The Second Life Mission Discussion

[Luna Bliss]

Linden Lab Executive Chairman Oberwolf Linden said one of things he admires about virtual worlds, SL in particular, is how incredibly equalizing they are across so many features of human beings.
He said unless you choose to disclose it we don't know your gender, your race, your religion...and that there's a beauty to that.
And coming back to commerce, he says that 80% of the top earners in SL are women.

"When everyone is equal, those that have the best offering, work the hardest, work the smartest, whatever it is...can provide for themselves in ways that in the physical world it's just not possible. There just is not the same opportunity in the physical world for people to increase their particularly monetary social economic status as easy as it is to do in the virtual world".

He is enthusiastic about this vision of SL, extended from Philip Linden's vision, as a participant in building equality around the globe.
He says it is a valiant purpose and mission.

Personally, when someone says they have equality as their mission they have my vote! Does everyone think this is an important vision for a virtual world company? How does SL compare to other virtual world companies regarding a mission? And practically, how well does SL achieve this mission? How might we, as residents (or LL as a company), create more equality if we find it lacking in SL, either monetarily or socially?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94R1-OeQmJg&t=1s
Comments on equality begin at almost the 1:30.00 mark 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Luna Bliss
awkward phrasings

[Love Zhaoying]

What is it, companies and organizations have "Mission", "Vision", and "Core Values"? 

I wonder if we will get to hear all 3?

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

What is it, companies and organizations have "Mission", "Vision", and "Core Values"? 

I wonder if we will get to hear all 3?

How would those be different?

[Bree Giffen]

For now, I agree with this vision unless it affects me negatively and then I don't agree with it. 

If women are the top earners and we need income equality does that mean LL will encourage more male entrepreneurs? How would they do that? The market for men's avatars and clothing accessories is considerably smaller. I'm glad I don't work for LL because that's certainly a pickle.

[Rowan Amore]

1 minute ago, Bree Giffen said:

For now, I agree with this vision unless it affects me negatively and then I don't agree with it. 

If women are the top earners and we need income equality does that mean LL will encourage more male entrepreneurs? How would they do that? The market for men's avatars and clothing accessories is considerably smaller. I'm glad I don't work for LL because that's certainly a pickle.

Men can create whatever content they choose.  They certainly aren't restricted to men's fashion/accessories.  In fact, I'd hazard a guess that quite a few women are behind a lot of male centric content.  

[Luna Bliss]

6 minutes ago, Bree Giffen said:

For now, I agree with this vision unless it affects me negatively and then I don't agree with it. 

If women are the top earners and we need income equality does that mean LL will encourage more male entrepreneurs? How would they do that? The market for men's avatars and clothing accessories is considerably smaller. I'm glad I don't work for LL because that's certainly a pickle.

Well, I don't think we'd need to help men in SL so they can earn more, because they already earn more in RL (and for doing the same jobs women do).  So his point, I think, is that SL equalizes this because in SL nobody knows if you're a man or a woman unless you say so, and this fact disallows the prejudice in RL which causes women to earn less.

I'm all for helping men become more equal socially though, as society in general looks down on them for being weak when expressing vulnerability. Not sure how we could achieve this in SL, but I'm sure the smart people on this forum will have some good ideas!      Perhaps it already happens in major ways, as so many of those presenting as women are actually men, getting in touch with their feminine side I presume.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Paul Hexem]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, I don't think we'd need to help men in SL so they can earn more, because they already earn more in RL

Isn't that like saying equality is only good when you like it? That makes it seem like you actually want to cherry pick the things about equality you like.

Why shouldn't we be pushing more men's content in SL, just like we should be pushing more opportunities for women to earn in RL?

6 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

Men can create whatever content they choose.  They certainly aren't restricted to men's fashion/accessories.  In fact, I'd hazard a guess that quite a few women are behind a lot of male centric content.  

I suspect women are behind most of the fashion content in SL, full stop. Which explains why they're the top earners.

[Love Zhaoying]

19 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

21 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

What is it, companies and organizations have "Mission", "Vision", and "Core Values"? 

I wonder if we will get to hear all 3?

How would those be different?

Usually they are closely related, however they can reveal more / different details about a company.

[Luna Bliss]

5 minutes ago, Paul Hexem said:

12 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

Well, I don't think we'd need to help men in SL so they can earn more, because they already earn more in RL

Isn't that like saying equality is only good when you like it? That makes it seem like you actually want to cherry pick the things about equality you like.

Why shouldn't we be pushing more men's content in SL, just like we should be pushing more opportunities for women to earn in RL?

