SL new user retention, expectation and usability

[Ceka Cianci]

57 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I've been here almost 13 years coming in as basically computer-illiterate as you so kindly phrased it.  I've created many wooden cubes in my time here.  I don't build anything, I don't blog, I am productive in no way.  Yet here I am.  

I do agree that giving people the fun tools would be a boon for everyone but I disagree with your characterization of people who do not stay.  Some of us illiterates and non-productives will be here until the doors close.

I wanna quote this again and just say, When someone has a problem or question about SL. You are one of the people that shows up with the right answers.. A lot of that stuff is with the viewer or the huds or the troubleshoots that need to be done to get someone on their way.

I know you've humbled me more than a few times when I jump the gun to give an answer to someones questions.. So, the last thing you are is illiterate or unproductive in any way in this world.

Those are the saves that keep people staying here. That's as productive as it gets if you ask me.

[Rolig Loon]

10 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

Currently it costs about $10,000 LL to get a mesh shape, head and skin to go with it.  More if you want some clothes.  Still more if you want to decorate a home. Not to mention you need to pay rent or premium for a place to live. Add that to the learning curve to get those things and use them.  It's no wonder people give up and leave before discovering the magic.

That's a fair guess. It matches what a lot of people who are in SL now do with their time and cash.

I've always though of myself as a sort of odd duck, since I didn't really come here to earn L$, or to play dress-up, or to build castles. I think I did my first real upgrade of my shape and wardrobe about 2 years after I joined. ( I'm only mildly embarrassed to admit that I did it because I wanted to see what life would be like as a pole dancer. )  I wasn't really motivated to have a house or anything to put in one until I had been in SL for almost 7 years.  

I know I would be an odd duck today, but I'm wondering now whether I wasn't actually so odd in 2007. How many of the long-term residents in this discussion were, like me, much less motivated by avatar appearance and real estate than today's newbies are? 

[animats]

1 hour ago, Ceka Cianci said:

3rd was as soon as leaving that area, coming to a sign saying , Improve your avatar for free.. I went there and all the options are dead end  options of outdated mesh that either never had support or is outdated, which left me at a dead end still 4 days later..

Right. Much new user intro material is broken or useless.

Let's visit a safe hub. I'm at Pooley, on mainland. Moderate. Like most info hubs, it's quite nice-looking.

There are three avatars here. SecondNorwayServiceBot2 seems lost. Two avatars about 3 months old, non-responsive. Of course, nothing is happening.

There's a stage and seating, as if someone was going to do some performance or presentation here. On the stage there are four boards on which one can click. They're all just web links. "Learn to build" takes you to the Second Life home page. "Tips and Tricks" takes you to a "How to get started in Second Life" video. "What's next" brings up the web version of the Second Life destination guide. "Where are you from?" brings up "Text Chat and Instant Messages" in the knowledge base. "My avatar is me" doesn't do anything if clicked. "Ask a question" takes you to the Answers section of this forum. There's a big sign that lets you purchase US$10 worth of Lindens, the most useful thing here.

OK, let's try Waterhead info hub.This is the second result for "Welcome Area" in the viewer's web search. (The first result is Plum, which reads "Currently restful, but a fond living memory of what the classic Welcome Area looked like back in the day.")

It's a telehub! I've heard about those, but they were before my time. Clicking on the telehub does nothing. There's some kind of card game, with an "out of order" sign. Four avatars standing around, unresponsive. It's too dark; this place needs some lights. There's a sign for The Portal Park, but it's dark. Oh, there we go;  if I get really close, it lights up.

There's a big sign: Ground Transportation. This leads to a road loop. Most gamers would expect some kind of transport to show up quickly. But nothing. No instructions. No rezzer. Not even a rez zone. Maybe a Yava Pod stops here every hour or so.

This is lame.

Someone went to a lot of trouble to build these nice-looking info hubs. But they are useless.

All this gives a terrible first impression.

 

 

[Arielle Popstar]

23 minutes ago, kali Wylder said:

Currently it costs about $10,000 LL to get a mesh shape, head and skin to go with it.  More if you want some clothes.  Still more if you want to decorate a home. Not to mention you need to pay rent or premium for a place to live. Add that to the learning curve to get those things and use them.  It's no wonder people give up and leave before discovering the magic.

