How can Linden Lab position the NUX body for success?

[Blaise Glendevon]

So, with the announcement at SL19B that Linden Lab is getting into the mesh body business, I was thinking about the way to make this a successful launch that people will want and use. We've seen lots of mesh heads and bodies launch since the first versions in 2014-2015. From my observation, the thing that makes the biggest impact on how many people adopt a body isn't simplicity, resource efficiency, or ease of use. It's having partnerships with existing brands so that your body or head has good looking goodies to add-on the second you unpack it. SLINK was a known quantity with hands and feet - skinmakers were already making appliers for those when the full body dropped. Maitreya had a successful partnership with skinmaker Glam Affair when they launched, as did LeLutka when they launched as well. Legacy launched with deformers that would allow Maitreya clothes to be worn on their mesh body, but also had exclusives set up with top fashion brands. Ebody, the new hottest mesh body, is outstripping its competition in the Kalhene Erika body by that same tactic - there was a whole shopping event of clothes set up for the body when it launched while Kalhene mostly gets retextured full-perm gear in a very specific style that isn't to everyone's taste. 

Contrariwise, some very good bodies like the Signature Alice (I'm surprised it hasn't made more inroad, since Signature is one of the go-to brands for men's mesh bodies) and Tonic have mostly fallen by the wayside for lack of engagement with shops. It's a which-came-first dilemma. Are shops not rigging for these bodies because nobody has them? Or does no one have them because there are limited skin and clothing options? 

So, what brands and products should LL engage with before the roll-out of the New User Experience? Not just making the dev kit accessible, but full partnerships - possibly paid. 

For me, the obvious two are Blueberry and Velour. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Blaise Glendevon

[skepwith]

Why?

They aren't competing with those bodies. The point of NUX, from what I understand, is to give new users a starting body that doesn't look like it has a horrible disease. If it's competing with anything, it's competing with the old system avatar, in which case, congratulations NUX, I declare you the winner, sight unseen.

What makes people think LL is trying to compete with Maitreya or whoever? That's just bizarre.

[Cinos Field]

Yep, as you said, LL basically has to financially incentivize some big creators into making clothes for their bodies. This is, for example, what TMP almost certainly did with Legacy even if they'll never admit it. The bodies didn't start out popular but long before I saw a single person wearing one, Blueberry and such were already rigging for them. Probably also creators of various unmentionable attachments of adult appeal. There have been lots and lots of excellent bodies that didn't succeed because people don't really care for quality, only availability of clothes and bits. So it has to be kickstarted.

Which creators? I can't really say. It might be enough to go for ones that make modifiable clothes, like say Neve/Coldlogic, or Kaithleen's... or just stick to the tried and true Blueberry

[Marianne Little]

I can not imagine LL offering financial support for creators that will make stuff for NUX.

Where is the money in it for LL? They do not sell NUX.

Other mesh bodies and heads is sold, creating income for LL and Tilia. We customers buy §L, go shopping, the creators withdraw dollars from SL, LL and Tilia takes their fees.

It is a good system for LL. I can not imagine them want NUX to replace any of the big ones. Just get enough stuff at the Free Dove for it, so people get used to dress up their avatar. And then want more things than NUX can offer, so they upgrade to one of the big brands.

[Blaise Glendevon]

4 minutes ago, skepwith said:

Why?

They aren't competing with those bodies. The point of NUX, from what I understand, is to give new users a starting body that doesn't look like it has a horrible disease. If it's competing with anything, it's competing with the old system avatar, in which case, congratulations NUX, I declare you the winner, sight unseen.

What makes people think LL is trying to compete with Maitreya or whoever? That's just bizarre.

The worst-case scenario is that LL has sunk the development hours (and salary) into creating a reasonably featured mesh body and no one even touches it because they launch right into the for-profit mesh body world. Sure, most people won't stick with the NUX body - male or female. That's just because avatars are so personal, and not every body can appeal to every body type. But for it to just sit in the Library with Boxy and Musician Girl would be a waste of resources entirely.

[missyrideout]

4 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

Where is the money in it for LL? They do not sell NUX.

Retention of new users. A quality avatar that lets people jump confidently into the social aspects of SL without spending $100 and digesting a textbook worth of arcane technical jargon has massive value. If they stay, they will spend.

