Sell me on SL as compared to up-and-coming offerings

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 hour ago, Sid Nagy said:

Sounds great, but what the **** is DX11 exactly?

DX11 = MS DirectX 11

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX

[Chris Corvinus]

On 1/29/2022 at 11:29 AM, ethnya said:

I'm working for a web dev firm that's been in business a couple decades that is getting inquiries from current clients about building in the metaverse.  I tried SL some years ago but never really got into it seriously. 

Anyway, not to diss SL.  But what I'm asking you, dear reader, is to help make the case for SL as compared to say, Decentraland, or Sandbox, as a place for a real-world entertainment venue to step into as a cross-promotion.  Given that there will be some dev costs (not sure, but somewhere in the $30k-70k range is my guess) for this project, picking the right platform the first time is important.

So far my observations and concerns go like this:

Pro:

• When comparing it to other offerings, SL is unquestionably the most full-featured and customizable platform among competitors. 
• The parcels are not outrageously expensive, and new parcels can be created.

Con:

• It seems pretty laggy.  I don't have the newest system, but a decent middle of the road with a 1060, and i get non-stop chop even when reducing a lot of the settings.  
• I remember when I messed around with SL some years ago there was...let's say a strong tilt to certain proclivities of an adult nature...and while I know there have been some attempts to carefully segregate that, I'm wondering in practice how successful that has been.  

So while obviously I am approaching a biased audience here, hit me with your best shot.  Why SL versus others? 

The biggest issue SL has is lag. And it always will. Its just the way its built and there is no fixing it unless they tear it down and rebuild it. That won't happen either unless they create a way to import everyones inventory over but...that would also negate creating SL 2.0. 

[Krystina Ferraris]

This must be the n-th thread since Metaverse appeared on the scene, asking about the differences between the various platforms. Why asking the Forum? If you are in a dev company I would imagine you are allowed to do your field research, talk to the people involved in running the various platforms and then make up your mind?

In my field, if you want to make a case to get funding for some research or a project, they expect us to do the legwork. That means actually working in that specific space, talking to experts in the field and gain enough insight to be able to make a proper judgment on viability vs cost, use cases, etc

Edited January 30, 2022 by Krystina Ferraris

[Silent Mistwalker]

21 minutes ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

talking to experts in the field

Who are the experts in a field that doesn't really exist yet?

[Sid Nagy]

48 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

DX11 = MS DirectX 11

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectX

I altered my text a bit to keep my argument valid.
It makes your answer funny.  Sorry
But I know you're always in for a good laugh so...

Edited January 30, 2022 by Sid Nagy

[Krystina Ferraris]

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

Who are the experts in a field that doesn't really exist yet?

Sorry my typo, I meant related fields. For example if I am researching a particular parasite, I would talk to pathologist who worked in deaths by that particular parasite. I would talk to researchers who published work about parasites affecting the same organs or those working in diseases caused by the specific parasite or related species.

sorry for the typo and not making myself clear.

[Silent Mistwalker]

4 minutes ago, Sid Nagy said:

I altered my text a bit to keep my argument valid.
It makes your answer funny.  Sorry
But I know you're always in for a good laugh so...

LOL

I dunno what to tell you then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Silent Mistwalker]

1 minute ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

Sorry my typo, I meant related fields. For example if I am researching a particular parasite, I would talk to pathologist who worked in deaths by that particular parasite. I would talk to researchers who published work about parasites affecting the same organs or those working in diseases caused by the specific parasite or related species.

sorry for the typo and not making myself clear.

ok What would related fields be then? Other than programming/coding.

[Krystina Ferraris]

2 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said:

ok What would related fields be then? Other than programming/coding.

I don’t know they seem to be asking the forum to explain the differences between the platforms so they can be a case for a RL project. I’m sure people here are well able to answer but by OP’s own admission, they tried SL years ago and never came back. So they don’t know anything about it other than hearsay. My first port of call, If I were the OP, would be to try it out myself and then reach out to maybe some Linden Lab folks for specific questions? I don’t know maybe I misunderstood the post or didn’t get the gist, it’s been a long day 🤷‍♀️

[Scylla Rhiadra]

4 minutes ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

Sorry my typo, I meant related fields. For example if I am researching a particular parasite, I would talk to pathologist who worked in deaths by that particular parasite. I would talk to researchers who published work about parasites affecting the same organs or those working in diseases caused by the specific parasite or related species.

sorry for the typo and not making myself clear.

Actually, there are experts in this field. The metaverse isn't a new concept by any means.

But you're definitely right too about related fields: there's long been a fairly active academic community involved in the evolution of the web, as well as virtual worlds (there's an entire academic journal devoted to the latter). Academics also approach this through the subject of posthumanism (and some through transhumanism, which is a bit different). And the subject of 3D visual technology (going back to early stereoscopes and even Viewmasters) is also well-established: one of the academics who introduced me to SL in 2008 specialized in that area.

[Krystina Ferraris]

Ok thinking about it, in a way I can now understand what the OP is after, probably.