My comments had nothing to do with having more men's content. I agree we need that.

And I'm not saying equality is only good when I like it, nor am I cherry-picking anything.

The mission, the vision stated, is not for SL only -- they want the RL world to become more equal, and see SL as being able to help with that. As it stands in the world, men earn more for the same jobs women do because there is prejudice against women in RL.  SL eliminates this prejudice because nobody knows what your gender is, thereby bringing greater equality to the world overall.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Luna Bliss

[Ayashe Ninetails]

22 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

He said unless you choose to disclose it we don't know your gender, your race, your religion...and that there's a beauty to that.
And coming back to commerce, he says that 80% of the top earners in SL are women.

Women...avatars? Or the people controlling the avatars? They've got real stats on that?

As to equality in virtual life, that's tricky. I'm actually hesitant to run around as an actual representation of myself in most online communities and have a tendency not to do that. And, many women do tend to play male characters across numerous MMOs, for example. 

If any of that makes sense. My coffee isn't cutting it today. 😩

[Madelaine McMasters]

7 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

So his point, I think, is that SL equalizes this because in SL nobody knows if you're a man or a woman unless you say so, and this fact disallows the prejudice in RL which causes women to earn less.

If it's true that nobody knows if you're a man or a woman unless you say so, Oberwolf could make no claim about gender representation amongst SL's top earners, other than to say that 80% of them say they're female.. I suspect LL gets some grip on demographics via PIOF. This would be the best evidence I've seen that the preponderance of female creators in SL is real.

[Luna Bliss]

1 minute ago, Ayashe Ninetails said:

They've got real stats on that?

To cash out you have to upload a driver's license that states name and gender identification, and with photo.

[Luna Bliss]

2 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

If it's true that nobody knows if you're a man or a woman unless you say so, Oberwolf could make no claim about gender representation amongst SL's top earners, other than to say that 80% of them say they're female.. I suspect LL gets some grip on demographics via PIOF. This would be the best evidence I've seen that the preponderance of female creators in SL is real.

I imagine the 'nobody' referenced there refers to the people we earn money from here who would not know our gender.

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

To cash out you have to upload a driver's license that states name and gender identification, and with photo.

Maddy phrased it way better than I'm capable of at the moment. 😂

[Love Zhaoying]

4 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

If it's true that nobody knows if you're a man or a woman unless you say so, Oberwolf could make no claim about gender representation amongst SL's top earners, other than to say that 80% of them say they're female.. I suspect LL gets some grip on demographics via PIOF. This would be the best evidence I've seen that the preponderance of female creators in SL is real.

It's probably something like that vs. "Eww, boys wouldn't design all those dresses and dolls!"

[Ayashe Ninetails]

Just now, Luna Bliss said:

I imagine the 'nobody' referenced there refers to the people we earn money from here who would not know our gender.

That seems to imply that because nobody knows who is behind the sale, that's why women are doing well here. That's not really equality then, is it?

Please tell me I'm just overtired and reading too deeply into everything. 

Lol me right now:

 

[Bree Giffen]

I like that LL has a mission. The company I work for created a mission statement a few years ago and it does seem to help focus people on what's important because they can always go back to that mission statement and take inspiration from it. Without a mission statement most companies simply have 'Let's do better than last year'. 

[Madelaine McMasters]

2 minutes ago, Luna Bliss said:

I imagine the 'nobody' referenced there refers to the people we earn money from here who would not know our gender.

Agreed.

Within weeks of arriving in SL, I was struck by the proportion of objects I interrogated (via "Edit") that were created by females. It was easily the majority. That was (and still is) in stark (and refreshing) contrast to my RL experience in the medical electronics industry, where nearly all of the engineers/designers were male. It took much longer than those initial weeks for me to encounter the "most SL women are men" meme here. Even if I allow for the plausibility of that claim arising from sexuality, it seems unsatisfactory as an explanation for the grand showing of females as creators here.

It's not just engineering that's male dominated...
https://www.businessoffashion.com/articles/fashion-week/less-female-fashion-designers-more-male-designers/

This makes Oberwolf's claim that 80% of SL's top earners are women even more interesting.

[Orwar]

   What do '80% of the top earners' entail anyway? 80% of the L$ transactions are to female avatars? Are we looking at transaction amounts or transaction sum totals? 80% of the L$ cash-outs are to accounts owned by women? Out of the 5 richest SL residents, 4 are women? Out of the top 3, 2 are women and 1 they're pretty sure is a G.I.R.L? Is it sales of virtual goods, or land sales, or 'everything'? Are their stats somehow influenced by the vast amounts of L$ men spend on women, and how large a portion of the whole thing is that anyway, and is that 'progressive' or just 'detestable' these days? So many question marks.

