not always, centred on politics. But it's important to recognize, at least based on what we were told here and at the SUG meeting, that it wasn't the "politics" as such that were the issue. It was that the politics tended to feed into nasty and toxic fights. The real issue wasn't that we were talking about things that weren't SL related, but rather that, when we did, the situation often got out of hand, and the mods were hard-pressed to control it. Why were they not able to just lock the threads? Back when I frequented the Forums they seemed to do that for little of nothing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaerolleClaudel Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 15 hours ago, Seicher Rae said: Well, I considered it a warning as well and a darned good reason to stop posting. The bans I got were RIDICULOUS, the slaps RIDICULOUS and I can point to one or two people, some who are still here because of it. I know, without "knowing" it was part of people gaming the (then) system. I also know with knowing that it was an unfairly, unevenly applied "system." And I know it was because some people were doing it on purpose it seems. There was no doubt how this (original) thread and others got shut down. It still peeves me. It was a warning, yes, but a real honest THREAT that the next step could lead in permanent banning. For. Forum. Posts. I always felt it was wrong to punish people in SL for Forum issues. Seemed more fair to me to ban from the Forums, not SL. But I guess that puts a lot of weight on the head of the hammer, doesn’t it? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 This ain't a peeve, but I figured a little positivity in this post would be nice. I am excited for the new RTX Remix coming out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said: I always felt it was wrong to punish people in SL for Forum issues. Seemed more fair to me to ban from the Forums, not SL. I absolutely agree. It shouldn't be about punishing anyone, it should be about stopping the problem. If they are banned from the forum then that problem is solved completely for that account and nothing more is necessary. Edited September 23, 2022 by Gabriele Graves 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaerolleClaudel Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 10 hours ago, Scylla Rhiadra said: Well, it also always seems to necessitate remembering passwords that I haven't had to use for, in some cases, a year or more. Yes yes, I know that there are apps for remembering all of one's passwords. But that would require organization. Organization. Is there an app for that? To me it is less effort, as I only have to remember one password. And it is easy to add entries. I have so many accounts, and all with discrete unintelligible passwords, I would be lost without a password manager. But we all have to use what best suits our needs! Just saying you might find it a relief once you got it set up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said: I absolutely agree. It shouldn't be about punishing anyone, it should be about stopping the problem. If they are banned from the forum then that problem is solved completely for that account and nothing more is necessary. I do agree, but you know how easy it is to circumnavigate a ban nowadays. So you could theoretically get rid of the problem, but in reality. They could come back, using VPNs and Mac Spoofers. So really that is not problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Just now, Sammy Huntsman said: I do agree, but you know how easy it is to circumnavigate a ban nowadays. So you could theoretically get rid of the problem, but in reality. They could come back, using VPNs and Mac Spoofers. So really that is not problem solved. Sure but banning them inworld too has no effect on their ability to do that either and that's why I said for that account. If the account is banned from the forum, no amount of VPNs and Mac spoofers will get around that for that account. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Just now, Gabriele Graves said: Sure but banning them inworld too has no effect on their ability to do that either and that's why I said for that account. If the account is banned from the forum, no amount of VPNs and Mac spoofers will get around that for that account. Yes there is, using those and making a new account is easy. So again problem not solved. While I do agree with you. There is no way to permanently ban someone nowadays. Especially when someone can create a disposable email address, sign up and subscribe to a vpn, get a mac spoofer and then create a new account. So really their fix is better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said: Yes there is, using those and making a new account is easy. So again problem not solved. While I do agree with you. There is no way to permanently ban someone nowadays. Especially when someone can create a disposable email address, sign up and subscribe to a vpn, get a mac spoofer and then create a new account. I was 100% aware of all that before I typed what I did. 2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: So really their fix is better. Presumably you mean the double-ban. I'm confused. How exactly is their fix better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Just now, Gabriele Graves said: I was 100% aware of all that before I typed what I did. Presumably you mean the double-ban. I'm confused. How exactly is their fix better? Well since you can't actually really ban people at all, they can keep on coming back. Ergo not solving the problem. Therefore, they needed another way to stop it. So I know it sucks, but they punished us all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said: Therefore, they needed another way to stop it. So I know it sucks, but they punished us all. It doesn't stop it, so how is it better than not doing an inworld ban too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said: It doesn't stop it, so how is it better than not doing an inworld ban too? Because a person who knows computers well can circumnavigate both bans. That is the point. It is pointless to ban in world and on forums, as it won't stick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seicher Rae Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Peeve: Adulting Oh, not the word. I think that is one of the best "new" words ever. Very useful. No, peeved at the action. All forms of adulting. Totally overrated. Also I was told that men don't use the word adulting. Is this true? This could be the next thing since "voice verified"! If the cute Barbie Doll avie can't say "adulting" then... male! It is a theory in process... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: Because a person who knows computers well can circumnavigate both bans. That is the point. It is pointless to ban in world and on forums, as it won't stick. OK, I'm going to bail on this one because it isn't making any sense and we are going around and around. I'm not sure whether you are arguing that a double-ban is the best fix or that no bans at all are the best fix. I think a forum ban at least makes it so they have to start again at the place they caused the problem but inworld wasn't the place where they caused the problem, hence isn't necessary and doesn't have any additional benefits to doing so. Edited September 23, 2022 by Gabriele Graves 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Just now, Gabriele Graves said: OK, I'm going to bail on this one because it isn't making any sense and we are going around and around. I'm not sure whether you are arguing that a double-ban is the best fix or that no bans at all are the best fix. I think a forum ban at least makes it so they have to start again at the place they caused the problem but inworld wasn't the place where they caused the problem, hence isn't necessary and doesn't have any additional benefits to doing so. I mean that isn't really solving the problem, having to start again. They will just start their crap again. So how does that fix anything? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Sammy Huntsman said: I mean that isn't really solving the problem, having to start again. They will just start their crap again. So how does that fix anything? It only fixes it for that account, I said that right at the start. That account cannot be used again. Of course there is no total fix for that person coming back but what are you suggesting? That mods give up their ban hammer? Every forum mod bans people even though they know this too. You said this: 16 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: Yes there is, using those and making a new account is easy. So again problem not solved. While I do agree with you. There is no way to permanently ban someone nowadays. Especially when someone can create a disposable email address, sign up and subscribe to a vpn, get a mac spoofer and then create a new account. So really their fix is better. What is "their fix" that "is better"? You haven't answered this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said: It only fixes it for that account, I said that right at the start. That account cannot be used again. Of course there is no total fix for that person coming back but what are you suggesting? That mods give up their ban hammer? Every forum mod bans people even though they know this too. You said this: What is "their fix" that "is better"? You haven't answered this question. I honestly think it is, making it only SL topics. As you know these people will create new accounts and start all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: I honestly think it is, making it only SL topics. As you know these people will create new accounts and start all over again. Oh, you are referring to them only allowing SL topics. That wasn't what I was taking about in my response to @CaerolleClaudel, no wonder I couldn't follow your logic. It isn't an either/or situation though. They could still stop doing the inworld ban even with this in place and that is what I think should be done regardless. Edited September 23, 2022 by Gabriele Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 (edited) Don't you think though that the threat of an in-world ban has some validity? Sure a lot of people would just create a new account and come back but soon they'd get tired of that. The ones that it deters are those that have spent hundred's perhaps thousands of RL money on an account. I think that would deter me if an in-world ban was threatened. Edited September 23, 2022 by Sam1 Bellisserian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said: Don't you think though that the threat of an in-world ban has some validity? Sure a lot of people would just create a new account and come back but soon they'd get tired of that. The ones that it deters are those that have spent hundred's perhaps thousands of RL money on an account. I think that would deter me if an in-world ban was threatened. I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the ones who haven't spent a dime in SL. It really wouldn't deter them. I can see your point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kathlen Onyx Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sammy Huntsman said: I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to the ones who haven't spent a dime in SL. It really wouldn't deter them. I can see your point though. OH I know. I was just putting in my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Just now, Sam1 Bellisserian said: OH I know. I was just putting in my .02 That'll be tree fiddy. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sam1 Bellisserian said: Don't you think though that the threat of an in-world ban has some validity? Sure a lot of people would just create a new account and come back but soon they'd get tired of that. The ones that it deters are those that have spent hundred's perhaps thousands of RL money on an account. I think that would deter me if an in-world ban was threatened. Over the years that the inworld ban has been active, I have seen no evidence that it deterred people from causing a problem here. Mostly like the ones who intend to cause mischief have already established an alt to try to protect their main. It may or may not work to protect it but it didn't deter them from attempting it either. Edited September 23, 2022 by Gabriele Graves 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Huntsman Posted September 23, 2022 Share Posted September 23, 2022 Where's my Tree fiddy at @Sam1 BellisserianI mean you wanted to input your 2 cents, it costs tree fiddy with me. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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