[Rowan Amore]

If brands were smart, THEY would contact LL and offer to provide clothing for the new avatars in a specific area.  LL shouldn't have to pay anyone anything.  It's in creators best interest to make new residents aware of their brand.  A new resident using the NUX avatar wears items from those creators and when they decide to upgrade, they seek out those creators for their new body/head.

Win/win in my opinion.  

[missyrideout]

I have this crazy fantasy of LL revamping the Library with things people will actually want to use. I know it runs to counter to the meritocratic,  pull-yourself-up-by-your-digital-bootstraps techno-capitalist ideals of SL, but even if your product is not featured in such a library, ALL stand to benefit from better retention of new users.

[Alwin Alcott]

57 minutes ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

So, with the announcement at SL19B that Linden Lab is getting into the mesh body business, I was thinking about the way to make this a successful launch that people will want and use. We've seen lots of mesh heads and bodies launch since the first versions in 2014-2015. From my observation, the thing that makes the biggest impact on how many people adopt a body isn't simplicity, resource efficiency, or ease of use. It's having partnerships with existing brands so that your body or head has good looking goodies to add-on the second you unpack it. SLINK was a known quantity with hands and feet - skinmakers were already making appliers for those when the full body dropped. Maitreya had a successful partnership with skinmaker Glam Affair when they launched, as did LeLutka when they launched as well. Legacy launched with deformers that would allow Maitreya clothes to be worn on their mesh body, but also had exclusives set up with top fashion brands. Ebody, the new hottest mesh body, is outstripping its competition in the Kalhene Erika body by that same tactic - there was a whole shopping event of clothes set up for the body when it launched while Kalhene mostly gets retextured full-perm gear in a very specific style that isn't to everyone's taste. 

Contrariwise, some very good bodies like the Signature Alice (I'm surprised it hasn't made more inroad, since Signature is one of the go-to brands for men's mesh bodies) and Tonic have mostly fallen by the wayside for lack of engagement with shops. It's a which-came-first dilemma. Are shops not rigging for these bodies because nobody has them? Or does no one have them because there are limited skin and clothing options? 

So, what brands and products should LL engage with before the roll-out of the New User Experience? Not just making the dev kit accessible, but full partnerships - possibly paid. 

For me, the obvious two are Blueberry and Velour. 

isn't this connected to this subject?

 

 

[Blaise Glendevon]

4 minutes ago, Alwin Alcott said:

isn't this connected to this subject?

 

 

I don't think so. It looks like LL wanted to hire out creators to do Linden Lab branded projects - which is entirely different from partnerships with existing brands. 

[Coffee Pancake]

LL aren't trying to win at mesh bodies, they just need to have something that makes the new user experience meaningful .. I mean, I don't know if anyone has rolled an alt in a while but the starting area is barren, over in 5 minutes and "dog bag lady" is dumped onto the destination guide, JOB DONE. They can't actually bring anyone up to speed on anything relevant.

Just so long as we have blender dev kits, creators will just start making stuff for it, hell, I will make stuff for it.

 

[Jennifer Boyle]

1 hour ago, skepwith said:

Why?

They aren't competing with those bodies. The point of NUX, from what I understand, is to give new users a starting body that doesn't look like it has a horrible disease. If it's competing with anything, it's competing with the old system avatar, in which case, congratulations NUX, I declare you the winner, sight unseen.

What makes people think LL is trying to compete with Maitreya or whoever? That's just bizarre.

Exactly.

1 hour ago, missyrideout said:

Retention of new users. A quality avatar that lets people jump confidently into the social aspects of SL without spending $100 and digesting a textbook worth of arcane technical jargon has massive value. If they stay, they will spend.

Exactly.

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

If brands were smart, THEY would contact LL and offer to provide clothing for the new avatars in a specific area.  LL shouldn't have to pay anyone anything.  It's in creators best interest to make new residents aware of their brand.  A new resident using the NUX avatar wears items from those creators and when they decide to upgrade, they seek out those creators for their new body/head.

Win/win in my opinion.  

Exactly.