In my uneducated opinion the biggest difference is curated vs non curated content (sl). I have no intention of ever using Meta but if it’s anything like it’s parent company I’d bet my last penny it’s heavily curated and censorship will be rife.

If you are looking for a safe space to host virtual meetings with Lego avatars where no random P or hooker can walk in then Meta is the place, I’d think.

on the other hand, regions and land can be bought in SL with appropriate rating, and security will do the rest to ensure a safe space too.

Just my thoughts.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

2 minutes ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

Ok thinking about it, in a way I can now understand what the OP is after, probably.

In my uneducated opinion the biggest difference is curated vs non curated content (sl). I have no intention of ever using Meta but if it’s anything like it’s parent company I’d bet my last penny it’s heavily curated and censorship will be rife.

If you are looking for a safe space to host virtual meetings with Lego avatars where no random P or hooker can walk in then Meta is the place, I’d think.

on the other hand, regions and land can be bought in SL with appropriate rating, and security will do the rest to ensure a safe space too.

Just my thoughts.

I don't want to speak for the OP -- I have no idea what their level of familiarity or understanding may be.

But I think a great many companies are intrigued by the possibilities of the metaverse, for a variety of different reasons. And a great many others are just responding to the current hype. No one wants to be "left behind" -- the corporate world is strewn with the corpses of companies who didn't get online quickly enough, understand the importance of streaming, etc., etc.

High Fidelity was mostly focused, so far as I have ever been able to figure out, upon the idea of virtual spaces for meetings, conferences, education, and so forth. So, yes, that's one particular use for it, and one that has been underlined by the shift towards working from home effected by the pandemic.

Meta's marketing has touched upon this use, but I think its main view is towards the metaverse as a kind of 3D social media platform, with games and so forth. The largely unspoken assumption (in public, anyway) is also that it will generate oodles of income from data harvesting and marketing.

I think that most companies and organizations looking at the metaverse now are, to be honest, pretty unclear on the whole concept, and don't actually yet have a very good idea of how it might be useful to them. These are all first tentative toes-in-the-water, to get a sense of what might be possible. They are grappling with the fact that no one yet knows what this will actually look like.

[Krystina Ferraris]

@Scylla Rhiadra Scylla you’ve given a mine of info between this and the previous posts.. I really hope the OP is reading. If I were them I would start with contacting you! 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

5 minutes ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

@Scylla Rhiadra Scylla you’ve given a mine of info between this and the previous posts.. I really hope the OP is reading. If I were them I would start with contacting you! 

Aw, thanks Krystina!

I am emphatically not an expert, just an interested amateur. And I come at this mostly from a particularly humanist perspective -- what I know about internet architecture would fit inside a fortune cookie!

But it's a fascinating subject!

[Krystina Ferraris]

21 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

Aw, thanks Krystina!

I am emphatically not an expert, just an interested amateur. And I come at this mostly from a particularly humanist perspective -- what I know about internet architecture would fit inside a fortune cookie!

But it's a fascinating subject!

I would imagine that the humanist perspective plays a big part in choosing one virtual world rather than another! Performance, security, building capabilities etc certainly are paramount but I personally would not invest in a platform without understanding all the ramifications. 

[Scylla Rhiadra]

13 minutes ago, Krystina Ferraris said:

I would imagine that the humanist perspective plays a big part in choosing one virtual world rather than another! Performance, security, building capabilities etc certainly are paramount but I personally would not invest in a platform without understanding all the ramifications. 

I think it's an important part of the puzzle generally. Someone needs to be thinking about this sort of thing, not merely from a "Can it be done?" perspective, but also from a "SHOULD it be done? And what will the impacts be if it is?" point-of-view.

There's an entire interdisciplinary field called the Digital Humanities that looks at this sort of thing, and other related issues. Also, as I mentioned, Posthumanist studies. And library and information studies, which is quasi-humanities, has focused a lot on it as well.

[Galaxy Littlepaws]

7 minutes ago, Scylla Rhiadra said:

I think it's an important part of the puzzle generally. Someone needs to be thinking about this sort of thing, not merely from a "Can it be done?" perspective, but also from a "SHOULD it be done? And what will the impacts be if it is?" point-of-view.

There's an entire interdisciplinary field called the Digital Humanities that looks at this sort of thing, and other related issues. Also, as I mentioned, Posthumanist studies. And library and information studies, which is quasi-humanities, has focused a lot on it as well.

I actually want to study Digital Humanities now that I know it's a field. It sounds very interesting, thank you.

[Scylla Rhiadra]

17 minutes ago, Galaxy Littlepaws said:

I actually want to study Digital Humanities now that I know it's a field. It sounds very interesting, thank you.

I should also have mentioned Media Studies. Duh.

Digital Humanities is fascinating, and far reaching -- it differs from Media Studies in that its focus is not upon analyzing digital media from a humanistic perspective, but rather in how digital technologies can be enabled as tools for the humanist. A lot (although not all of it) is about building digital tools, so most digital humanists have a fairly extensive background in code as well.

Some of the earliest academic / educational innovators in SL were digital humanists, actually. Even more of them were library and information studies people.

