To AR Is Human . . .

[Gopi Passiflora]

I don't AR. I guess a lot of things don't bother me enough (even though I am quite sensitive.)

[Persephone Emerald]

I ARed this monstrosity overhanging Linden void water. 

[Love Zhaoying]

Reminder, the topic is about reporting Forum posts and threads.

[Persephone Emerald]

12 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Reminder, the topic is about reporting Forum posts and threads.

It's actually not an AR in the forum though. It's just a Report in the forum. It's only an Abuse Report inworld.

[Silent Mistwalker]

7 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

It's actually not an AR in the forum though. It's just a Report in the forum. It's only an Abuse Report inworld.

It's still a Report even without the word Abuse in front of it. They both serve the same purpose.

[Love Zhaoying]

7 hours ago, Persephone Emerald said:

It's actually not an AR in the forum though. It's just a Report in the forum. It's only an Abuse Report inworld.

Yep, that has been pointed out several times. The OP never updated the title.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 hour ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Yep, that has been pointed out several times. The OP never updated the title.

Sure, fine. Go ahead, blame the OP.

I actually didn't object to the discussion branching out to treat also ARs in-world. And there really isn't an appropriate term other than the very generic "report" for the forum.

So there.

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Sure, fine. Go ahead, blame the OP.

I actually didn't object to the discussion branching out to treat also ARs in-world. And there really isn't an appropriate term other than the very generic "report" for the forum.

So there.

Easy Peasy! (Lemon squeezy.)

How will we know if the thread has gone "off topic" and we need to...."AR it"?

Yep, I agree on "Report", was just trying to "bring people back" a few times. My bad! (If it was about AR's in general..then we could basically discuss anything that Peeves us, makes us want to AR. So there.)

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Love Zhaoying

[Scylla Rhiadra]

19 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Easy Peasy! (Lemon squeezy.)

How will we know if the thread has gone "off topic" and we need to...."AR it"?

Yep, I agree on "Report", was just trying to "bring people back" a few times. My bad! (If it was about AR's in general..then we could basically discuss anything that Peeves us, makes us want to AR. So there.)

 

No, as I said, I don't mind it wandering a bit if it's along the same general road -- how we take our "responsibility" as members of the community for policing content.

And with that in mind, here's an interesting thing. I've discovered that there appears to be no way to "report" content for a violation of the ToS or CS on the Marketplace. You can flag it as misleading, or wrongly rated, but that's pretty much it.

So, I'm not sure how one would go about reporting, for instance, a Nazi flag on the MP.

 

[Luna Bliss]

21 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

actually

So you believe to AR is human?  I believe it's the product of a patriarchal society which seeks to punish and not an actual deep facet of human nature.       But your title is indeed funny...

Of course some AR to simply keep the peace and not punish, but I suspect quite a few are done to 'even scores', or at the very least done because someone dislikes the one they AR, while others they feel more cozy with get a free pass or more understanding when breaking a rule.

That's why I only AR for extremely severe infractions. Like the disturbed guy who makes it in from time to time to flood the forum with obscenities.

 

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

So, I'm not sure how one would go about reporting, for instance, a Nazi flag on the MP.

That would be something like "DO NOT WANT!11!1!!"

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

So you believe to AR is human?  I believe it's the product of a patriarchal society which seeks to punish and not an actual deep facet of human nature.       But your title is indeed funny...

I sense a great disturbance in the Force..

I mean, I sense a pattern in your posts..

[Madelaine McMasters]

6 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Sure, fine. Go ahead, blame the OP.

I actually didn't object to the discussion branching out to treat also ARs in-world. And there really isn't an appropriate term other than the very generic "report" for the forum.

So there.

I view the "AR" in your thread title as an action, not a term. Whether you call it an AR, a Report, or a Tattle, we are referring to an action that directs attention of the "system" to some thing, with the expectation some action will be taken to remove or stop the thing.

Upon first seeing the thread title, I immediately thought of the recent rise of vigilante abortion laws, in which the government offers incentives for individuals to report each other. Any reporting system affords the potential for abuses, like swatting. It's not hard to imagine situations in which a social system's reporting incentives ultimately undermine the system.

I also find your play on "To err is human" particularly apt. It is quite human to tattle on people you don't like with the intention of bringing retribution. The first word many of us learn to speak is often the first word we use to report...

"Mmmooooooommmmmmmmmm!!!!!"

Understanding both the reported behavior and the motives for reporting it can be... complicated.

Finally, since I am a Princess of Derail, I'll note that the complete aphorism you co-opted for your thread title includes...

"..., to forgive divine'.

That's apt for another contentious thread, where there seems to be some commingling of the ideas of deceit, hypocrisy, and degrees of self awareness.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

So you believe to AR is human?  I believe it's the product of a patriarchal society which seeks to punish and not an actual deep facet of human nature.       But your title is indeed funny...

Of course some AR to simply keep the peace and not punish, but I suspect quite a few are done to 'even scores', or at the very least done because someone dislikes the one they AR, while others they feel more cozy with get a free pass or more understanding when breaking a rule.

That's why I only AR for extremely severe infractions. Like the disturbed guy who makes it in from time to time to flood the forum with obscenities.

 

Well, I have very mixed feelings about it, Luna, as I say elsewhere in this now admittedly quite long thread. To cut to the chase, though, I like the idea of "community policing" -- of a community establishing collectively and by consensus its own sense of what is appropriate, rather than a top-down model -- but I also see the absolute peril of abuse that comes with that.

Like you, I only report really obvious infractions -- spam, mostly, and occasionally really hateful stuff (outright racist insults personally directed at someone, for instance). Where I run across something that is "hateful," but not so "personal", or that represents a reasonably common, if abhorrent perspective, I prefer to let it stand for a great many reasons. I'm generally anti-censorship, for instance, and I think people should be allowed to condemn themselves out of their own mouths. If someone is a racist, I don't think it's a bad idea to let that remain . . . public information.