26 minutes ago, Coffee Pancake said:

LL aren't trying to win at mesh bodies, they just need to have something that makes the new user experience meaningful .. I mean, I don't know if anyone has rolled an alt in a while but the starting area is barren, over in 5 minutes and "dog bag lady" is dumped onto the destination guide, JOB DONE. They can't actually bring anyone up to speed on anything relevant.

Just so long as we have blender dev kits, creators will just start making stuff for it, hell, I will make stuff for it.

 

Exactly.

[skepwith]

4 hours ago, Blaise Glendevon said:

The worst-case scenario is that LL has sunk the development hours (and salary) into creating a reasonably featured mesh body and no one even touches it because they launch right into the for-profit mesh body world. Sure, most people won't stick with the NUX body - male or female. That's just because avatars are so personal, and not every body can appeal to every body type. But for it to just sit in the Library with Boxy and Musician Girl would be a waste of resources entirely.

I have to respectfully disagree with you here. The worst case scenario is that LL sinks all those resources into this and new user retention is unchanged. If users spend on average 5 minutes in the NUX body but those 5 minutes were fun enough to cause them to buy lindens to upgrade their bodies instead of quitting in disgust because nobody wants to spend time with Radio Greg then mission accomplished and then some.

[Marianne Little]

15 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

If brands were smart, THEY would contact LL and offer to provide clothing for the new avatars in a specific area.  LL shouldn't have to pay anyone anything.  It's in creators best interest to make new residents aware of their brand.  A new resident using the NUX avatar wears items from those creators and when they decide to upgrade, they seek out those creators for their new body/head.

Win/win in my opinion.  

This isn't a bad idea. But creators already rig for half a dozen brands. I believe they worry that those who use NUX is only looking for freebies. So their work with rigging and including clothes for another freebie body would be for nothing.

Does Blueberry sell for a freebie like Lucybody? No, and the creator of Lucybody has made it so similar to Maitreya that Lucybody can use most of Maitreya clothes.

If Lucybody could not use Maitreya clothes, would Blueberry sell that size? I doubt that.

But since NUX is going to be offered for all, ready to use, Blueberry and other big creators might rig for it. Maybe. I am not sure what I would do in their place. The content creation kit really need to be super easy to get. No sending in a request for it and waiting, or other stupid ideas that would kill the body's popularity among creators. Kalhene Erica is the best example of a body creator that did not understand the need for stuff to buy when the body was brand new. People lost interest when it was the same skimpy dresses in different colors. Even if they like the body.

But the really big creators does not need free advertising now. They have made their brands a household name in SL.

[Theresa Tennyson]

57 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

This isn't a bad idea. But creators already rig for half a dozen brands. I believe they worry that those who use NUX is only looking for freebies. So their work with rigging and including clothes for another freebie body would be for nothing.

Does Blueberry sell for a freebie like Lucybody? No, and the creator of Lucybody has made it so similar to Maitreya that Lucybody can use most of Maitreya clothes.

If Lucybody could not use Maitreya clothes, would Blueberry sell that size? I doubt that.

But since NUX is going to be offered for all, ready to use, Blueberry and other big creators might rig for it. Maybe. I am not sure what I would do in their place. The content creation kit really need to be super easy to get. No sending in a request for it and waiting, or other stupid ideas that would kill the body's popularity among creators. Kalhene Erica is the best example of a body creator that did not understand the need for stuff to buy when the body was brand new. People lost interest when it was the same skimpy dresses in different colors. Even if they like the body.

But the really big creators does not need free advertising now. They have made their brands a household name in SL.

Slink used to be a household name in SL...

There are two very important things that a merchant looks for in a customer:

1) They can use what the seller is selling.

2) They don't have what the seller is selling already.

That's especially important in Second Life, where things don't naturally wear out. If you look at current promoted clothing/avatar items, there's a big trend to support the newest bodies and drop older ones. This is because there are only so many variations on hoochiewear mass-market clothing you can make, and someone with a newer body will be more likely to not have a usable version of items already.

Right now for makers of clothing, the newest users aren't a great market because the can't use things for bodies that they don't own yet. With the LL bodies, if they're done reasonably well there will be a constant stream of new people in the market for something they can use and that they don't already have. Even if items are only sold for a few cents (i.e. the typical weekend sale prices), the work it takes to make the original item can be paid off comparatively quickly.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Theresa Tennyson

[Marianne Little]

1 hour ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

Slink used to be a household name in SL...