I spent the first 6 or 7 years in S/L without buying Lindens and really didn't see myself as suffering for a lack of during that time. There was plenty of modifiable clothing to be had for free, furniture I made myself and there are now still free or very cheap (200L$) complete mesh avatars with outfits that i had more compliments on and offers for trysts then my 15000L$ mesh body and head with fashionista outfit. I currently rent a place that charges 1L$ per day for a furnished skybox with adult furniture and that is aside from a slew of invites to share someone's home for free....no strings attached....so they said  There are good deals to be had out there and the fun was had in the searching them out, not in the finally getting them.

[Arielle Popstar]

7 minutes ago, animats said:

Right. Much new user intro material is broken or useless.

Let's visit a safe hub. I'm at Pooley, on mainland. Moderate. Like most info hubs, it's quite nice-looking.

There are three avatars here. SecondNorwayServiceBot2 seems lost. Two avatars about 3 months old, non-responsive. Of course, nothing is happening.

There's a stage and seating, as if someone was going to do some performance or presentation here. On the stage there are four boards on which one can click. They're all just web links. "Learn to build" takes you to the Second Life home page. "Tips and Tricks" takes you to a "How to get started in Second Life" video. "What's next" brings up the web version of the Second Life destination guide. "Where are you from?" brings up "Text Chat and Instant Messages" in the knowledge base. "My avatar is me" doesn't do anything if clicked. "Ask a question" takes you to the Answers section of this forum. There's a big sign that lets you purchase US$10 worth of Lindens, the most useful thing here.

OK, let's try Waterhead info hub.This is the second result for "Welcome Area" in the viewer's web search. (The first result is Plum, which reads "Currently restful, but a fond living memory of what the classic Welcome Area looked like back in the day.")

It's a telehub! I've heard about those, but they were before my time. Clicking on the telehub does nothing. There's some kind of card game, with an "out of order" sign. Four avatars standing around, unresponsive. It's too dark; this place needs some lights. There's a sign for The Portal Park, but it's dark. Oh, there we go;  if I get really close, it lights up.

There's a big sign: Ground Transportation. This leads to a road loop. Most gamers would expect some kind of transport to show up quickly. But nothing. No instructions. No rezzer. Not even a rez zone. Maybe a Yava Pod stops here every hour or so.

This is lame.

Someone went to a lot of trouble to build these nice-looking info hubs. But they are useless.

All this gives a terrible first impression.

 

 

From what I learned greeting new people in another grid is that it isn't so much the surroundings as the non responsive avatars standing around. It points out the lack of socialization when often that was the whole reason for them to create an account in the first place. We found there was a better retention when new people rezzed into a place where there was active discussions going on but yet a few who would greet the newcomer casually as they came in without being pushy. Offered help if they needed it or join into the convo if they wished. Avoiding IM's unless they appear to be having issues and are non responsive in local. Local is non threatening to new people and often the IM is not readily apparent anyway. Personally I think in Welcome areas other avatars should be automatically shown as Away if they haven't moved or talked inworld for a very short period and sent to their Home if it lasts much longer. At least if there is noone there, a new person understands why no one is talking.

[Rowan Amore]

Perhaps it's all those YouTube videos on how to do this and that and the other that increases people's need to update their avatars ASAP?   When I started, I'm sure there weren't quite as many nor where there as many fashion blogs.  Maybe we, ourselves, have created this upgrade urgency in new users?

I was more than happy to stumble around without a clue for months.  I don't recall one single person making a comment about my noob avatar.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Rowan Amore

[animats]

1 hour ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

SL is too complex to hope that computer-illiterate people, or people with a short attention span will become long term ”SL residents”.

Not really. Read "The Gamer's Brain", by Dr. Celia Hodent. Hodent is a psychologist by training. She does user experience design for Epic Games. She developed the user experience for Fortnite.

She has a lot to say about onboarding, usability, and user learning. Section 13.3, "Onboarding Plan" is a good place to start.

An onboarding plan.