   Personally, I don't see how it affects me either way. It's not as if I actually care if a person I'm buying stuff from is a man or a woman, or what skin colour they have, or whether they believe in one supernatural deity or another. Should I be? Wouldn't that make me some sort of -ist? And it's not as if it would matter for me, if I were to try 'breaking into the market' in SL, what gender or such any of my potential competitors or collaborators are. Right? Will the quality of life for my mother or sister somehow improve if I shop from creator XX rather than creator XY? Will the prospects for potential, future daughters of mine somehow be better because of who earns what in the virtual market of Second Life?

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

"When everyone is equal, those that have the best offering, work the hardest, work the smartest, whatever it is...can provide for themselves in ways that in the physical world it's just not possible. There just is not the same opportunity in the physical world for people to increase their particularly monetary social economic status as easy as it is to do in the virtual world".

There is very real unearned privilege in Second Life. It comes from living in a part of the world that has easy access to upper-end computer hardware, fast and reliable private Internet service and major Western credit cards. Coming from an English-speaking culture is also a big advantage.

I'm not saying there's an easy way of changing this, but not acknowledging it while talking about the "equality" of Second Life is displaying one's privilege.

[Love Zhaoying]

At the risk of seeming even thicker than I usually do, are we certain it isn't something simplistic such as:

- More women are generally creative than men

- Women are more likely to have the required creation tools, due to being more creative

- Most fashion / avatar stuff is for women, so women are more likely to "want" to create those things

- Those same things are what sell the most in Second Life, thereby generating the most income

etc.?

[junique Tigerfish]

I like to believe that thru our efforts in sl we could make a change in the real one.I honestly believe in equality for all.We all have a place in the world and everyone should have the right to live and be.I always hope that we don't forget the past mistakes and they are never repeated.Too bad this is not the way things always go.😒

[Paul Hexem]

10 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

At the risk of seeming even thicker than I usually do, are we certain it isn't something simplistic such as:

- More women are generally creative than men

- Women are more likely to have the required creation tools, due to being more creative

- Most fashion / avatar stuff is for women, so women are more likely to "want" to create those things

- Those same things are what sell the most in Second Life, thereby generating the most income

etc.?

Actually, if the stats for STEM careers in RL are any indication, women are probably less likely to have the creation tools in this medium. I'd say the rest of your post is probably spot on.

 

1 hour ago, Luna Bliss said:

My comments had nothing to do with having more men's content. I agree we need that.

And I'm not saying equality is only good when I like it, nor am I cherry-picking anything.

The mission, the vision stated, is not for SL only -- they want the RL world to become more equal, and see SL as being able to help with that. As it stands in the world, men earn more for the same jobs women do because there is prejudice against women in RL.  SL eliminates this prejudice because nobody knows what your gender is, thereby bringing greater equality to the world overall.

You have to watch out not to turn it into a competition when you talk about equality. "Men don't need to earn in SL because they earn in RL." isn't equality. It'd be like saying "Women don't need abuse protection in SL, they have the majority of abuse shelters in RL where abused men aren't allowed."

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

While Luna makes a good start on this topic, some clarification might help.

It's not the small store any resident might open that makes the most money; I'd venture to say that's rare. The big money-makers team up with others where prejudice can play a factor within the group, where preferences come into play when sorting out who gets what benefit. So if nobody really knows the gender of another then perhaps males are not chosen over females to such a degree. Being hired by a company to create a project is another big money-maker where many prefer men in positions of authority or heads of companies and will hire them over a woman-owned company; a woman can earn an advantage here by not revealing her gender, or even by assuming a male avatar. 

One day, hopefully, women will be seen as competent when in a position of authority. And the good old boy network where people choose those of 'their kind' will be lessened as more women are part of that network too: their preponderance in governments and other positions of authority is much lower at this point in time, giving them a severe disadvantage.

Until then, SL can be a good equalizer. Perhaps not so in a few other virtual worlds where there is pressure to reveal real life identity.

[Kiera Clutterbuck]

21 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

At the risk of seeming even thicker than I usually do, are we certain it isn't something simplistic such as:

- More women are generally creative than men

- Women are more likely to have the required creation tools, due to being more creative

- Most fashion / avatar stuff is for women, so women are more likely to "want" to create those things

- Those same things are what sell the most in Second Life, thereby generating the most income

etc.?

I'd venture to say we need to include all these factors too in our assessment.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Kiera Clutterbuck