There are two very important things that a merchant looks for in a customer:

1) They can use what the seller is selling.

2) They don't have what the seller is selling already.

That's especially important in Second Life, where things don't naturally wear out. If you look at current promoted clothing/avatar items, there's a big trend to support the newest bodies and drop older ones. This is because there are only so many variations on hoochiewear mass-market clothing you can make, and someone with a newer body will be more likely to not have a usable version of items already.

Right now for makers of clothing, the newest users aren't a great market because the can't use things for bodies that they don't own yet. With the LL bodies, if they're done reasonably well there will be a constant stream of new people in the market for something they can use and that they don't already have. Even if items are only sold for a few cents (i.e. the typical weekend sale prices), the work it takes to make the original item can be paid off comparatively quickly.

Yes. In hindsight it is all so clear to me. Slink made mistakes. The first was to be greedy and not update their bodies as all-in-one when Maitreya did. Not even for those who owned 3 pair of feet and hands.

The second was to release their Redux totally without alpha cuts and only an asymmetrical harness. People got no time getting used to alpha layers. And had to take off and add feet because they didn't have 5 feet in one.

So people felt it was unfair (I know I did) and struggling to find alpha layers that fit the clothes that they already had.

Maitreya has made some good decisions. Updating the body for free and as a hybrid with optional onion layers and alpha cuts. They have had Black Friday 50% sales for at least 2 years.

And then the new Slink body is a total flop, I do not even remember the name. Did Slink even offer creator packs for this one without creators having to apply and wait?

Belleza let their bodies go to rot without updates for years.

So what is next for Maitreya? They are still number one in popularity, but slowly see their lead chipping away. Maybe they will release a curvy body, or a male body. Maitreya Lara has been the number one body for us in so many years. Legacy threatened its popularity, but high complexity, a clumsy HUD and high price stopped it from rising more. New curvy bodies and special bodies for those who want even bigger breasts are increasing in popularity. You are so right, people want new things all the time.

It is also vanity and pride. Will a body we have to pay for, be seen as more luxurious? "My body are better than 'your freebie body'. Because I have money."

A new NUX body is also not fashionable now, if it has the shape of Maitreya and other "thinner" bodies. Another body that's like them.

People like Kupra. Because it is new. Before, it was itty bitty boobs for a while. People bought them because they were new. Maitreya should release a very curvy body and a male body as fast as they can, before NUX is released.

[Theresa Tennyson]

46 minutes ago, Marianne Little said:

A new NUX body is also not fashionable now, if it has the shape of Maitreya and other "thinner" bodies. Another body that's like them.

Then people won't buy the NUX body.

.

.

.

Wait a minute...

[Rowan Amore]

3 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

This isn't a bad idea. But creators already rig for half a dozen brands. I believe they worry that those who use NUX is only looking for freebies. So their work with rigging and including clothes for another freebie body would be for nothing.

Does Blueberry sell for a freebie like Lucybody? No, and the creator of Lucybody has made it so similar to Maitreya that Lucybody can use most of Maitreya clothes.

If Lucybody could not use Maitreya clothes, would Blueberry sell that size? I doubt that.

But since NUX is going to be offered for all, ready to use, Blueberry and other big creators might rig for it. Maybe. I am not sure what I would do in their place. The content creation kit really need to be super easy to get. No sending in a request for it and waiting, or other stupid ideas that would kill the body's popularity among creators. Kalhene Erica is the best example of a body creator that did not understand the need for stuff to buy when the body was brand new. People lost interest when it was the same skimpy dresses in different colors. Even if they like the body.

But the really big creators does not need free advertising now. They have made their brands a household name in SL.

I'm not suggesting that these stores do NUX sizes on a regular basis.  I'm suggesting major brands make 1 outfit that is available FOR FREE to new users.   Included would be a notecard telling a little about the store and which mesh bodies they DO rig for.   We all know most users will eventually want to upgrade but until then, they'll have some really nice outfits AND the name of stores to shop at when they do upgrade.