Her point is that it's possible to teach people a complex system if the learning process is properly organized. Hints from the book:

• Give users a task to teach them something. Provide some pressure, but not too much, and not time pressure. In Fortnite, users have to learn how to build. So the new user is dumped in a hole, and they have to build ramps to get out. There's a treasure chest visible at the top, as an incentive. In another game, players need to learn to run and jump effectively, so they're made to chase a rabbit that taunts them. But nobody is shooting at them yet. A little pressure,  not too much.
• Don't put two difficult tasks in sequence.
• Then test. Without user testing, you will get it wrong. Testing means bringing people who have not used the product and recording them as they go through the onboarding process. It does not mean sending out surveys.

This is not mysterious. There are people who have it figured out.

[Ceka Cianci]

5 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

From what I learned greeting new people in another grid is that it isn't so much the surroundings as the non responsive avatars standing around. It points out the lack of socialization when often that was the whole reason for them to create an account in the first place. We found there was a better retention when new people rezzed into a place where there was active discussions going on but yet a few who would greet the newcomer casually as they came in without being pushy. Offered help if they needed it or join into the convo if they wished. Avoiding IM's unless they appear to be having issues and are non responsive in local. Local is non threatening to new people and often the IM is not readily apparent anyway. Personally I think in Welcome areas other avatars should be automatically shown as Away if they haven't moved or talked inworld for a very short period and sent to their Home if it lasts much longer. At least if there is noone there, a new person understands why no one is talking.

Ya, that was one big thing I noticed.. Anyone I talked to or the reason I could over hear things so much was, everyone was in general chat..

Myself , I love general chat when it's not being abused with gestures until my eyes bleed.

The more people that hear what you are talking about and it not being something really private.. The more the questions and curiosities started to flow.

There is definitely a good list of things that need worked on in the new user experience.. There is no way it's one big thing and there is no one spot that is leaving point..

I really think, if someone took the trouble to register and download, they will at least try and make it through the start area.. Just about every game out there has that start area..What happens next I feel is more important than anything.

[Ceka Cianci]

42 minutes ago, Arielle Popstar said:

I spent the first 6 or 7 years in S/L without buying Lindens and really didn't see myself as suffering for a lack of during that time. There was plenty of modifiable clothing to be had for free, furniture I made myself and there are now still free or very cheap (200L$) complete mesh avatars with outfits that i had more compliments on and offers for trysts then my 15000L$ mesh body and head with fashionista outfit. I currently rent a place that charges 1L$ per day for a furnished skybox with adult furniture and that is aside from a slew of invites to share someone's home for free....no strings attached....so they said  There are good deals to be had out there and the fun was had in the searching them out, not in the finally getting them.

Do this.. hehehe

Go to the MP and type in freebie and see how much free comes up.. hehehe

Do it with gift or free as well if you like and see how much is free compared to , not free..

It kind of reminds me of that comedian, the one that ,well never mind what he did, but he was funny..

He was overdrawn in his bank account and said, I don't have any money, I have less than having no money, I can't even afford to be broke.. LOL

[Henri Beauchamp]

26 minutes ago, animats said:

Not really. Read ”The Gamer's Brain”, by Dr. Celia Hodent. Hodent is a psychologist by training. She does user experience design for Epic Games. She developed the user experience for Fortnite.

Excepted that Fortnite is a game, with rules, a goal, etc. Second Life is not a game (even if you may find games in SL). Her method supposes that the attention span of the player is consistent enough and they are motivated to learn how to play in that game.

Without a minimum of ”computer literacy” (I'm not speaking of ”expertise” here, but just some knowledge about how to find features and learn using them in a software), and curiosity and/or perseverance, a new user cannot get ”hooked” long enough in SL to discover all what this virtual world could offer to them.

As I see it, it is a total waste of time to try and attract everyone to SL: some people will just never get the motivation to learn how to use and explore SL.

[Rolig Loon]

I remember rummaging around at Yadni's and getting all sorts of cool free stuff.  I also remember going back years later, before Yadni's finally vanished (2015?) and thinking, "Wow! Look at all the crap here!"  Newbies today would never accept those things, free or not.  We want higher class junk and there aren't many places you can just rummage for it now.