[animats]

5 hours ago, ChinRey said:

As for the not-so-basic tutorial and social areas, for something like this you can just bypass them and make your own streamlined substitute.

When it comes to the starter avatar issue, make your own selection of good looking ones.

Right. If you're using SL for an event or a B2B target market, you have to help people through the onboarding process.

[Persephone Emerald]

On 1/29/2022 at 1:06 PM, ChinRey said:

For something like this you want a free standing region well away from everything else in SL so it should be easy enough to isolate it from unwated activities.

I agree with all the posts ChinRey has made above. 

Second Life and Open Sim are similar, but Second Life has a ready-made user base that's much bigger, has better audio, and has a huge selection of user-made content. Lag will be a problem unless you hire people who know how to build resource-efficient structures, landscaping and scripts. A single full region costs about $300/ month, and would likely be your minimum initial investment, along with whatever it costs to hire people who know how to build resource-efficient structures, do nice landscaping, scripting, & etc. 

You absolutely must have a private island in order to control your maturity level, security and the quality of your user-experience. You can keep out flying genitalia and naked avatars if you take charge of controlling who or what kind of content comes into your region. You can limit the complexity of the avatars to reduce lag. You can offer low-lag avatars to your customers, such as some of the Second Life starter avatars or ones of your own design. Either set up one section of your region for a simple on-boarding tutorial or work with an existing on-boarding region, such as the Firestorm one. You might even want to suggest your customers log on with the Firestorm viewer or one of the other third party viewers. Don't use the default Second Life on-boarding areas, because they're filled with people who harass new users. 

What kind of RL entertainment are you selling? If it's a streaming service or music related, it might do well with the SL user-base. If it's for a brick and mortar establishment, it probably won't sell. Our user-base is probably a combination of middle-aged and older folks who have been in SL for a while with newer, younger people who've come here from IMVU or other social platforms. Virtual fashion is a big industry in SL, but that doesn't mean that SL users want to spend much money on their RL fashion. Can you offer a virtual experience that accurately represents your company's RL product?  It's not impossible to advertise to SL users, but it's not easy either. There is virtually no tracking of user activity, so you can't get much useful data from us. If you have people join a group and send advertising through that, it's easy for people to close such a group or opt out of it if they get annoyed by advertising. You might be able to place ads on the SL website, but very few people actually come here to see them.

Edited January 30, 2022 by Persephone Emerald

[Maryanne Solo]

Two things.
1, Diversity of avatars = stunning variables.
Some avatars are simply breathtakingly beautiful or handsome, others as plain as the nose on ones face.
It's the users choice. Either is fantastic. This is JUST the human realm itself, not even all the other endless types of avies.

2, Connectedness with ones avie. 
After 11 years? I would be truly lost without my Aveline Echraide, (inworld display name since they became available).
This name has possible ancestral links and RL connections going back hundreds, if not one thousand years. (mists of time sort of stuff),
but history as is officially documented, also in lore and mythologies.
Once a prolific creator, now just a plain old avie, I spend the majority of my time alone just chatting.
One can provide immense value to individuals whom have experienced RL difficulties and hardships - money can't buy this as it comes from the heart.
The rest of my time is spent dancing with friends & others. The dances are mostly summer themed and a visual feast but generally non nude.
Occasional clubbing to meet new peeps but only if I'm feeling adventurous.
Rapid fire - double entendre laden chat is still something I find very very funny indeed.
(ludicrous comments intended as comedic can sometimes be misinterpreted which is unfortunate but nevertheless....)
SL is pure, simple relaxation and contemplation if you want it to be - are the other worlds?
End of story.

[Innula Zenovka]

On 1/29/2022 at 4:29 PM, ethnya said:

But what I'm asking you, dear reader, is to help make the case for SL as compared to say, Decentraland, or Sandbox, as a place for a real-world entertainment venue to step into as a cross-promotion.  Given that there will be some dev costs (not sure, but somewhere in the $30k-70k range is my guess) for this project, picking the right platform the first time is important.

If I were in your position, I'd be talking to LL direct -- probably Patch Linden -- about my clients' plans and what the Lab can offer.  

[HarrisonMcKenzie]

Disclaimer: I know nothing about business, investing, or advertising.

In my opinion, your clients should run in the other direction. SL went through over a decade ago what these virtual worlds are going through now: a speculator market that everyone is trying to tap into but nobody knows why or how. Every single one is going to have this problem because no one is going to want to visit the virtual Sony HQ or take a degree program via a visual chat room. It already didn't work because companies already found no value in promoting in SL.

What I could say is that it's a good place to cut your teeth in something. I know at least one person who became a real life DJ after doing events in SL. The cost of entry is extremely low, the infrastructure is essentially there, you have a larger and more established userbase, and the platform isn't likely to disappear in 3 months when everyone pulls funding again. But you really can't expect to make any money in SL. I've heard that Sansar might be a bit better as an online music venue, but that may have been biased info. I couldn't tell you about any of these other ones, but VR chat is probably the next most well established. I'm also unsure if any virtual entertainment could effectively translate to real world promotion.

Just my 2 cents. Play it for fun, not for profit.