It's complicated, though, and I have another point along these lines I want to make shortly.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

Just now, Madelaine McMasters said:

Upon first seeing the thread title, I immediately thought of the recent rise of vigilante abortion laws, in which the government offers incentives for individuals to report each other. Any reporting system affords the potential for abuses, like swatting. It's not hard to imagine situations in which a social system's reporting incentives ultimately undermine the system.

There. I was about to make this point (AND CREDIT YOU FOR IT, I PROMISE!).

It's an excellent one.

Incentives aside, history offers a wide range of cultures in which what I've euphemistically called "community policing" has led to the worst kinds of oppression. It was barely necessary, for instance, to have laws against "s*domy" on the books for much of the 20th century, as the social stigma and the informal cultural penalties associated with being gay were so enormously effective and nasty.

So, does the "AR" -- here, or in-world -- resemble better a community working together, where a heavy-handed "police force" is unnecessary because consensus rules . . . or is it like snitching on your neighbours?

[Luna Bliss]

7 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

to forgive divine

well I was actually gonna mention that but I worried some might have had quite enough of that discussion from me lately   

[Love Zhaoying]

7 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

"Mmmooooooommmmmmmmmm!!!!!"

Just remembered..in my (Hindu) tradition, that would indeed be the right call: "MAAAAA!!!!"

8 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

ny reporting system affords the potential for abuses, like swatting.

I don't know if you saw I posted about this before, but I actually saw one of my neighbors get SWATted once.  It was scary. (The SWAT officers seemed more inclined to make sure someone was actually home, than to beat down the door. The reason I think it was a "swatting" is, the "dad" of the house drove up in a short while asking questions.)

[Luna Bliss]

16 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I sense a great disturbance in the Force..

I mean, I sense a pattern in your posts..

* looks around furtively....with minor pangs of trepidation

[Persephone Emerald]

20 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

No, as I said, I don't mind it wandering a bit if it's along the same general road -- how we take our "responsibility" as members of the community for policing content.

And with that in mind, here's an interesting thing. I've discovered that there appears to be no way to "report" content for a violation of the ToS or CS on the Marketplace. You can flag it as misleading, or wrongly rated, but that's pretty much it.

So, I'm not sure how one would go about reporting, for instance, a Nazi flag on the MP.

 

I would use "Disallowed Listing Practices" if someone were listing something that is not allowed.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

well I was actually gonna mention that but I worried some might have had quite enough of that discussion from me lately   

I don't think "forgiveness" often figures into my own responses, because I see this as a personal thing.

If someone insults me personally, then, yes, depending upon circumstances, I might choose to "forgive" them.

But I am not going to "forgive" someone by proxy for being racist, say, or homophobic or transphobic. In part, because I'm white and cishet, so I'm not qualified to usurp the function of "forgiveness" from people who are the actual targets. And in part because the issue isn't the mere fact of transgression: it is instead the toxicity of the views expressed, that need to be addressed and countered.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Persephone Emerald said:

I would use "Disallowed Listing Practices" if someone were listing something that is not allowed.

This is probably a good workaround! Thanks, Persephone!

[Silent Mistwalker]

42 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

No, as I said, I don't mind it wandering a bit if it's along the same general road -- how we take our "responsibility" as members of the community for policing content.

And with that in mind, here's an interesting thing. I've discovered that there appears to be no way to "report" content for a violation of the ToS or CS on the Marketplace. You can flag it as misleading, or wrongly rated, but that's pretty much it.

So, I'm not sure how one would go about reporting, for instance, a Nazi flag on the MP.

 

I would use Disallowed Listing Practices. If nazi symbolism has been banned for SL that is how I would report it.

Edit: Perse beat me to it. Curses! Foiled again!

Edited July 21, 2022 by Silent Mistwalker

[Love Zhaoying]

Since the "not-see" flag was brought up:

How about a "vigilante" group that scours the Marketplace, looking for "bad stuff" to report?

Is that ok?

How does "forgiveness" figure into that scenario?

[Scylla Rhiadra]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Since the "not-see" flag was brought up:

How about a "vigilante" group that scours the Marketplace, looking for "bad stuff" to report?

Is that ok?

How does "forgiveness" figure into that scenario?

Vigilante groups are never a good thing -- on the MP, or anywhere else.

This is where we cross the line that Maddy has marked out, from community-based policing to something that becomes oppressive.

[Rolig Loon]

A panelist on a NPR radio discussion this morning floated the proposition that the rise of social media has been largely to blame for increased polarization in society, especially in the Western World, simply because it is too democratic.  The initial promise of facebook and its lookalikes was that open discussion among people would give the "common man" (and presumably woman) a voice in shaping public policy. As the panelist noted, it has instead given those with the loudest voices at the extremes of any issue an outsized influence, thus effectively silencing the vast majority of people in the middle.  Public policy is now being shaped by loudmouths, and more specifically, by jerks who do not represent most of us.  Instead of furthering democracy, social media have fractured it. 

This is not exactly a new proposition.  It strikes me that it has its parallel in SL and here in the forums. Those who complain do not necessarily represent the vast number of us who disagree silently, or who either don't notice or don't care about the issue.  Discussions of weighty issues here are inherently undemocratic because they potentially emphasize the voices of loudmouths.  That is much less true in world, where complaining is usually a one-on-one affair, but here in the forums it can lead to polarized posturing and a degree of self-censoring among the large number of quiet people in the middle. I think it also means that a small number of people filing abuse reports can have an outsized influence in shaping the way that moderators and the Governance team develop policy.