[EnCore Mayne]

SL isn't for everyone.

[Arielle Popstar]

6 minutes ago, Henri Beauchamp said:

Excepted that Fortnite is a game, with rules, a goal, etc. Second Life is not a game (even if you may find games in SL). Her method supposes that the attention span of the player is consistent enough and they are motivated to learn how to play in that game.

Without a minimum of ”computer literacy” (I'm not speaking of ”expertise” here, but just some knowledge about how to find features and learn using them in a software), and curiosity and/or perseverance, a new user cannot get ”hooked” long enough in SL to discover all what this virtual world could offer to them.

As I see it, it is a total waste of time to try and attract everyone to SL: some people will just never get the motivation to learn how to use and explore SL.

When I bought the game Half Life and started to play it, it forced me to learn how to grab and throw items that I had to know to get far in the game. As much as I chafed at the time and practice required, it was absolutely essential for me to have progressed very far. Because I had played other games I assumed I would be able to pick it up as I went along but in hindsight I realize I was wrong and would have just become frustrated and given the game up in short order, so I can see how the same applies in S/L in that without learning some rudimentaries, which as I said in another post, took me several logins, I would have given it up if I hadn't been quite motivated for other reasons. Learning about window focus, walking, chatting, IM, Groups etc are fairly basic features which at the very least, give a new person enough tools to be able to move and chat to another to at least ask for help.

[Quistess Alpha]

32 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Go to the MP and type in freebie and see how much free comes up.. hehehe

If you take a bit and learn how to use the marketplace tools (a bit of an ask for a new resident perhaps) it's not hard to find all 47967 freebies:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?utf8=✓&search[layout]=gallery&search[category_id]=&search[sort]=sales_rank_asc&search[per_page]=96&search[keywords]=NOT+demo&search[price_low]=0&search[price_high]=0&search[land_impact_low]=&search[land_impact_high]=&search[copy_permission]=0&search[modify_permission]=0&search[transfer_permission]=0&search[limited_quantities]=0&search[is_demo]=0&search[is_demo]=1

I think it took me a few days to learn that the marketplace existed though. Freebie Galaxy and similar "free stores" in world hadme covered for days even if the stuff they have in them is "really old" looking to me now.

ETA: Wow some of those freebies form the MP are actually things I might need for certain outfits >.< shopping spree!

Edited August 18, 2022 by Quistess Alpha

[Arielle Popstar]

5 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

If you take a bit and learn how to use the marketplace tools (a bit of an ask for a new resident perhaps) it's not hard to find all 47967 freebies:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?utf8=✓&search[layout]=gallery&search[category_id]=&search[sort]=sales_rank_asc&search[per_page]=96&search[keywords]=NOT+demo&search[price_low]=0&search[price_high]=0&search[land_impact_low]=&search[land_impact_high]=&search[copy_permission]=0&search[modify_permission]=0&search[transfer_permission]=0&search[limited_quantities]=0&search[is_demo]=0&search[is_demo]=1

I think it took me a few days to learn that the marketplace existed though. Freebie Galaxy and similar "free stores" in world hadme covered for days even if the stuff they have in them is "really old" looking to me now.

/me snags 10 or so freebies off of the first page!

Thx!

[Ceka Cianci]

7 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

If you take a bit and learn how to use the marketplace tools (a bit of an ask for a new resident perhaps) it's not hard to find all 47967 freebies:

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/products/search?utf8=✓&search[layout]=gallery&search[category_id]=&search[sort]=sales_rank_asc&search[per_page]=96&search[keywords]=NOT+demo&search[price_low]=0&search[price_high]=0&search[land_impact_low]=&search[land_impact_high]=&search[copy_permission]=0&search[modify_permission]=0&search[transfer_permission]=0&search[limited_quantities]=0&search[is_demo]=0&search[is_demo]=1

I think it took me a few days to learn that the marketplace existed though. Freebie Galaxy and similar "free stores" in world hadme covered for days even if the stuff they have in them is "really old" looking to me now.

Knowing that would be a big help..

But I'm doing things as if i were new and not as  if I've been around..

The market place was the first thing that I found because, all the links in the store right after the start area were linked to the MP..