I don't think rigging for the body on a regular basis will be all that profitable but getting your name out there to new residents by offering free outfits is a good idea.  

[skepwith]

2 hours ago, Marianne Little said:

It is also vanity and pride. Will a body we have to pay for, be seen as more luxurious? "My body are better than 'your freebie body'. Because I have money."

A new NUX body is also not fashionable now, if it has the shape of Maitreya and other "thinner" bodies. Another body that's like them.

Good. NUX shouldn't be fashionable. LL wants people to buy lindens. LL wants creators to sell things. And for that to keep happening, LL needs a better New User eXperience. NUX will be the first avatar that people see when they start Second Life, because it will be their own, that they are choosing. It will be their first impression of SL, instead of dog purse lady and 70s guy with a radio. They won't be comparing it to Kupras and Laras. If anything, they'll be comparing it to Zuckerbots.

If you know what a "Kupra" is, if "Maitreya" means something to you outside of Buddhism, NUX isn't for you and nobody's going to care whether you like it or not.

Edit to add maybe a more helpful explanation: If anything, NUX is a replacement for someone like me dragging a pixelated noob to Helping Haven Gateway to show them how to use BoM with a free eBody Classic. Which I really do enjoy doing, but it probably doesn't have a very widespread effect.

Edited July 13, 2022 by skepwith

[Persephone Emerald]

If mesh body creators with older models are smart, they'll offer those older body shapes to LL to use for their NUX bodies.

TMP Male & Female, Slink Original & Male, eBody Slim & Curvy, Belleza Venus, Ruth and Roth - nobody buys these bodies, so why not give them away for free. Oh wait, Legacy and eBody do already, and guess what? Their free bodies bring in customers who later buy their newer bodies. (Ruth & Roth are basically free too, but newbies don't know about them when they first come into SL.) Mesh body makers could also offer to give these bodies to Linden Lab, just as Adam and Eve gave them whole system avatars that are now in everyone's inventories. People might not buy much from Adam and Eve now, but I bet having donated system avatars to Linden Lab, propped up their sales for years.

OT - I think Belleza needs to give away Venus for free and make a muscular male body while Jake is still popular. 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Love Zhaoying]

I think if the NUX controls are simple, and intuitive, then they will seem attractive to people vs. the complexity of the Mesh body HUDs.

..just my opinion..

[Marianne Little]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I think if the NUX controls are simple, and intuitive, then they will seem attractive to people vs. the complexity of the Mesh body HUDs.

..just my opinion..

 😃 I don't think bodies HUD are so difficult. But I am used to them. After I find the tab in Belleza to turn the body from 'blend' and turn on BoM, it is quite easy. I have Maitreya on 3, Hourglass on one, Slink male on one, Signature Gianni on one and Belleza Jake on two.

I think ladies will want different feet heights. At least flat and high, and change the feet in the HUD. And different nail lengths.

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

I'm not suggesting that these stores do NUX sizes on a regular basis.  I'm suggesting major brands make 1 outfit that is available FOR FREE to new users.   Included would be a notecard telling a little about the store and which mesh bodies they DO rig for.   We all know most users will eventually want to upgrade but until then, they'll have some really nice outfits AND the name of stores to shop at when they do upgrade.

I don't think rigging for the body on a regular basis will be all that profitable but getting your name out there to new residents by offering free outfits is a good idea.  

Great idea. Now I understand. 😘

[Jennifer Boyle]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

I don't think rigging for the body on a regular basis will be all that profitable but getting your name out there to new residents by offering free outfits is a good idea.  

It sure is. If I made clothing, I would beg LL to let me do it.. One of the biggest problems clothing creators have is making themselves known to potential customers. What a great opportunity for them.

[Rowan Amore]

2 minutes ago, Jennifer Boyle said:

It sure is. If I made clothing, I would beg LL to let me do it.. One of the biggest problems clothing creators have is making themselves known to potential customers. What a great opportunity for them.

Exactly!  Every creator can participate with some general guidelines.  If you meet the guidelines, your outfit is accepted.  This can ensure everyone has a fair chance AND it's really an awesome opportunity for LL to retain users.

[Modulated]

The best way to get started is to get them out of the door and into our grubby hands . Let's have em'!