I'm looking at is as fresh right out of the start area.

My first search is probably going to be typing in free..

The thing that really bothers me most is. How is it not against the rules, to list something as Free and charge 1 to 10 to 20 or more L's for them?

I understand they can see the price, but it's clogging up the search and games it.

[Quistess Alpha]

1 minute ago, Ceka Cianci said:

The thing that really bothers me most is. How is it not against the rules, to list something as Free and charge 1 to 10 to 20 or more L's for them?

The "Justification" for 1L$ "Dollarbies" I've seem most is that for whatever reason 0L$ items can't be gifted, which is a real pain.

[Ceka Cianci]

1 minute ago, Quistess Alpha said:

The "Justification" for 1L$ "Dollarbies" I've seem most is that for whatever reason 0L$ items can't be gifted, which is a real pain.

Ya, I guess I understand that, but they really should have to label them as dollarbies and not Free..

In my opinion.. LL really needs to try and clean the MP up and get it working properly. There is so much that needs to be done with that place..

[Gabriele Graves]

6 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

The "Justification" for 1L$ "Dollarbies" I've seem most is that for whatever reason 0L$ items can't be gifted, which is a real pain.

It isn't hard to share a MP link with someone you want to give it to though.  Added advantage is that they get to decide whether they want it too without having to delete the item it if they don't.

I think the whole gift thing is just an excuse to charge L$1 personally.  I suspect that even if L$0 items were giftable, they would still do it.
 

3 minutes ago, Ceka Cianci said:

Ya, I guess I understand that, but they really should have to label them as dollarbies and not Free..

Yes, this ^^^

[Quistess Alpha]

1 minute ago, Gabriele Graves said:

I think the whole gift thing is just an excuse to charge L$1 personally.

1 L$ is worth less than .4 of a penny. I can't believe anyone is selling in enough volume to justify that economically. low priced items are bait for higher priced items form the same store/creator, or "Just for fun/ Pro bono" things.

if a 1L$ item pushes more product into people's pockets than a 0L$ item, creators are incentivised to make it 1L$. Sure it's not that hard to share a link, but there's something warm and fuzzy about gift giving that feels nicer, and it can be a few fewer clicks if you're not already in IMs with someone in-world.

This is all rather off-topic though.

[Rowan Amore]

14 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said:

It isn't hard to share a MP link with someone you want to give it to though.  Added advantage is that they get to decide whether they want it too without having to delete the item it if they don't.

I think the whole gift thing is just an excuse to charge L$1 personally.  I suspect that even if L$0 items were giftable, they would still do it.
 

Yes, this ^^^

I always thought it was sort of a deterrent to people sending 575638 free thing s to annoy someone.  

[Quistess Alpha]

1 minute ago, Rowan Amore said:

I always thought it was sort of a deterrent to people sending 575638 free thing s to annoy someone.  

still gotta do it in batches of 10 though. (cart size limit)

[Gabriele Graves]

Just now, Quistess Alpha said:

1 L$ is worth less than .4 of a penny. I can't believe anyone is selling in enough volume to justify that economically. low priced items are bait for higher priced items form the same store/creator, or "Just for fun/ Pro bono" things.

if a 1L$ item pushes more product into people's pockets than a 0L$ item, creators are incentivised to make it 1L$.

I don't disagree with any of that.  If they want to charge a L$1 then do that and be honest about the reasons.  They don't need to make excuses especially as you've already said, they aren't going to get rich.  I'll bet it really has to do with keeping people who don't have Lindens from getting "freebies" directly.  Anyway the evidence is there, if they wanted people to get it free then they would set it to free.  Gifting isn't really so important that it would trump a L$0 price.
 

3 minutes ago, Quistess Alpha said:

This is all rather off-topic though.

Yes it is.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Quistess Alpha said:

still gotta do it in batches of 10 though. (cart size limit)

I could send a lot.of things in groups of 10 in an hour overnight while my nemesis is sleeping.  😈

[Gabriele Graves]

5 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

I always thought it was sort of a deterrent to people sending 575638 free thing s to annoy someone.  

My mind is reeling at the thought of how mind numbing that would be to do.